The 2nd Meeting of the JSF (OOC, with a littleICsprinkledin)

[Western cuba]

Lopez was interested in this rank he wondered what he would be assigned to. If he had stayed in the JSF in the Battlefield and had not announced his retirement from combat he knew that he would have probably a high rank however though since he was still in the JSF he wanted to know if his work still paid off.

" Tomas do you mind showing us what ranks we are assigned to? "

[Strykla]

Sheppard spoke up. "About the ranks issue - Even though I may be a Captain, I do not command anybody here. The international part of this group's rank system gets in the way. However, Mr. Tomas, the ranks probably shouldn't be like an Intelligence Agency or SOG. In my estimation, ranks should be given with the time of service in the JSF."

[Western cuba]

Lopez spoke " I agree partly with Sheppard's statement. It is true one should be part of the JSF for a long time. However though you also got to look at who the person is. Just not if he's been in the JSF for a while. This is just an example but let's say uh one of us been a member of the JSF ever since it was formed. That's outstanding but what if you did nothing to help the organization. You shouldn't be awarded just for time in the JSF. "

Viktor rose up and stated his thought. " Well I must say the veterans of the JSF should be given a higher rank than the other's. However though I think we should put a trust in our newbies of our group. As we need to show our potential in the JSF. May I suggest a squad led by me consisting of several new members in the JSF? "

[Strykla]

Sheppard was inclined to disagree.
"While you may believe that a group formed only of new JSF members would be a good idea, it should much rather be veterans and FNGs in the same squads. This allows the new people to learn more faster from the veterans, and segregating units encourages rivalry. That is absolutely unacceptable in a military unit unless the units are not on the same faction."

[Obamacain]

Sheppard was inclined to disagree.
"While you may believe that a group formed only of new JSF members would be a good idea, it should much rather be veterans and FNGs in the same squads. This allows the new people to learn more faster from the veterans, and segregating units encourages rivalry. That is absolutely unacceptable in a military unit unless the units are not on the same faction."

"I didn't say we would separate groups between their experiences. What I was referring to would be to distribute the people of equal rank between the groups so that all the groups are fairly equalized," Tomas clarified.

[Western cuba]

Viktor rose, " Tomas he was talking towards me. He disagrees with my statement. However though you calling me an FNG quite upset's me. I believe that I am a gift to the JSF. You had a great soldier in Lopez. A loyal one to. However though I believe I can do even better for the JSF. Juan has a family to stand up for. I got nothing so that means almost nothing is in my way. I will fight to the death. So Sheppard please consider before you call me a newb. "

[Reformed Britannia]

"Well," O'Rourke spoke after a long period of silence and after shaking Viktor's hand, "back in the B.E.F. we had a theory that it was the NCOs and officer corps which really made a fighting force effective. So it would be a wise idea to put less seasoned troopers under the command of more experiences NCOs or officers, whereas more experienced troopers would be more capable of fighting their way out of a situation that a less experienced officer had accidentally put them in."

[New Alabasta]

"We are a team, are we not? Should we not then treat each other as equals? It would certainly end the petty squabbling."

[Dimoniquid]

"We are a team, are we not? Should we not then treat each other as equals? It would certainly end the petty squabbling."

"Yet someone with less experience than other people leading a team can get us all killed." James replied.

[Novograd IV]

"We are a team, are we not? Should we not then treat each other as equals? It would certainly end the petty squabbling."

"Yet someone with less experience than other people leading a team can get us all killed." James replied.

"Or raise it to new levels because the idiots and veterans have no leverage over each other" Laiho added

He had sobered up quickly at the sound of a woman making an attempt at conversation that didn't involve the preparation of food or a proposition for some of the Laiho love machine; Grabbing his wits, he rushed to the field of psychological operations in his mind

OOC: you'll learn soon enough

Ask Rodama if you need some help

[Western cuba]

Viktor was confused what was this stereotype on the FNG's being bad all about. " Guys I do not get this? You think we are newb's and unexperienced? Sure that first happened when I arrived at boot camp, but I have now spent years in the army. There's a reason I'm being sent to the JSF you know? This is a Special Ops group. "

[Novograd IV]

Viktor was confused what was this stereotype on the FNG's being bad all about. " Guys I do not get this? You think we are newb's and unexperienced? Sure that first happened when I arrived at boot camp, but I have now spent years in the army. There's a reason I'm being sent to the JSF you know? This is a Special Ops group. "

OOC: for OOC reasons, because not everyone spent more than 8 years of their life IRL dedicated to the study of warfare.

