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Better Business Bureau [Feedback & Advice]

A meeting place where national storefronts can tout their wares and discuss trade. [In character]

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The Socialist Republic of Astrakhan
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Posts: 209
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Socialist Republic of Astrakhan » Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:20 pm

Crookfur wrote:
Sword Island wrote:What can I do to grow my storefront?

Advertise, the most basic bit of which is to include a link to your atorefront in your signature.

Also if you are involved on ns motorsport, which you seem to be, do everything you can to push your car company brand (which of course you will need to more fully develop with insignia and badges).

One thing I would say is that in NS as in real life cars are very much sold on looks so pictures will be very important. Try to avoid using rl images as that can lead to people just dissmissing your stuff as rip offs or just the rl stuff itself. Images don't need to be spectacular but should be enough to make your stuff look unique. Maybe try starting with side elevation line drawings of the cars you imagine your stuff to be like and make changes to bring the result closer to what you envision. Of course your art/3d modeling skills could be far beyond that so feel free to do what works for you illustration wise.
As with advertising on ns motor sports stuff use the motor sports stuff on your store front, anything to hold more attention and generate intrest in visitors.


Nice.
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Laka Strolistandiler
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Postby Laka Strolistandiler » Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:54 am

Is there a storefront template anywhere?
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Neu Engollon
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Postby Neu Engollon » Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:39 am

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:Is there a storefront template anywhere?


No, because they are not meant to be cookie-cutter threads. You can ask how to code and format for certain specific ideas you have, but unless you just want to completely rip off some other player [hopefully with their permission, otherwise you're plagiarizing, and that's very bad] then you're going to have to figure out storefront design on your own, or ask for help. Out of genuine curiosity, does it look to you like all the storefronts came from the same 'template'?
Last edited by Neu Engollon on Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Untecna
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Untecna » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:10 pm

I want to make an investment and holdings company as a storefront. Any helpful links or advice to help me out?
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Neu Engollon
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Postby Neu Engollon » Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:38 am

Untecna wrote:I want to make an investment and holdings company as a storefront. Any helpful links or advice to help me out?


There's been a few out there on GE&T to take example from. They don't get a lot of traffic, so I hope you're not doing it to pull in RP from other players, and it's more for your own satisfaction or to fill a void in canon.

What exactly do you need to know?
More on generally how to make a storefront, or more about how to tailor an investment and holdings company to NS?

We have a NS GE&T Discord server, with plenty of helpful people there to answer questions on either matter, and a whole channel dedicated to storefront making, and another to banking/financial matters. Maybe we'll see you on there.
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Untecna
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Untecna » Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:07 am

Neu Engollon wrote:
Untecna wrote:I want to make an investment and holdings company as a storefront. Any helpful links or advice to help me out?


There's been a few out there on GE&T to take example from. They don't get a lot of traffic, so I hope you're not doing it to pull in RP from other players, and it's more for your own satisfaction or to fill a void in canon.

What exactly do you need to know?
More on generally how to make a storefront, or more about how to tailor an investment and holdings company to NS?

We have a NS GE&T Discord server, with plenty of helpful people there to answer questions on either matter, and a whole channel dedicated to storefront making, and another to banking/financial matters. Maybe we'll see you on there.

Some general help for making a storefront would be nice, so I can maybe make it a bit better than the one that I have, but mostly I want to know how I can make something like that work on NS.

And I just joined the discord, I see there's a banking and securities area.
Somehow still without a passed proposal in the WA. I'm trying, I assure you.
Casual Californian liberal, on the center-left in most issues, who visits NSG unironically.
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News: Spice now legalized across Untecna as a recreational drug | Empire now near war

My storefronts: Palo-Xara

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Erloane
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Posts: 57
Founded: Apr 03, 2021
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Erloane » Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:22 am

Hi, just looking for feedback/criticisim/new ideas on my storefront, viewtopic.php?f=6&t=503994
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Wormfodder Delivery
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Founded: Feb 14, 2021
Corporate Police State

Postby Wormfodder Delivery » Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:26 am

Probably would make a new version of that unofficial guide to creating a storefront. It's full of dead links and examples that have closed since then
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Diahon
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Postby Diahon » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:26 pm

A superficial question: for those of you without the creative acumen to design logos and the like unaided, where do you get yours for your storefronts? Some logo randomizer of sorts that you guys can suggest?

