The World Bowl Discussion Thread (OOC)

[Bluth Corporation]

Bluth vs. the NO Saints or the NY Jets...

Satans and Gliders but no mention of the Traitors?

[The Fanboyists]

Bluth vs. the NO Saints or the NY Jets...

Satans and Gliders but no mention of the Traitors?

Never thought I'd hear you admitting what the Colts really are. At least those are the only Traitors I know of...

[Sarzonia]

As a response to Buffalostan's points, here is my take on the issues he addresses:

1. As I mentioned earlier, a personal emergency combined with a death in my family prevented me from having Internet access during the period that should have been used to respond to issues regarding Bluth's bid. I have a feeling that if I had Internet access during that time, I would have parsed the "all matches played in Bluth Corporation" thing as a bone of contention. I know that some people don't really care, but for me, it's a big enough problem that it would tip the balance if two competing bids are otherwise equal.

2. Personally, I have some doubts about the concept behind inter- and intradivision rivalries. In retrospect, it might have made more sense for me to have been paired with Delaclava in the intradivision rivalry than with Krytenia, owing to the extreme closeness of our countries ICly, but the idea of having an interdivision rivalry match that counts for only one match of two just strikes me as being a little bit odd. Having said that, I might like that concept a little better if the interdivision rivals play each other twice instead of once, perhaps once after the first half of the group stage and the second time after the second half of the group stage.

3. I really find the concept of the All Star Game as being one that's too hard to really RP. I mean, who gets to RP the result or what their respective player did or which player wins MVP? The idea is fun; the execution is a bit too difficult to really pull off well.

4. Again, having ALL matches in the home nation just doesn't work for me as a RP'er. In a smaller tournament that could be used as a demonstration for a new sport, sure. But in a larger tournament, I find it too problematic. As far as ties during group stage matches is concerned, I don't mind them if there's a single overtime period that doesn't produce a score. If there's no overtime, I don't like the concept at all. I also don't like double-elimination knockout rounds or division championship games UNLESS the two teams are level on all tiebreakers.

5. I agree with Buffalostan (oh the SHOCK!) that hosts should use much larger RP bonuses. It would likely have been another bone of contention for me in Bluth's bid if I had a chance to really peruse the details. I also agree with him (and try to type this over the din of the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse) that Bluth did a fine job providing IC information about his country.

[Voltronica]

The best parts from my perspective was the rivalries, the division titles, and then the advancement of div title winners.

A)rivalries---I liked having a bit of control if only modest at who was in my division of play and a modest control of one outside of division game...Id say this part of the equation was the most successful. However, I think it would be better to have less divisional play and have maybe three outside of division games against an A ranked team a B rank team and a C or worse team as outside games.

B) Div titles---second most controversial...but if you look to my and F1's game it did what it was supposed to do. two teams with virtually the same W-L record split by only 6 point differential. Instead of relying on the boring "computers" to resolve the situation it allowed another test of who was actually better on the field at the end of group play which should be the team worthy of that second spot...all though I got wanked with bad luck and lost 2 consecutive games in the playoffs. It caused more RPability with high tension.

C) AoDW---It gave the feel of the real NFL...now i do not support the losers bracket of this equation so don't get the two confused as they are entirely separate things.

[The Babbage Islands]

A couple of thoughts, without rehashing my earlier posts:

• Rivalry games are mostly a bad idea. I understand why some like them, and concede that if I had a gridiron rival my feelings might be different. But from a technical perspective the idea of "inter-division" rivalries is seriously flawed. It means that teams playing within a group for the same limited number of advancements from the group no longer play the same opposition.
• Double-elimination is okay, although a better bracket should be found. But just as ten group stage matches -- nine-plus weeks IC -- is too long to RP comfortably all matches being played in the host nation, so also a 24-team double-elimination bracket is too long IC for such RP in the knockout stage.

Overall, well done to Bluth for his hosting.

[Cassadaigua]

At the end of the nomination process, only two candidates received the necessary two nominations:
The Babbage Islands (3 nominations)
The Fanboyists (Allamunnic States) (2 nominations)
Four nations received one nomination.

Before I begin taking the vote, I would like for both The Babbage Islands and Allamunnic States to declare that they are indeed interested in the position of World Bowl President by posting that interest here on the thread. Keep in mind that if you both have the interest, since the vote is only between the two of you, one of you will be President and the other will be Vice President.

