Nationstates Olympic Games Discussion Thread

[Strike]

Policy on combined delegations
All delegations must be entirely composed of entries representing the same national Olympic committee and using the same NOC code, except for combined delegations that are composed of NOCs
a) representing independent countries,
b) which each have their own NationStates account, and,
c) which have a compelling regional or cultural link between them.

Notwithstanding any other formal rule, users are strongly encouraged to enter the Olympics as their own delegation.

Rationale
Combined delegations are those where multiple NOCs under different codes participate as a single delegation. They post using a single forum account and all NOCs which are part of that delegation are given RP bonus for those posts. They abide by the entry limits applicable to a single delegation.

The advantage of such delegations is to encourage collaborative roleplaying and lower the bar for entry that might otherwise discourage users from taking part in the Olympics, given the complexity of the signup process and other things that put people off. Astyria and Teremara are examples of regions who have made great use of this to involve users who might otherwise not participate in the Olympics at all.

However, combined delegations create administrative complications for the hosts, such as in ensuring all the delegation members receive the correct bonus. This poses few problems with one or two combined delegations, but more than that greatly increases the chances of confusion and error. A single user submitting a combined delegation made up of their puppets or of sub-national entities does not provide the benefit to the event to make up for the inconvenience to the hosts. Those in such situations are encouraged to enter separate delegations where this is justifiable in-character. I’m willing to answer questions about specific cases if this affects you.

Yes, this affects us. I think we would meet all your qualifications, and there shouldn't be an issue...but it still feels like we're being called out on this somehow. Sorry it causes an administrative complication, but as you pointed out, there are reasons and benefits to why we do what we do. Is there some way I'm missing that we might be penalized, assuming you host, for entering multiple nations with their own trigrams in a unified regional delegation?

I read it as quite the opposite. I see they would be saying "Teremaran Olympic Delegation *IS* the example of an "justifiable" combined delegation". Contrarily "The Affiliated Nations of Vilitan Origin" consisting of 3-4 nations controlled by a single user would not be.

So the Guidance is: Teremaran Union, proceed as normal. Vilitan Union: Don't be a jerk just enter with a single trigram. With the caveat of "There is a chance if you submit a combined delegation with a lot of trigrammes, one or more could unintentionally get a wrong RP bonus entered on one of the MD's"

[Liventia]

Yes, this affects us. I think we would meet all your qualifications, and there shouldn't be an issue...but it still feels like we're being called out on this somehow. Sorry it causes an administrative complication, but as you pointed out, there are reasons and benefits to why we do what we do. Is there some way I'm missing that we might be penalized, assuming you host, for entering multiple nations with their own trigrams in a unified regional delegation?

I would say Kelssek's policy is driven primarily, at a guess, by the situation surrounding Diarcesia's (ultimately illegal) combined delegation at the last Games, not a long-standing entry from your end. The insinuation that he is targeting the Teremaran delegation is unnecessary.

[Banija]

Yes, this affects us. I think we would meet all your qualifications, and there shouldn't be an issue...but it still feels like we're being called out on this somehow. Sorry it causes an administrative complication, but as you pointed out, there are reasons and benefits to why we do what we do. Is there some way I'm missing that we might be penalized, assuming you host, for entering multiple nations with their own trigrams in a unified regional delegation?

I read it as quite the opposite. I see they would be saying "Teremaran Olympic Delegation *IS* the example of an "justifiable" combined delegation". Contrarily "The Affiliated Nations of Vilitan Origin" consisting of 3-4 nations controlled by a single user would not be.

So the Guidance is: Teremaran Union, proceed as normal. Vilitan Union: Don't be a jerk just enter with a single trigram. With the caveat of "There is a chance if you submit a combined delegation with a lot of trigrammes, one or more could unintentionally get a wrong RP bonus entered on one of the MD's"

I would necessarily disagree with this interpretation.

If you look at Liv's above post, that is the target. Diarcesia entering a unified team of nations that exist in his IC canon but are not nations on NS. Some of those nations didn't have NS accounts. Whereas the Vilitan Union, on the other hand, fulfills all three requirements rather easily and would still be able to sign up as normal. Nowhere does it state that multiple delegations are only for multiple users- they just need to be for multiple NS nations.

That's how I read it, anyways. The bid overall is strong from Kelssek. I can support it.

[Teremaran Olympics Delegation]

Alright. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure I interpreted it correctly. Eventually, I think Kelssek himself could weigh in as it is his bid, but the rest of your perspectives' are helpful.

[Diarcesia]

Yes, this affects us. I think we would meet all your qualifications, and there shouldn't be an issue...but it still feels like we're being called out on this somehow. Sorry it causes an administrative complication, but as you pointed out, there are reasons and benefits to why we do what we do. Is there some way I'm missing that we might be penalized, assuming you host, for entering multiple nations with their own trigrams in a unified regional delegation?

I would say Kelssek's policy is driven primarily, at a guess, by the situation surrounding Diarcesia's (ultimately illegal) combined delegation at the last Games, not a long-standing entry from your end. The insinuation that he is targeting the Teremaran delegation is unnecessary.

Yeah, I opened that can of worms there. That said, I'm okay with this policy.

[CoraSpia]

With regards the joint delegation rule, if I was to enter a delegation for Vakolicci Haven and Celeria, which does not have its own nationstates account, and one from Velstrania (which does) could I continue to rp both nations from one account or would I have to use my gvh account for Vakolicci and Celeria and Velstrania for Velstrania, or even create a new Vakolicci Haven and Celeria account?

