What improvements would you like to see for GE&T?

[Crookfur]

I'm submitting it today; I'm free again.

God I remember submission day for my masters, the second biggest amount of faffing, pointless running about and general wasted time due to university bureaucracy I have ever experienced. The biggest amount was day 1 at uni...

[Argentinstan]

I kind of wish the nation state tracker or nation state economy sites for working again I've been doing rping on nation-states since 2012 and micromanaging helps with the economy

Well I've been using for currency exchanges and that helped a lot with trading in region and on this forum.
Maybe NS could develop an official tracking method?

[Lamoni]

I kind of wish the nation state tracker or nation state economy sites for working again I've been doing rping on nation-states since 2012 and micromanaging helps with the economy

Well I've been using for currency exchanges and that helped a lot with trading in region and on this forum.
Maybe NS could develop an official tracking method?

That would likely require a coding change, so that likely will not happen.

[Argentinstan]

Well I've been using for currency exchanges and that helped a lot with trading in region and on this forum.
Maybe NS could develop an official tracking method?

That would likely require a coding change, so that likely will not happen.

Ok but that would certainly keep a consistent service NS players can count on and use.

[Lamoni]

The mods have more than once (even in this very thread) stated that they will not be making changes to the site coding.

[New Aeyariss]

And mind you, very few people use trackers nowdays.

I designed economy of Nifon from the scratch...

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

And even those that do use trackers often only regard them is as merely 'indicative' or a basis for their own modifications.

A tag system might well be a good idea. Thank you, L&A. We'll look into making a list of tags that can be used, without creating so many tags that the system itself would become meaningless.

Always my pleasure to assist - perhaps if you're also having trouble thinking of how to make a simultaneously long enough and short enough list, maybe one tag for broad categories of business and then more tags for particular sets of products might work!

I'm submitting it today; I'm free again.

God I remember submission day for my masters, the second biggest amount of faffing, pointless running about and general wasted time due to university bureaucracy I have ever experienced. The biggest amount was day 1 at uni...

Indeed... nice to know my experience wasn't unique. Congratulations on getting through it, Maltropia!

[Common Territories]

Don't know if anyone has linked to Quester's thread concerning trackers/calculators, but I think it would be good info to share concerning this topic: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5578

[Lamoni]

We do have a good list of forum tags, but we will likely be revealing them when we come out with a couple of new threads for GE&T. Have patience, everyone.

[Australian rePublic]

So since we can't have seperate subforum, how about categories? For example, select or unselect from the following:

Modern Tech
Military (Air Force, Navy)
IT
Space
Airlines/Airports
Ship
Hotels
etc.

[Kyrusia]

So since we can't have seperate subforum, how about categories? For example, select or unselect from the following:

Modern Tech
Military (Air Force, Navy)
IT
Space
Airlines/Airports
Ship
Hotels
etc.

I believe something akin to this, mated with the concept of thread tags/keyword search items, is what the GE&T Mentor team is working on as we speak. It requires no new coding, no Forum Admin work, and while is self-selective, we hope it will be useful once deployed. (Your patience is appreciated; there's a lot of relative information regarding GE&T that the team has to compile, collate, and present.) We're also trying to keep down on potential duplications or redundancy, keeping the system as clean and broad as possible, while still being specific enough to be useful.

[Australian rePublic]

So since we can't have seperate subforum, how about categories? For example, select or unselect from the following:

Modern Tech
Military (Air Force, Navy)
IT
Space
Airlines/Airports
Ship
Hotels
etc.

I believe something akin to this, mated with the concept of thread tags/keyword search items, is what the GE&T Mentor team is working on as we speak. It requires no new coding, no Forum Admin work, and while is self-selective, we hope it will be useful once deployed. (Your patience is appreciated; there's a lot of relative information regarding GE&T that the team has to compile, collate, and present.) We're also trying to keep down on potential duplications or redundancy, keeping the system as clean and broad as possible, while still being specific enough to be useful.

Yeay!

[I didnt vote for Trump]

Hopefully some basic templates for storefronts such as airports or airlines.

Oh dear no.

Templates while fine for wikis and factbook articles are to be honest a bit of a plague on GE&T a result in a lot of indentikit storefronts.

It might work if the templates were very very basic to enable (or more or less require) people to expand and diversify from them.

