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Reichsburg Free Trade Agreement

A meeting place where national storefronts can tout their wares and discuss trade. [In character]

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Vovodoco
Diplomat
 
Posts: 582
Founded: Sep 07, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vovodoco » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:44 am

President Gage Voss of Vovodoco signs.
CALL ME VOVO. I'm a proud member of the LMTU. Are you?
Enlist in the house of Liberties and fight the good fight in the Worldly Debate Region! Explore our open embassy/trade policy for those who'd like to debate/discuss with us!

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Libraria and Ausitoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6826
Founded: May 30, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Libraria and Ausitoria » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:37 pm

Allanea wrote:OOC:
I would prefer, vastly, if this discussion became an IC discussion again.

OOC: Ditto.

So really quickly, just so we can move on: "Spying" is etymologically derived from the old french "Espie", which had a broader meaning akin to “observe”. I understand this broader meaning is very uncommon these days in America. It is not uncommon in Britain, or at least the circles/bubbles I move in, and it is frequent in Ausitoria.

I should also have mentioned (0) The submarines were not in Spirean waters. (Although quite what anyone regards to constitute territorial waters is a matter of any amount of contention. Possibly we should look at having a Naval conference to see if there is any chance of the major naval powers coming to an agreement).

So: Ctan, you haven't yet answered my question - and also Allanea - are you maintaining that any of " the Commonwealth violated the territorial waters of the Beastling States with multiple nuclear-armed ballistic missile submarines. [...] Sir Wooley refused to enter a plea; and despite repeated efforts, the nation of Ausitoria and Chattakang would not provide for his legal defence [...] He served this sentence in the Bayan Prison and was released after six years on conditional early release, and immediately expelled back to his homeland." is what you OOCly think is true? A quick yes or no would suffice please.

Because if your answer to the question is "yes", then because mine is "no", because I can find no historical evidence for it, we would have a disagreement about history, so what you're saying is not in my canon, so I'd ignore it: we shouldn't RP about the past without agreeing what happened.

If, on the other hand, your answer is "no", then I shall edit in my IC response here.

The Ctan wrote:I'm amused you think that the hospital wouldn't spot coma-inducing levels of barbituates in his bloodwork. But hey ho. It was five out-of-character years ago, my timeline's advanced faster than that; this being nationstates I'm sure you've dealt with people who have had different amounts of time pass before.

Active nanotargetting would allow for a significant reduction in the dose required, and efforts would have be made to make it more undetectable, from shielding to decoys to mixed selection of unknown equivalents. Since 2012, I've acquired some actual expertise in the subject, so I'm aware that strictly speaking the technology was probably highly experimental in 2016, although of course one can’t be sure with defence laboratories. But on the other hand in those days most of us were RPing with LyrasTech, and the Ausitorians weren't above experimenting. Given that most nations seemed to be using magic I'm assuming we can be a bit flexible here…

Wrangling and handwringing about OOC details of an RP that's five years in the past is not likely to get you the influence you crave.

That's fine: I have no interest in influence. I am simply RPing the international interactions of a highly complex society which is seemingly functioning in a manner beyond the comprehension of most of nationstates - because it's being run by financial and legal experts who refer matters of interpretation to the judiciary to seize back the futures which they have put aside from their aid budgets for other nations. (It's much easier to confiscate other people's money if they haven't been given it yet).

Please don’t think I’m RPing to restore my reputation, which I am sure is quite beyond anyone's ability to recover, even if anyone felt inclined to improve it. I’m RPing to analyse your reactions and interact with your projections, which is my idea of fun. I must say it's most interesting to observe the international reactions and the level of discourse.

Neu Engollon - thank you for keeping things IC - but in fairness I should briefly mention, in case you aren’t aware, that any legal/financial experts would advise you not to waste resources on being "prepared". It is quite clear (to experts inside the bubble) that the Commonwealth has no warlike intent, and will merely deprive you of aid which you haven't been given from them. (My apologies to all bloodthirsty warmongers who were hoping for a confrontation). They would also advise you that there is actually a decent chance the court will find in Allanea's favour on the question of how to interpret "punitive tariffs", depending a bit on Yohannes'/other contributions; in the interests of aligning Commonwealth interpretations with the international understanding of the manner in which treaties should be interpreted by the author, and also in the interests of extending the principles of purposive construction; although they will almost certainly find in the Commonwealth & Confederacy's favour on the question of "reputational damages", about which there is very little uncertainty. And they would also point out that all the organizations are well staffed, so that there is nothing suspicious about the fact that they both replied quickly. Of course whether your nation would consult with experts and agree with this advice is entirely their affair, and your calculation.

