World Cup 60 host bid: The Babbage Islands and Saugeais

[The Babbage Islands]

World Cup 60 Host Bid
The Babbage Islands and Saugeais


(Thank you to Polar Islandstates for the logo!)

The Football Federation of Babbage and the Football Association of Saugeais herewith submit for consideration of the community a bid to host the sixtieth edition of association football's World Cup.

Qualifying format

We anticipate the possibility of a record number of entries. Our primary formats are twenty groups of eight teams each, 162 teams, or 24 groups of eight teams each, 194 teams. (24 groups of 7 accomodate 170 as well.) Groups of seven or eight allow 12 or 14 qualifying matches to be played home-and-home across 14 match days.

• Twenty groups necessitate the second-place teams in each group being scheduled for a playoff match to advance. This match would be two legs home-and-home.
• Twenty-four groups necessitate drawing the second-place teams into six pods of four, each pod qualifying one team. This would involve two rounds of single-elimination with all matches at neutral sites.

We do not have issues with some groups having seven teams and others eight, although we will strive to hold open entries to get an optimal number.

(Should it become clear that more than 194 nations will seek entry, we have prepared additional extreme solutions that incorporate single-round-robin schedules with balanced home-vs-away pairings. For example, 15 groups of 15 would accommodate 227 teams playing 14 matches across 15 matchdays with no playoffs. We are committed to a policy of inclusion in all circumstances.)

Puppetry

Players who have previously participated in the World Cup may enter two nations, designating one as a "puppet." Players in their first World Cup are limited to one national entry.

In the event that the hosts must trim the field to make a workable format, after first seeking volunteers then puppets will be trimmed first in strict reverse order of entry (last in, first out).

Tiebreaks

In qualifying stage where home-and-home matches were played

1. Head-to-head points earned
2. Head-to-head goal differential
3. Head-to-head goals scored (with two teams, away goals scored)
4. Goal differential in all matches
5. Goals scored in all matches
6. Playoff match at a neutral site--only when necessary to determine further advancement.

In group stage

1. Goal differential in all matches
2. Goals scored in all matches
3. Head-to-head points earned
4. Head-to-head goal differential
5. Head-to-head goals scored (with two teams, away goals scored)
6. Playoff match at a neutral site--only when necessary to determine further advancement.

NB: In all cases of three or more tied teams regardless of stage, the head-to-head tiebreakers apply recursively.

Scorination

The current edition of xkoranate will be used with the SQIS formula.

Matches will generally be scheduled daily during qualifying and every other day during the World Cup tournament. Three additional "match days" will be set aside for the convenience of scheduling friendlies and playoffs--one the day before qualifying, one at the midpoint, and one the day after qualifying. Note that friendlies are a matter of private arrangement and not a host function aside from allotting traditional times for same.

Anticipated scorination times for each co-host will be announced.

Rosters

Rosters are strongly encouraged. A team should post one roster to the separate rosters thread. Each roster will be evaluated as a distinct roleplay, not attributed to any one match day, with its bonus doubled.

Any limits on opponents' roleplaying of your characters or events affecting them should they RP first must be outlined in your roster to have effect. For example, these may include limits on godmodding, on use of yellow and/or red cards, on assignment of scorers, or on injuries.

Roleplay bonuses

A scheme of cumulative bonuses will be used without degradation. A nation earns a maximum of one bonus per match day regardless of the number of RPs submitted. These daily bonuses are scaled according to merit, with the maximum kept unpublished (in part because the number will be format-dependent). However, our object with scaling the bonuses will be to allow a nation earning near-maximum bonuses daily to build up to a temporary form comparable to the pre-bonus KPBs of teams ranked in the twenties by the end of qualifying.

For the group stage and tournament proper, teams will begin with their post-qualifying recalculated KPB rank plus their roster bonus. Other RP bonuses are reset to zero.

About the co-hosts

The Babbage Islands are bidding to host their third World Cup. They were junior hosts with Newmanistan for a then-record 137 teams in World Cup 49, followed by serving as senior hosts with Cassadaigua for 169 teams in World Cup 54. No strangers to the highest levels of hosting, they have also hosted the World Baseball Classic twice, the World Bowl and its Baptism of Iron, and the Handball World Cup amongst nearly 40 tournaments. As competitors they have contested 13 World Cup cycles beginning with World Cup 47 and have qualified 11 times.

