World Baseball Classic Discussion Thread

[Ethane]

I don't think puppets and main nations should be combined. They are after all IC'ly different, and I feel this should be an IC Hall of Fame, not an OOC Hall of Fame.

[Newmanistan]

Is Sarzonia the guy who tried to stalk Baklava to his prom, or whatever his name was? Or did Baklava stalk him?

I don't know anything about that, but he and Delaclava did seem as though they got along well and they did live close by IRL from what was posted, IIRC.

Sportgirls was The Babbage Islands' puppet.
Cheergirls was Cassadaigua's.

Silly girls....

[Frenline Delpha]

I'm just posting here to inform everyone that I've seen this discussion. However, it is past ten o'clck where I am, so I will cobsider all options tommorrow when its not so late for me.

[Schiltzberg]

I'm just posting here to inform everyone that I've seen this discussion. However, it is past ten o'clck where I am, so I will cobsider all options tommorrow when its not so late for me.

You gotta get your beauty sleep, Mr. Vice President. This is more active than the discussion thread has been in a long time.

[Maklohi Vai]

WBC President list, as I recall:

Saugeais
Maklohi Vai
Super-Llamaland
Nova Anglicana
Schiltzberg

Unsure if there was someone before Saugeais, though I don't remember him being around when I started in WBC 23.

[Frenline Delpha]

For transparency, I have added two new things to the proposal. One is indeed the proposed Article Five, which I feel would be a compromise that will at least help those older nations that fall short in points, but still did well for the WBC. It reads:

Section Five: The third way for a nation to be elected into the Hall of Fame is by nomination. A World Baseball Classic council member or any nation who participated in WBC 1-20 may nominate any nation that has more than 10 points and less than 20 points to be potentially voted into the Hall of Fame. After receiving nomination, the entire council will vote on whether or not the nation should be elected into the Hall of Fame, and if the nation receives a majority of the votes of the council, then that nation is inducted into the Hall of Fame. There is no requirement regarding the number of seasons participated in for a nation to be nominated in this way.

Also, I have added two more ways to earn points towards the WBC:

6. 4 points for WBC President (Full cycle)
7. 2 points for partial presidency (Less than a full cycle)

I think a good thing t next discuss is wether or not puppet points should be combined with their master nation. I believe we should do that, as the purpose of the HoF is to recognize great players and not just nations.

[Schiltzberg]

For transparency, I have added two new things to the proposal. One is indeed the proposed Article Five, which I feel would be a compromise that will at least help those older nations that fall short in points, but still did well for the WBC. It reads:

Section Five: The third way for a nation to be elected into the Hall of Fame is by nomination. A World Baseball Classic council member or any nation who participated in WBC 1-20 may nominate any nation that has more than 10 points and less than 20 points to be potentially voted into the Hall of Fame. After receiving nomination, the entire council will vote on whether or not the nation should be elected into the Hall of Fame, and if the nation receives a majority of the votes of the council, then that nation is inducted into the Hall of Fame. There is no requirement regarding the number of seasons participated in for a nation to be nominated in this way.

Also, I have added two more ways to earn points towards the WBC:

6. 4 points for WBC President (Full cycle)
7. 2 points for partial presidency (Less than a full cycle)

I think a good thing t next discuss is wether or not puppet points should be combined with their master nation. I believe we should do that, as the purpose of the HoF is to recognize great players and not just nations.

Honestly, I don't think that the nomination should just be for seasons 1-20. I think that it should be for players of all seasons, as long as the nominee has 10 points.

As far as the puppet nations go, I think that since the HOF is IC, the inductees should be IC. I agree with Ethane's opinion on this:

I don't think puppets and main nations should be combined. They are after all IC'ly different, and I feel this should be an IC Hall of Fame, not an OOC Hall of Fame.

Where this is still confusing is when you get to situations like Saintland, where Ilyseum is still considered to be within the IC nation, just a faction of it (I think that is the IC story?). I am pretty sure that the only case in which the use of puppets would actually matter would be with Saintland, so maybe we could say that puppet nations usually don't count, but we could make an exception for Saintland, since the use of puppets has been a key trademark of his RPing style.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Ilyseum is not a faction of Saintland. West Saintland and Feministvs Sanctvsterra are.