In my personal opinion there has over the last few years been far too much of a drive towards form and achieving some ideal appearance over actual content.
Everyone who is putting in more than a basic bit of effort into thier storefronts recently seems to think that there is a necessity for screeds and screeds of background, history and all sorts of information where as frankly there isn't. Honestly what real company puts the stuff it is trying to sell behind more than paragraph of "Who we are and what we do"? Yes they might have all sorts of detailed history and "why we are da best" but its all very secondary and keenly focused on selling the actual products/services/solutions. There is nothing I personally hate more than having to scroll through several paragraphs of often dry and frankly downright boring of bumph before i get to the good stuff and belive me you can really tell the difference between a writer who is really into writing such stuff and someone who feels they have to do it because thats what a "good" storefront has to have.

The key to a good storefront is to enjoy what you are doing and focus on what you enjoy wiritng and creating and anything that feels a chore should be relagated until you can find some kind of passion to get it done.

Ok now that i have kicked over the wasp's nest its time to move onto the hornet's nest that is crticism.

Frankly its the lack of it that is a big problem on GE&T and honestly this lack is hurting a lot of otherwise promising content.

As it stands we only really have TGs and the "Realism" and associated threads on FN&I and both are pretty terrible.

TGs are likely fine for many of you but I simply hate them both becuase i find them very cumbersome and due to the fact that to be effective a critque has to be at least semi public. Not just to make consideration of the criticism offered more likely, in fact thats a fairly minor part, but because none of us are perfect and get everything right all the time and generally several different veiw points combined will offer far more than listening to one self proclaimed wisened sage.

The Realsim etc threads are awful as they have become far far too cliquy and more about internal memes, borderline trolling and personal theories than real advice and discussion (although some of us try).

Saddly i can't think of a workable solution outside of raising the spectre of the Draftroom(or soemthign similar) but that could only work if new blood were to be fully on board and cohesive enough to desire and support it

I just think we need to give up on the hope that realism will be eventually become a prized facet for economic roleplaying in GE&T. Previously, six or seven years ago and before when I was most active, the average age of the forum seemed a lot higher and there were more college students and professionals who were posting on the boards. At the very least it seemed that way, there were evidently some high school aged kids in the mix of roleplayers as well but for the most part, it was an 18+ community. Now there's been a distinct shift in the age profile; it's younger, there's more high school kids than before and there's also a lot more middle school age kids than before. I have a couple of theories as to why this is the case but that doesn't matter, it's definitely a younger community now.

I'll stop here and say I have nothing against kids, but herein lies the problem: we cannot expect a former standard to be upheld when the current participants on this forum probably aren't capable enough to meet it. The experience isn't there, the writing skills aren't there and the understanding of scientific principles isn't there because the average age is now 3 or 4 years less than what it was. Mightn't sound like much, but when you put 3-4 years in terms of academic content, it amounts to a lot. And no offense to any of the younger members on this forum, but the maturity to take criticism and learn from it is also sorely lacking in younger age groups. The ability to handle critique probably comes of age, but it's frustrating to provide thoughtful and benevolent critique that continually bounces back. I say benevolent for a reason, because these forums have long held a few posters that "critique" to blow their own trumpet and bring others down a peg or two.

Even on the realism threads on F&NI, the older crew have all virtually disappeared except for a small handful and out of that older crew, almost all of the true experts (the ones with experience, not just knowledge, in particular military fields) have ceased checking in on here. What you're left with are some people who know about things through reading blogs and publications, but mostly people who seem to just parrot what they've seen other people say. Simply put, the expertise is no longer here anymore and it's much harder to teach something without it.

I used to share your opinion, but now I've come to accept that whether or not something is realistic or well-researched isn't necessary to roleplay on these forums anymore and maybe it never was in the first place.

[Yohannes]

I just think we need to give up on the hope that realism will be eventually become a prized facet for economic roleplaying in GE&T. Previously, six or seven years ago and before when I was most active, the average age of the forum seemed a lot higher and there were more college students and professionals who were posting on the boards. At the very least it seemed that way, there were evidently some high school aged kids in the mix of roleplayers as well but for the most part, it was an 18+ community. Now there's been a distinct shift in the age profile; it's younger, there's more high school kids than before and there's also a lot more middle school age kids than before. I have a couple of theories as to why this is the case but that doesn't matter, it's definitely a younger community now.

I'll stop here and say I have nothing against kids, but herein lies the problem: we cannot expect a former standard to be upheld when the current participants on this forum probably aren't capable enough to meet it. The experience isn't there, the writing skills aren't there and the understanding of scientific principles isn't there because the average age is now 3 or 4 years less than what it was. Mightn't sound like much, but when you put 3-4 years in terms of academic content, it amounts to a lot. And no offense to any of the younger members on this forum, but the maturity to take criticism and learn from it is also sorely lacking in younger age groups. The ability to handle critique probably comes of age, but it's frustrating to provide thoughtful and benevolent critique that continually bounces back. I say benevolent for a reason, because these forums have long held a few posters that "critique" to blow their own trumpet and bring others down a peg or two.

