The World Bowl Discussion Thread (OOC)

[The Fanboyists]

And while we're at it, I think Peyton is a great quarterback with impeccable form, and excellent decision making in his ability to read a defense.

He is. He'd just be better by default if he were playing in Baltimore.

[Whittoria]

And while we're at it, I think Peyton is a great quarterback with impeccable form, and excellent decision making in his ability to read a defense.

He is. He'd just be better by default if he were playing in Baltimore.

Well my aunt is from Indiana, so I pull for the Colts. I don't pay as much attention to the pros as I do college football, though there are other teams I like

[Qazox]

I REALLY hate being that guy...

But...

ENOUGH COLTS talk please.

This is the NS World Bowl thread, not the NS Indianpolis Colts thread. There are other threads (or TG each other) in which to discuss the Colts.

[Sarzonia]

Evaluating this past World Bowl is not in any way "Monday Morning quarterbacking" the World Bowl. As Bluth mentioned, this World Bowl had several different features from other World Bowls. It was good to evaluate whether the features worked or are worth examining and refining.

Some of the issues that have come up, whether the complaints are timely or not, are issues that we need to keep in mind whenever someone puts in a bid to host a World Bowl. Some of them may very well alter the way we do things in the future.

As for discussion of the NFL, I agree with the above comment that it's time to take that conversation to TGs or General. You can debate the Redskins or the Colts there to your hearts content. Here is not the place.

[Whittoria]

Evaluating this past World Bowl is not in any way "Monday Morning quarterbacking" the World Bowl. As Bluth mentioned, this World Bowl had several different features from other World Bowls. It was good to evaluate whether the features worked or are worth examining and refining.

Some of the issues that have come up, whether the complaints are timely or not, are issues that we need to keep in mind whenever someone puts in a bid to host a World Bowl. Some of them may very well alter the way we do things in the future.

As for discussion of the NFL, I agree with the above comment that it's time to take that conversation to TGs or General. You can debate the Redskins or the Colts there to your hearts content. Here is not the place.

Agreed; I'm done talking NFL here.

Seriously though, anyone have any thoughts on my inter-division play idea?

[Voltronica]

Evaluating this past World Bowl is not in any way "Monday Morning quarterbacking" the World Bowl. As Bluth mentioned, this World Bowl had several different features from other World Bowls. It was good to evaluate whether the features worked or are worth examining and refining.

Some of the issues that have come up, whether the complaints are timely or not, are issues that we need to keep in mind whenever someone puts in a bid to host a World Bowl. Some of them may very well alter the way we do things in the future.

As for discussion of the NFL, I agree with the above comment that it's time to take that conversation to TGs or General. You can debate the Redskins or the Colts there to your hearts content. Here is not the place.

Agreed; I'm done talking NFL here.

Seriously though, anyone have any thoughts on my inter-division play idea?

well considering i kinda said the same thing but less plainly a few posts before...yeah I like it.

[Whittoria]

Agreed; I'm done talking NFL here.

Seriously though, anyone have any thoughts on my inter-division play idea?

well considering i kinda said the same thing but less plainly a few posts before...yeah I like it.

So I see. Whoops!

[Qazox]

What i had meant by MMQing was just a break in the discussion to bring up a need for the next set of rankings. That was it.

As for what i think worked/didn't work:

Worked: rivalry system worked for the most part as did the Divisional format.

Didn't work: Division championship, double-elimination playoffs (more suited to a Baptism of Iron maybe) and inter-division games.

[Colmark]

Obviously this was my first World Bowl and so I don't have previous experience with which to compare this, but I thought the tournament was extremely well run and I thoroughly enjoyed it. However, I do have IC and OOC objections to double elimination playoffs, which would in RL drag the tournament out to a length that only the Cricket World Cup believes acceptable and OOC I think it distorts the one off drama of playoffs somewhat.

I think the rivalry game, as well as the All Star Game have some promise to them as innovations, however they fall down on the fact that a rivalry game only works when there is a rivarly there and both sides RP, and the All Star game's selection process should probably be changed as outlined by others.

My final point is that in my opinion, part of the great part of a World Tournament, regardless of the sport, is the fact that all the nations are in the same country competing. Playing games with home advantage is for qualifiers. Making all games played in the host nation adds to the realism of the event, but it isn't that bigger deal and should be seen as a minor point.

Congratulations to Delaclava on winning and Bluth Corporation for an excellent job hosting, Colmark will be back for the next installment.

[The Fanboyists]

Evaluating this past World Bowl is not in any way "Monday Morning quarterbacking" the World Bowl. As Bluth mentioned, this World Bowl had several different features from other World Bowls. It was good to evaluate whether the features worked or are worth examining and refining.