[The Fanboyists]

...before I confirm willingness for the position, I do have a question: when will the vote be, and so the beginnings of responsibilities for the next World Bowl President? I'll have to double-check the responsibilities, but depending on the time-frame, I may or may not have the necessary time to do it. If it works in such a way that I can do the job well, then consider me willing to do it.

I didn't realize that I was getting nominated, though, or that nominations were happening.

[The Babbage Islands]

...before I confirm willingness for the position, I do have a question: when will the vote be, and so the beginnings of responsibilities for the next World Bowl President? I'll have to double-check the responsibilities, but depending on the time-frame, I may or may not have the necessary time to do it. If it works in such a way that I can do the job well, then consider me willing to do it.

I have your back if you have mine. Together we can handle whatever comes.

I don't foresee any reason that I could not perform the generally light duties of World Bowl President. My wife's condition continues to improve, although the possibility of relapse is ever-present and she is still often weak. But the past year has taught rather forcefully that it is the unforeseeable that will rise up to bite you on occasion.

That's why a president has a vice-president. I'm in, and I hope you can be as well.

[Sibirsky]

I wish her to get well soon TBI.

For the longest time I though you were a female before I learned your name was Gl a common male name.

[German Zerabithea]

I liked the rivalry thing personalty, I can see the issues that arise from it, but I had been waiting for some time to play against Osarius, and now maybe we have a better chance of meeting again and become regular rivals. Though after proving unbeatable to Sibirsky and forcing him to the loser bracket, I think he might like a rematch.

[Bluth Corporation]

2. Personally, I have some doubts about the concept behind inter- and intradivision rivalries. In retrospect, it might have made more sense for me to have been paired with Delaclava in the intradivision rivalry than with Krytenia, owing to the extreme closeness of our countries ICly, but the idea of having an interdivision rivalry match that counts for only one match of two just strikes me as being a little bit odd. Having said that, I might like that concept a little better if the interdivision rivals play each other twice instead of once, perhaps once after the first half of the group stage and the second time after the second half of the group stage.

Obviously, the need to maintain competitive balance across all the divisions is going to limit the field of potential intra-divisional rivals one can name if this is something that is carried on into future World Bowls (it certainly would have prevented you and Delaclava from being placed in the same group, for instance). I limited it to one inter-divisional rivalry to try and find a balance between finding a way for teams that are too closely matched to be drawn into the same division but who are very real rivals to play each other on the one hand, and not excessively upsetting the competitive balance across the divisions on the other hand

5. I agree with Buffalostan (oh the SHOCK!) that hosts should use much larger RP bonuses. It would likely have been another bone of contention for me in Bluth's bid if I had a chance to really peruse the details.

Yes, that was a choice I came to regret as time went on.

I also agree with him (and try to type this over the din of the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse) that Bluth did a fine job providing IC information about his country.

Really? I thought what I provided was rather minimal (brief descriptions of the stadiums and a general sense of our cultural affinities). Certainly, it's something I hope to do better should I ever host in the future.

Also, the All-Star game was more an "It seems like a cool idea, it gives something to look at during the off-day that is usually taken up by the third-place game; I'm not sure how it'll play out, but it's not going to hurt anything so I'll throw it in" kind of thing. The suggestions on the voting process are certainly spot-on, and in fact are much more akin to how the NFL handles Pro Bowl balloting.

If it's continued in the future, I think an All-Star game should include voting for individual players, one for each team, to handle RPing their respective teams. The problem is keeping track of the various RP permissions for each player selected.

[Bluth Corporation]

A couple of thoughts, without rehashing my earlier posts:

• Rivalry games are mostly a bad idea. I understand why some like them, and concede that if I had a gridiron rival my feelings might be different. But from a technical perspective the idea of "inter-division" rivalries is seriously flawed. It means that teams playing within a group for the same limited number of advancements from the group no longer play the same opposition.
• Double-elimination is okay, although a better bracket should be found. But just as ten group stage matches -- nine-plus weeks IC -- is too long to RP comfortably all matches being played in the host nation, so also a 24-team double-elimination bracket is too long IC for such RP in the knockout stage.

It's also a bit long OOC. Nearly a week longer (not counting off days) than the next-longest one (World Bowl VI, 18 days of competition).

[Bluth Corporation]

3. Of the novel elements of this tournament, I think the least successful was the idea of the inter-divisional rivalry. It meant introducing a non-seeded element to group stage standings, and only had meaning for pairings where, by the end of group stage play, both teams were still RPing. To be honest, if teams are desperate to play one-off encounters with close rivals, they might be better off privately arranging a friendly (though I'm sure no one wants to see the World Bowl go the way of the World Cup in this regard).