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North Polemi
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Jan 12, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Free Trade Agreement

Postby North Polemi » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:32 pm

I would love to join your free trade agreement

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Allanea
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21728
Founded: Antiquity
Corporate Bordello

Postby Allanea » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:53 pm

OOC:

So: Ctan, you haven't yet answered my question - and also Allanea - are you maintaining that any of " the Commonwealth violated the territorial waters of the Beastling States with multiple nuclear-armed ballistic missile submarines. [...] Sir Wooley refused to enter a plea; and despite repeated efforts, the nation of Ausitoria and Chattakang would not provide for his legal defence [...] He served this sentence in the Bayan Prison and was released after six years on conditional early release, and immediately expelled back to his homeland." is what you OOCly think is true? A quick yes or no would suffice please.


Just to be clear:

1. I don’t have any OOC knowledge of what constitutes the territorial waters of the Beastling States, and do not care. Allanea is not a signatory to any treaty on the matter, and generally keeps to more or less the standard definitions of territorial waters, except special circumstances, where a state or group of states has a long-standing claim over a large body of water. Some regions have regional treaties mandating different definitions – at one point Haven recognized ‘regional waters’ as having special status distinct from international waters, and did not allow fleets or warships from outside theregion entrance, and Greater Prussia has a similar rule. I do not exactly know what the in-character claims the Beastling States have, nor do they care.

In terms of what my government believes, it suffices that an Ausitorian ambassador, at an international conference, drew a weapon (the Allanean legal system does not distinguish ‘non-lethal’ weapons as a class, as there is no such thing as a ‘non-lethal’ weapon in reality, only weapons which – like police clubs, rubber bullets, and indeed tranquilizers – have a reduced, but non-zero chance, of doing a person serious injury), and then tried to fire it at a foreign head of state, with the intent of kidnapping them. In Allanea’s view this was a hugely foolish and disruptive action, even though we now regard the Beastling States in a very dim light.

I am simply RPing the international interactions of a highly complex society which is seemingly functioning in a manner beyond the comprehension of most of nationstates

Just to be clear here: It’s not that my government ‘cannot comprehend’ the legal system of Ausitoria or whatever. It’s that my government – based on its previous experiences with a variety of states in the Nationstates multiverse – views the attempts to appeal to complex standards of legality, and particularly adaptations for NS of the Westphalian/continental legal system, without even ascertaining whether other states recognize or care about the legal standards, as a form of double-dealing.

Allaneans believe – this is an in-character view my characters have, and I don’t necessarily fully share – that people who attempt to claim that the foundational moral and social issues facing sapient-kind are extremely complicated are in fact double-dealing and attempting to lure them into avoiding a solution to the issues. You may want to familiarize yourself with the Allanean Cultural Memeplex which explains this in some more detail.
Last edited by Allanea on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Ctan
Minister
 
Posts: 2697
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Ctan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:02 pm

Allanea has said it succinctly. In short your answer is 'yes' to your question Ausi.
"If any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others. When I hear anyone arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." ~ Abraham Lincoln
"The Necrons were amongst the first beings to come into existance, and have sworn that they will rule over the living." - Still surprisingly accurate!
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Edenson
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Jan 12, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Edenson » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:51 pm

13/01/2018
Dear Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Allanea)
It is with my greatest pleasure to inform you that the governing body has come to the decision that it would be in the best interest for The Kingdom of Edenson to accept your kind offer and become part of The Reichsburg Free Trade Agreement. We as a nation are strong but with this new found relationship between Edenson, Allanea and the other nations the future looks bright. We are looking forward to the years ahead and may there be many.
Your Sincerely
David Parker
Head of The Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Edenson

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