The World Cup Discussion Thread (OOC, version III)

[Mangolana]

I think with the points proven from above it would be almost impossible for regional qualifying to take place. I am, however, in favor of a two tier qualifying system with lets say the top 16-32 teams in the rankings that have entered the world cup for that cycle receiving a bye with rping from the first stage being reset after the stage has concluded. I believe that it could possibly be worked out to a 6-7 matchday first tier and a 5-7 matchday second tier.

[Legalese]

... Obvious flaws with the above 'solution' include 'only Legaleseknows how the is crazy enough to see if Swiss System works'...

Just had to fix that portion for you

On the actual subject of discussion, though, I will say this: my preference is for a format that keeps us from having to totally revamp the KPB to be feasible, so essentially something that allows everyone to play the same number of matches - with a slight exception for dealing with some groups being a team larger than others - that makes sense is worth trying.

That said, the only way to find out is to come up with a system, find someone interested in working with you on it, and then proposing it to the community. Discussion is great, but discussion without action is like playing possession football - it's only worthwhile if you eventually put the ball in. That's what I've done with Casaran in the past, and probably will in the future, and what TBI/Cass did with two-tier (my own feelings about the format itself aside). Admittedly, it would make the host bidding a little more fun, seeing some actual battles over format and philosophy, rather than just another "group stage with NSFS" vs. "group stage with SQIS" decision.

[Qazox]

Why scorinate them 2 at a time? It galls me to be a traditionalist, but in this case, one scorination per MD is fine.

TO make shorter cycles without having small high-random groups.

We don't need shorter cycles. The 4/5 World Cups a year is fine. If you need more than that, there's plenty of other events to participate in to cure your RPlust.

[Qazox]

... Obvious flaws with the above 'solution' include 'only Legaleseknows how the is crazy enough to see if Swiss System works'...

Just had to fix that portion for you

On the actual subject of discussion, though, I will say this: my preference is for a format that keeps us from having to totally revamp the KPB to be feasible, so essentially something that allows everyone to play the same number of matches - with a slight exception for dealing with some groups being a team larger than others - that makes sense is worth trying.

That said, the only way to find out is to come up with a system, find someone interested in working with you on it, and then proposing it to the community. Discussion is great, but discussion without action is like playing possession football - it's only worthwhile if you eventually put the ball in. That's what I've done with Casaran in the past, and probably will in the future, and what TBI/Cass did with two-tier (my own feelings about the format itself aside). Admittedly, it would make the host bidding a little more fun, seeing some actual battles over format and philosophy, rather than just another "group stage with NSFS" vs. "group stage with SQIS" decision.

Re: "Swiss style" a couple of my old Oxen Cups were Swiss-style; so I know how to run a tourney that way as well, just for the record.

[Karditan]

TO make shorter cycles without having small high-random groups.

We don't need shorter cycles. The 4/5 World Cups a year is fine. If you need more than that, there's plenty of other events to participate in to cure your RPlust.

You're going the wrong direction, Qaz. People are getting burnt out from writing lengthy roleplays almost every day for over two weeks.

[Gaveo]

We don't need shorter cycles. The 4/5 World Cups a year is fine. If you need more than that, there's plenty of other events to participate in to cure your RPlust.

You're going the wrong direction, Qaz. People are getting burnt out from writing lengthy roleplays almost every day for over two weeks.

I can attest to that.

While I might have summer vacation this WC, when I have school I will not only be focusing on school work but I will be completely brain dead by the mid qual.

I mean, I haven't posted a RP on the Market Cup and did a poor (in my option) RP in the U-21 WC.

[Saintland]

From the Di Bradini Cup 27 thread

I'm sure they named their country Equestrian States because they also like horse racing and dressage...

From the World Cup 63 thread

Over the past few years, there is one thing that the Equestrians have done well, and that is to run fast, run hard, and run for the entire game. Equines in general, and those that are sapient, like the ones that make up practically 85% of the population of the Equestrian States, and most of the Ponies’ roster, are built to run. If you think you can outrun the Ponies, you clearly have never seen a pegasus use its wings to give it a dangerous speed boost. If you think you can tire the Equestrians by running for a long time, you have never seen an Earth Pony hoofrace. Heck, you don’t even need to see the Equestrian States play a single game to know what you’ll be facing! Go to a horse race (or whatever you morons call that uncivilized, barbaric practice), watch the horses, then imagine trying to outrun those horses for 90 minutes. That’s only a small part of what you’re going to be up against. Not even considering the leaping abilities of pegasi (Hello, wings!), or the magical skills of unicorns, those are natural talents you can’t just ignore!