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Common Territories
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Common Territories » Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:11 pm

Diahon wrote:A superficial question: for those of you without the creative acumen to design logos and the like unaided, where do you get yours for your storefronts? Some logo randomizer of sorts that you guys can suggest?

Well to be exact, I can to some degree make logos and such depending on what you're looking for, for example. Though sometimes that's just my preference. It's not as hard as you think actually; it's just some basic photo editing with trial-and-error runs. Anyways, there are a number of sites that let you either make something of a logo or some type of stamp/icon/whatever. Not all of those are "free" since they're made for real customer products or the logos themselves are the products. You can save the image, but those sites that try to make you purchase them wont let you. Thus you save a screenshot and edit everything out or to make it appear better. I have seen some actual free simple design creator sites but that's been many months since I even thought of looking.

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West Bromwich Holme
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Father Knows Best State

Postby West Bromwich Holme » Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:44 am

Looking for feedback on this new fast-food storefront I created: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=510885&p=39047937#p39047912
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Paris Saint-Germain
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Founded: Jun 07, 2020
Corporate Police State

Postby Paris Saint-Germain » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:39 pm

Can there be storefronts based on irl businesses? I'm planning on creating one based on Qatar Airways, but I'm wondering if they have to be completely original or not.
Puppet football nation of Outer Sparta. Proud Qatari team. Wants to win a CL. QSI forever! (Posts usually in-character, are satirical, often revolving around Qatari propaganda because Qatar is the best!)
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Untecna
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Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Untecna » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:43 pm

Paris Saint-Germain wrote:Can there be storefronts based on irl businesses? I'm planning on creating one based on Qatar Airways, but I'm wondering if they have to be completely original or not.

If you're basing it off of something, I'm sure it's fine. I don't think there are any rules on it, though I may (and probably am) be wrong.
Somehow still without a passed proposal in the WA. I'm trying, I assure you.
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News: Spice now legalized across Untecna as a recreational drug | Empire now near war

My storefronts: Palo-Xara

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Paris Saint-Germain
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Founded: Jun 07, 2020
Corporate Police State

Postby Paris Saint-Germain » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:52 pm

Untecna wrote:
Paris Saint-Germain wrote:Can there be storefronts based on irl businesses? I'm planning on creating one based on Qatar Airways, but I'm wondering if they have to be completely original or not.

If you're basing it off of something, I'm sure it's fine. I don't think there are any rules on it, though I may (and probably am) be wrong.

I of course don't want it to be completely based off of the irl Qatar Airways (since my nation differs only based on size and stuff), but still use the irl name and such.
Puppet football nation of Outer Sparta. Proud Qatari team. Wants to win a CL. QSI forever! (Posts usually in-character, are satirical, often revolving around Qatari propaganda because Qatar is the best!)
Qatar, oil, cheating, corruption, farming, winning Ligue 1 every year, Neymar, Mbappe, skirting FFP, huge transfers, Messi, huge wages
Lille, Not winning a CL, not winning Ligue 1 every year, bottling games, renewable energy, FFP regulations, every other French team who is not like us

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Neu Engollon
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Neu Engollon » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:18 am

West Bromwich Holme wrote:Looking for feedback on this new fast-food storefront I created: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=510885&p=39047937#p39047912


There is promise. It's rather basic now, but a good start. You might want to consider adding some imagery and color.
Also eventually expanding your menu. Maybe filling in more on the background of the company and expounding on the founder's history. Also, make use of that BB coding to add boxes and differing font sizes.


Paris Saint-Germain wrote:
Untecna wrote:If you're basing it off of something, I'm sure it's fine. I don't think there are any rules on it, though I may (and probably am) be wrong.

