The World Bowl Discussion Thread (OOC)

[Buffalostan]

Has anyone else received nominations for the All Star Game that don't make sense? So far out of all the starters on my team people have nominated a back-up who didn't really see the field, my Defensive Ends coach as a player, and someone who isn't even on my roster. I know this seems kinda bad seeing as how I haven't finished my all star vote, but is anyone having a similar experience?

Sure, I thought it was odd that having RPed about four of my OL starters, the one I didn't RP about got picked, or that my running back who had a good tournament didn't while the guy who had a bad tournament and got cut did - but it's difficult to second guess people's votes. Some people didn't seem to base their choices on RPs but rather on results, random picks from rosters, or other reasons. My ballot was explicitly an OOC vote, at least one other ballot was explicitly an IC vote.

Still makes more sense than a few of the Pro Bowl selections!

[German Zerabithea]

Has anyone else received nominations for the All Star Game that don't make sense? So far out of all the starters on my team people have nominated a back-up who didn't really see the field, my Defensive Ends coach as a player, and someone who isn't even on my roster. I know this seems kinda bad seeing as how I haven't finished my all star vote, but is anyone having a similar experience?

Sure, I thought it was odd that having RPed about four of my OL starters, the one I didn't RP about got picked, or that my running back who had a good tournament didn't while the guy who had a bad tournament and got cut did - but it's difficult to second guess people's votes. Some people didn't seem to base their choices on RPs but rather on results, random picks from rosters, or other reasons. My ballot was explicitly an OOC vote, at least one other ballot was explicitly an IC vote.

Still makes more sense than a few of the Pro Bowl selections!

Yea, I had my RB nominated, even though I don't think I actually rp him. I was more of a passing team this bowl. I will admit though, the guys I nominated for defense, came from what other people nominated.

[Bluth Corporation]

I am cross-checking ballots with rosters to make sure they match up with both the player existing and being at the right position (with some leeway--a nominal wide receiver or cornerback, for example, being selected as a kick returner or a WR/CB/LB as a special teams specialist is of course reasonable).

I do have votes tallied for Team Novgorod, and will have Team Muscovy done in another hour so, with the teams to be posted shortly after that.

[Delaclava]

I had forgotten about that little thing with the World Bowl finalists and the All-Star game. Didn't think I'd actually get that far!

[Whittoria]

I am cross-checking ballots with rosters to make sure they match up with both the player existing and being at the right position (with some leeway--a nominal wide receiver or cornerback, for example, being selected as a kick returner or a WR/CB/LB as a special teams specialist is of course reasonable).

I do have votes tallied for Team Novgorod, and will have Team Muscovy done in another hour so, with the teams to be posted shortly after that.

Makes sense. My only concern would be that it seems my back-up defensive tackle, Shawn Garrett, has been voted in over the starter, Matt Freeman. Seeing as how my team runs a 3 man front, Garrett wouldn't have really seen the field much unless that's how people have been RPing. In all the ones I checked though I never found mention of either's name save for maybe one (not including mine). But it is what it is, I reckon.

From now on though I'll make sure that my coaching staff and roster are color coordinated and in large fonts, and I'll put it in every post

[Newmanistan]

Nothing against the concept of the all-star game, but to think that people would get their spots on merit based on what was RP'ed is a little unrealistic. Over the weekend I began nominating people but just found it to be too much of a chore and stopped. This would probably be easier in a sport like baseball where there are less positions and it's easier to decipher what players are doing what. It's a fun concept, but we have to take it for what it is, too.

[Buffalostan]

If it's done in future WBs (speculation, not advocacy), it would probably make more sense for the host to pick them. The host is likely the only player who will read everyone's RPs and therefore have the requisite understanding to put together a sensible slate.

Anyway, Bluth has requested I scorinate his final game(s)* against Delaclava. The highly notional cutoff is therefore to be moved six hours earlier, to 0000 UTC (1800 CST).

Good luck to both teams.

*Until I looked double elimination up on Wikipedia a reputable academic source on modern sports organization I hadn't actually kenned as to why a second game might be needed. For anyone else: the second game will only be played if Delaclava, who has thus far not lost in the playoffs and thus wouldn't have been 'doubly eliminated', loses the first game.

[Voltronica]

Nothing against the concept of the all-star game, but to think that people would get their spots on merit based on what was RP'ed is a little unrealistic. Over the weekend I began nominating people but just found it to be too much of a chore and stopped. This would probably be easier in a sport like baseball where there are less positions and it's easier to decipher what players are doing what. It's a fun concept, but we have to take it for what it is, too.

work...ewwww get it away....

