World Baseball Classic Discussion Thread

[Maklohi Vai]

-snip-

Could you highlight or point out changes, please?

[Gregoryisgodistan]

I'd add something which says users who are bidding to host can't vote (which we have in the current Constitution). Specifically, I would add a new section in between Sections 1 and 2 of Article II saying "Users who are bidding to host the World Baseball Classic may not vote on the host. These users will not be subject to removal from the Council under Article I section 2c." (Although it should be section 2b since there's no section 2a and there should be.) Then I would renumber the remaining sections of Article II accordingly.

[Super-Llamaland]

•No voting on council
•hosts are automatically on council forever
•President has veto powers w/o 2/3 majority•
•2/3 needed to amend to the constitution instead of 2/3 or 1/2
•no vacations
•appeals to being taken out of the council
•if it doesn't reach quorum it's invalid (this would not change the host vote we just had, however - it would only apply if Taxachusetts had won three to two.)

[Gregoryisgodistan]

As I mentioned above, it also removed the provision that host bidders can't vote (and, in fact, requires them to vote if they are on the Council) but that can be fixed.

Edit on a completely different topic but I don't want to double post: It might also help to TG eligible voters before the vote letting them know to vote and letting them know the options. I actually got this idea from you (Llama) during a previous International Baseball Slam. I used it in IBS VII, and Saintland used it in IBS VIII on my orders when he had to collect votes due to the fact that I was bidding, and in both cases voting actually closed early because Patistan (in VII) and myself (in VIII) received so many votes that RON couldn't possibly beat us. And in those tournaments, all participants could vote which meant some nations would sign up, CTE, and never vote no matter how long voting was open for. With the Council, we shouldn't have that problm. We probably shouldn't end voting early if voting is mandatory (unless everyone has voted), but I think sending reminder TGs when voting opens would help.

[Super-Llamaland]

I actually did send out reminder TGs, although they were pretty brief and didn't have the options.

[Maklohi Vai]

•No voting on council
•hosts are automatically on council forever
•President has veto powers w/o 2/3 majority•
•2/3 needed to amend to the constitution instead of 2/3 or 1/2
•no vacations
•appeals to being taken out of the council
•if it doesn't reach quorum it's invalid (this would not change the host vote we just had, however - it would only apply if Taxachusetts had won three to two.)

-Could you clarify this, please?
-I object, as some hosts do not come back to the WBC after a while and do not stay active in WBC affairs, making them uninformed about the context in which they're voting
-Fine with me, but then there needs to be an override option similar to the US Congress: 2/3 of council members can overturn a veto
-Support
-Support tentatively
-I suppose this is in conjunction with the no vacations provision?
-If you're going to institute this, you need to really be on top of sending TGs to all councillors ASAP. I didn't get a TG for this last vote, for example, and I didn't even vote right away.

[Super-Llamaland]

Don't worry, I'll handle everything until the WBC ends and then pass it on to Nova Anglicana.

And @MV - anyone who's eligible is in the council automatically

[Maklohi Vai]

Don't worry, I'll handle everything until the WBC ends and then pass it on to Nova Anglicana.

And @MV - anyone who's eligible is in the council automatically

Then I am opposed. There are numerous people who in the past have reached qualifications for the council but have not been active members of the community and thus not qualified to be making decisions on its behalf.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Cross-posting from Signup thread

Everything thread is up! Llama, please edit this title to reflect that signups are now closed.

[Royal Johnstone]

A question about RP permissions- When it says "godmod scoring events" does that refer to all scoring events, or just a player's own? I would like the freedom to decide my own scoring plays, even if I lose, but don't care how the opponent does their scoring plays.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Cross-posting from the Everything thread as this should have been put in an OOC thread:

After further consideration, Silkjd Baseball Commitee withdraw from the match as some team members feared the totalitarian rule of Gregoryisgodistan would threaten their personal safety.

Relevant excerpt from the Constitution:

WBC Constitution, December 2013
(previously amended April 2012)

Article VI: Tournament Sportsmanship

Section 1: No team may voluntarily forfeit games or entire series after a World Baseball Classic has started.

Section 2: Only nations that have ceased to exist during the playoffs of the World Baseball Classic before being eliminated are deemed as forfeiting.

Section 3: Nations that cease to exist during a group stage or equivalent of the World Baseball Classic shall be prohibited from advancing beyond that stage, but must play out the remainder of their schedule in that stage. Nations that are subsequently re-founded prior to the end of the stage may advance beyond that stage.