[Western cuba]

OOC: Well I'm sure none of us had, however though many people probably had. Like leaders and generals.

[Novograd IV]

OOC: Well I'm sure none of us had, however though many people probably had. Like leaders and generals.

me...?

[Western cuba]

OOC: Really?

[Novograd IV]

OOC: Really?

OOC: the study of, yes.

It's always been, since I first saw military history, about how it all worked, and the fine bits. I'll admit the first few i could have picked up in a month at this age, but it's still time I spent researching everything, sometimes I'd stay in the school library for my whole lunch getting scraps of information from books.

Nowadays, I have guides on basic tactics, advanced tactics (CQB, Counter-insurgency, countersniping, guerilla warfare ect.) and a few armourers manuals.
I can take apart a G3, mosin nagant, and AK variant and know what I'm doing, and I have the manuals for a host of others that I still haven't got around to reading after my little interweb scavenger hunts.

I have a lot of data I collected from the time I've been studying things.

[Strykla]

Sheppard was quick to raise his point against that Cuban. "You may have had plenty of experience fighting wherever you may have fought, but you should know that joining a new unit will probably make the members of your unit skeptical. Saying you're good and all is one thing; proving it is another. Stand up to the face of Death, and you will have earned my respect. Until then, you are just as useless as the next new person." He than addressed the woman with the head dress.

"We are a team, are we not? Should we not then treat each other as equals? It would certainly end the petty squabbling."

"And you, ma'am, are one to talk. Giving somebody a shave with a knife may not count as squabbling in your book, but respect, as I said earlier, is earned by holding the line."
OOC: I'm trying to think of something to say in OOC

[Obamacain]

OOC: Well the main point of the IC ranking is to encourage more participation both IC and OOC. People tend to like their characters better if they have a fancy title and thus want to RP with them more, and if they have a crappy title their pride makes them want to improve it thereby RPing more - I hope

[Western cuba]

Viktor was angry at Sheppard he then shouted at him. " God damn it you mother fu** I am Cuban! I was abducted at the age of 5 and impressed into military school! I started boot camp at the age of 11. I started to go on military operations at the age of 16. Not the average kid does that sir. Me strength is that I have nothing to lose. My mother and father are dead, my brother was killed because he was disabled. I have nothing to do but fight, and I will do that. I am a gift to the JSF god damn it! "

OOC: That's pretty interesting. I don't know how to take a part those guns however my father has an Ak-47, that he used when he served with the Czech Army.

[Strykla]

OOC: Well, it's not like I'm going to make a "Lord Sheppard"(oh, the irony), but if there'll be a JSF equivalent to Captain I'll be happy to take it.
ICly: Sheppard was almost impressed by the man's outburst. Almost.
"You think you have it bad? I was forced into the military like every other young Stryklan. I was forced to undergo surgery to strengthen every part of my genes, just like every other young Stryklan. I lost an arm, a leg, and an eye! Can you say that? I've lost friends, I've lost family. We all have. So suck it the frak up!"

[Reformed Britannia]

O'Rourke saw this as a good time to try and step in and mediate, as he had learned to do back in his army days.
"Gents, I must say, if we're on the subject of improving the camaraderie of this unit, we're not off to a very good start. We've all had our baptism of fire here, and as soldiers, we ought to know better than anyone that real, genuine respect isn't something you're conscripted into or automatically gain for having been lit up a couple of times.' O'Rourke paused, placing his hands behind his back and trying to seem as inintrusive as possible.