Some of the issues that have come up, whether the complaints are timely or not, are issues that we need to keep in mind whenever someone puts in a bid to host a World Bowl. Some of them may very well alter the way we do things in the future.

As for discussion of the NFL, I agree with the above comment that it's time to take that conversation to TGs or General. You can debate the Redskins or the Colts there to your hearts content. Here is not the place.

Agreed; I'm done talking NFL here.

Seriously though, anyone have any thoughts on my inter-division play idea?

Ravens or Colts.
Sorry about the temporary semi-threadjack there. I'm done with that.

On to the matters at hand:
I think for inter-divisional play to work, the divisions themselves would have to be much smaller than our normal qualifying groups. They couldn't be more than perhaps three or four teams, or else the group stage, adding inter-divisional play, would become stupidly long, unless you only did, say, two inter-divisional games.

Either way, it seems like it would be a headache for a host to schedule, so if you're up to doing it in a hosting bid, go for it. But that should be, as usual, a host's choice. I know, since I'm likely to have a hosting bid for next World Bowl, that given the fact that I have just learned how to do a group draw, I would probably not do this.

I think it's a good idea, though, if you think you could pull it off. Certainly a good concept to play with, at the very least.

Also, Qaz, why would you say the division championship didn't work? I think it worked just fine, but some of the benefits were lost by having the double-elimination bracket, at least from an RPing standpoint; if a coach knows he has two shots at the playoffs, there's no reason not to rest the starters in a division championship (unless there is, as there was for Gogol division, a rivalry to be played in it) and save yourself for a playoff run. I think the division championship idea would be better if it were paired with the usual single-elimination playoff bracket. Beyond that, since it's effectively a playoff game, it effectively creates (for some teams) a triple-elimination playoff bracket, and it makes for rather long playoffs in the end.

I think the double-elimination bracket was one of the few things about this tournament that can't be refined in some way to make it better-suited for future World Bowls. The All-Star game, the division championships, the inter-divisional games, all can be refined pretty well. I think the intra-divisional rivalry system works as is, maybe a small amount of refinement necessary, but otherwise works well as-is.

But I do think that even from an OOC standpoint, a double-elimination (semi-triple-elimination in a few cases) playoff bracket does kill some of the RPing drama, and for the winner of the winner's bracket, kills their RPing momentum; there's a huge break OOC'ly (a couple of days can feel like eternity) involved for that team, and it's hard to come up with RPing material for three or four days without some sort of input from the hosts in a Sports RP, at least in my experience.

[The Babbage Islands]

Rankings, a few hours later than expected:

1    Delaclava             25.19
2    Bluth Corporation     22.19
3    Cassadaigua           20.41
4    F1-Insanity           20.34
5    Sarzonia              20.27
6    Whittoria             18.38
7    Qazox                 17.65
8    Andossa Se Mitrin Veg 17.25
9    Voltronica            16.25
10   Buffalostan           16.20
11   Allamunnic States     15.88
12   Rennidan              15.83
13   Osarius               15.42
14   Sibirsky              15.16
15   Krytenia              15.00
16   Lycrabon              14.73
17   German zerabithea     13.62
18   Dorian and Sonya      11.51
19   The Babbage Islands    9.88
20   Colmark                9.25
21   Newmanistan            8.65
22   Cosumar                7.50
23   Willink                7.27
24   Churchma               6.45
25   North Chicanan         6.35
26   D Land and Isles       5.77
27   Fujisawan Territories  5.65
28   Tarrentum              5.63
29   Sucrati                5.39
30   Karita                 5.00
31   Kagdazka and Pazhujeb  4.18
32   Tocrowkia              4.17
33   Carasatoga             4.09
34   Mytannion              3.94
35   Silver Beach           3.80
36   Teinohikira            3.67
37   Cakistan               3.51
38   Tutlingburg            3.48
39   Vephrall               3.13
40   The 24 Islands         3.07
41=  Calmerica              3.06
41=  Garon-Averia           3.06
41=  Spudulicks             3.06
44   Stuffed Taxidermists   3.02
45   Mossulia               2.77
46=  Meguroko               2.73
46=  Spitfyred1             2.73
46=  Swartaz                2.73
49=  Civil Citizenry        2.57
49=  ThumbTurtlia           2.57
51   Secristan              2.50
52   Freelasio              2.19
53   Scandavian States      2.08
54=  Boronia                1.88
54=  Missourian Rebels      1.88
54=  Wonderchicken          1.88
57   Narsora                1.82
58   Cheergirls             1.36
59   Angry College Student  1.35
60=  Al-Mumtaz              1.25
60=  Estnorden              1.25
60=  Jepstonia              1.25
60=  Saint-Alexandre        1.25
60=  Trivval                1.25
65   Central World Allianc  1.13
66   Celaa                  1.10
67   HellHorn               1.06
68=  Arteviaz               0.99
68=  The Holy Cathedral     0.99
70=  Arroza                 0.94
70=  Litharius              0.94
72=  Peace Republic         0.73
72=  Wadomia                0.73
74=  Ganjapolis             0.63
74=  Orlkjestad             0.63
74=  Tarsas                 0.63
77   Itailian Mafias        0.16