[Frenline Delpha]

I think a good thing t next discuss is wether or not puppet points should be combined with their master nation. I believe we should do that, as the purpose of the HoF is to recognize great players and not just nations.

Honestly, I don't think that the nomination should just be for seasons 1-20. I think that it should be for players of all seasons, as long as the nominee has 10 points.[/quote]
No, anyone who participated in WBCs 1-20 may nominate someone even if they aren't on the council.

[Schiltzberg]

I think a good thing t next discuss is wether or not puppet points should be combined with their master nation. I believe we should do that, as the purpose of the HoF is to recognize great players and not just nations.

Honestly, I don't think that the nomination should just be for seasons 1-20. I think that it should be for players of all seasons, as long as the nominee has 10 points.

No, anyone who participated in WBCs 1-20 may nominate someone even if they aren't on the council.[/quote]
Ohhhh, sorry, I misread it.

[Schiltzberg]

Unless anyone wants to make changes to it, I will send out Frenline's proposal as it stands tomorrow when I also send out the host voting and the other proposed amendment. I was thinking maybe we could come to a consensus on how we are going to handle the puppet issue in Frenline's proposal before we put it up for a vote.

[Maklohi Vai]

Unless anyone wants to make changes to it, I will send out Frenline's proposal as it stands tomorrow when I also send out the host voting and the other proposed amendment. I was thinking maybe we could come to a consensus on how we are going to handle the puppet issue in Frenline's proposal before we put it up for a vote.

If this is really an IC HOF, then puppets and master nations should be distinguished. If we're honoring users, then they shouldn't be. Simple as that: have the HOF follow the guidelines of the forum usage.

[Frenline Delpha]

Unless anyone wants to make changes to it, I will send out Frenline's proposal as it stands tomorrow when I also send out the host voting and the other proposed amendment. I was thinking maybe we could come to a consensus on how we are going to handle the puppet issue in Frenline's proposal before we put it up for a vote.

If this is really an IC HOF, then puppets and master nations should be distinguished. If we're honoring users, then they shouldn't be. Simple as that: have the HOF follow the guidelines of the forum usage.

I wrote the article to make the HoF a thing that would recognize great users. That's why I say we should have puppets and main nations combine points.

[Schiltzberg]

If this is really an IC HOF, then puppets and master nations should be distinguished. If we're honoring users, then they shouldn't be. Simple as that: have the HOF follow the guidelines of the forum usage.

I wrote the article to make the HoF a thing that would recognize great users. That's why I say we should have puppets and main nations combine points.

Ah, I tend to see it from the other way around though... Hmmm, I guess we have to decide if it is in character or ooc.

[Nova Anglicana]

I'm in favor of the compromise whereby nations that are recognized as being part of/connected with other nations count towards the HoF for the original nation. For example, Zyarus/South Yerfilag, Saintland/Feministvs Sanctvsterra/West Saintland, etc. But not for other puppets, i.e. if I were to enter Garifunya, I'd want any points they accumulated to be separate from Nova Anglicana, because they are different nations.

[Frenline Delpha]

I'm in favor of the compromise whereby nations that are recognized as being part of/connected with other nations count towards the HoF for the original nation. For example, Zyarus/South Yerfilag, Saintland/Feministvs Sanctvsterra/West Saintland, etc. But not for other puppets, i.e. if I were to enter Garifunya, I'd want any points they accumulated to be separate from Nova Anglicana, because they are different nations.

I can get down with this.

[Schiltzberg]

I'm in favor of the compromise whereby nations that are recognized as being part of/connected with other nations count towards the HoF for the original nation. For example, Zyarus/South Yerfilag, Saintland/Feministvs Sanctvsterra/West Saintland, etc. But not for other puppets, i.e. if I were to enter Garifunya, I'd want any points they accumulated to be separate from Nova Anglicana, because they are different nations.

I also support this compromise.

[Maklohi Vai]

I'm in favor of the compromise whereby nations that are recognized as being part of/connected with other nations count towards the HoF for the original nation. For example, Zyarus/South Yerfilag, Saintland/Feministvs Sanctvsterra/West Saintland, etc. But not for other puppets, i.e. if I were to enter Garifunya, I'd want any points they accumulated to be separate from Nova Anglicana, because they are different nations.