---

I am interpreting the start of a World Baseball Classic to be the posting of the everything thread. Accordingly, I am not accepting Silkjd's withdrawal. If they want to come up with some IC reason why the main team withdrew and send someone else instead (like Saintland sending Feministvs Sanctvsterra to World Cup 68 after the main team "withdrew") that is fine with me.

A question about RP permissions- When it says "godmod scoring events" does that refer to all scoring events, or just a player's own? I would like the freedom to decide my own scoring plays, even if I lose, but don't care how the opponent does their scoring plays.

For clarification "godmod scoring events" means more than just choosing runscorers. Godmodding, in this case, would be something unusual, like a throw from right field hitting a bird and allowing the runner to score. (Godmodding isn't necessarily something completely unrealistic - thrown baseballs have hit birds on at least two occasions during major league games.) You can specify to what extent godmodding is allowed - if you don't mind them godmodding their own runs but do mind them godmodding yours, you can say that. Keep in mind, however, that due to the reciprocal nature of baseball, this may involve them godmodding about your players while they are in the field, as in the bird example. You can specify to what extent this is OK - for instance, you could limit it to events that are plausible (like the bird incident) or just anything that's remotely possible (which would include things like 900 foot home runs but exclude things like spraying the ball with a chemical that makes it repel wood to enable their pitchers to strike out all your hitters. Though the latter would go more under godmod other events.)

if you don't want them choosing your run scorers at all, you should answer "No" to that question, though I don't recommend that as it makes it hard for others to RP.

Edit: Apparently I included outdated sections of the Constitution because nobody has bothered to update that post. The relevant part is the same, but the parts as to what happened if the nation CTEs is different. Fixed.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Just a reminder that the live draw is in about six hours on #WBC33Draw.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

For clarification, since I was asked via TG, there will be linescores posted as generated by the scorinator. Following these linescores is recommended but not mandatory. However, it is mandatory to follow the number of innings listed - if the linescore says it went 11 innings, you need to follow that. The exception is if this creates an impossible result (i.e. the home team winning by five or more in extra innings), in which case you should ignore the linescore entirely and assume the game went only nine innings - following the score takes priority over following the linescore.

Of course, it goes without saying that you should not contradict what your opponent said if they RP first. However, teams will not be penalized for following the linescore even if their opponent's RP permissions do not allow you to choose their runscorers/scoring events - just don't choose the runscorer or how it was scored, or violate any of the other rules I just said. Otherwise it would be all but impossible to RP the game.

[Kaboomlandia]

And the draw's almost underway!

[Nova Anglicana]

For clarification, since I was asked via TG, there will be linescores posted as generated by the scorinator. Following these linescores is recommended but not mandatory. However, it is mandatory to follow the number of innings listed - if the linescore says it went 11 innings, you need to follow that. The exception is if this creates an impossible result (i.e. the home team winning by five or more in extra innings), in which case you should ignore the linescore entirely and assume the game went only nine innings - following the score takes priority over following the linescore.

Of course, it goes without saying that you should not contradict what your opponent said if they RP first. However, teams will not be penalized for following the linescore even if their opponent's RP permissions do not allow you to choose their runscorers/scoring events - just don't choose the runscorer or how it was scored, or violate any of the other rules I just said. Otherwise it would be all but impossible to RP the game.

I thought the general rule was to accept that it went extra innings, but change the score to 10-6 in favor of the home team if they would have won 11-6 in extras, for example.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

For clarification, since I was asked via TG, there will be linescores posted as generated by the scorinator. Following these linescores is recommended but not mandatory. However, it is mandatory to follow the number of innings listed - if the linescore says it went 11 innings, you need to follow that. The exception is if this creates an impossible result (i.e. the home team winning by five or more in extra innings), in which case you should ignore the linescore entirely and assume the game went only nine innings - following the score takes priority over following the linescore.

Of course, it goes without saying that you should not contradict what your opponent said if they RP first. However, teams will not be penalized for following the linescore even if their opponent's RP permissions do not allow you to choose their runscorers/scoring events - just don't choose the runscorer or how it was scored, or violate any of the other rules I just said. Otherwise it would be all but impossible to RP the game.

I thought the general rule was to accept that it went extra innings, but change the score to 10-6 in favor of the home team if they would have won 11-6 in extras, for example.

That would mess up tiebreakers though, where the score would be counted as 11-6.

[Nova Anglicana]

I thought the general rule was to accept that it went extra innings, but change the score to 10-6 in favor of the home team if they would have won 11-6 in extras, for example.

That would mess up tiebreakers though, where the score would be counted as 11-6.