[The Babbage Islands]

On inter-divisional play: No, thank you. This is not the NFL or any single league, it's a world championship. It's all one field. The only reason for any kind of group stage is to reduce a large field to a manageable number. So-called divisions and the relationships between them really have meaning only in a more static structure like a national league.

On the map of the world: Impractical, unfortunately. Many of our nations are already on various regional maps, but there is no real way to link them without a donnybrook that could involve many nations outside NS Sports.

[Cassadaigua]

Both The Babbage Islands and The Fanboyists have accepted candidacy. Now it's time for the World Bowl Committee to decide who's the President and who's the Vice President. Send your votes to Cheergirls . The vote will end on March 3rd, in the AM.

[Sibirsky]

Even Dan Snyder, running the league's greediest operation (apart maybe from Jerry Jones) has only just managed to start losing attendance at Redskins games.

Dan Snyder holds that title. He gives greed a bad image.

[Qazox]

Also, Qaz, why would you say the division championship didn't work? I think it worked just fine, but some of the benefits were lost by having the double-elimination bracket, at least from an RPing standpoint; if a coach knows he has two shots at the playoffs, there's no reason not to rest the starters in a division championship (unless there is, as there was for Gogol division, a rivalry to be played in it) and save yourself for a playoff run. I think the division championship idea would be better if it were paired with the usual single-elimination playoff bracket. Beyond that, since it's effectively a playoff game, it effectively creates (for some teams) a triple-elimination playoff bracket, and it makes for rather long playoffs in the end..

Those are the reasons why the Division championship didn't work. the 2 teams that competed in it were already IN THE PLAYOFFS, why force them to play another Playoff Game? That's like forcing the #1/#2 Conference seeds in the NFL playoffs to play a 17th game before they have their bye week. Division Championships=Waste of time . AND like I predicted, both of the unbeatens LOST to their 2nd placed teams forcing them to play an extra game they should not have played.

Double elimination works best for small numbers of teams not an event with 45 teams and 24 playoff participants.

Inter-divisional games are equally useless. Why not just have a total round-robin format then? (everybody playes everybody else).

[German Zerabithea]

Rankings, a few hours later than expected:

1    Delaclava             25.19
2    Bluth Corporation     22.19
3    Cassadaigua           20.41
4    F1-Insanity           20.34
5    Sarzonia              20.27
6    Whittoria             18.38
7    Qazox                 17.65
8    Andossa Se Mitrin Veg 17.25
9    Voltronica            16.25
10   Buffalostan           16.20
11   Allamunnic States     15.88
12   Rennidan              15.83
13   Osarius               15.42
14   Sibirsky              15.16
15   Krytenia              15.00
16   Lycrabon              14.73
17   German zerabithea     13.62
18   Dorian and Sonya      11.51
19   The Babbage Islands    9.88
20   Colmark                9.25
21   Newmanistan            8.65
22   Cosumar                7.50
23   Willink                7.27
24   Churchma               6.45
25   North Chicanan         6.35
26   D Land and Isles       5.77
27   Fujisawan Territories  5.65
28   Tarrentum              5.63
29   Sucrati                5.39
30   Karita                 5.00
31   Kagdazka and Pazhujeb  4.18
32   Tocrowkia              4.17
33   Carasatoga             4.09
34   Mytannion              3.94
35   Silver Beach           3.80
36   Teinohikira            3.67
37   Cakistan               3.51
38   Tutlingburg            3.48
39   Vephrall               3.13
40   The 24 Islands         3.07
41=  Calmerica              3.06
41=  Garon-Averia           3.06
41=  Spudulicks             3.06
44   Stuffed Taxidermists   3.02
45   Mossulia               2.77
46=  Meguroko               2.73
46=  Spitfyred1             2.73
46=  Swartaz                2.73
49=  Civil Citizenry        2.57
49=  ThumbTurtlia           2.57
51   Secristan              2.50
52   Freelasio              2.19
53   Scandavian States      2.08
54=  Boronia                1.88
54=  Missourian Rebels      1.88
54=  Wonderchicken          1.88
57   Narsora                1.82
58   Cheergirls             1.36
59   Angry College Student  1.35
60=  Al-Mumtaz              1.25
60=  Estnorden              1.25
60=  Jepstonia              1.25
60=  Saint-Alexandre        1.25
60=  Trivval                1.25
65   Central World Allianc  1.13
66   Celaa                  1.10
67   HellHorn               1.06
68=  Arteviaz               0.99
68=  The Holy Cathedral     0.99
70=  Arroza                 0.94
70=  Litharius              0.94
72=  Peace Republic         0.73
72=  Wadomia                0.73
74=  Ganjapolis             0.63
74=  Orlkjestad             0.63
74=  Tarsas                 0.63
77   Itailian Mafias        0.16