[Krytenia]

With regards the joint delegation rule, if I was to enter a delegation for Vakolicci Haven and Celeria, which does not have its own nationstates account, and one from Velstrania (which does) could I continue to rp both nations from one account or would I have to use my gvh account for Vakolicci and Celeria and Velstrania for Velstrania, or even create a new Vakolicci Haven and Celeria account?

Have you ever considered actually using the account relevant to the nation?

[CoraSpia]

With regards the joint delegation rule, if I was to enter a delegation for Vakolicci Haven and Celeria, which does not have its own nationstates account, and one from Velstrania (which does) could I continue to rp both nations from one account or would I have to use my gvh account for Vakolicci and Celeria and Velstrania for Velstrania, or even create a new Vakolicci Haven and Celeria account?

Have you ever considered actually using the account relevant to the nation?

The GVH account is what I'd be using in the competition (and what I've always used for Vakolicci Haven and Celeria,) I think people would likely draw the line at me using Coraspia for it.

[Kelssek]

I specified Teremara as one example that I'm fine with. I'm sorry if it seemed like targeting you, that was certainly not my intent at all.

Yes, the Diarcesia entry last Olympics is something that prompted this. One user with multiple NOCs makes a lot of problems. But perhaps a bigger issue that it should not normally be multiple users behind one delegation, which has happened sporadically before from regular NSSporters who I'd encourage to enter their own delegations instead of combining them.

This may seem arbitrary to some, but I think there is a difference between a group of collaborative regional RPers most of whom don't do sports RP that often, and when two or more experienced NSSporters decide to do it. This can be a way of gaming the system, too - twice the mental resources behind a delegation than is the case for most others.

One delegation called the Vilitan Union where everyone is "VLT" is fine. Vilita and Turori entering as separate delegations is also fine (this is just the standard one puppet allowed). These create no complications.

Out of curiosity, why did you choose a penalty rather than a cap? I'd prefer an SD cap out of simplicity: teams must average to no more than 50 and have an SD no higher than X, depending on their size.

It works out to the same thing if you have a min-max avoidance bonus that some do not get, and a deduction on the basis of not doing enough to avoid min-max. In addition, it does take extra effort in allocating points, so a sliding scale is more fair than a strict yes/no. I believe there is a sufficiently strong deterrent to just not bothering to try at all.

[Teremaran Olympics Delegation]

I specified Teremara as one example that I'm fine with. I'm sorry if it seemed like targeting you, that was certainly not my intent at all.

All good. I needed to read it through another time. Plus, some of the more helpful input from some others helped. Still looking forward to it.

[Liventia]

Now that we have a bid for the next Winter Olympics, I'm setting the cut-off date for any competing bids for the end of the month. All bids should be in by 00:01 UTC, 1 December 2020.

[Kelssek]

Less than 30 entries: no penalty.
30-99 entries: no penalty for std dev of 32 and below.
100-150 entries: no penalty for std dev of 30 and below.
More than 150 entries: no penalty for std dev of 28 and below.

Forgot to note that I edited in the following change to the min-max avoidance policy.

[Liventia]

Now that we have a bid for the next Winter Olympics, I'm setting the cut-off date for any competing bids for the end of the month. All bids should be in by 00:01 UTC, 1 December 2020.

A reminder that any potential challengers should present their bids in the coming days.

[Olympic Council]

Host voting is now open.

[Liventia]

All yours, Kelssek.

[Kelssek]

Thank you everyone. Expect the signups thread in a couple of days. It is looking like the Olympics will start in late January rather than the early date I originally thought I'd be able to.

[Banija]

Congratulations!

[Waisnor]

Congratulations, Kelssek!)

[Graintfjall]

1. Thank you for the spreadsheet, which is very helpful. Not all of the B column cells seem to have the IF formula in them? For example, B5 and B6 do not, but B7 and B8 do. This means the entries are not being summed and averaged correctly.

2. I'm sorry if this is me being dense, but is there an overall entry limit for those submitting two delegations? In the OP it states Users entering one delegation: no limits other than those specified per event and the specificity would seem to imply there is some other limit for users submitting two delegations, but if so I can't see what it is. Alternatively can two entirely full delegations be submitted by the same user, all other rules and limits notwithstanding?

3. May I use the GRÆ trigram or will this cause issues with formatting results?

[Kelssek]

1. I have now fixed the issue, the link remains the same.

2. One user may enter a primary delegation and a puppet. Yes, that user can submit two full delegations if ze really wants to.

3. By all means. I don't think it will break things, but it should be fairly easy to find-and-replace if it happens.

Other notes:
Please don't post and then edit it later. Makes it very likely I'll miss your sign-up.
I forgot about the bandy demonstration event. It is now included.

[Graintfjall]

Thanks K.

One more small error: pretty sure NordicCombined:Women's Team Large Hill (4) should be NordicCombined:Women's Team Large Hill (1 team of 4).

[Kelssek]

Fixed. Fortunately only Mapletish treated this as an individual event and entered a full 4 athletes. I'll average the skill mod and put all four into the team unless I am specifically told otherwise.

[Mapletish]

Fixed. Fortunately only Mapletish treated this as an individual event and entered a full 4 athletes. I'll average the skill mod and put all four into the team unless I am specifically told otherwise.

Thanks for the update Kelssek, I will edit my entry to reflect the change. if that is fine with you.

#EDIT 1: I have updated my sign up post to reflect the changes.

[New Waldensia]

Working on my delegation, looking forward to the Winter Games!

[Npc West Florida]

Kelssek, I had forgotten to copy part of the signup sheet (skill modifiers) and I just went back and edited it in.
Edit: on the advice of West Phoenicia I made a new post in the thread.