Nationstates Olympic Games Discussion Thread

[West Bromwich Holme]

I would be interested in hosting one, but letting someone more knowledgeable in sports take the reins for actually hosting the location etc.

By 'hosting', we (as a forum) mean the owner of the nation who runs the signups, judges RP bonus and scorinates the results all in a fair and timely fashion. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the difference between 'hosting' and 'hosting the location etc.'

I'm interested to see what you'd think of hosting one, but perhaps set in the 2000s or 2010s, although how you'd allow wiggle room for it without conflicting with existing canon is the biggest problem so far.

The 'existing canon' is that it's currently the 14th Summer Games - there's no universal clock that NS Sports runs to, as everyone tracks time differently. Whatever year it is in your nation, it's fine, but that's not something to impose on the Games as a whole.

Hosting was meant in an IC manner.

[The Royal Kingdom of Quebec]

By 'hosting', we (as a forum) mean the owner of the nation who runs the signups, judges RP bonus and scorinates the results all in a fair and timely fashion. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the difference between 'hosting' and 'hosting the location etc.'


The 'existing canon' is that it's currently the 14th Summer Games - there's no universal clock that NS Sports runs to, as everyone tracks time differently. Whatever year it is in your nation, it's fine, but that's not something to impose on the Games as a whole.

Hosting was meant in an IC manner.

Please read this Guide to Sports Roleplaying before going any further with your insinuations.

Thank you.

[Kelssek]

West Bromwich Holme, I hope you're not put off by that unnecessarily harsh response. As Starblaydia notes, there's nothing wrong with what you suggest, but it's unlikely that anyone will take you up on that idea.

You'll be definitely welcome to participate in the next Olympics and I hope that you do, but you may have to wait for a while as I don't expect it to happen until the end of the year at least. That will be the Winter Olympics.

[Liventia]

Hosting was meant in an IC manner.

I refer you to what Electrum said:

Honestly, given the work and manpower it takes to host one of these things, I doubt that anyone qualified would willingly agree to such an arrangement. I know I certainly wouldn't. The OOC host would be basically sacrificing how ever many hours every day over an entire month to judge RP bonus and scorinate without even the honour of actually hosting the Olympics in their own nation.

As another multiple-time host of the Games, I am in full agreement with Electrum. You are not going to find anyone who would take you up on that offer.

[Diarcesia]

Hosting was meant in an IC manner.

I refer you to what Electrum said:

Honestly, given the work and manpower it takes to host one of these things, I doubt that anyone qualified would willingly agree to such an arrangement. I know I certainly wouldn't. The OOC host would be basically sacrificing how ever many hours every day over an entire month to judge RP bonus and scorinate without even the honour of actually hosting the Olympics in their own nation.

As another multiple-time host of the Games, I am in full agreement with Electrum. You are not going to find anyone who would take you up on that offer.

What WBH can do is to find a joint host if they don't feel completely confident that they can dedicate the time needed due to RL constraints.

[Liventia]

I refer you to what Electrum said:

As another multiple-time host of the Games, I am in full agreement with Electrum. You are not going to find anyone who would take you up on that offer.

What WBH can do is to find a joint host if they don't feel completely confident that they can dedicate the time needed due to RL constraints.

Someone who has never hosted a single event on NS Sports should not be hosting the Olympics, as a co-host or otherwise. Nor is suggesting that they do so a good idea.

[Diarcesia]

What were the notable instances of nations sending a full delegation and coming out empty-handed?

[The Royal Kingdom of Quebec]

What were the notable instances of nations sending a full delegation and coming out empty-handed?

It is still Day 2 of what's a 16-day olympiad. Too early to say anything on that.

[Diarcesia]

What were the notable instances of nations sending a full delegation and coming out empty-handed?

It is still Day 2 of what's a 16-day olympiad. Too early to say anything on that.

I mean... in the past Olympics lol.

[Darmen]

I mean... in the past Olympics lol.

I'm not certain that's something that would ever have been tracked or knowledge someone would have off the top of their head. Your best bet at finding any possible instances of someone coming away empty handed while sending a large delegation would be to trawl through past sign-up threads, figure out who sent large delegations and then compare with the final medal tables from that Games. It might take a couple of hours over a couple of days, but if you really want to know...

[Diarcesia]

I mean... in the past Olympics lol.

I'm not certain that's something that would ever have been tracked or knowledge someone would have off the top of their head. Your best bet at finding any possible instances of someone coming away empty handed while sending a large delegation would be to trawl through past sign-up threads, figure out who sent large delegations and then compare with the final medal tables from that Games. It might take a couple of hours over a couple of days, but if you really want to know...