Even on the realism threads on F&NI, the older crew have all virtually disappeared except for a small handful and out of that older crew, almost all of the true experts (the ones with experience, not just knowledge, in particular military fields) have ceased checking in on here. What you're left with are some people who know about things through reading blogs and publications, but mostly people who seem to just parrot what they've seen other people say. Simply put, the expertise is no longer here anymore and it's much harder to teach something without it.

I used to share your opinion, but now I've come to accept that whether or not something is realistic or well-researched isn't necessary to roleplay on these forums anymore and maybe it never was in the first place.

[ Edit2: just to clarify, I agree with you ]

On top of all the above you have said, we also have more Gameplayers (and others from outside the traditional RPing circles) being involved in the NationStates, International Incidents, and Global Economics & Trade sub forums now. The forums are not what they were back in your day (and it will never go back to the way it was). For those who are well-versed in using multiple alternate accounts (and RPing multiple forum personalities), it's very clear that there have been a lot of alternate accounts RPing around the National and International Roleplaying sub forums these days. Gameplay, RP (traditional sub forums), and regional politics are more interlinked than ever.

Secondly, the creation of the Portal to the Multiverse sub forum years back further changed the traditional NS RP sub forums (Fb&I, NS, II, GE&T) and took some potential regulars (people who would otherwise be here and contribute to activity, but are instead posting regularly in PTM sub forum)

I have said this back in 2015 (when I first noticed all the above overall changes) and I will say it again: Global Economics & Trade is declining (I have said this back in 2015, but no one believed me; instead I believe a couple of people condemned me for 'giving up on the community' and 'you are not the Yohannes that I knew anymore'). Well, look we are in 2017 and I have been proven right. All the above that I have said have been proven right. The people who used to post here frequently (and that includes me, I know, I am guilty myself ) are gone; there's no way to tell 'what is right' or 'what is wrong' for the newcomers to look at anymore.

I will be honest here, when I first entered this sub forum in 2010, I had people who I could look up to and learn from; that's how I got here, not by myself, but supported by those who used to criticise me/made fun of me/helped me/RPed with me. When people looked back to the whole 'G20 Global Economy' group thing (I believe people like Allanea, Lamoni, Lyras, Stoklomolvi, Santheres, etc.) will remember that, some people may go 'wow... people were mean to Yohannes back then'. People were not nice to me (and yes, looking back I disliked the fact that people were not gentler with me), but was it necessary? It was. And please do not tell me that 'Yohannes is not 15 years old, that's why he was able to listen and learn.' I was a very childish person back then (and still is ) and in fact I got warned by Sedgistan (and other Mods) for spamming here and there. So I was immature (just as bad as the many younger people you are talking about)

But there were people who were not afraid to openly criticise me (they didn't care about their internet reputation; instead, they only wanted to tell me that I did not follow the community's RP convention and I should follow it). That was how I was able to climb my way up to the top, because I had people that I could learn from, and there were people who were not afraid to tell me what they think (if I had done something wrong) was wrong.

How about now? Well. See, if say I am a 2017 player, and this is my first day entering the Global Economics & Trade sub forum: I will have no hope of learning anything at all. Why is that? Because people are all trying to be too nice and too good (again, I am guilty of this myself, so pot calling the kettle black ). Not wanting to soil/ruin their internet reputation by saying what they think is right. If those who are supposed to be the pillars of the RPing communities understandably don't want to ruin their reputations by posting things that may offend new players (who can potentially look up to them), then who will? No one.

I have said this once in 2015 and I will say it again: today (or at least, since 2015), there is no such thing as a 'GE&T community'. That was back in 2015 and no one listened to me. Instead, I got OOC wise condemned and as a result I got people disliking me for saying what I think was right (which has become a reality now, today in 2017, as we look all around the GE&T sub forum) But. We all can be sad and weep for the past and all. Or, we can say "No we will not give up" and build a community out of this now empty (literally) sub forum. There are many good things about present GE&T (for one, it is more open-minded, and two, it is an empty shell of its former self, meaning we (those who have the capacity to bring about change) can carve out something beautiful out of that empty shell). But long talk and long discussion (like what I have done here, or Crookfur has done, or you yourself have done, or the others in the thread here have done) will not change anything. The time for long talk and long discussion is over (in fact, we are 2 years too late; 2015 was 2 years ago). We need to start doing something about this (and we can)

Instead of fighting the tide (the fact that, as you have said, the forums are younger, or as I have said, there are more alts coming from non RPers running around now), we should use it to our advantage. That way we can include everyone, whilst still having those core principles intact (this is what you should do in GE&T, this is what you should not do in GE&T, this that this that)

