National Conference, Forgotten Americans. (technically open)

[Cabickstan]

Ok then I will get out of your hair.

[Rhodmhire]

Ah but Rhodmhe together we are a strong fighting force it is possible for us to defeat you and like Kagetora had mentioned I dont rember anything about grain we can use the viris at our advantage we can excute criminals with this instead of the chair.

A nation mentioned it, I assumed he was in some contact with developing news on the virus, I took his word as plausible.

No you won't defeat me, I have Kagetora on my side, as well as many other influencial and powerful nations if I get the word out to them, but we're not talking war yet.

For now, let's try and end this with as little violence as possible, shall we?

Also, execution of criminals through painful viruses seems worse than a brief chair execution. However, Rhodmhire doesn't accept the death penalty as logical punishment in any circumstance.

We think the Justice system is too flawed.

[Rhodmhire]

So you are restricting a nation from power? Whoa. You are acting like God! You can't say how much power they should/shouldn't have.

OOC: It's rule of thumb that a nation under 100m. population doesn't get advanced bio-chemical/nuclear weapons. I'm above 100m., near 200m. and I don't even have developed nuclear weapons. Honestly, I shouldn't take your war threats seriously with a population so low actually supporting this, it's called child's play to older nations.

Basically I'm not saying how much power you can have, I'm saying people don't take people like you seriously for taking more power than you should. I'm amazed that I take this whole thing seriously.

[Cabickstan]

Actually the rule is only nuclear weapons no one ever said anything about chemical weapons.

[Bengera]

So you are restricting a nation from power? Whoa. You are acting like God! You can't say how much power they should/shouldn't have.

OOC: It's rule of thumb that a nation under 100m. population doesn't get advanced bio-chemical/nuclear weapons. I'm above 100m., near 200m. and I don't even have developed nuclear weapons. Honestly, I shouldn't take your war threats seriously with a population so low actually supporting this, it's called child's play to older nations.

Basically I'm not saying how much power you can have, I'm saying people don't take people like you seriously for taking more power than you should. I'm amazed that I take this whole thing seriously.

You don't get it, do you. I'M not threatening war. They are. I don't want war. They do. I'M not the one who's saying that we have a bigger fighting force, blah, blah, blah, am I?

This is actually a foolish reason for war. A virus? I mean, it's probably spreading around Forgotten Americans by now. You're just going to invade and get exposed?

[Rhodmhire]

Oh please. Now I'm getting annoyed. I say that:

Forgotten Americans disarms that virus immediately.

We all sign peace/ceasefire.

We skip off and live happily ever after.

I will speak to Forgotten Americans as soon as possible.

Here's a treaty I've come up with:

Forgotten Americans & Rhodmhire Treaty

I, President Gerald L. Traddixx propose that Forgotten Americans--and the Allied States, and Rhodmhire--and fellow allies, both compromise.

Recently, Forgotten Americans has created a virus, the HR Virus, capeable of harming and/or killing humans. It was tested on ten inmates on Death Row, and successfully killed them all. Its symptoms are harmful and potentially deadly to humans and many animals.

Intelligence suggests Forgotten Americans threatened The German Region, that the virus could potentially affect Rhodmhire citizens, other nations could be harmed, and that Comaack citizens have plausibly been infected by the HR Virus.

Therefore, Rhodmhire's Government suggests these actions:

RHODMHIRE AND ALLIED NATIONS: Will not declare any war on Forgotten Americans or the Allied States. We will consider all members of the Allied States Allies so long as they hold true to the responsibilites they are listed to keep in this Treaty. Rhodmhire will also not create any virus, or suggest it to any other nation. We will also do our best to defend Forgotten Americans and the Allied States in war, if war against either isn't for any rational reasoning. If it is, we will not engage in it, unless Rhodmhire is personally threatened.

FORGOTTEN AMERICANS AND THE ALLIED STATE: Will shut down the HR Virus Project immediately. Balistic missiles may be kept, but not used against Rhodmhire unless other reasons arise. The virus will be terminated in any way possible. All damages caused will be paid for, and Forgotten Americans will not create another virus, until it is above a population of 200,000,000 and can prove it will only be used under drastic circumstances. Also, Forgotten Americans will not use this virus against The German Region.

This Treaty may not be made null by either nation.

Signed,

President Gerald L. Traddixx, A Majority of Parliament Senate Members (163 For)

OOC: Also, it wouldn't be a ceasefire, since:

"A ceasefire (or truce) is a temporary stoppage of an armed conflict in which each side agrees with the other to suspend aggressive actions. Ceasefires may be declared as part of a formal treaty, but they have also been called as part of an informal understanding between opposing forces."

It would simply prevent a war from being declared, if both nations sign the Treaty.

