The World Cup Discussion Thread (OOC, version II)

[Jeruselem]

I'd agree with that.

[Qazox]

When will the World Cup draw take place?

[Kiryu-shi]

As they say, its why we play the game. Because the result is not pre-determined. If it were, there would be no need to play.

Just to add to this idea - as someone who also had 10+ RPs or so, and came in dead last in a group where only two other people RPed - losing doesn't mean that there is less creativity involved, or less opportunities to have fun. There are still story lines in losing, emotional arcs even when being throttled every match, both in NSSports and RL. And when you do win - victory will taste that much sweeter with the knowledge of what it takes to get there, and seeing the fruits of one's labor over a longer period of time is going to be more satisfying than if it were easy to build a dynastic team here.

Obviously I would have liked to seen more tangible success in the results, but this qualifying campaign will help create a more interesting dynamic in my team moving forward, and will help create a longer and ultimately more fulfilling narrative for my team than if I had instantaneous success. And really, the not knowing aspect of sports - the idea that on any given day, any team could win - is what makes it so compelling, both here and in RL.

[Jeruselem]

RPing ... coming dead last ... oh the memorie of World Cup 11.

[Wight]

Maybe your rank should be zero until you post roster - just as a courtesy to the participants who actually want to RP a tournament... After all, even Brazil have to actually send a team to get a result!

[The Archregimancy]

One three-line RP and Taeshan's on to the World Cup. Makes me not want to participate at all.

What concerns me more, from a moderation perspective, is the extent to which many recent 'RPs' from Antoletia and Taeshan - particularly the former account - border on wholly irrelevant spam.

In WC 58, I officially warned Taeshan's Antoletia accountaccordingly.

I wasn't thrilled with this WC59 effort either, though I let it pass.

Taeshan's 'one three-line RP' this cup seemed similarly irrelevant.

None of this is against the WC rules, nor do I think it should be something the WCC should be policing (how hosts choose to award bonuses is in any case a matter for the hosts); but I nonetheless can understand CC's frustration given the nature of that RP.

And spam is against site rules.

So I'd like to risk officially opening a can of worms here, and invite thoughts from the NSWC community over whether the community as a whole considers some of Antoletia/Taeshan's 'RP' to consist of spam; perhaps there's an IC issue I'm missing here that should mitigate reaction here. I would also note that we've traditionally been highly tolerant of widely divergent RP styles. Nonetheless, those recent 'RPs' have caused me some concern.

Let me make it very clear that I'm not asking your opinion on what the moderation team should do about it if you do think it's spam - that's a discussion for the mods - nor am I saying that I will personally endorse any opinions expressed here on what constitutes spam. But I would welcome some feedback on what the community as a whole thinks on the issue.

[Wight]

Without making it sound like a summons, the best person to ask is Taeshan. I feel for CC and all the group members in with T/Ant, they've made no sense whatsoever and don't seem to be going anywhere, but perhaps they are, and Taeshan would be the one to tell us.

[New Montreal States]

Taeshan's posts are usually brief match reports, and although they hurt to look at, I think they should be counted as legitimate, albeit unreadable (thanks to the color scheme) RPs.

Ant's one-liners, however, often have nothing whatsoever to do with anything at all. That one about the prom dress, for instance, is probably spam.

[The Archregimancy]

Taeshan's posts are usually brief match reports, and although they hurt to look at, I think they should be counted as legitimate, albeit unreadable (thanks to the color scheme) RPs.

Ant's one-liners, however, often have nothing whatsoever to do with anything at all. That one about the prom dress, for instance, is probably spam.

I have no issue with Taeshan's match reports, when he uses that format.

My raising this issue should not be construed as a criticism of the content, manner, or appearance of the Taeshan/Antoletia match reports when match reports - whatever the content - are posted. We've always welcomed participants with a range of abilities, and I don't want that to change. Taeshan should not be made to feel unwelcome here.

It's those irrelevant posts that make no attempt to engage with the World Cup, particularly the ones from the Antoletia account, that have caused me some concern.

And even there, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt if it can be shown that - however tangentially - they relate to an ongoing RP theme.

But if not, I will have to start think about whether these should be more consistently construed as spam, and should be moderated accordingly.

[Cassadaigua]

One three-line RP and Taeshan's on to the World Cup. Makes me not want to participate at all.

What concerns me more, from a moderation perspective, is the extent to which many recent 'RPs' from Antoletia and Taeshan - particularly the former account - border on wholly irrelevant spam.