I support this as well.

[Frenline Delpha]

With four people supporting this change, I am willing to add this into the proposal.

[Frenline Delpha]

Based on the compromise, I have wrote Section 9, of Article Nine (lovely how that worked):

Section Nine: Nations that are recognized as being a part of a main nation will have their points added to the main nation’s total. Puppets that are not IC-ly connected to the main nation of any user are not connected to the main nation’s points and may not earn points, unless their master nation is not above ten points.

[Maklohi Vai]

Based on the compromise, I have wrote Section 9, of Article Nine (lovely how that worked):

Section Nine: Nations that are recognized as being a part of a main nation will have their points added to the main nation’s total. Puppets that are not IC-ly connected to the main nation of any user are not connected to the main nation’s points and may not earn points, unless their master nation is not above ten points.

I'd edit that slightly:

Section Nine: Nations that are recognized as being a politically constituent part of a main nation will have their points added to the main nation’s total. Puppets that are not connected in character to the main nation of any user may not contribute to the main nation’s point total. Such puppets may not earn points themselves, unless the master nation under control of the same user does not have above ten points.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

My concern is that you could potentially have two parts of the same nation counting separately. For instance, East Saintland is a part of the original Saintland as well so Saintland could potentially earn double points by entering both of them. Perhaps say that two nations shall be considered the same if one inherited the rank of the other, as West Saintland, Saintland, and a Feministvs Sanctvsterra did with each other.

And there could also be a situation like the USA and Puerto Rico, who compete separately at the RL WBC even though Puerto Rico is a US territory. I seem to remember entering either my Special Administrative Zone or a Slave Island once but I could be wrong. But if I'm right, whatever that nation did shouldn't count towards my main.

[Frenline Delpha]

My concern is that you could potentially have two parts of the same nation counting separately. For instance, East Saintland is a part of the original Saintland as well so Saintland could potentially earn double points by entering both of them. Perhaps say that two nations shall be considered the same if one inherited the rank of the other, as West Saintland, Saintland, and a Feministvs Sanctvsterra did with each other.

And there could also be a situation like the USA and Puerto Rico, who compete separately at the RL WBC even though Puerto Rico is a US territory. I seem to remember entering either my Special Administrative Zone or a Slave Island once but I could be wrong. But if I'm right, whatever that nation did shouldn't count towards my main.

I have taking this into consideration, and ammended it as such:

Section Nine: Nations that are recognized as being a politically constituent part of a main nation will have their points added to the main nation’s total. Two nations shall be considered constituent if one inherited the rank of the other while participating in a WBC. Puppets that are not connected in character to the main nation of any user may not contribute to the main nation’s point total. Such puppets may not earn points themselves, unless the master nation under control of the same user does not have above ten points.

[Sandberg]

This will be the puppet that I (Schiltzberg) use to collect the votes. Here is a copy of the finalized amendment, as proposed by Frenline Delpha, so that I can link to it:

Proposed Article IX: Hall of Fame

Section One: In order to recognize excellent achievements through the storied history of the longest running tournament of the four North American sports, and to recognize the nations who helped make it that way, this council seeks to establish a Hall of Fame.

Section Two: There are three ways to reach the Hall of Fame. The first is to reach 20 points through a scale that awards points based on how well a nation did in previous World Baseball Classics. Nations that achieve 20 points are automatically inducted without the need for a council vote. The following scale gives the number of points scored per result in previous World Baseball Classics:
6 points per championship
4 points for a runner-up
2 points for third place
1 point for fourth place
3 points for hosting
4 points for WBC President (Full cycle; 3 WBCs)
2 points for partial presidency (Less than a full cycle)

Section Three: The second way to reach the Hall of Fame is to have participated in ten World Baseball Classics (this applies to users, and not specifically nations). However, the entrance may not take place if the nation in question has less than ten points.

Section Four: If a nation or person behind said nation is denied into the Hall of Fame after ten WBCs, their membership into the Hall of Fame shall again be looked at in incrementals of five. This means that if a nation doesn’t make it into the Hall of Fame in ten World Baseball Classics, they may be eligible to enter the Hall of Fame again after participating in fifteen, twenty, twenty-five, etc. World Baseball Classics, provided they have ten points.