[Rhodmhire]

You don't get it, do you. I'M not threatening war. They are. I don't want war. They do. I'M not the one who's saying that we have a bigger fighting force, blah, blah, blah, am I?

This is actually a foolish reason for war. A virus? I mean, it's probably spreading around Forgotten Americans by now. You're just going to invade and get exposed?

Bio-chemical containment suits would obviously be worn by our infantries, whether produced by Rhodmhire workforce members, or given to us by allied nations.

Also, scratch the "yous" replace them with "Forgotten Americans."

[Serbian_Soviet_Union]

OOC: Every nation is able to develop biowarfare weaponary as we are also on the verge of creating a deadly flu virus ourselves, so as long as the nation is not using it to threaten other nation's and does not use them to declare war and go on a killing spree by launching ballistic missiles filled with the HR virus, then there is no reason to involve ourselves into this, this is violating a sovereign nation's internal affairs at it's strongest form, every nation has the right's to develop biowarfare or nuclear weapon's or chemical weapon's if the nation has the resources, the right materials and the money then so be it.

Wars have been started because of other nation's moral objections, one nation cannot enforce their morality or their views upon others, if one nation is against biological weapon's, so be it, but to go around and condemn other nation's developing biological weapon's is not ok, the nation may not approve, so be it, but to threaten to declare war if the nation does not cease it's development is ridiciolous and for that the nation would receive it's strongest condemnation by the Federation of the Serbian Soviet Union.

[Rhodmhire]

OOC: Every nation is able to develop biowarfare weaponary as we are also on the verge of creating a deadly flu virus ourselves, so as long as the nation is not using it to threaten other nation's and does not use them to declare war and go on a killing spree by launching ballistic missiles filled with the HR virus, then there is no reason to involve ourselves into this, this is violating a sovereign nation's internal affairs at it's strongest form, every nation has the right's to develop biowarfare or nuclear weapon's or chemical weapon's if the nation has the resources, the right materials and the money then so be it.

They did, they threatened The German Region:

Presidnet Jones also said he would'nt mind letting out the virus on GR Terrirtory.

That's a direct quote from Forgotten American's President, it's the main reason Rhodmhire got involved, as well as our own complications with viruses. We didn't want other nations, including our own, to be threatened by this.

We didn't just do it because we're a bigger nation and we can.

[Qingzi]

So you are restricting a nation from power? Whoa. You are acting like God! You can't say how much power they should/shouldn't have.

OOC: It's rule of thumb that a nation under 100m. population doesn't get advanced bio-chemical/nuclear weapons. I'm above 100m., near 200m. and I don't even have developed nuclear weapons. Honestly, I shouldn't take your war threats seriously with a population so low actually supporting this, it's called child's play to older nations.

Basically I'm not saying how much power you can have, I'm saying people don't take people like you seriously for taking more power than you should. I'm amazed that I take this whole thing seriously.

That is a BS rule. Most nations with nukes/bio/chem weapons are below 100m.

Examples:
France
UK
South Africa
Israel
North Korea
Iraq
Iran
I could go on...

[Kagetora]

it's called child's play to older nations.

OOC: This made me laugh inside. Oftentimes, even I can't be classified as an "older nation," and I'm nearly a 4 billion pop nation.

That is a BS rule. Most nations with nukes/bio/chem weapons are below 100m.

OOC: It's not a rule per se, it's tradition. Basically, most good RPers will ignore you if you don't adhere to it. As to your RL examples, it doesn't fit very well to a game where we have nations whose population is larger than that of the entire real world, and even the 2007 nations have populations 4x that of China.

[Qingzi]

it's called child's play to older nations.

OOC: This made me laugh inside. Oftentimes, even I can't be classified as an "older nation," and I'm nearly a 4 billion pop nation.

That is a BS rule. Most nations with nukes/bio/chem weapons are below 100m.

OOC: It's not a rule per se, it's tradition. Basically, most good RPers will ignore you if you don't adhere to it. As to your RL examples, it doesn't fit very well to a game where we have nations whose population is larger than that of the entire real world, and even the 2007 nations have populations 4x that of China.

OOC: It doesn't matter. When the hell did population factor into scientific ability?

[Kagetora]

OOC: The population rule has absolutely nothing to do with scientific knowledge, it has to do with economic power. The US spends huge amounts maintaining their nuclear arsenal.

[Qingzi]

OOC: The population rule has absolutely nothing to do with scientific knowledge, it has to do with economic power. The US spends huge amounts maintaining their nuclear arsenal.

OOC: Who is to say that they can't have one or two nukes? Israel with a GDP of 200 billion is suspected of having a nuclear arsenal of around 60-400 nukes.

South Africa under apartheid maintained a nuclear arsenal of 3-5 warheads.

Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal in the world and their GDP stands at around 1 trillion.

[Serbian_Soviet_Union]

OOC: Every nation is able to develop biowarfare weaponary as we are also on the verge of creating a deadly flu virus ourselves, so as long as the nation is not using it to threaten other nation's and does not use them to declare war and go on a killing spree by launching ballistic missiles filled with the HR virus, then there is no reason to involve ourselves into this, this is violating a sovereign nation's internal affairs at it's strongest form, every nation has the right's to develop biowarfare or nuclear weapon's or chemical weapon's if the nation has the resources, the right materials and the money then so be it.

They did, they threatened The German Region:

Presidnet Jones also said he would'nt mind letting out the virus on GR Terrirtory.

That's a direct quote from Forgotten American's President, it's the main reason Rhodmhire got involved, as well as our own complications with viruses. We didn't want other nations, including our own, to be threatened by this.

We didn't just do it because we're a bigger nation and we can.

When or where did they threaten the German Region??

[Cerberii]

Prime Minister Adam Donahue, though worried and constantly updated on events in the Reavani-Wookie War does make a transmission via satellite to the meeting.

The Prime Minister is obviously stressed, has missed hours of sleep and seems tense.

Though I joing you from a time when all my attention would be devoted to the concerns of a prevention of attempted genocide and extermination, I am bound to express the wills of the people of Cerberii on this matter. Diplomacy must be opened with Forgotten Americans, but should diplomacy fail. War must be kept as an option. Now I apologise for the briefness of this transmission and my lack of personal attendance but I am needed here and needed a great deal.

The transmission ends.

[Rhodmhire]

When or where did they threaten the German Region??

The third post on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7192&hilit=+ER+virus.

[Rhodmhire]

Prime Minister Adam Donahue, though worried and constantly updated on events in the Reavani-Wookie War does make a transmission via satellite to the meeting.

The Prime Minister is obviously stressed, has missed hours of sleep and seems tense.

Though I joing you from a time when all my attention would be devoted to the concerns of a prevention of attempted genocide and extermination, I am bound to express the wills of the people of Cerberii on this matter. Diplomacy must be opened with Forgotten Americans, but should diplomacy fail. War must be kept as an option. Now I apologise for the briefness of this transmission and my lack of personal attendance but I am needed here and needed a great deal.

The transmission ends.

If you happen to recieve this transmission, I'd like to personally thank you for your contribution to this dilemma under such stress.

Worry not, it is mostly resolved, war will not take place unless decided by Forgotten Americans, otherwise, it's practically over.

Thank you, and if you need any help with Wookie War, I've been far more concerned with Rhodmhire's economic undermine, the recent Legislations, virus, and this event--but I'd be happy to give you any aid you require to end this problem, as Intelligence tells me it is pretty big in concern.

-Gerald L. Traddixx

*end transmission*

[Rhodmhire]

Spies have stolen a sample of the Virus and our researchers have confirmed this is the HR Virus.

I've enacted upon a diplomatic solution, as majority Senate votes rule.

Give me an estimated cost for vaccines and any other supplies/repairs your nation would need to recover.

Forgotten Americans will pay for everything. Unless they wish to go to war with you and I.

[Rhodmhire]

OOC: The population rule has absolutely nothing to do with scientific knowledge, it has to do with economic power. The US spends huge amounts maintaining their nuclear arsenal.

OOC: Who is to say that they can't have one or two nukes? Israel with a GDP of 200 billion is suspected of having a nuclear arsenal of around 60-400 nukes.

South Africa under apartheid maintained a nuclear arsenal of 3-5 warheads.

Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal in the world and their GDP stands at around 1 trillion.

OOC: I myself tried to do a nuclear roleplay thing when I was at about a population of 20-30 million, I was stopped dead in my tracks and ignored.

It's not so much that they can't, when I said "the rule of thumb" I meant in the way that if you do it, most experienced RPers will ignore you. You can drop 1,000,000,000,000,000 Super Indestructible Nukes on them, they'll just ignore it.

Nobody's saying you can't, it's just common to have a bulked up population, so that 1bil+ populations and populations of 10mil aren't evenly matched military/weapons-wise.

I'm not saying a few nukes are bad, it's just widely considered as not a good idea until you have a good population (in NS anyways) to do so.

So I've heard, I may be totally wrong, I myself am a fairly new NSger.

[Allied Governments]

The Federation is willing to help provide the muscle if war is to be decided, we shall strike without mercy or fear.

[Serbian_Soviet_Union]

When or where did they threaten the German Region??

The third post on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7192&hilit=+ER+virus.