I think it should be left to the hosts to determine if the RP was adequate and how they score it. The Antoletia ones were probably spam from WC58, but the Taeshan three-liner could be a legitimate RP though a poor one. If the prom dress one was after a bad loss then it could be seen as a tweet (Twitter) by someone covering the team and their opinion of the result. Also while it hasn't happened as much in World Cup 59, I will also see posts that are about 8-10 paragraphs of something that also has nothing to actually do with the World Cup and could just be a cut and paste from a thread on a regional message board. Is that any better just because it was much longer? There's a lot to read, but does it add something to the competition that a three liner does not? A lot has been allowed in the past that have nothing to do with the competition so this does seem like a little picking on Taeshan. Let the hosts decide how to handle it and score it.

[The Archregimancy]

A lot has been allowed in the past that have nothing to do with the competition so this does seem like a little picking on Taeshan. Let the hosts decide how to handle it and score it.

Certainly it's not my intent to pick on anyone, and I stress again that I do want to give him the benefit of the doubt if possible. I also very much want to canvass some broad opinion here rather than act unilaterally.

And yes, I'd particularly welcome input from Taeshan himself.

[The Babbage Islands]

Taeshan's posts are usually brief match reports, and although they hurt to look at, I think they should be counted as legitimate, albeit unreadable (thanks to the color scheme) RPs.

Ant's one-liners, however, often have nothing whatsoever to do with anything at all. That one about the prom dress, for instance, is probably spam.

I have no issue with Taeshan's match reports, when he uses that format.

My raising this issue should not be construed as a criticism of the content, manner, or appearance of the Taeshan/Antoletia match reports when match reports - whatever the content - are posted. We've always welcomed participants with a range of abilities, and I don't want that to change. Taeshan should not be made to feel unwelcome here.

It's those irrelevant posts that make no attempt to engage with the World Cup, particularly the ones from the Antoletia account, that have caused me some concern.

And even there, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt if it can be shown that - however tangentially - they relate to an ongoing RP theme.

But if not, I will have to start think about whether these should be more consistently construed as spam, and should be moderated accordingly.

That's going to be a tough line to walk. We've all seen some pretty good RP that had zip to do with a football tournament from time to time, Antoletia's spam-warned examples from the prior Cup, were they even a modest paragraph each instead of a sentence, could tell a story.

I share the faith of Max Barry's team in your ability to make the hard calls. And in the face of the earlier warning the Antoletia post from this Cup surely is flirting with trouble. But the benefit of the doubt is crucial.

[Ancharmunn]

Frankly Taeshan's one liners are not any developing storyline but merely taking the piss, and that I'd say is what's got CC's goat as much as anything. Comments such as the following made on irc say it all.

[2012-04-10 19:58:36] <Tae> must make pathetic attempt to rp so that i have coh safety net

More fool him that he didn't actually bother reading the part of the winning bid that states "The minimum criteria for invitational consideration will be three satisfactory RPs and a roster".

[Liventia]

I had this very discussion with Vilita last night on IRC as CoH to WC host and we agreed to the fact that neither of us would classify either Taeshan or Antoletia's "RPs" as meeting the CoH requirement of "satisfactory RPs". IMO, it's spam, and should be treated as such.

[Cassadaigua]

Frankly Taeshan's one liners are not any developing storyline but merely taking the piss, and that I'd say is what's got CC's goat as much as anything. Comments such as the following made on irc say it all.

[2012-04-10 19:58:36] <Tae> must make pathetic attempt to rp so that i have coh safety net

More fool him that he didn't actually bother reading the part of the winning bid that states "The minimum criteria for invitational consideration will be three satisfactory RPs and a roster".

In light of this I take back my attempt to defend him but I do think this "RP to get something in" is something that has happened more then just in these examples and still just think it should be left to the hosts.

I think it was Akbarabad who made the suggestion that maybe these playoffs should be Home-Away and decided on aggregate. I feel bad for Civil Citizenry also, our group, RP-wise deserved more then one team to come out of it.

[Bears Armed]

By ranking, CC should have beaten Taeshan and Taeshan didn't RP very much anyway.

But we are dealing with random number systems which do throw up weird results all the time.
I do think CC will qualify in WC60 or 61.

Since we're all grieving our frustrations over rank vs. RP vs. randomness, I'll have a go with mine. As a noobie to the World Cup, I agree that it's frustrating to put time and effort into creatively(?) RPing every week only to get beat by a team that don't do anything. I RPed at least once every day through MD10, but I still lost both times to Mytannion (who didn't post a roster or RP at all) and Burchadinger (who doesn't even exist anymore!). I get that the ranking serves to simulate the reality of dynastic teams and to reward long term participation. But I would like to see RPs weighted a bit more heavily, since I admit it was frustrating knowing that the ranking bonus made it an almost mathematical truth that I'd just be RPing about how bad my team was losing each day.