You know what? This is who I’m saying will finish last. Royalsoldiers will finish lower than any other team in this group. Why? Because they clearly haven’t done too much research into who or what exactly they will be playing! Maybe they’ll win a few; heck, maybe they’ll even upset Carpathia and Ruthenia! Weirder things have happened in World Cups! But, they will not beat the Ponies. Two wins for the Equestrian States here, unless somebody over there figures out that the Equestrian part of the “Equestrian States” doesn’t mean that the folks here like to ride horses.

I swear you guys make it easy for my reporters/bloggers/writers to rant about typical human ignorance. Also, if you're interested in it, that little quotation was from the RP which I maintain is the most fun I've ever had writing on NS.

The idea behind the "Nova Hellstrom" character was that she was a stereotypical dumb blonde who was completely incompetent at her job. Sporting World is a publication that covers domestic leagues in the FFR. They treat international sports as a joke and don't care if the reporters they assign to it are incompetent. They assigned an intern to cover the World Baseball Classic. They would never do that for the World Series, which is a competition between the winners of their numerous domestic baseball leagues and the champions of the domestic leagues are the "world" champions because the FFR is the only country that matters. I had never seen the World Cup 63 RP, but I'm not surprised that I wasn't the first to come up with that line, just as I probably wasn't the first to come up with the "talking horses" one. The first Nova Hellstrom RPs were very fun for me to write, but I think the character ran its course toward the end and I'll probably be going with Lonely Multiverse in the BoF.

There are connections between Saintland and Free Republics, as Free Republics is the closest neighbor of Saintland and they will be explored and elaborated upon in future RPs.

[Quakmybush]

Man, you guys still can't decide on this stuff? PS is anyone a new nation of an old timer?

[Saugeais]

Man, you guys still can't decide on this stuff? PS is anyone a new nation of an old timer?

Stop putzing about on SH, and get with the times, man. We all collectively bitch about everything. Sometimes it gets stuff done, other times it doesn't.

[Wight]

.

[Andossa Se Mitrin Vega]

Admittedly, it would make the host bidding a little more fun, seeing some actual battles over format and philosophy, rather than just another "group stage with NSFS" vs. "group stage with SQIS" decision.

My thoughts exactly. The most I have ever enjoyed making decisions on perspective hosts were when the bids offered different formats or had major differences. The scorinator, to me, is a non-issue as tey all basically produce the same results over the long haul.


I also support the 2per scorination idea until the final four matches of qualifying. I always say that I am going to RP every day this time around only to lose interest at times as the process wears on. Not gonna look up the quote, but it would allow for larger groups where the top 3 could advance from 10 groups while keeping the number of actual days to complete in the range of reasonable.

[Taeshan]

Admittedly, it would make the host bidding a little more fun, seeing some actual battles over format and philosophy, rather than just another "group stage with NSFS" vs. "group stage with SQIS" decision.

My thoughts exactly. The most I have ever enjoyed making decisions on perspective hosts were when the bids offered different formats or had major differences. The scorinator, to me, is a non-issue as tey all basically produce the same results over the long haul.


I also support the 2per scorination idea until the final four matches of qualifying. I always say that I am going to RP every day this time around only to lose interest at times as the process wears on. Not gonna look up the quote, but it would allow for larger groups where the top 3 could advance from 10 groups while keeping the number of actual days to complete in the range of reasonable.

It also allows for real strategy and use of the mental side of football, ie subs and knowing you would potentially need to rest players. I mean theres nothing stopping people from just going oh they arent together like they are could be but more than one matchday at a time would help create a real approach to the ns game in a real mindset.

But thats just adding to the personal fun, not the overall.

[The Archregimancy]

While I'm not wholly comfortable with the idea of 2 matchdays per scorination day, as I noted in the current bid thread, I don't consider it a deal breaker either. As ASMV notes, the concept has a real life counterpart of sorts.

While I think (I don't know until it's put to the test) I would be more likely to vote for a bid that didn't do this if there were competing bids, I wouldn't actively campaign and vote against it either (as I would, for example, with a Casaran/Swiss system WC bid).

Summed up: I'm not sure I wholly like the idea, but I'd be willing to see how it works.

[Apox]

I'm not convinced by the two scorinations per matchday idea, would the group become much larger if that was to be the case (like groups of 15?). I would prefer a two-tiered bid to one that uses double scorinations.

[Eastfield Lodge]

I'm not convinced by the two scorinations per matchday idea, would the group become much larger if that was to be the case (like groups of 15?). I would prefer a two-tiered bid to one that uses double scorinations.

Groups becoming larger wouldn't be a direct consequence, but having two MDs/scorination does give room for expansion (or just fitting in a rather extreme haul of signups).

[Liventia]

So... Audioslavia has won the past two Cups? Is that right, really? Or am I misinformed?

