The World Bowl Discussion Thread (OOC)

[Sarzonia]

My concern is the quickness with which Dancougar has seemingly agreed to re-scorinate not just the Steroga-Qazox match, but the other matches as well. I don't like the precedent that it could potentially set.

What if I challenge a match in which I lose to a newcomer team that doesn't RP when I've RP'd and posted a roster all throughout the tournament? Or for some other odd reason, someone else challenges a result? Re-scorinating is something that should be done VERY carefully, if at all. And I'm not even sure that it should be done in this particular case.

[Bluth Corporation]

My concern is the quickness with which Dancougar has seemingly agreed to re-scorinate not just the Steroga-Qazox match, but the other matches as well. I don't like the precedent that it could potentially set.

What if I challenge a match in which I lose to a newcomer team that doesn't RP when I've RP'd and posted a roster all throughout the tournament? Or for some other odd reason, someone else challenges a result? Re-scorinating is something that should be done VERY carefully, if at all. And I'm not even sure that it should be done in this particular case.

The difference is that there are no objectively wrong factors in the situation you posted--there's no accounting for the caprices of the RNG.

On the other hand, in the situation here there was quite clearly an error in the process used to compute the rankings that were fed in for the initial scoring.

[Dancougar]

My concern is the quickness with which Dancougar has seemingly agreed to re-scorinate not just the Steroga-Qazox match, but the other matches as well. I don't like the precedent that it could potentially set.

What if I challenge a match in which I lose to a newcomer team that doesn't RP when I've RP'd and posted a roster all throughout the tournament? Or for some other odd reason, someone else challenges a result? Re-scorinating is something that should be done VERY carefully, if at all. And I'm not even sure that it should be done in this particular case.

The games would not be rescored because Steroga doesn't like the result, but rather, because he uncovered an actual problem with the rankings.

[Arroza]

Arroza, remember that in soccer, you get different points for qualifying and the proper (or Cup of Harmony), so in a sense, the BoI is worth much less then 1/4th of the World Cup period, which is what would be a World Bowl equivalent since it is all one tournament. This is why 1/10th is better then 1/4th, I think.

In the end this is all going to be a big pain in the ass. And why I think this is our calling to establish a presidency and a committee.

Pain in the buttocks, yes.

I never thought about the weighting between the WC Quals and the WC proper, because the World Bowl hasn't ever gotten big enough that we felt that we needed a group stage in the World Bowl proper. We've always had some variation on a knockout tournament with between 16 and 8 teams, and even then it's weighted a bit heavier than the WB Qualifying.

Going 5-0-0 in Quals [in the standard 6 team group] got you 5 points.
Winning the World Bowl from a field of 16 got you 5 points for 4 wins.
Winning from a group of 8 or a group of 12 with a bye got you 5 points for 3 wins.

Either way, I guess it's about time we started to formalize this thing a bit. I likes the free flowing aspect of it, but if it's going to lead to things like this, it's got to be reined in some.

[Dancougar]

At minimum, matches involving BoI teams should be rescored with the correct rankings.

[Cassadaigua]

I have noticed something here. If you were also in the World Cup of Hockey you know that this same thing happened there. The only difference is that the problem with the rankings was noticed immediately after the group draw and the group draw was cancelled. Maybe more then one person should be doing the rankings and then the two of them can compare their results based on the guidelines.

Who knew that the Baptism of Iron would be scaled at 1/10th? I surely didn’t. Without a specific rule in place shouldn’t it then be at the host’s discretion, in this case, Arroza?

I don’t scorinate anything and don’t get into all the math stuff, that’s just not for me. But it seems as though an underlying factor here is the lack of specific procedural guidelines. It’s time for a World Bowl constitution so that everyone knows what is supposed to be 1/10th and what is supposed to be 1/4th.

[Arroza]

I have noticed something here. If you were also in the World Cup of Hockey you know that this same thing happened there. The only difference is that the problem with the rankings was noticed immediately after the group draw and the group draw was cancelled. Maybe more then one person should be doing the rankings and then the two of them can compare their results based on the guidelines.

Who knew that the Baptism of Iron would be scaled at 1/10th? I surely didn’t. Without a specific rule in place shouldn’t it then be at the host’s discretion, in this case, Arroza?

I don’t scorinate anything and don’t get into all the math stuff, that’s just not for me. But it seems as though an underlying factor here is the lack of specific procedural guidelines. It’s time for a World Bowl constitution so that everyone knows what is supposed to be 1/10th and what is supposed to be 1/4th.

I think without a specific rule in place it would go to the person doing the rankings, not th person doing the competition [unfortunately also me.] Someone else should have the choice of doing rankings definitely though. Bluth does ELO rankings, but I would be more than happt to either not have or share the responsibility of doing rankings.

[Cassadaigua]

I think without a specific rule in place it would go to the person doing the rankings, not th person doing the competition [unfortunately also me.] Someone else should have the choice of doing rankings definitely though. Bluth does ELO rankings, but I would be more than happt to either not have or share the responsibility of doing rankings.