So the host manually changes it in the table generator and saves the new score.

[Equestrian States]

So the host manually changes it in the table generator and saves the new score.

No. The scorinator gives you a score and you use it. Allowing participants to change scores is an absolute no-no.

[Kaboomlandia]

I got stuck in a group with Cosumar and Ko-oren. Well, this'll go over nicely!

[Gregoryisgodistan]

So the host manually changes it in the table generator and saves the new score.

No. The scorinator gives you a score and you use it. Allowing participants to change scores is an absolute no-no.

My thought exactly. I don't want to go about changing scores, especially when it could impact advancement. If Team A wins a game 11-6 in 11 innings according to the scorinator and Team B wins 11-6 in 9 innings, and they're tied in terms of record and run differential, with Team A owning the next tiebreak, shouldn't they advance? But if we change Team A's win to 10-6, they don't. That's not fair.

From the IC thread

Sorry, I know that this is supposed to be IC, but I just had a question. This is the everything thread, so I assume that the picks and matchups that were drawn today will be posted on this thread right?
Thanks -- Schiltzberg

Groups and Matchups are in the original post. Also, please do not post purely OOC posts in the IC thread unless you are a host making official host announcements or a mod performing your modly duties. Post them here.Any further pure OOC posts in the IC thread will result in a penalty being assessed to RP Bonus. (This is not retroactive, so Schiltzberg will not be penalized.)

[Nova Anglicana]

So the host manually changes it in the table generator and saves the new score.

No. The scorinator gives you a score and you use it. Allowing participants to change scores is an absolute no-no.

What is mechanically impossible should be changed. It is not mechanically impossible for a game to go 11 innings. It is mechanically impossible for the home team to win by more than four runs in extra innings.

Edit: If the scorinator generates the score and then the line score, then the problem is with the order of generation. It may sound tyrannical to make people follow the line score, but if that's what it says, that's how it happened. Not every game is going to come down to the last inning for dramatic purposes. People still have complete freedom to RP how the runs were scored, just not in which inning.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

No. The scorinator gives you a score and you use it. Allowing participants to change scores is an absolute no-no.

What is mechanically impossible should be changed. It is not mechanically impossible for a game to go 11 innings. It is mechanically impossible for the home team to win by more than four runs in extra innings.

Edit: If the scorinator generates the score and then the line score, then the problem is with the order of generation. It may sound tyrannical to make people follow the line score, but if that's what it says, that's how it happened. Not every game is going to come down to the last inning for dramatic purposes. People still have complete freedom to RP how the runs were scored, just not in which inning.

The precedent in this tournament has been to recommend, but not require, people to follow the linescores. As a first time host, I don't feel qualified to overturn 32 tournaments of precedent, particularly when such a change was not explicitly stated in my bid. And I'm not going to overturn 10 years of forum-wide precedent by changing the scores that were generated no matter how qualified I am.

However, if you want your opponent to be required to follow the linescore in your games if they RP first, all you have to do is say so in your RP Permissions. That being said, I'm still not going to change any scores, so you'll have to adjust the linescore slightly sometimes, including the number of innings if necessary (and only if necessary - otherwise that much must be followed.)

[Nova Anglicana]

What is mechanically impossible should be changed. It is not mechanically impossible for a game to go 11 innings. It is mechanically impossible for the home team to win by more than four runs in extra innings.

Edit: If the scorinator generates the score and then the line score, then the problem is with the order of generation. It may sound tyrannical to make people follow the line score, but if that's what it says, that's how it happened. Not every game is going to come down to the last inning for dramatic purposes. People still have complete freedom to RP how the runs were scored, just not in which inning.

The precedent in this tournament has been to recommend, but not require, people to follow the linescores. As a first time host, I don't feel qualified to overturn 32 tournaments of precedent, particularly when such a change was not explicitly stated in my bid. And I'm not going to overturn 10 years of forum-wide precedent by changing the scores that were generated no matter how qualified I am.

However, if you want your opponent to be required to follow the linescore in your games if they RP first, all you have to do is say so in your RP Permissions. That being said, I'm still not going to change any scores, so you'll have to adjust the linescore slightly sometimes, including the number of innings if necessary (and only if necessary - otherwise that much must be followed.)

Following the linescore is one of the things I'm a stickler about. It's my own personal preference and I recognize not everyone (or anyone) may agree with me. I apologize if I came off as belligerent.

[Kaboomlandia]

11-0 for URSS over Czesc...oh dear

[United Russian Soviet States]

11-0 for URSS over Czesc...oh dear

We can play ball.