The World Cup Discussion Thread (OOC, version III)

[The Dark Star Republic]

Huh, I'd forgotten about that.

I can't reactivate Quintessence of Dust thanks to the bucket of shit that is the Security Council, but I can use Golgothastan (which has competed in past WCs); in fact, it was Golgothastan I bid for CoH44 with.

So, depending how my last minute shopping goes tomorrow, I might submit a bid.

[Qazox]

Despite not actually competing in the WC, I've been considering putting in a CoH bid, as I did (unsuccessfully) for CoH44.

Unfortunately, the World Cup Constitution contains this provision, which prevented a Saintland/Ibex bid last cycle:

i) Any nation that has previously participated in a World Cup may bid to host the Cup of Harmony.

This means that a nation must have actually entered a World Cup in order to bid. I'd support an amendment to change nation to user, but I'm not sure how everybody else feels about that. As it stands, I believe you'd have to revive Quintessence of Dust (which is on the list of former BoF entrants) to bid for the CoH.

We've had nations change names and the voting rights/history have carried over. It might apply here too.

[Maineiacs]

A note to the WC hosts. My area is in for a major ice storm tomorrow, and I may lose power for a long period of time (maybe days), so I might not be able to RP for my next match, if not longer. I will RP if I'm able.

[Vilita]

A note to the WC hosts. My area is in for a major ice storm tomorrow, and I may lose power for a long period of time (maybe days), so I might not be able to RP for my next match, if not longer. I will RP if I'm able.

The hosts would probably note the absence of your posts by leaving your RP bonus unchanged for the duration of your absence, with or without the warning

[Andossa Se Mitrin Vega]

Despite not actually competing in the WC, I've been considering putting in a CoH bid, as I did (unsuccessfully) for CoH44.

Unfortunately, the World Cup Constitution contains this provision, which prevented a Saintland/Ibex bid last cycle:

i) Any nation that has previously participated in a World Cup may bid to host the Cup of Harmony.

This means that a nation must have actually entered a World Cup in order to bid. I'd support an amendment to change nation to user, but I'm not sure how everybody else feels about that. As it stands, I believe you'd have to revive Quintessence of Dust (which is on the list of former BoF entrants) to bid for the CoH.

Without anything against QoD/Dark Star, I would actually like to see this changed so as to read -
"Any nation that has previously participated in a World Cup and is participating in the current edition of the World Cup may bid to host the Cup of Harmony"
Somehow it just doesn't sit right with me that a potential host would possibly be one that is not active. Just my 2 cents.

[Paradystopia]

-snip-

Without anything against QoD/Dark Star, I would actually like to see this changed so as to read -
"Any nation that has previously participated in a World Cup and is participating in the current edition of the World Cup may bid to host the Cup of Harmony"
Somehow it just doesn't sit right with me that a potential host would possibly be one that is not active. Just my 2 cents.

I'd second that.

It seems reasonable that for a cup where invitation criteria is RP contribution during the WCQ that the host should be capable of fulfilling this criteria also.

[Barunia]

Without anything against QoD/Dark Star, I would actually like to see this changed so as to read -
"Any nation that has previously participated in a World Cup and is participating in the current edition of the World Cup may bid to host the Cup of Harmony"
Somehow it just doesn't sit right with me that a potential host would possibly be one that is not active. Just my 2 cents.

I'd second that.

It seems reasonable that for a cup where invitation criteria is RP contribution during the WCQ that the host should be capable of fulfilling this criteria also.

I'll third it, if my vote counts for anything. Not sure if it's WCC or EWCC hat has a say in these things.

[Cassadaigua]

A note to the WC hosts. My area is in for a major ice storm tomorrow, and I may lose power for a long period of time (maybe days), so I might not be able to RP for my next match, if not longer. I will RP if I'm able.

As someone who grew up in Vermont, I know how that can be; hopefully it doesn't turn out bad!