Woo! top 20! Go me

[The Fanboyists]

*Snipping Own Post For Space*

Those are the reasons why the Division championship didn't work. the 2 teams that competed in it were already IN THE PLAYOFFS, why force them to play another Playoff Game? That's like forcing the #1/#2 Conference seeds in the NFL playoffs to play a 17th game before they have their bye week. Division Championships=Waste of time . AND like I predicted, both of the unbeatens LOST to their 2nd placed teams forcing them to play an extra game they should not have played.

I see your point, but I think it's certainly one of the more workable things that was tested here. It might not be an every-World Bowl thing, but it's not like those same results will always play out. Especially if one were to do a limited number of non-divisional games, then it might matter a little more and be a little more worthwhile. I'd say their an overall-neutral thing; they're not a bad addition, but they're not really necessary, and don't really enhance the operation of the tournament. On the other hand, they do provide an RP opportunity. They especially don't have the same issue of redundancy or fouling up the playoff deal if it's for a first-round-BYE in a single-elimination format.

That said, it will have more merit if groups remain at their normal size (roughly six to eight per group) rather than shrink (below six group members, there's really no point). That's mostly because the more teams you put in, the more convoluted tie-breakers are multi-way ties can occur for the top. It nearly happened to me once, and I'd love to make sure that it never happens to anyone, that you get boxed out the playoffs because Margaret didn't let you score enough points, and you get pushed out behind two teams that have the exact same record as you, both overall and Head-to-Head.

Double elimination works best for small numbers of teams not an event with 45 teams and 24 playoff participants.

That was basically my point, although you put a lot more concisely. With a team as large as the World Bowl, a double-elimination playoff takes far too long. It's probably the only aspect of this tournament that I would just as soon never see used after this for the World Bowl.

Inter-divisional games are equally useless. Why not just have a total round-robin format then? (everybody playes everybody else).

Because having inter-divisional games (or non-divisional games) doesn't have to mean that everyone plays against everybody else; what you proposed as the alternative for that to have the same effect (total round-robin) would take a stupidly long time. But if one were to do...say, five-team groups in double round-robin, one could then schedule, say, two non-divisional games, for ten total qualification games, which is on the higher end of the normal number of qualifying games played, but still within what is the usual range (in my experience, at least; perhaps it has been more at some point from World Bowl 0 to World Bowl 6).

They're certainly not necessary, and they don't make the tournament run any smoother, to be sure, but there's no reason a host shouldn't include them if they feel like they can pull it off sufficiently. It's another one that goes either way (good or bad) depending on how well it's implemented. To be sure, I certainly wouldn't include them in a hosting bid, at least not now, but I've only just learned how to do group draws and make up schedules. In that sort of situation, it's stupid to add further complexity to something like that. But if one is an experienced host (say, you, Sarz, Newmanistan, Cass, TBI, or Bluth, for instance), it certainly wouldn't detract from the RP'ers experience if the host was willing and able to do it.

To restate, I think the only thing that we've seen is just completely impractical to be used again for the World Bowl (in roughly its current state) is a double-elimination playoff bracket, and that's due to size. If for some reason the World Bowl shrunk (not that I think it will, and I hope it doesn't), then even that would become practical.

So good job to Bluth on making all these variables and new things run smoothly, and letting everyone test out and see how they work out, so that we can actually discuss these things informedly.

A question, TBI, since I'm not sure how the rankings are arrived at or done, but I'm sort of confused about how I can finish third overall and still not be in the top-ten and ranked below someone I beat three times and tied once against. I'm not complaining (it doesn't really bother me), but I'm sort of confused about how that works out.