That said, I also get that the whole thing is ultimately random, and even the Imperial Canadian Dutchy could beat Aguazul if the number generator gets in one of its moods. I'd just like to see RPing have more of an impact. It is what we're supposed to be doing in this forum, right? RPing?

One of the main problems with that is that, with the way that the scorinators in use work, giving a greater role to RP also automatically gives a greater role to randomness and that can reduce the effect of Rank by what some of us would consider to be too much.
Having said which, the fact that the Bear-Belles came within 1 goal (in extra time) of having to go through a penalty shootout succesfully in order to avoid being eliminated by a lower-ranked team that hadn't even posted a roster let alone RPed at all... Well, at least we did get that goal and do go on into the Cup proper...

[The Babbage Islands]

I think it was Akbarabad who made the suggestion that maybe these playoffs should be Home-Away and decided on aggregate. I feel bad for Civil Citizenry also, our group, RP-wise deserved more then one team to come out of it.

I agree. If we have formats where the playoff games are necessary at all, let them be home-and-home like the qualifying groups. It's worth the extra matchday.

[Bears Armed]

By ranking, CC should have beaten Taeshan and Taeshan didn't RP very much anyway.

But we are dealing with random number systems which do throw up weird results all the time.
I do think CC will qualify in WC60 or 61.

Since we're all grieving our frustrations over rank vs. RP vs. randomness, I'll have a go with mine. As a noobie to the World Cup, I agree that it's frustrating to put time and effort into creatively(?) RPing every week only to get beat by a team that don't do anything. I RPed at least once every day through MD10, but I still lost both times to Mytannion (who didn't post a roster or RP at all) and Burchadinger (who doesn't even exist anymore!). I get that the ranking serves to simulate the reality of dynastic teams and to reward long term participation. But I would like to see RPs weighted a bit more heavily, since I admit it was frustrating knowing that the ranking bonus made it an almost mathematical truth that I'd just be RPing about how bad my team was losing each day.

That said, I also get that the whole thing is ultimately random, and even the Imperial Canadian Dutchy could beat Aguazul if the number generator gets in one of its moods. I'd just like to see RPing have more of an impact. It is what we're supposed to be doing in this forum, right? RPing?

One of the main problems with that is that, with the way that the scorinators in use work, giving a greater role to RP also automatically gives a greater role to randomness and that can reduce the effect of Rank by what some of us would consider to be too much.
Having said which, the fact that the Bear-Belles came within 1 goal (in extra time) of having to go through a penalty shootout succesfully in order to avoid being eliminated by a lower-ranked team that hadn't even posted a roster let alone RPed at all... Well, at least we did get that goal and do go on into the Cup proper...

[The Babbage Islands]

One of the main problems with that is that, with the way that the scorinators in use work, giving a greater role to RP also automatically gives a greater role to randomness and that can reduce the effect of Rank by what some of us would consider to be too much.
Having said which, the fact that the Bear-Belles came within 1 goal (in extra time) of having to go through a penalty shootout succesfully in order to avoid being eliminated by a lower-ranked team that hadn't even posted a roster let alone RPed at all... Well, at least we did get that goal and do go on into the Cup proper...

I don't agree. It's not at all automatic if you steer clear of NSFS, and not always automatic even then.

[Phoenigetuzstha]

I'm a bit disappointed that I didn't get a Cup of Harmony invite...

I mean, I RP'ed every matchday that I was playing but one...

[Liventia]

I'm a bit disappointed that I didn't get a Cup of Harmony invite...

I mean, I RP'ed every matchday that I was playing but one...

As has been repeatedly said — Cup of Harmony invitations are not yet finalised. Whinging about it only makes you less likely to get one.

[Phoenigetuzstha]

I'm a bit disappointed that I didn't get a Cup of Harmony invite...

I mean, I RP'ed every matchday that I was playing but one...

As has been repeatedly said — Cup of Harmony invitations are not yet finalised. Whinging about it only makes you less likely to get one.

Okay, sorry. I'll be tight lipped from now on

[Homelands our]

101 soo close to top 100.
Sorry for no RP's I was on holiday!

[Jeruselem]

Funny, World Cup 58 ... Antoletia automatic qualifier with their one line RPs pushed me into the playoffs against ... Taeshan.

[Vilita]

To respond to a question in the middle of the Taeshan discussion, the WC Draw will be Friday (MD1 will follow on Monday).


As for Taeshan's post, as LE already mentioned, it was not scored as an "RP" by me.