I get what you're saying; but where I disagree is because friendly games are just that--friendly. There's nothing at stake. Rivalries are always more intense and more enjoyable when they're for something that matters.

[F1-Insanity]

My feelings about the setup of the recent World Bowl

1.rivalries are fun, and I back the idea of having two such games instead of one. Though I do understand that those without a 'serious' rivalry may disagree
2. have to admit that the 'double elimination' and the 'loser bracket' haven't grow on me as a concept, though I did vote for this bid so I was for trying it out, prefer a return to knock-out (lose and you are out, period) style tournament after group games
3. is the World Bowl holder seeded 1st?
4. support the idea of a slightly larger RP bonus
5. generally I feel that the World Bowl might have to be reduced in # of participants, but can certainly live with keeping this number if returned to 'regular' knock out tournament phase
6. as for the all star game, I just never had the time to review each and every RP and roster. I saw someone posted the idea of nominating your own players, and then that others could vote for those. That would be easier for me, but it is not all about me of course

[Qazox]

Enough of the Monday-morning-Quarterbacking of the host for now.


We need ranks done by whomever can do them.

[The Babbage Islands]

Enough of the Monday-morning-Quarterbacking of the host for now.


We need ranks done by whomever can do them.

Where else in NS Sports but the WB discussion thread would you expect to see expert Monday-morning quarterbacking?

When I get home tonight I'll have a go at the ranks.

[The Fanboyists]

...before I confirm willingness for the position, I do have a question: when will the vote be, and so the beginnings of responsibilities for the next World Bowl President? I'll have to double-check the responsibilities, but depending on the time-frame, I may or may not have the necessary time to do it. If it works in such a way that I can do the job well, then consider me willing to do it.

I have your back if you have mine. Together we can handle whatever comes.

I don't foresee any reason that I could not perform the generally light duties of World Bowl President. My wife's condition continues to improve, although the possibility of relapse is ever-present and she is still often weak. But the past year has taught rather forcefully that it is the unforeseeable that will rise up to bite you on occasion.

That's why a president has a vice-president. I'm in, and I hope you can be as well.

Absolutely. Cass just reminded/informed me of the details, and I think that even if the shift to college goes a little less pleasantly than expected, I should be able to do whatever job required of me quite well, be it as pres or vice-pres. Got your back, TBI.

On a more lulzy note, I see Bluth has no answer for my observation on the Indianapolis Mayflower Vans... the Indianapolis Turncoats...(trying again) the Indianapolis Colts... sorry, the Baltimore Colts' state of morality and standing with the powers of good. I consider this a victory. I win, you raging Hoosier! Long live Baltimore! Admit defeat to the Old Line State and our crabcake-making glory!
...says the guy who's probably going to college in Indiana...

[Bluth Corporation]

Enough of the Monday-morning-Quarterbacking of the host for now.

I don't mind. There were a lot of innovations in this tournament. We need to discuss how well we thought they worked and how much we enjoyed them so we can have an idea of what to keep, what to modify, and what to throw out for future editions.

In fact, if Buffalostan hadn't started it with his post I was going to.

[Bluth Corporation]

How many new stadiums did Johnny Unitas build? Did anyone even go to Colts games in Baltimore after Bert Jones left for LA? I mean, it was bad enough there that John Elway would have preferred to play baseball rather than go to Baltimore!

Also: 0-8-1. Need I say more?

[The Fanboyists]

How many new stadiums did Johnny Unitas build? Did anyone even go to Colts games in Baltimore after Bert Jones left for LA? I mean, it was bad enough there that John Elway would have preferred to play baseball rather than go to Baltimore!

Also: 0-8-1. Need I say more?

So? The Redskins have been that bad quite frequently and they've never left Washington. Same goes for the Buffalo Bills. And the New England Patriots used to be trash too. The Lions are still trash, and always have been and they're still in Detroit, the most depopulated city in America! Even the Cleveland Browns--* Oh, oops.

Not our city and state's fault that the team imploded after years of good play. I don't see anyone saying that Indianapolis played in "the greatest game ever played". That was management's fault. They should have done more to keep their city's interest. Every other owner in the league doesn't seem to have a problem with doing that. Even Dan Snyder, running the league's greediest operation (apart maybe from Jerry Jones) has only just managed to start losing attendance at Redskins games. It's not the people that seem to have a problem with it; Ravens games are as well-attended as any in the league, even in the years when they're actually bad. The only city that has managed to lose teams consistantly was LA, and that's because it's a cesspit city in Southern California. (The stricken word made the second part of the sentence redundant, if you were wondering.)