I did check the Summer games for those that have links readily available in the OP. By "empty-handed" with a "large delegation", I'm pertaining to those with more than about 350 entries that ended up with zero gold medals.

I found none, though there were close calls. There's a couple of instances with a 500+ delegation having exactly one gold medal (in fact they both have a 1-3-7 tally and that these are in different Summer games). Ending up with between 3-5 golds isn't unheard of, either.

[Kriegiersien]

I think in the XI Summergames in Aeropag I went 0-2-4 with far over 300 entrants (324?). Is that failure enough?

[Diarcesia]

I think in the XI Summergames in Aeropag I went 0-2-4 with far over 300 entrants (324?). Is that failure enough?

Margaret is more fickle than [violet]

[Kelssek]

Bid for the XV Olympic Winter Games

Venues
Entauren
Entauren Mountain Resort – Alpine skiing, freestyle skiing, ski jumping, snowboarding
Etnier Sliding Centre – Bobsleigh, luge, skeleton

Clayquot metropolitan area
Fratellis Olympic Oval – Speed skating
Portage Centre – short track, ice hockey
Partisans Arena (sponsored name: The SuperBarn) – ice hockey
University of Etnier Sports Centre – curling
Coronet Park – Biathlon, cross-country skiing

In addition to the base list, all current extended list events will be held. I don't plan to hold any demonstration events at this time but I am open to proposals if they seem to garner enough interest.

Schedule
The Olympics will begin January 4, 2021 and is planned to run for 3 weeks. This is provisional and reflects the earliest date and shortest time frame that I am willing to run. Or in other words, it may start later and go on for longer.

Entry limits and scorination
Each user may enter one main nation and one puppet. There is no maximum number of entries except for those specified per event. Skill ratings of 0-100 are permitted. A delegation must have an average skill of 50 or below.

xkoranate 0.3.0 will be used for all events. Files will also be created as needed in order to reflect current RL Olympic formats and judging, etc. RP bonus will include a component that is cumulative for the entire Games, and a component for the previous three in-character days.

Anti-minmaxing measures
Delegations whose skill modifiers have a standard deviation above the following values will have their RP bonus reduced by up to 33% depending on how much they exceed the limit by. Delegations with more than 30 entries will have skill modifiers capped at 75 if they have a std dev above 33.

Less than 30 entries: no penalty.
30-99 entries: no penalty for std dev of 32 and below.
100-150 entries: no penalty for std dev of 30 and below.
More than 150 entries: no penalty for std dev of 28 and below.

Policy on combined delegations
All delegations must be entirely composed of entries representing the same national Olympic committee and using the same NOC code, except for combined delegations that are composed of NOCs
a) representing independent countries,
b) which each have their own NationStates account, and,
c) which have a compelling regional or cultural link between them.

Notwithstanding any other formal rule, users are strongly encouraged to enter the Olympics as their own delegation.

Rationale
Combined delegations are those where multiple NOCs under different codes participate as a single delegation. They post using a single forum account and all NOCs which are part of that delegation are given RP bonus for those posts. They abide by the entry limits applicable to a single delegation.

The advantage of such delegations is to encourage collaborative roleplaying and lower the bar for entry that might otherwise discourage users from taking part in the Olympics, given the complexity of the signup process and other things that put people off. Astyria and Teremara are examples of regions who have made great use of this to involve users who might otherwise not participate in the Olympics at all.

However, combined delegations create administrative complications for the hosts, such as in ensuring all the delegation members receive the correct bonus. This poses few problems with one or two combined delegations, but more than that greatly increases the chances of confusion and error. A single user submitting a combined delegation made up of their puppets or of sub-national entities does not provide the benefit to the event to make up for the inconvenience to the hosts. Those in such situations are encouraged to enter separate delegations where this is justifiable in-character. I’m willing to answer questions about specific cases if this affects you.

Experience
Kelssek has a strong record of hosting major international events, including the 4th Winter Olympics, 5th Summer Olympics, 12th Summer Olympics (co-hosted), World Cup 46 (with Ad'ihan), World Cup 85 qualifiers (as one of four hosts), Cup of Harmony 77 (with Zwangzug), and multiple World Cup of Hockey and Rugby World Cup editions.

The city of Clayquot is served by an international airport and has well-developed transportation links and tourist infrastructure. Entauren is a world-class mountain resort with existing capacity for over 32,000 overnight visitors.