Section Five: The third way for a nation to be elected into the Hall of Fame is by nomination. A World Baseball Classic council member or any nation who participated in WBC 1-20 may nominate any nation that has more than 10 points and less than 20 points to be potentially voted into the Hall of Fame. After receiving nomination, the entire council will vote on whether or not the nation should be elected into the Hall of Fame, and if the nation receives 50%+1 of the votes of the council, then that nation is inducted into the Hall of Fame. There is no requirement regarding the number of seasons participated in for a nation to be nominated in this way.

Section Six: Hall of Fame membership is to be one nation per person, as to not load down the Hall of Fame with puppets.

Section Seven: Inductions into the Hall of Fame will take place after each WBC, if any nation not already in the Hall of Fame has met one of the above listed criteria. Multiple, different, nations can be inducted at one time.

Section Eight: A nation that has Ceased to Exist (hereby referred to as CTE’d) may still be admitted into the Hall of Fame if they had enough points to qualify for the Hall of Fame before they CTE’d.

Section Nine: Nations that are recognized as being a politically constituent part of a main nation will have their points added to the main nation’s total. Two nations shall be considered constituent if one inherited the rank of the other while participating in a WBC. Puppets that are not connected in character to the main nation of any user may not contribute to the main nation’s point total. Such puppets may not earn points themselves, unless the master nation under control of the same user does not have above ten points.

[Schiltzberg]

This will be the puppet that I (Schiltzberg) use to collect the votes. Here is a copy of the finalized amendment, as proposed by Frenline Delpha, so that I can link to it:

Proposed Article IX: Hall of Fame

Section One: In order to recognize excellent achievements through the storied history of the longest running tournament of the four North American sports, and to recognize the nations who helped make it that way, this council seeks to establish a Hall of Fame.

Section Two: There are three ways to reach the Hall of Fame. The first is to reach 20 points through a scale that awards points based on how well a nation did in previous World Baseball Classics. Nations that achieve 20 points are automatically inducted without the need for a council vote. The following scale gives the number of points scored per result in previous World Baseball Classics:
6 points per championship
4 points for a runner-up
2 points for third place
1 point for fourth place
3 points for hosting
4 points for WBC President (Full cycle; 3 WBCs)
2 points for partial presidency (Less than a full cycle)

Section Three: The second way to reach the Hall of Fame is to have participated in ten World Baseball Classics (this applies to users, and not specifically nations). However, the entrance may not take place if the nation in question has less than ten points.

Section Four: If a nation or person behind said nation is denied into the Hall of Fame after ten WBCs, their membership into the Hall of Fame shall again be looked at in incrementals of five. This means that if a nation doesn’t make it into the Hall of Fame in ten World Baseball Classics, they may be eligible to enter the Hall of Fame again after participating in fifteen, twenty, twenty-five, etc. World Baseball Classics, provided they have ten points.

Section Five: The third way for a nation to be elected into the Hall of Fame is by nomination. A World Baseball Classic council member or any nation who participated in WBC 1-20 may nominate any nation that has more than 10 points and less than 20 points to be potentially voted into the Hall of Fame. After receiving nomination, the entire council will vote on whether or not the nation should be elected into the Hall of Fame, and if the nation receives 50%+1 of the votes of the council, then that nation is inducted into the Hall of Fame. There is no requirement regarding the number of seasons participated in for a nation to be nominated in this way.

Section Six: Hall of Fame membership is to be one nation per person, as to not load down the Hall of Fame with puppets.

Section Seven: Inductions into the Hall of Fame will take place after each WBC, if any nation not already in the Hall of Fame has met one of the above listed criteria. Multiple, different, nations can be inducted at one time.

Section Eight: A nation that has Ceased to Exist (hereby referred to as CTE’d) may still be admitted into the Hall of Fame if they had enough points to qualify for the Hall of Fame before they CTE’d.

Section Nine: Nations that are recognized as being a politically constituent part of a main nation will have their points added to the main nation’s total. Two nations shall be considered constituent if one inherited the rank of the other while participating in a WBC. Puppets that are not connected in character to the main nation of any user may not contribute to the main nation’s point total. Such puppets may not earn points themselves, unless the master nation under control of the same user does not have above ten points.

Puppet confirmed.