Saugeais, junior hosts of Cup of Harmony 47 with Sarzonia, seek to host their first World Cup. They have also been active hosts in a number of sports including major event experience through the World Baseball Classic, the Rugby League World Cup, and the Copa Rushmori. As competitors they have contested seven World Cup cycles beginning with World Cup 53 and have qualified twice.

[Polar Islandstates]

Qualifying format

We anticipate the possibility of a record number of entries. Our primary formats are twenty groups of eight teams each, 162 teams, or 24 groups of eight teams each, 194 teams. (24 groups of 7 accomodate 170 as well.) Groups of seven or eight allow 12 or 14 qualifying matches to be played home-and-home across 14 match days.

• Twenty groups necessitate the second-place teams in each group being scheduled for a playoff match to advance. This match would be two legs home-and-home.
• Twenty-four groups necessitate drawing the second-place teams into six pods of four, each pod qualifying one team. This would involve two rounds of single-elimination with all matches at neutral sites.

We do not have issues with some groups having seven teams and others eight, although we will strive to hold open entries to get an optimal number.

(Should it become clear that more than 194 nations will seek entry, we have prepared additional extreme solutions that incorporate single-round-robin schedules with balanced home-vs-away pairings. For example, 15 groups of 15 would accommodate 227 teams playing 14 matches across 15 matchdays with no playoffs. We are committed to a policy of inclusion in all circumstances.)

This is probably a fairly academic question, as I'm sure both of you are able to manipulate groups and matchdays easily, but out of interest what would your preferences be in the event of far fewer entries? Its very good anticipating record numbers, but I think the levels of RP and the amount of entries this cycle indicate that opposite could well happen.

Speaking as a co-host of the current cycle, there was consensus to wait for further entries that it was assumed would be forthcoming, but in actual fact we very much limped to twenty groups of seven in terms of participation.

So, leaving aside the hairs on the back of my neck that stand up when thinking about these "pods" of playoffs, what would your preferred qualification formats be in the case of participation figures being much lower? Twenty groups of five, six, or seven with a qualifier and a playoff? Fifteen groups of seven, eight, nine with the top two qualifying? I just think planning for 227 teams when the current cycle has 142 isn't necessarily that useful.

[Saugeais]

That's a good question, something we have considered but didn't think would come to fruition due to this being a "major anniversary" World Cup event. We are at around 100 entries so far, and that's within the first 48 hours of the thread being open, and I personally expect that to grow. However, if we do not meet our minimum stated entries of 160, then TBI and I will come up with backup plans to accommodate those that have signed up (or remove puppets, if that must be the case). We'd love to stick with the 20 groups, where one winner and one playoff team will advance from them, but 15 groups with 2 automatic advancing teams is not out of the question, either.

[New Montreal States]

This is the minorest of aesthetic quibbles, but would you be willing to include a link to the referee thread along with the usual links to the RP, rosters and scores threads, to remind everyone that the referee thread exists and to encourage people to create refs? Because right now we have maybe ten entries to referee a few hundred matches, and those names are bound to get repetitive after a while.

[Saugeais]

This is the minorest of aesthetic quibbles, but would you be willing to include a link to the referee thread along with the usual links to the RP, rosters and scores threads, to remind everyone that the referee thread exists and to encourage people to create refs? Because right now we have maybe ten entries to referee a few hundred matches, and those names are bound to get repetitive after a while.

I'd be willing to, and I'm sure TBI would have no qualms about it either. I should be posting a couple refs myself in the next day or two.

[Saugeais]

Bumping to provide extra opportunities for discussion.

[New Montreal States]

For the group stage and tournament proper, teams will begin with their post-qualifying recalculated KPB rank plus their roster bonus. Other RP bonuses are reset to zero.

So everyone's RP bonus from qualifiers would just vanish in the Finals? Why? This doesn't make any sense to me.

[Liventia]

For the group stage and tournament proper, teams will begin with their post-qualifying recalculated KPB rank plus their roster bonus. Other RP bonuses are reset to zero.

So everyone's RP bonus from qualifiers would just vanish in the Finals? Why? This doesn't make any sense to me.