I of course don't want it to be completely based off of the irl Qatar Airways (since my nation differs only based on size and stuff), but still use the irl name and such.


It's a bit 4th wall breaking to use the names of RL businesses, which some find irritating, but there isn't a direct rule against using the name. The "and such" part is worrying. There are rules about lifting content from RL websites, whether text, formatting or both. In other words, don't plagiarize. Be sure to be as original as possible when creating the content of your storefront thread to make sure the name is the only thing you're copying, as someone is sure to find out if you don't, eventually. That goes for copying other NS players' threads, also.
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Paris Saint-Germain
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Founded: Jun 07, 2020
Corporate Police State

Postby Paris Saint-Germain » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:10 pm

Neu Engollon wrote:
West Bromwich Holme wrote:Looking for feedback on this new fast-food storefront I created: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=510885&p=39047937#p39047912


There is promise. It's rather basic now, but a good start. You might want to consider adding some imagery and color.
Also eventually expanding your menu. Maybe filling in more on the background of the company and expounding on the founder's history. Also, make use of that BB coding to add boxes and differing font sizes.


Paris Saint-Germain wrote:I of course don't want it to be completely based off of the irl Qatar Airways (since my nation differs only based on size and stuff), but still use the irl name and such.


It's a bit 4th wall breaking to use the names of RL businesses, which some find irritating, but there isn't a direct rule against using the name. The "and such" part is worrying. There are rules about lifting content from RL websites, whether text, formatting or both. In other words, don't plagiarize. Be sure to be as original as possible when creating the content of your storefront thread to make sure the name is the only thing you're copying, as someone is sure to find out if you don't, eventually. That goes for copying other NS players' threads, also.

Okay, I can use the name (or a variant of the name) but make sure it's more original to my lore.
Puppet football nation of Outer Sparta. Proud Qatari team. Wants to win a CL. QSI forever! (Posts usually in-character, are satirical, often revolving around Qatari propaganda because Qatar is the best!)
Qatar, oil, cheating, corruption, farming, winning Ligue 1 every year, Neymar, Mbappe, skirting FFP, huge transfers, Messi, huge wages
Lille, Not winning a CL, not winning Ligue 1 every year, bottling games, renewable energy, FFP regulations, every other French team who is not like us

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Neu Engollon
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Neu Engollon » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:39 am

Paris Saint-Germain wrote:Okay, I can use the name (or a variant of the name) but make sure it's more original to my lore.


Do what you gotta do. My point, just to boil it down, was: Using RL name is ok as long as the rest of the content is original. Plagiarizing is not.
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Paris Saint-Germain
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Corporate Police State

Postby Paris Saint-Germain » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:58 pm

Neu Engollon wrote:
Paris Saint-Germain wrote:Okay, I can use the name (or a variant of the name) but make sure it's more original to my lore.


Do what you gotta do. My point, just to boil it down, was: Using RL name is ok as long as the rest of the content is original. Plagiarizing is not.

Got it. Thanks for your feedback.
Puppet football nation of Outer Sparta. Proud Qatari team. Wants to win a CL. QSI forever! (Posts usually in-character, are satirical, often revolving around Qatari propaganda because Qatar is the best!)
Qatar, oil, cheating, corruption, farming, winning Ligue 1 every year, Neymar, Mbappe, skirting FFP, huge transfers, Messi, huge wages
Lille, Not winning a CL, not winning Ligue 1 every year, bottling games, renewable energy, FFP regulations, every other French team who is not like us

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Crookfur
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Crookfur » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:33 pm

IIRC using the name of an RL business is pretty much a no-no.
Doing so does theoretically expose the site to litigation and whilst a lot of it infringement on ns flys under the radar, the site does get noticed as the whole UN thing illustrated.
Secondly like using any RL thing it just leads to arguments about who owns what and who gets to use the RL name. In a closed rp where you are playing qatar then yeah it's to be expected that there is a Qatar Airways in your nation) but in the wild world of open NS, well you ain't going to be rhe only Qatar.