[Sibirsky]

World Bowl XIII All-Star Game Result
Team Novgorod 82 - Team Muscovy 76

The football players were playing basketball, it seems.

[Voltronica]

World Bowl XIII All-Star Game Result
Team Novgorod 82 - Team Muscovy 76

The football players were playing basketball, it seems.

wow...thats the highest scoring game ive ever seen in foot ball.

[TBI Foreign Service]

I think that a future all-star game or team selection in any sport might benefit from tweaking the nomination process. Let each player nominate a given number of their own players to the all-star ballot, either with their rosters (preferred) or by a later post up to halfway through the first stage. Then a ballot list is compiled and people can vote for players likely to be relied upon by their teams.

[Bluth Corporation]

I did say I'd just be making up numbers; I did it as a parody of Pro Bowl scores, which are themselves typically inflated because of the rule changes favoring offense.

[Sibirsky]

I think that a future all-star game or team selection in any sport might benefit from tweaking the nomination process. Let each player nominate a given number of their own players to the all-star ballot, either with their rosters (preferred) or by a later post up to halfway through the first stage. Then a ballot list is compiled and people can vote for players likely to be relied upon by their teams.

I like this idea.

[Qazox]

For anyone interested... I have cleaned up (a bit) the World Bowl wikipage and have created a Baptism of Iron one as well. The BoI 7 page will be done shortly, and the Playoff portion for WB13 will be worked on as well.

As a service to those who are on NSwiki (instead of Wikistates); I will be copying the World Bowl main page on there, but will put links to the individual tourneys back to the Wikistates pages instead of copying every one. I hope to have this done sometime tonight.

[Sibirsky]

Thank you Qazox for your good work.

And congratulations to Delaclava!

[Bluth Corporation]

Thanks to Buffalostan for scorinating my last few games!

[Delaclava]

Thanks to Bluth Corporation and Buffalostan for hosting, and Qazox for his wikifying work.

I also would like to apologize the RPers that made it into the later rounds. I know randomness is the breaks of NSSports, but the title deserved to go to someone more active.

[Buffalostan]

As a service to those who are on NSwiki (instead of Wikistates); I will be copying the World Bowl main page on there, but will put links to the individual tourneys back to the Wikistates pages instead of copying every one.

I suspect that's a GFDL violation, and you'd need to use original text.

[Qazox]

As a service to those who are on NSwiki (instead of Wikistates); I will be copying the World Bowl main page on there, but will put links to the individual tourneys back to the Wikistates pages instead of copying every one.

I suspect that's a GFDL violation, and you'd need to use original text.

No it's not. There's precedent for it (notably the World Cup of hockey pages). AND since it's MY work, I'm not going to complain.

Also Congrats to Delaclava for winning, and becoming the 2nd straight BoI and WB champ. I'll hopefully have the World Bowl page done tommorrow.

[The Fanboyists]

It's quite fine. I'll get you next time, though.

Good job, Bluth, for hosting a smooth tournament, and congrats, Del!

...now when's the next one?

[Bluth Corporation]

As a service to those who are on NSwiki (instead of Wikistates); I will be copying the World Bowl main page on there, but will put links to the individual tourneys back to the Wikistates pages instead of copying every one.

I suspect that's a GFDL violation, and you'd need to use original text.

DIrect copy-and-paste would be a GFDL violation, since doing so destroys attribution and there are indeed individuals besides Qazox (including myself, Taeshan, Sarzonia, Civil Citizenry, Tocrowkia, and Arroza) who have contributed the page. At the very least, you'd have to get permission from every single person who's contributed to release you, or else copy over a version that has removed any and every trace of the contributions made by someone who refused permission or could not be contacted--it's harder than it sounds. It's the same reason we don't allow people to copy-and-paste templates directly from Wikipedia onto WikiStates.

Sorry, but you'll probably need to contact the NSWiki staff to import it for you.

[Buffalostan]

As a little post mortem, a few random thoughts:

1. Bluth was correct that most of the questions about his bid could, and probably should, have been brought up during the bid and voting process. If we are not going to question people making bids, there is simply no point going through a voting process. So in future I hope due scrutiny is applied to all bids.

2. Of the novel elements of this tournament, I think the most successful was probably the idea of an All-Star Game, although as already discussed by others the vote results left a little to be desired. (It wasn't Bluth's fault that so few complete ballots were submitted.) There's no reason such selections have to become the norm for the World Bowl, but if future bids use the idea, I'd support a revision of the nomination/voting procedure. Also, there didn't prove to be much point having an actual 'game' if the whole point was simply 'nerh nerh the Pro Bowl's stupid'.