The threat came out of provocation as the German Region has overstepped it's boundaries by demanding a nation to cease it's development due to involving personal morality as the main agenda for demanding that the nation cease immediately which provoked the threat in the first place, condemning is one thing but demanding is a another level. The Forgoten Americans have over reacted to the demands of the German Region however it was out of provocation, however it cannot be classified as a threat or else a war would have been declared along time ago after the German Region have decided to interfere with another soveriegn nation's internal affairs. Wars are created not because of a nation developing WMD, but because of interference with another nation's sovereignty and it's internal affairs.

[Nikovalusca]

IC: The Nikovan interest in the situation is not concerned with the Forgotten Americans' right or lack thereof to develop biological weapons. It is our belief that every state has the right to pursue its own means to defend itself, and as such we do not question the Forgotten Americans' right to develop this virus and weaponize it.

Our concern is entirely with the conduct of the Forgotten Americans and their allies throughout this situation. The very first response of the president of the Forgotten Americans to criticism from the German Region was a thinly veiled threat to unleash the virus upon the German population. That is not self-defense: that is belligerence of the highest degree. Similarly, the strutting and posturing of the Forgotten Americans' principle advocate Cabickstan demonstrates an alarming capacity for aggression without reason.

In addition, the reckless and uncontrolled means of testing employed by the Forgotten Americans pose not only a threat to themselves, but to any nations unfortunate enough to be hit should a pandemic result. It is likely that the FA have already doomed themselves by releasing the virus into the environment.

War is not the primary answer. Our purpose at these proceedings is to ensure that diplomacy is given precedence, and that war is taken as the final and absolute last resort. We endorse the solution proposed by Rhodmhire, and urge the Forgotten Americans to accept. We also recommend that Cabickstan stand down and cease doing FA's talking for them.

[Rhodmhire]

The threat came out of provocation as the German Region has overstepped it's boundaries by demanding a nation to cease it's development due to involving personal morality as the main agenda for demanding that the nation cease immediately which provoked the threat in the first place, condemning is one thing but demanding is a another level. The Forgoten Americans have over reacted to the demands of the German Region however it was out of provocation, however it cannot be classified as a threat or else a war would have been declared along time ago after the German Region have decided to interfere with another soveriegn nation's internal affairs. Wars are created not because of a nation developing WMD, but because of interference with another nation's sovereignty and it's internal affairs.

Forgotten Americans seemed to threaten the nation at the time I started this, therefore I considered it a threat.

Even nown, when it isn't threatening, there is evidence that the nation of Comaack has lost thousands of lifes due to the HR Virus. It was confirmed by the Comaack government.

Although this isn't going to provoke war, Forgotten Americans must pay the Comaack Government $4.3bil USD to cover for losses, destruction, and so forth.

There's no way around that, and if Forgotten Americans doesn't comply, war will be declared by Rhodmhire and Comaack against Forgotten Americans and the Allied States.

It is written in the Treaty I proposed:

"FORGOTTEN AMERICANS AND THE ALLIED STATE: Will shut down the HR Virus Project immediately. Balistic missiles may be kept, but not used against Rhodmhire unless other reasons arise. The virus will be terminated in any way possible. All damages caused will be paid for, and Forgotten Americans will not create another virus, until it is above a population of 200,000,000 and can prove it will only be used under drastic circumstances. Also, Forgotten Americans will not use this virus against The German Region, unless The German Reason gives strong reasons to utilize it against them."

If they don't comply, the Treaty is null, and war will almost indefinately be declared.

[Rhodmhire]

IC: The Nikovan interest in the situation is not concerned with the Forgotten Americans' right or lack thereof to develop biological weapons. It is our belief that every state has the right to pursue its own means to defend itself, and as such we do not question the Forgotten Americans' right to develop this virus and weaponize it.

Our concern is entirely with the conduct of the Forgotten Americans and their allies throughout this situation. The very first response of the president of the Forgotten Americans to criticism from the German Region was a thinly veiled threat to unleash the virus upon the German population. That is not self-defense: that is belligerence of the highest degree. Similarly, the strutting and posturing of the Forgotten Americans' principle advocate Cabickstan demonstrates an alarming capacity for aggression without reason.

In addition, the reckless and uncontrolled means of testing employed by the Forgotten Americans pose not only a threat to themselves, but to any nations unfortunate enough to be hit should a pandemic result. It is likely that the FA have already doomed themselves by releasing the virus into the environment.

War is not the primary answer. Our purpose at these proceedings is to ensure that diplomacy is given precedence, and that war is taken as the final and absolute last resort. We endorse the solution proposed by Rhodmhire, and urge the Forgotten Americans to accept. We also recommend that Cabickstan stand down and cease doing FA's talking for them.

Thank you for sharing your opinions, I hope to talk to FA's leader(s) personally tomorrow on the matter.