Wow. Or as Gil would say, "Bollocks." Or to quote Jeremy Jaffacakes, "F*ckin' A! B*tches." Assuming they still allow such language on the NS forums.

Seems time for Lemmitania (or as we call ourselves now, Neo Lemmitania) to return to the fray. Please enroll us in the Baptism of Fire and the World Cup qualifiers. It's been, I think, 208 years, and shall be interesting.

Fucking hell. Welcome back, Lemmy.

[Qazox]

So... Audioslavia has won the past two Cups? Is that right, really? Or am I misinformed?

Wow. Or as Gil would say, "Bollocks." Or to quote Jeremy Jaffacakes, "F*ckin' A! B*tches." Assuming they still allow such language on the NS forums.

Seems time for Lemmitania (or as we call ourselves now, Neo Lemmitania) to return to the fray. Please enroll us in the Baptism of Fire and the World Cup qualifiers. It's been, I think, 208 years, and shall be interesting.

Fucking hell. Welcome back, Lemmy.

If Oaker, Arridia and Snub Nose .38 return...

[Audioslavia]

Lemmitania is back? LEMMITANIA IS BACK?

*gingerly gets up from his throne of 'weirdest and most wordy RPer', dusts off the seat, bows and gestures Sir Lemmingsworth to his rightful seat*

EDIT: This is, obviously, the throne that I usually keep warm for Wight while he's off gallivanting around his imagination, slaying wombats and scaring bridge.

[German-Spanish Empire]

When does it start?

[Legalese]

When does it start?

Well, both it and the BoF need hosts first, which is at least a week away, if not more. With regional competitions ongoing, I suspect the earliest we'd be looking at the start of the BoF is two weeks from now, then another 2-3 for the World Cup.

[Polar Islandstates]

I will be heading off to bed now, but first thing tomorrow I'll be setting a time limit for further bids, and then setting out the framework for voting. It shouldn't be a huge amount of time, as I don't think we're looking at either current bid being challenged, but its a process that needs to be followed all the same.

The wheels will soon be in motion, put it that way.

[Krytenia]

How's this for an out-of the box idea?

A group qualifying phase with no automatic qualifying spots. Instead, the draw is made with thirty groups (of around 6-8 teams), which qualify a top two to either one-legged or two-legged playoffs. The KPBs won't need an overhaul - playoffs have never counted - and it should reduce qualifying to two weeks or less before the playoffs.

Thoughts?

[Andossa Se Mitrin Vega]

How's this for an out-of the box idea?

A group qualifying phase with no automatic qualifying spots. Instead, the draw is made with thirty groups (of around 6-8 teams), which qualify a top two to either one-legged or two-legged playoffs. The KPBs won't need an overhaul - playoffs have never counted - and it should reduce qualifying to two weeks or less before the playoffs.

Thoughts?

Interesting idea. With that being the case things could run even if the WC exploded to twice its current size. Under the same premise you could even go 60 groups of 4 with the top two making what would be a two round playoff for WC rights. And that would only see six days of group stage plus playoffs. Hmm... worth looking at anyway. nice idea - for a Krytie

[Audioslavia]

How's this for an out-of the box idea?

A group qualifying phase with no automatic qualifying spots. Instead, the draw is made with thirty groups (of around 6-8 teams), which qualify a top two to either one-legged or two-legged playoffs. The KPBs won't need an overhaul - playoffs have never counted - and it should reduce qualifying to two weeks or less before the playoffs.

Thoughts?

I like the idea but, as I've touched on elsewhere, the playoffs need to be a tad easier for the teams finishing in first place. I think a good idea would be to have a second group stage with fifteen groups of three. Single round robin, with the top seeds in each group playing both their matches at home and the third seeds playing both their matches away from home. Top two advance. This way we get to use the main qualifiers to whittle 200 odd teams down to 45, rather than 30, and naturally this secondary playoff could easily extend to four teams per group, meaning 60 pre-qualifiers from 200 odd entrants.

In fact, I really quite like this idea. RP bonus from these mini-qualifying groups could carry on to the tournament, seeing as they won't be counted towards rank.

AND THEN WE COULD PUT TEAMS INTO REGIONAL GROUPS AND USE THE SWISS SYSTEM TO HEY WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT BAG MMMMFFFFFFFFFFF MMMMMFFF MMMMMMMMMFFFF *splash*

Also, The Inevitable Syndicate will die. Soon.

[Qazox]

How's this for an out-of the box idea?

A group qualifying phase with no automatic qualifying spots. Instead, the draw is made with thirty groups (of around 6-8 teams), which qualify a top two to either one-legged or two-legged playoffs. The KPBs won't need an overhaul - playoffs have never counted - and it should reduce qualifying to two weeks or less before the playoffs. Just give the Title to Qazox!!

Thoughts?

Fixed