"I don't know about your armies, gentlemen, but back in the Expeditionary Force, respect is something that is earned by actions, by soldiers demonstrating that they are worthy of the trust bestowed in them by their comrades, and by officers who get results without sacrificing the lives of their men. Therefore we can't assume that new additions to the JSF will automatically respect those who were there before them, because they haven't earned their respect yet. The same goes for the attitude towards new additions; they have to earn their respect. I realise that I myself am a new addition, but I assure you gentlemen that I have every intention of earning your respect as an officer of rank should." O'Rourke stood tall, pausing yet again before continuing.

"It is also my opinion that soldiers should be promoted based on merit rather than time served. You want good combat leaders and NCOs who are battle-tested. However, you don't want men who are incapable of command to be designated as the leaders of your fireteams, no matter how good they are as regular soldiers.'

[Western cuba]

Viktor was angry at Sheppard still. He wanted to just take out his gun and pop him in the head. To end the argument. However that would settle nothing but a visit to the brig for life. He decided that he should reason like the rest of them were doing.

" Merit Mr. O'Rourke, however though we all probably have our own definitions on what merit means. Some of us think one act is worth of praise and the other worth of shame. People all have a different view to everything, and I think it would be difficult to do a ranking system based on merit. "

Viktor continued his speech, " For example, one person may think that a single act deserve an award, and another person viewing the same act. Punishment. Establishing a rank system for the JSF will be very tough, and I think we should decide on who shall decide the ranking before we think of the reason for rank. "

[Mossat]

Asrawn had observed the fighting between the JSF soldiers, and realized that the better portion of their conflict may be useless. They argued over what is the better way to make some soldiers higher ranks and some lower ranks, when it did not have to be that way at all.

"I have a possible solution to our current problem," he said as he stood up.  He absently paced around the conference table as he spoke.

"What I believe we are arguing about is to make some soldiers of higher ranks and some of lower, yes?  The decision to place authority on the shoulders of a single man?  Back in the Mossacian Army, the few times that I worked with operatives of the Fiftieth Army--yes, the very Special Procedure Operations Divisions--I noticed some very peculiar methods of squad command.  Each and every SPOD operative was a Lieutenant, no differences in rank or authority. However, each man had his role in the fireteam--marksman, gunner, anti-armor specialist and the like.  The man who was assigned the Squad Leader was just another Lieutenant like the others, with the same battle experience as the others.  However, his role was not to command as would a commander of many men, but to make the best judgement call on the situation, and come up with the better plan of action.  If he would not be able to determine a plan, then he would allow his fireteam members to come up with one together, and in times that I have seen the plan of action that was eventually executed was not always drafted by the squad leader.  Maybe I digress with my example of the SPOD, as Mossat's Shadows have bonds of brotherhood stronger than steel, and maybe I cannot see the JSF teams performing such ad hoc commanding unless there is a very odd sort of camaraderie here.  What JSF needs to do is not value one man above the rest--not that the wisdom of our veterans is worth nothing, but we should be an autonomous unit, moving as one.  One group finds a target, one group gathers intel, one group makes the kill.  Everyone works in concert, for are we not an elite organization of the greatest special forces in the world?"


OOC: What I might be trying to say is that we may be doing the wrong thing.  In terms of operations, logistics and command, we are trying to determine who is the "commander" instead of who is the "leader." What I propose for JSF operations is such: we all determine what event is acted upon first.  Then over the course of that event, we split the operation into two groups: the fireteam and the advisors.  The "advisors" would be of equal rank, but would provide necessary tactical intel and assistance to the fireteam.  It is very much a Laisssez-Faire way of operating, but it is an alternative to having one person in command over the entire JSF. Again, sorry if I'm suggesting something that you are already doing, my knowledge of JSF actions is very limited.

[Obamacain]

OOC: the problem actually is thatyou guys are taking it way to deep ICly (which is fine but...), the ranking system as I have said before will just be a way to encourage activity between the group. Promotions will be determined between me and RB. Mossat, if you check the main thread you will see in the OP and my last post that such distribution by ability is being done however I would also like to throw in the ranking system to be more in depth

[Novograd IV]

newbie idjit gets higher rank than vet. for whatever reason (inactivity, ect.)

newbie messes up operation, by changing plans in the middle of a firefight and ruining the team's plan.

people rage.