I agree which is why I think we should continue to roll with what we have. I don't get why my game with Tocrowkia needs to be re-scorinated because of this. It was entirely unaffected. If we must use new ratings, can't Dancougar just use the new point values for MD2 and leave MD1 alone?

[Sarzonia]

Um, Bettia ... LoQuan Willard is a running back, not a linebacker. He wouldn't have intercepted a pass.

Not to mention, Marco Oliver is Sarzonia's punter.

[Dancougar]

So, yeah, I was probably too hasty in deciding to do things this morning, as the prevailing opinion by this point has swung pretty hard against a rescore. There's still a part of me that screams that the numbers were wrongedy wrong wrong and that should invalidate the results, but since I fail, I can at least say that the ranking points will definitely be fixed before any more scores are generated.

[Vephrall]

My 0.05 len:

If any rescorination is to be done, it should only be for matches that involved a BoI team (i.e. matches with at least one team with an incorrect ranking). Everything else should stay as is, as the results of those matches are perfectly legit.

But again, that's just my opinion.

[Delaclava]

I think matches should be re-scorinated if they involved a BoI team that had an unfair ranking allowing them an advantage that affected the result. For example, as BoI champ, I lost against Secristan 13-0, so docking me in the rankings wouldn't exactly change anything, because Secristan already won.

[The Fanboyists]

...Am I the only person that doesn't mind their result (apart from the bit where winning would have been nice, but you can't have everything, and I'm not surprised)

[Dancougar]

I think matches should be re-scorinated if they involved a BoI team that had an unfair ranking allowing them an advantage that affected the result. For example, as BoI champ, I lost against Secristan 13-0, so docking me in the rankings wouldn't exactly change anything, because Secristan already won.

In this case, it would be limited to matches where a BoI team played a team that has been active in prior tournaments and won... which would be... Palmouth over Newmanistan, and I think that's it. And it's very difficult to see how Palmouth's rank made the result unfair. Unexpected, on the other hand, I can see...

Now that we have some newcomers chiming in, it sounds like a rescore will not really do anything. I really do fail at making decisions, don't I? :-D

[Scandavian States]

I was kinda wondering how a new team had a higher AMS ranking than I did. It felt wrong, somehow.

[Newmanistan]

In this case, it would be limited to matches where a BoI team played a team that has been active in prior tournaments and won... which would be... Palmouth over Newmanistan, and I think that's it. And it's very difficult to see how Palmouth's rank made the result unfair. Unexpected, on the other hand, I can see...

Margaret (aka the randomness factor of scorination, for the new users) obviously wanted me to lose the game. Palmouth's point value being a tad more then it should wouldn't have changed anything. I support whatever decision you make.

There will be a Presidency election and a formal constitution drawn up after this. But not right now.... after the World Bowl.

[Bettia]

None of this would happen if you scorinated matches using dice... *ducks for cover*

[Dancougar]

Hmm, you know, I can see it now. This thing will end like that Simpsons episode where Homer goes on Spring Break...

(Various Dancougar personalities stand in front of the World Bowl thread.)
EMPRESS JESSICA: Well... you got through it somehow. But don't ever think of applying to host the World Bowl again!!

(Back home, Princess Erica crosses "American football" off the list of "Things Dancougar can host." It's rather long and almost everything is lined out.)
PRINCESS ERICA: So that leaves... Gaelic rules and quidditch.
PETER: Quidditch smells funny.
(She rolls her eyes and crosses it off the list.)
PRINCESS ERICA: Gaelic rules it is!
RUSS: I always thought there was something else you could play on a cricket pitch!
PRINCESS ERICA: That's Aussie rules.
RUSS: Awww.

[Sarzonia]

Don't feel too bad Dancougar ...

There's always bocce ball!

[Dancougar]

On a completely unrelated note, people who have downloaded NSFS 2.0.7.2 for American football and rugby will want to download it again. Minor bugfix in the American football resume files. It was doing <pat-style>x</style>, which is wrongedy-wrong-wrong and gives you an error that doesn't tell you at all that this is what happened.

[Qazox]

UGH. See what happens when I win 52-0? Just keep my scores to 49-3, an everything will be fine!

[Bluth Corporation]

OK, what the hell...

[The Babbage Islands]

There's no easy way out of a situation like this. The Babbage Islands will support whatever the organiser decides.

When this World Bowl is over, we would like very much to be involved with the formal constitutional processes. As some of you know, I recently built my first scorinator and have my baby toe in the water running a four team event right now. I have 30 years RL experience as a tournament director in more groups than I care to list -- which doesn't give me special qualities here, just a knowledge base from which I can draw.

[The Fanboyists]

Argh. Did I have to get my butt handed to me again? Couldn't I have scored at least one touchdown.

Not that I'm surprised in the slightest. I figured this was gonna happen.

*Shakes head* Disgraceful.

[The Fanboyists]

OOC: Qazox, I'll fix your scoring events in my article if you fix mine in yours...and I noted that Dreyse is no longer kicker on account of injury in practice and crappy performance. It is now Phillipa Demirici, as noted in the updated roster.