[The Babbage Islands]

A question, TBI, since I'm not sure how the rankings are arrived at or done, but I'm sort of confused about how I can finish third overall and still not be in the top-ten and ranked below someone I beat three times and tied once against. I'm not complaining (it doesn't really bother me), but I'm sort of confused about how that works out.

I'll check when I get home. But a couple of possibilities stick out:

1. The rankings use winning percentages, not caring who the wins and losses were against.

2. The other team may have enough points from the last two WBs to negate any advantage you might have had this time.

3. The ratings-keeper screwed up. Low-probability, but possible

[Cheergirls]

Both The Babbage Islands and The Fanboyists have accepted candidacy. Now it's time for the World Bowl Committee to decide who's the President and who's the Vice President. Send your votes to Cheergirls . The vote will end on March 3rd, in the AM.

I just want to clarify that voting to reopen the nomination process is also an option in this vote.

[North Orus]

Any chance I can join this???

[Krytenia]

Any chance I can join this???

No need to ask, my friend; the signups for World Bowl 14 will be up...sometime...and you just need to sign up there.

[The Fanboyists]

Any chance I can join this???

No need to ask, my friend; the signups for World Bowl 14 will be up...sometime...and you just need to sign up there.

In about six to eight weeks, as a guideline.

[Voltronica]

Rankings, a few hours later than expected:

1    Delaclava             25.19
2    Bluth Corporation     22.19
3    Cassadaigua           20.41
4    F1-Insanity           20.34
5    Sarzonia              20.27
6    Whittoria             18.38
7    Qazox                 17.65
8    Andossa Se Mitrin Veg 17.25
9    Voltronica            16.25
10   Buffalostan           16.20
11   Allamunnic States     15.88
12   Rennidan              15.83
13   Osarius               15.42
14   Sibirsky              15.16
15   Krytenia              15.00
16   Lycrabon              14.73
17   German zerabithea     13.62
18   Dorian and Sonya      11.51
19   The Babbage Islands    9.88
20   Colmark                9.25
21   Newmanistan            8.65
22   Cosumar                7.50
23   Willink                7.27
24   Churchma               6.45
25   North Chicanan         6.35
26   D Land and Isles       5.77
27   Fujisawan Territories  5.65
28   Tarrentum              5.63
29   Sucrati                5.39
30   Karita                 5.00
31   Kagdazka and Pazhujeb  4.18
32   Tocrowkia              4.17
33   Carasatoga             4.09
34   Mytannion              3.94
35   Silver Beach           3.80
36   Teinohikira            3.67
37   Cakistan               3.51
38   Tutlingburg            3.48
39   Vephrall               3.13
40   The 24 Islands         3.07
41=  Calmerica              3.06
41=  Garon-Averia           3.06
41=  Spudulicks             3.06
44   Stuffed Taxidermists   3.02
45   Mossulia               2.77
46=  Meguroko               2.73
46=  Spitfyred1             2.73
46=  Swartaz                2.73
49=  Civil Citizenry        2.57
49=  ThumbTurtlia           2.57
51   Secristan              2.50
52   Freelasio              2.19
53   Scandavian States      2.08
54=  Boronia                1.88
54=  Missourian Rebels      1.88
54=  Wonderchicken          1.88
57   Narsora                1.82
58   Cheergirls             1.36
59   Angry College Student  1.35
60=  Al-Mumtaz              1.25
60=  Estnorden              1.25
60=  Jepstonia              1.25
60=  Saint-Alexandre        1.25
60=  Trivval                1.25
65   Central World Allianc  1.13
66   Celaa                  1.10
67   HellHorn               1.06
68=  Arteviaz               0.99
68=  The Holy Cathedral     0.99
70=  Arroza                 0.94
70=  Litharius              0.94
72=  Peace Republic         0.73
72=  Wadomia                0.73
74=  Ganjapolis             0.63
74=  Orlkjestad             0.63
74=  Tarsas                 0.63
77   Itailian Mafias        0.16

woot I moved up two spots!! WOOT #9!

[Sarzonia]

Even Dan Snyder, running the league's greediest operation (apart maybe from Jerry Jones) has only just managed to start losing attendance at Redskins games.

Dan Snyder holds that title. He gives greed a bad image.

As much as I love bashing The Danny, it does not belong here. Please take it to TGs or General. Thanking you.

[Cassadaigua]

The vote for World Bowl Committee President will end tomorrow so if you haven't voted yet and you are a member of the Committee, today is your last chance. Voter turnout has been pretty good though.

Send your vote, if you haven't already, to my puppet Cheergirls.