Why not? It's been done before.

[The Babbage Islands]

For the group stage and tournament proper, teams will begin with their post-qualifying recalculated KPB rank plus their roster bonus. Other RP bonuses are reset to zero.

So everyone's RP bonus from qualifiers would just vanish in the Finals? Why? This doesn't make any sense to me.

That practice has become the norm for the post-Jolt era, as long as post-qualifying updated ranks are available (thus letting people reap the benefit of their performance).

[Vilita]

So everyone's RP bonus from qualifiers would just vanish in the Finals? Why? This doesn't make any sense to me.

That practice has become the norm for the post-Jolt era, as long as post-qualifying updated ranks are available (thus letting people reap the benefit of their performance).

As far as I recall, it was the norm for the Jolt era as well. RP bonus was used to offset the rankings, when new rankings were issued, the RP bonus started from that point as well. Thats not to say that a particular host does or does not choose to use the RP bonus from the qualifiers at all in the finals, but generally speaking, I would have assumed the norm was that when new ranks came out, RP bonus started from that point as well for the next competition.

Just like, you earn your place in the CoH and your rank in the CoH by RPing in the WCQ. But your RP bonus from WCQ doesn't carry over to the CoH.

[Michael VII]

Although it would complete Starblaydia's trifecta, I am supporting this bid. SQIS formula on xkoranate, anything but NSFS I'll vote for!

[The Babbage Islands]

That practice has become the norm for the post-Jolt era, as long as post-qualifying updated ranks are available (thus letting people reap the benefit of their performance).

As far as I recall, it was the norm for the Jolt era as well. RP bonus was used to offset the rankings, when new rankings were issued, the RP bonus started from that point as well. Thats not to say that a particular host does or does not choose to use the RP bonus from the qualifiers at all in the finals, but generally speaking, I would have assumed the norm was that when new ranks came out, RP bonus started from that point as well for the next competition.

Just like, you earn your place in the CoH and your rank in the CoH by RPing in the WCQ. But your RP bonus from WCQ doesn't carry over to the CoH.

Thanks for the additional information. TBI is essentially a post-Jolt nation--our first WC qualifying attempt was 47, and our first sports post of any kind was after the board switch about five weeks after the nation was created. So I wasn't going to extrapolate beyond my own experience, particularly because I remember the point in question being discussed at that time as well.

Although it would complete Starblaydia's trifecta, I am supporting this bid. SQIS formula on xkoranate, anything but NSFS I'll vote for!

Thank you for the support.

[Akbarabad]

Will playoff matches utilize the away goals rule?

[The Babbage Islands]

Will playoff matches utilize the away goals rule?

Two-leg playoff matches, as envisioned in twenty-group formats, would certainly use the away goals rule when aggregate is equal.

[Camwood]

This is a pretty good bid. I support.

[Liventia]

Primarily because this bid would allow another good potential host to have the opportunity of hosting the World Cup, this bid has preferred status for me.

[The Babbage Islands]

Primarily because this bid would allow another good potential host to have the opportunity of hosting the World Cup, this bid has preferred status for me.

This is a pretty good bid. I support.

Thank you. We appreciate the good will.

[Kagdazka and Pazhujebu]

I am 90% certain that I am a one-nation minority in saying this (I believe ESF once said he "f***ing hated it") but I thoroughly enjoyed the two-tiered qualification system used by Cass and TBI in World Cup 54. It was well-organized and comprehensively planned. Should this bid make use of a less-than-familiar format, like single-round-robin or playoff pods, I will be more than comfortable with it simply on account of TBI being behind the reins. I am sure that any unusual elements will be undertaken with intelligence and care.

[Krytenia]

I'm so glad we have two highly contrasting bids this time. I wish TBI and Saugeais the best of luck in the voting; may the best bid win.

[The Babbage Islands]

I am 90% certain that I am a one-nation minority in saying this (I believe ESF once said he "f***ing hated it") but I thoroughly enjoyed the two-tiered qualification system used by Cass and TBI in World Cup 54. It was well-organized and comprehensively planned. Should this bid make use of a less-than-familiar format, like single-round-robin or playoff pods, I will be more than comfortable with it simply on account of TBI being behind the reins. I am sure that any unusual elements will be undertaken with intelligence and care.