Please feel free to ask about anything I might have missed.

[Liventia]

Bid looks good to me, and I'm in favour of switching from a non-min-max bonus to a min-max penalty.

I can look through my files and send updated ones your way.

[Electrum]

I agree with Liventia on both counts.

Files will also be created as needed in order to reflect current RL Olympic formats and judging, etc.

Could you make these publicly available when they're ready? It would be good to have a set of updated files that the community can use.

[Liventia]

Given the comparatively lower number of events in the Winter Games, would you consider changing those min-max penalty entry thresholds to, for example, < 30, 30-80, 81-180, > 180?

[Quintessence of Dust]

You have always been an excellent host, Kelssek, I have every confidence in you.

If there is enough interest I would propose a bandy demonstration event as I enjoyed that at the (Fourth or Fifth, I can't remember) Winter Olympics, but I know it's a lot to scorinate already!

[Tikariot]

I intend to do a domestic bandy league for my puppet Norrhem (and potentially Tikariot), so could be cool.

[Teremaran Olympics Delegation]

Teremara will be in Clayquot. We look forward to it.

[Tikariot]

Teremara will be in Clayquot. We look forward to it.

This is not a sign up thread, just the bid has been posted.

[Teremaran Olympics Delegation]

Teremara will be in Clayquot. We look forward to it.

This is not a sign up thread, just the bid has been posted.

Yes. Understood. I know how sign ups work. Only one of us is taking things literally here. And the rest of us are excited for Winter Olympics to start up.







EDIT: Also, Olympics sign ups are probably the most complicated of all the NSS event sign ups because of the math involved, unless you're submitting a small delegation. You can't simply say 'I'm in.' A cursory search of the post history of this account would reveal that it is only used for Olympics and been through several, so yeah, probably know how it works, thanks.

[Kelssek]

1. I will of course make public any sport xml files I create and use. And to save my own effort and also allow for consistency across Olympics editions, I would be very grateful if Liventia sent me his files as well.

2. Regarding the min-max penalties and what numbers of entrants to apply it to: I agree lower numbers would be appropriate and I will clarify what exactly they will be before voting starts.

3. The bandy idea does sound interesting and it could potentially be a nice IC way to bring the Olympics to smaller towns near Clayquot. I'm happy to put one demonstration sport on the program and see what response it gets.

[Ioudaia]

2. Regarding the min-max penalties and what numbers of entrants to apply it to: I agree lower numbers would be appropriate and I will clarify what exactly they will be before voting starts.

Excellent!

Out of curiosity, why did you choose a penalty rather than a cap? I'd prefer an SD cap out of simplicity: teams must average to no more than 50 and have an SD no higher than X, depending on their size.

[Teremaran Olympics Delegation]

Policy on combined delegations
All delegations must be entirely composed of entries representing the same national Olympic committee and using the same NOC code, except for combined delegations that are composed of NOCs
a) representing independent countries,
b) which each have their own NationStates account, and,
c) which have a compelling regional or cultural link between them.

Notwithstanding any other formal rule, users are strongly encouraged to enter the Olympics as their own delegation.

Rationale
Combined delegations are those where multiple NOCs under different codes participate as a single delegation. They post using a single forum account and all NOCs which are part of that delegation are given RP bonus for those posts. They abide by the entry limits applicable to a single delegation.

The advantage of such delegations is to encourage collaborative roleplaying and lower the bar for entry that might otherwise discourage users from taking part in the Olympics, given the complexity of the signup process and other things that put people off. Astyria and Teremara are examples of regions who have made great use of this to involve users who might otherwise not participate in the Olympics at all.

However, combined delegations create administrative complications for the hosts, such as in ensuring all the delegation members receive the correct bonus. This poses few problems with one or two combined delegations, but more than that greatly increases the chances of confusion and error. A single user submitting a combined delegation made up of their puppets or of sub-national entities does not provide the benefit to the event to make up for the inconvenience to the hosts. Those in such situations are encouraged to enter separate delegations where this is justifiable in-character. I’m willing to answer questions about specific cases if this affects you.

Yes, this affects us. I think we would meet all your qualifications, and there shouldn't be an issue...but it still feels like we're being called out on this somehow. Sorry it causes an administrative complication, but as you pointed out, there are reasons and benefits to why we do what we do. Is there some way I'm missing that we might be penalized, assuming you host, for entering multiple nations with their own trigrams in a unified regional delegation?