3. Of the novel elements of this tournament, I think the least successful was the idea of the inter-divisional rivalry. It meant introducing a non-seeded element to group stage standings, and only had meaning for pairings where, by the end of group stage play, both teams were still RPing. To be honest, if teams are desperate to play one-off encounters with close rivals, they might be better off privately arranging a friendly (though I'm sure no one wants to see the World Bowl go the way of the World Cup in this regard).

4. I have no opinion on scheduling all games in the host nation versus having home/road games during the group stage. Same goes for group stage ties. Same goes for double elimination brackets for the playoffs. Same goes for intra-divisional rivalries. Same goes for the Division Championship - although ICly, I don't think it makes sense, I can't really see it being OOCly unfair.

5. In my opinion, future hosts should use much larger RP bonuses. 5 points, when top nations are ranked with 20+ points, is really too small and it was honestly not much of a surprise that so few new nations made it to the playoffs, and that the final was held between the top 2 ranked nations. 3 and 4, Cassadaigua and Sarzonia, would have had to earn maximum RP bonus just to equal the ranking of Bluth/Del with a minimum RP bonus; the BoI winner, Willink, would have still been ranked outside the top 24 (i.e. playoff qualifiers) had they earned maximum RP bonus.

6. Bluth did a good job of providing IC information about his nation to help roleplayers get more involved. I hope more bids do this in future; it's really the primary responsibility of hosts but is sometimes completely ignored.

[The Fanboyists]

2. Of the novel elements of this tournament, I think the most successful was probably the idea of an All-Star Game, although as already discussed by others the vote results left a little to be desired. (It wasn't Bluth's fault that so few complete ballots were submitted.) There's no reason such selections have to become the norm for the World Bowl, but if future bids use the idea, I'd support a revision of the nomination/voting procedure. Also, there didn't prove to be much point having an actual 'game' if the whole point was simply 'nerh nerh the Pro Bowl's stupid'.

I'd have to disagree, slightly. I'd say the most successful aspect was the (intra?)-divisional rivalry. Or whichever one was the 'inside-the-division' one. I liked being able to select a rival for the group stage, personally. I think the All-Star game didn't offer a whole lot, given the lack of involvement; it was a good idea, but I'm not sure it works well-enough in such a way to be reintroduced into future hosting bids for the World Bowl. RPing it is a bit convoluted or complicated, for starters. I know we addressed that before, but to my knowledge it was an issue that was never definitively resolved.

[Buffalostan]

I'd say the most successful aspect was the (intra?)-divisional rivalry. Or whichever one was the 'inside-the-division' one. I liked being able to select a rival for the group stage, personally.

For me - I didn't really care. I don't have any natural rivals, and my intra-divisional rivalry approached me. Maybe my experience was coloured in that my rival didn't RP (obviously - it was Bluth, who was busy hosting). I can certainly understand that for some nations, it was probably more rewarding.

I think the All-Star game didn't offer a whole lot, given the lack of involvement; it was a good idea, but I'm not sure it works well-enough in such a way to be reintroduced into future hosting bids for the World Bowl. RPing it is a bit convoluted or complicated, for starters. I know we addressed that before, but to my knowledge it was an issue that was never definitively resolved.

I agree with most of this. But who knows? Maybe some people put more effort into RPing because of the chance of their players being selected, and given the success of a tournament is mostly predicated on its roleplaying, that is in itself a good thing.

[The Fanboyists]

I'd say the most successful aspect was the (intra?)-divisional rivalry. Or whichever one was the 'inside-the-division' one. I liked being able to select a rival for the group stage, personally.

For me - I didn't really care. I don't have any natural rivals, and my intra-divisional rivalry approached me. Maybe my experience was coloured in that my rival didn't RP (obviously - it was Bluth, who was busy hosting). I can certainly understand that for some nations, it was probably more rewarding.

I think the All-Star game didn't offer a whole lot, given the lack of involvement; it was a good idea, but I'm not sure it works well-enough in such a way to be reintroduced into future hosting bids for the World Bowl. RPing it is a bit convoluted or complicated, for starters. I know we addressed that before, but to my knowledge it was an issue that was never definitively resolved.

I agree with most of this. But who knows? Maybe some people put more effort into RPing because of the chance of their players being selected, and given the success of a tournament is mostly predicated on its roleplaying, that is in itself a good thing.

True, I hadn't thought of it that way. But yeah, I guess the rivalry system isn't as rewarding to people that don't have natural rivalries like, say, Allamunnic States vs. Qazox, Cassadaigua vs. Newmanistan, Bluth vs. the NO Saints or the NY Jets...