I assure you that you are not in a one-nation minority; I've heard back from enough people to know otherwise.

Saugeais and I went for conventional in this bid in every respect save one -- we feel that it is necessary to describe how we might handle a very large field. There is an increasing community consensus that 18 MDs are perhaps too long and 22 MDs are right out -- but any number of teams beyond 162 (20 groups of eight) forces an unusual number of groups, a group size requiring 18 or more matchdays, or single round-robin groups. We are ready to meet the challenge by looking at all these factors without simply saying "No more."

I'm so glad we have two highly contrasting bids this time. I wish TBI and Saugeais the best of luck in the voting; may the best bid win.

I'm in full agreement. We have two well-considered bids and four competent hosts making the run, and I look forward to an outstanding World Cup regardless of the final tally.

[Audioslavia]

I am 90% certain that I am a one-nation minority in saying this (I believe ESF once said he "f***ing hated it") but I thoroughly enjoyed the two-tiered qualification system used by Cass and TBI in World Cup 54. It was well-organized and comprehensively planned. Should this bid make use of a less-than-familiar format, like single-round-robin or playoff pods, I will be more than comfortable with it simply on account of TBI being behind the reins. I am sure that any unusual elements will be undertaken with intelligence and care.

I stumbled upon the NSwiki page for World Cup 54 a few weeks ago and was surprised to see that a two-tiered qualifying system had been used. It looked like a good system and I'd be happy to see it tried again.

What were the reasons for people disliking it?

The only reason I'd dislike two-tiered qualifying would be if larger teams were given a 'bye' through the first stage of qualifying, or 'pre-qualifying' if you will, but putting group-winners straight through to the tournament and throwing the runners-up into small groups together seems like a great idea.

The 'neutral-venues' thing: Will these neutral venues be in TBI/Saugeais? If so, could this be seen as a small expansion of the World Cup tournament itself?

[Vilita]

I think it adds a layer of complication to the rankings, tis about it

[The Babbage Islands]

I stumbled upon the NSwiki page for World Cup 54 a few weeks ago and was surprised to see that a two-tiered qualifying system had been used. It looked like a good system and I'd be happy to see it tried again.

What were the reasons for people disliking it?

Some found it confusing. Some very high-ranked sides found the zonal stage almost trivial, as the top pot in particular were so far above the rest of the five- or six-team group. Some disliked our farming out the interzonals to be hosted for RP purposes by other nations. There were acrimonious discussions on how to compute KPBs. The most-criticised aspect was not doing interzonals home-and-home, although doing this would have erased our sought-for gains on tournament length.

The only reason I'd dislike two-tiered qualifying would be if larger teams were given a 'bye' through the first stage of qualifying, or 'pre-qualifying' if you will, but putting group-winners straight through to the tournament and throwing the runners-up into small groups together seems like a great idea.

The 'neutral-venues' thing: Will these neutral venues be in TBI/Saugeais? If so, could this be seen as a small expansion of the World Cup tournament itself?

Yes, we will have those sites in the host nations (witness the WC 54 experience described above). The playoffs cannot be an expansion of the tournament. Cassadaigua and I originally bid to qualify 48 instead of 32, based largely on the mushrooming fields experienced in the preceding four cups. The consensus of the community after spirited discussion was that the descriptive language about 32 teams in the extant World Cup Constitution was in fact a bar to expansion, and we revised our bid accordingly.

The strongest argument made in support of that position, one which I have come to appreciate, is that keeping the tournament matched to the current FIFA format removes a whole range of sticky questions from the realm of NS politics.

[The Babbage Islands]

Bump to first page for voter convenience.

[Vilita]

If so, could this be seen as a expansion of the tournament?

Cassadaigua and I originally bid to qualify 48 instead of 32, based largely on the mushrooming fields experienced in the preceding four cups. The consensus of the community after spirited discussion was that the descriptive language about 32 teams in the extant World Cup Constitution was in fact a bar to expansion, and we revised our bid accordingly.

The strongest argument made in support of that position, one which I have come to appreciate, is that keeping the tournament matched to the current FIFA format removes a whole range of sticky questions from the realm of NS politics.

I guess itx could also be noted that FIFA starts with a more than we ever do in qualifiers and still cuts down to 32