Edit: Another thing to take into account. Since 2010 (really), there has been a large gap between the Global Economics & Trade sub forum and the realism threads in the Factbook & National sub forum. By 2012 (I believe, though others would say 2011) this process of separation was pretty much complete. GE&T caters to different people (and more casuals) than the realism threads in the F&NI sub forum. I believe once we accept this fact (that GE&T has not and has never been realistic, or at least the whole 'storefront' thing has never been realistic anyway [ I got multiple links to threads from 2006 NationStates Jolt forum to back this statement up]) then we all can finally move on and be happy

The realism threads in F&NI sub forum have clearly created their own community (and a very robust and strong community at that! Excellent community). But now it is time for GE&T to create its own community (completely separate from the traditional 'realism' standard/convention). I am thinking of something like the General Assembly sub forum community (flexible and all, but with a very strong hierarchy [top people, middle people, new players, etc.] and RP convention)

Edit3: Some people will say: The guides are there for people to see. People have been using this line since 2015 (when people started to hold the line that 'we need to step back and let people come to us by themselves'. Well as people can see it has been 2 years now and there has been no improvement in the Global Economics & Trade sub forum. If anything, it has become more decentralised and has become more empty (than it was in 2015, which by the way was decentralised and empty too). I believe that 2 years is long enough a period for us to finally say: We can do better than this.)

[Electrum Diplomatic Offices]

Sorry if I'm repeating stuff that's been mentioned before, haven't had the time to read through the post (and not sure if you guys want to see my improvements since i've only been here for months at a time before promptly disappearing -- anyways I'm digressing...)

• An accreditation/feedback agency, kind of like what Ceneria did, show newer users what they should be aiming for: there are a lot of low-quality threads.
• Perhaps maybe have a storefront of the week/month, and sticky it? This might not work out well since we need an unbiased opinion for this. Again, helps give an idea on what a high effort thread looks like.
• More encouragement towards non-aviation storefronts -- a quick look at the front page reveals not much diversity (although this is easier said than done, we can encourage more thread diversity) as well as more encouragement towards threads that have some clear effort put into it (it may be disheartening to put in effort in a thread and not get patronage)
• Another thread in addition to the help desk -- to bounce around ideas
• Collaboration with other subforums? I see a lot of military threads on F+NI, so there could be a place where they could sell weapons here
• More IC interaction beyond the niceties of writing a template and getting a response on a thread, such as an IC-newsletter (e.g. you could have CEOs discussing their companies)
• A listing of active threads to point people the right way (perhaps a requirement of at least one months activity before being put on the list --
  so as to cull those short-term threads)

All of these things vastly increase the workload of anyone who gets the unfortunate role of being in charge of implementing those suggestions, so you need not implement them all -- these are just ideas, nothing more, nothing less.

[Valkea]

An accreditation/feedback agency, kind of like what Ceneria did, show newer users what they should be aiming for: there are a lot of low-quality threads.

Indeed. Someone should bring it back. Not me though, I wanna be accredited too and it would be pretentious giving a review to myself.

More encouragement towards non-aviation storefronts -- a quick look at the front page reveals not much diversity (although this is easier said than done, we can encourage more thread diversity) as well as more encouragement towards threads that have some clear effort put into it (it may be disheartening to put in effort in a thread and not get patronage)

Definitely. Personally I'd like more tech storefronts to show up.

Another thread in addition to the help desk -- to bounce around ideas

Isn't there NS Draftroom though? Can we bring it or something similar over to NS?

More IC interaction beyond the niceties of writing a template and getting a response on a thread, such as an IC-newsletter (e.g. you could have CEOs discussing their companies)

Possible. I mean, turning storefronts into full-fledged IC threads isn't a bad idea, but that would require a gradual shift away from the "buying and selling" culture of GE&T towards that direction, which may need some encouragement.

A listing of active threads to point people the right way (perhaps a requirement of at least one months activity before being put on the list --
so as to cull those short-term threads)

Yohannes' list works as one methinks.

[Prosorusiya]

I'd like to see a way to get people posted on official storefront guide, that didn't rely quite so much on humans since at this point the backlog is insurmountable. Like maybe having a tag or something people who want to be listed could put on their storefront, which could then be collected by a bot or something and submitted to moderation? Basically that page is like the YellowPages of NS, except that very few people get listed on it, and most of them are established storefront that as a result get all the business.

The page also used to help new storefront owners be inspired to do things besides Airlines, which I think get made mainly because there is a guide for it. Another Airline Owner here, freely admitting I am part of the problem.