Using ye olde trick of a similar but slightly changed name is probably a far more safe and useful approach, possibly more fun too. Pater or katar airways would probably be close enough.
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Noristoniaka
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Founded: Nov 23, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noristoniaka » Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:46 pm

Could anyone give me tips on how to improve my storefront? Nothing really has happened.

Here's the link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=511343
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Bigpipstan
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Founded: Apr 21, 2020
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Bigpipstan » Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:08 am

Any tips for improvemenst?
viewforum.php?f=6&start=25
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Neu Engollon
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Postby Neu Engollon » Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:00 pm

Noristoniaka wrote:Could anyone give me tips on how to improve my storefront? Nothing really has happened.

Here's the link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=511343


Short answer: I like the formatting and logo. Needs more images and brief product descriptions - longer than what you have, but not necessarily exhausting. Overall, a great start. You also reserved an extra expansion post. That's a great move and GE&T 101. I would probably have reserved even more, but for what you're doing, it should be adequate. Also, you can always move your catalog to a separate thread if need be, so there's that.

Bigpipstan wrote:Any tips for improvemenst [sic]?
viewforum.php?f=6&start=25


For all of the GE&T forum? That's a pretty broad topic.
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Neu Engollon
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Postby Neu Engollon » Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:23 pm

Crookfur wrote:IIRC using the name of an RL business is pretty much a no-no.
Doing so does theoretically expose the site to litigation and whilst a lot of it infringement on ns flys under the radar, the site does get noticed as the whole UN thing illustrated.
Secondly like using any RL thing it just leads to arguments about who owns what and who gets to use the RL name. In a closed rp where you are playing qatar then yeah it's to be expected that there is a Qatar Airways in your nation) but in the wild world of open NS, well you ain't going to be rhe only Qatar.

Using ye olde trick of a similar but slightly changed name is probably a far more safe and useful approach, possibly more fun too. Pater or katar airways would probably be close enough.


I was waiting for more feedback from NS staff to refute this, but they are legitimately busy. It's a tough topic and a definite gray area. I did actually inquire about the issue to my barrister friend who is experienced in patent/copyright law. Basically, it all boils down to will Max stand by players utilizing his site? From precedent, the ultimate answer is MAYBE. Fair use/parody is a thing. When there's no possible gain to the player, that is a factor, but the fact that Max can generate revenue from the site makes things a bit awkward as they can go after him with legitimate reason, if not the player using the site. A counter example to the Allevia one is the UN vs WA controversy. A C&D (cease and desist) letter was sent and Max and Co. abided rather than tangle in the courts with a major world organization's legal team.

While a company and its legal team can easily be shot down in a court for trying to go after someone who is acting in good faith and not trying to steal IP for their own profit, but simply making a parody; that doesn't mean they won't attempt it as a legal tactic to shut down the entity/persons infringing on their IP. While it may be frivolous, it is still likely to make that person mocking (or paying tribute) to the IP hesitate as they have to spend effort and money to fight a suit, and likely hire legal counsel to represent them in court. Even if the suit brought is bogus and more than likely to be thrown out. It has to go to a judge for that to happen. Hence why C&D letters usually work even if there's not much of a substantial case to back them, because it's not worth the hassle for the 'little guy' to fight it and show up in court.

So, in that regard, if someone goes out of their way to rip from RL companies, that puts the site in needless jeopardy and Max and Co. should not have to go to bat for them. Coincidentally using a company name as a nation name is one thing, while deliberately using a corporate name for a 'fake' corporation is a bit of a different issue.

tl;dr version: Just don't. Even if you have the best intentions. Make up something different, but maybe similar and you avoid having the site we love have to deal with unnecessary legal BS. It really can come down to just changing a few letters or less.

EDIT: I should also mention that Max has written more than one book using RL company names in a satirical manner. Syrup anyone? Jennifer Government? However, you're not Max. That's his choice to take on those companies should they take issue with it. Not really your choice to do that for Max and NS, unless you use your own platform aside from NS.
Last edited by Neu Engollon on Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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