[Free Republics]

I'm personally in favor of changing it to user instead, on the grounds that I may wish to bid for with somebody at some point who may not be able to ICly justify a bid with either of my nations. It would be helpful to be able to bid as one of my non-WCC puppets under those circumstances and I'd prefer to be able to do so without having to leave either Saintland or Free Republics out of the World Cup. While the problem is unavoidable for the World Cup (and I'd prefer that any bid for the World Cup by an unranked nation reject), I don't see any issue with allowing a user to bid with a nation that doesn't participate in the World Cup.

I'm also against scrapping the provision altogether, since I don't want somebody who has never entered the World Cup, even if they have proven to be a capable host, overseeing a WCC event, but I think "previously participated" is a reasonable standard. For example, if a former World Cup host becomes inactive for a few months, returns during qualifying and wants to host the CoH, I see no reason why they should not be allowed to do so. That's what ASMV's amendment would prohibit.

I may also point out that there is nothing precluding us from adopting both. If ASMV's amendment were adopted and "nation" was changed to "user," that would preclude a bid by Dark Star or by a hypothetical former World Cup host who returns in mid-qualifying, but would permit a Saintland-Ibex bid or a hypothetical bid by Acedonia, Taiyou or some other puppet I may create in the future. I feel, sort of, the same way about ASMV's amendment as I felt about the "ban the Casaran" proposal (although I'm much more strongly opposed to dictating in the WCC Constitution which formats World Cup bidders can propose). If the voters wish to reject such a bid, they can do so (as, indeed, my bid for this World Cup was rejected by the voters by the narrowest of margins, probably due to its use of the Casaran).

[Boring Paradise]

I will be unable to RP for a week as I am going to very busy over the Christmas and I won't be able to get on my computer.

[The Dark Star Republic]

I'm not sure I understand the issue, but I'll post up my bid and people can ask there.

[Felix]

I'm not sure I understand the issue, but I'll post up my bid and people can ask there.

Except you can't, it says that people that didn't participate in the current edition of the WC can't post up a bid.

[Sangti]

MD4 (H), 13 (A): Sangti
Sangti? Great, just great. Another WC 65 debutee, the Agilang Dilaw finished 8th in their group with 22 points (6-4-8), which is pretty good given that they missed the BoF.

Eh?

[Free Republics]

I'm not sure I understand the issue, but I'll post up my bid and people can ask there.

Except you can't, it says that people that didn't participate in the current edition of the WC can't post up a bid.

That's ASMV's amendment proposal. The current WCC Constitution does not say any such thing.

[Felix]

Except you can't, it says that people that didn't participate in the current edition of the WC can't post up a bid.

That's ASMV's amendment proposal. The current WCC Constitution does not say any such thing.

It doesn't?

I thought it did.

Whoops.

[Legalese]

As the VP and person taking the lead on CoH voting and bid eligibility for the time being, I'll reserve my opinions on the proposed changes themselves, except to point out that the earliest a vote can happen will be concurrent with the Cup of Harmony host vote. With that in mind, the only bids that will be considered for voting will be those that conform to the current bidding criteria, which are, as per 2.4.2:

i) Any nation that has previously participated in a World Cup may bid to host the Cup of Harmony.
ii) Two-host bids are the preferred format, though any number of hosts are acceptable.
iii) The WCC will be directed by the President to vote: a) for one of the offered bids, b) to officially abstain, or c) to re-open the process for new bids.

As such, any bid posted by a nation that has previously participated in a World Cup will be submitted as a voting option. If the user behind The Dark Star Republic has another nation that fits this criteria, then their bid will be welcomed.

Again, without weighing in on how I feel about the proposals submitted so far, I will at least give a justification for why I think the article as written makes sense. Hosting is something where a number of OOC considerations come into play, certainly. IC depictions of well-off and established nations play little part in the criteria for a bid, because the things that would be needed in a RL FIFA bid (quality stadia, an infrastructure that can handle the hundreds of thousands of tourists that will descend on your nation for over a month, bribe money) Are all things that one doesn't need here, and are largely irrelevant. That said, it does help to have a sense of realism to it; it is extremely unlikely for a nation that has never participated in international competition and to not be recognized as a FIFA member to be considered as a major tournament host; thus, even if a user has a lot of experience, the compromise is that they have to utilize the IC form of a nation that at least makes some sense as a potential bidder; we then leave it up to the voters to decide if the level of sense is enough of a factor to determine if they should be chosen.