And in any event, the way they left has way more to do with it. If you're going to move, you make a formal announcement, and you do the deed. You don't leave in the middle of the night, unannounced, in a moving van, leaving everyone to wake up the next morning to realize that their team that they've been watching for decades has simply left.

I'll admit I wasn't actually alive when it happened, but if the Ravens left now, or even if the Redskins (even though they suck right now) left, I'd be pretty damn pissed. Hell, if the Orioles left (and I don't particularly care for the MLB all that much), I'd be furious. If Indy wanted a team, they could have had an expansion team, instead of taking another city's team with a history in the city of their creation. And it does still piss me off that a freakin' loophole keeps Baltimore from being able to lay claim to the accomplishments that their team won while there.

It's all (the current) Irsay's fault, too; I can't even actually bring myself to hate the Colts the way I should, because he operates the team exactly how a good owner should run a team, from a building perspective.

*I forgot that the Browns can do quite well in any city provided it's not Cleveland. See: the Baltimore Ravens. Sorry, Cleveland, but you're the Mistake by the Lake. Then again, every team can do well when they aren't required to play their home games in that shithole.

Sorry. Statist/citist rant over.

But next time the Ravens come to town...careful, or the Colts might just start wanting to come home...

[Bluth Corporation]

When was the last time they beat Indy?

[The Fanboyists]

When was the last time they beat Indy?

Doesn't matter. Whenever their last win over Indy was has no bearing on whether or not they'll beat them the next time.

It doesn't hurt our chances that we can actually run the ball like a normal kickass team, instead of relying on passing all the time. Remember: real men run the ball. And real teams pulp opponents with their big men in the front. The quarterback's just another variable; the key is always in the big men. Always. And our are better, at the moment.

Also, we're capable of beating the New York Hot-Air Balloons. And we only lose to Super Bowl teams. Don't feel bad; next year it'll be your turn to watch us win a championship!

[Newmanistan]

I voiced my major concerns of this World Bowl's format during the competition, so I really don't have much to add at this point. That said, with the structure he put in place, I thought Bluth did a better job then Marvin Harrison's receiving ability that made Peyton look so good.

(I'm kidding with that, though I have always been a fan of Harrison's.... great job Bluth)

[Qazox]

OVerall Bluth did a good job with this torurney.

[Whittoria]

As far as inter-divisional play goes, what if we had something like this:

The regular group stage (round robin or double round robin, whatever tickles your fancy as a host) uninterrupted

Evenly divided groups, each with a member near the top of the rankings and descending in order to a player near the bottom of the rankings (like a group with rankings of #1, #10, #19, #28, #37, and so on, or a different measure distancing the strength of group members evenly). For World bowls with participants that won't add up, this will be difficult, maybe impossible.

Play 3 out of division games: One against a strong opponent (high rank) one against an average opponent (middle of the rankings) and one against a team that is either new or not so good (near the bottom, this would allow newer/weaker teams to gauge how well they'd perform against a stronger opponent; whether this is a good idea or not is up for debate, but I personally like the idea).

You could then schedule so that the first two games would be out of division, then play an uninterrupted division schedule and have an out of division game at the end of the schedule before the playoffs. If you wanted to have rivalries like this past World Bowl, you could make it the last week of the season (unless your rival is already in your division, in which case you'd play one of the three strengthed teams that you weren't already scheduled for. Sometimes that happens).

Just an idea to throw out there. If I ever make a host bid it will probably be something like that. When TBI posts the newest rankings I'll do a sample draw to give you all a better idea of what I mean by the evenly strengthed groups.

Also, now that I'm becoming more proficient in Photoshop and Illustrator I'm going to be able to make some ballin' assed uniforms.

Also also, do you think we could get a map created of where everyone is in relation to each other in the world? I'm thinking of having a small, regional tournament for national teams--nothing to rival the World Bowl, something small and fun to do in the offseason and I'd like to get an idea of how far away we are from each other. It could also spark some regional rivalries that could carry over into the World Bowl

Bluth did a good job running the tournament as well, hats off to ya brother.

And while we're at it, I think Peyton is a great quarterback with impeccable form, and excellent decision making in his ability to read a defense.