A thread to handle one off deals, like a kind of Craigslist, would be good. Storefront owners could browse it for buyers, or individual sellers\buyers could communicate with each other to work out one off deals (like say buying some extra APCs or Fighter Jets or something).

A group for PT storefront, like the one for PT RPs, would be nice. There used to be more of these back in the day, and even then they were rare.

[Lamoni]

I'd like to see a way to get people posted on official storefront guide, that didn't rely quite so much on humans since at this point the backlog is insurmountable. Like maybe having a tag or something people who want to be listed could put on their storefront, which could then be collected by a bot or something and submitted to moderation? Basically that page is like the YellowPages of NS, except that very few people get listed on it, and most of them are established storefront that as a result get all the business.

The page also used to help new storefront owners be inspired to do things besides Airlines, which I think get made mainly because there is a guide for it. Another Airline Owner here, freely admitting I am part of the problem.

A thread to handle one off deals, like a kind of Craigslist, would be good. Storefront owners could browse it for buyers, or individual sellers\buyers could communicate with each other to work out one off deals (like say buying some extra APCs or Fighter Jets or something).

A group for PT storefront, like the one for PT RPs, would be nice. There used to be more of these back in the day, and even then they were rare.

Something is currently in the works. Can't say more, atm.

[Sacrosanct Group]

I'd like to see a way to get people posted on official storefront guide, that didn't rely quite so much on humans since at this point the backlog is insurmountable. Like maybe having a tag or something people who want to be listed could put on their storefront, which could then be collected by a bot or something and submitted to moderation? Basically that page is like the YellowPages of NS, except that very few people get listed on it, and most of them are established storefront that as a result get all the business.

The page also used to help new storefront owners be inspired to do things besides Airlines, which I think get made mainly because there is a guide for it. Another Airline Owner here, freely admitting I am part of the problem.

A thread to handle one off deals, like a kind of Craigslist, would be good. Storefront owners could browse it for buyers, or individual sellers\buyers could communicate with each other to work out one off deals (like say buying some extra APCs or Fighter Jets or something).

A group for PT storefront, like the one for PT RPs, would be nice. There used to be more of these back in the day, and even then they were rare.

Something is currently in the works. Can't say more, atm.

Wow, that’s really something to look forward to! Can’t wait for it.

[Awesome Break-Away of 250land]

Not so much just GE&T but a mobile version of the forum would be awesome! The rest of NationStates is nicely done but I spend most of my time on the forums.

[Lamoni]

Not so much just GE&T but a mobile version of the forum would be awesome! The rest of NationStates is nicely done but I spend most of my time on the forums.

Unfortunately, we cannot entertain changes to the forum or website coding at this time.

EDIT: Our project for GE&T is still underway, it is just taking time due to RL issues on the part of the mentor(s) working on it. Thank you.

[Prosorusiya]

Another thought I just had, is perhaps the idea of forming more guilds for different areas of bisuness. It would be a good goal for newbies to try and aim for in terms of quality, and give old hands something new(ish) to do in terms of mentoring.

On another note, I also think having maybe like a weekly “best storefront” sticky is a great idea, it would give everyone a chance at having a short time in the spotlight. Maybe grade on a couple different things, like best new storefront, most creative, Ect. .

[Azadeshia]

Another thought I just had, is perhaps the idea of forming more guilds for different areas of bisuness. It would be a good goal for newbies to try and aim for in terms of quality, and give old hands something new(ish) to do in terms of mentoring.

On another note, I also think having maybe like a weekly “best storefront” sticky is a great idea, it would give everyone a chance at having a short time in the spotlight. Maybe grade on a couple different things, like best new storefront, most creative, Ect. .

BEST....IDEA.....EVER!

[Tippercommon]

Hi. Just wanted to let everybody know that I've updated one of my storefront formatting guides to be specifically about Storefront Navigation. This will be part of a series of upcoming guides that will be about Visual Design and user experience for storefronts.

If anyone has any comments I'd be happy to hear.

[Syrche]

[SNIP]

What if we had a system of organization in place? A catalogue, so to speak, in which each different category would have a sub folder to help keep it organized....

for Example:

1. Military
2. Transportation
3. Electronics
4. Clothing
5. Food and Beverages
6. Entertainment
7. Financial, Realty and Organizations
8. General Sales
9. OTHER // MISC

[SNIP].

WHAT IF we just got people to put a description in the Topic Title?
we would have a Universal Standard, or Key, (similar to the above) that everyone would follow and then all you have to do is type [ELECTRONICS] OR [MILITARY] or whichever to get a certain category?

IE: Weske Automobiles [WIP][AUTOMOBILES]