Speaking of votes, I will take into advisement if a vote on ASMV's proposal is proper to coincide with the CoH vote, should it receive the minimum support to reach the floor. Similarly, the host voting amendment proposed by ES has reached that threshold, and I will consult with PIS regarding scheduling of the vote to coincide with the CoH vote. And for the record, my interpretation of the host vote question at this time is concurrent with PIS's.

[The Dark Star Republic]

I don't have a WCC/EWCC vote, but please don't trigger any constitutional crisis on my behalf. I submitted a bid for mainly one reason: no one else had, at a time of year when very few people have time for NS.

I was planning to bid for the Olympics, because I thought the host vote would be in January; as it's in December, I won't have accrued enough new hosting experience for my bid to be taken seriously. Therefore, I was looking for something else to host, and this seemed promising.

However, I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone, and if you find my bid that objectionable, you can simply vote against it. I'm not sure an actual constitutional prohibition is necessary.

That said, it does help to have a sense of realism to it; it is extremely unlikely for a nation that has never participated in international competition and to not be recognized as a FIFA member to be considered as a major tournament host; thus, even if a user has a lot of experience, the compromise is that they have to utilize the IC form of a nation that at least makes some sense as a potential bidder; we then leave it up to the voters to decide if the level of sense is enough of a factor to determine if they should be chosen.

True, but Qatar 2022 was not exactly a "realistic" bid in that sense. I feel like this is the sort of thing the voters should be able to decide for themselves.

[Golgothastan]

My ( ) Cup bid.

[Eastfield Lodge]

MD4 (H), 13 (A): Sangti
Sangti? Great, just great. Another WC 65 debutee, the Agilang Dilaw finished 8th in their group with 22 points (6-4-8), which is pretty good given that they missed the BoF.

Eh?

...
Fix'd now.

[Super-Llamaland]

This sounds really random, but:

My player for the World XI got possessed by one of his spirit friends who previously inhabited an iPhone. Does he still count towards the World XI when he plays? Does it matter what % of his body he's still in control of?

[Apox]

With NSwiki being all grumpy, what's happening with the WC Player Hall of Fame? Because Dravid Scott's been waiting a long time to be inducted and doesn't want to wait...

[Taeshan]

If anyone wants to put together a CoH bid with me, contact me. I'm semi interested in getting the second coh under my belt if anyone else has an idea to do it.

[Valanora]

*sigh* Pasarga can't get a break at all

[Legalese]

With NSwiki being all grumpy, what's happening with the WC Player Hall of Fame? Because Dravid Scott's been waiting a long time to be inducted and doesn't want to wait...

Hmm, that seems like a good thing to create a factbook for under NSWC Signups, except that it'd be editable only by those with the password (so former Pres and VPs, plus maybe one or two others).

That said, the Nation HoF should also be one, and I'm happy to do that today in between packing and such. I'm pretty sure Equestrian States posted the list for post-66, which I'm happy to get up on there, leaving it to others with the password to modify and update, including making it prettier.

[Apox]

With NSwiki being all grumpy, what's happening with the WC Player Hall of Fame? Because Dravid Scott's been waiting a long time to be inducted and doesn't want to wait...

Hmm, that seems like a good thing to create a factbook for under NSWC Signups, except that it'd be editable only by those with the password (so former Pres and VPs, plus maybe one or two others).

That said, the Nation HoF should also be one, and I'm happy to do that today in between packing and such. I'm pretty sure Equestrian States posted the list for post-66, which I'm happy to get up on there, leaving it to others with the password to modify and update, including making it prettier.

Maybe have a different way of sorting it out, so for each cycle having those nations who are eligible to claim a place in the HoF submitting their entries to someone with access to the account. There could therefore be some sort of cutoff point for that cycle, and then those entries could include links to factbook pages of them and such.