Nations Decide! Same-Sex Marriage (N.E. Rhodmhire)

[Campeachy]

You are welcome to believe what you wish, naturally, but so long as the majority feels as they do, the law will not change.

The majority to not have a right to persecute minorities.

The majority do not approve of same-sex marriage, and that is all there is to it. No amount of complaints from foreign nations will change that. They are not denied anything else, not the right to share a home, a bed, hold hands in public, etc.... Only marriage is denied to them, because that is the will of the people, as shown in the word of the law.

~ Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs Bethany A. Vazquez

[Seculartopia]

Both Homo and Hetero should be considered equally as marriage, and should be given the same rights given to all people.

[Campeachy]

Both Homo and Hetero should be considered equally as marriage, and should be given the same rights given to all people.

There are some nations in which most people would agree with you. Campeachy is not such a nation. I believe my nation's standing on this issue has been more than adequately explained, thus I will leave the rest of you to express yourselves while I move along with my agenda.

~ Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs Bethany A. Vazquez

[Leavatia]

You are welcome to believe what you wish, naturally, but so long as the majority feels as they do, the law will not change.

The majority to not have a right to persecute minorities.

Okay, right their you are very wrong on something. Homosexuals are not minorities, the only way for someone to be a minority is to be like a Japanese person in a country like South Africa. I am a minority, not because I'm gay, but because I am native american.

[New Central Europe]

MOST?

Let me tell you, some of these non-fans are just too damn good at hiding.

Why the heck do you even care about likes Freddie Mercury

[Fatatatutti]

Homosexuals are not minorities, the only way for someone to be a minority is to be like a Japanese person in a country like South Africa.

In this context, we're talking about a majority opinion versus a minority opinion. The majority is not entitled to force its opinion on the minority just because it has the power to do so. The minority involved is not just the homosexuals who are deprived of equal marriage rights. The minority includes everybody who favours equal marriage rights.

[Rhodmhire]

Why the heck do you even care about likes Freddie Mercury

...

I have my reasons.

[Campeachy]

Homosexuals are not minorities, the only way for someone to be a minority is to be like a Japanese person in a country like South Africa.

In this context, we're talking about a majority opinion versus a minority opinion. The majority is not entitled to force its opinion on the minority just because it has the power to do so. The minority involved is not just the homosexuals who are deprived of equal marriage rights. The minority includes everybody who favours equal marriage rights.

We thought that was what you meant, but we appreciate the clarification even so. We can't agree with you on the question of the majority being able to enforce its wishes, but we appreciate the clarification.

~ Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs Bethany A. Vazquez

OOC:

BTW, Fatatatutti, I've been perusing the state visit thread between you and Noordeinde because I'm bored. Good RP.

[The Northern Baltic]

The government has no place in defining marriage for individuals. Therefore, the government shouldn't even be considering banning gay marriage to begin with.

[Edvardus]

To: President Gerald L. Traddixx
From: The Office of the Emperor of Edvardus

First and foremost, violence must be condemned regardless of who is committing it or for what purposes the offenders may wish to achieve.

I must also voice my firm condemnation towards any measures to legalise marriage for same-sex couples. Marriage is a union of one man and one woman in God. The legalisation of same-sex marriage would be the greatest blow to the sanctity of marriage since the legalisation of divorce. A moral government would not tolerate such a blatant attack on marriage.

[Omega Uliza]

It is not the habit of the Kingdom of Campeachy to interfere in the domestic affairs of neighbors unless asked, and since you did ask, we will tell you that we are opposed to LGBT marriages on basic moral principles.

~ Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs Bethany A. Vazquez

Might the Prime Minister of the Commonwealth of Omega Uliza ask what these basic moral principles are that would deny man his fellow man, so to speak?

His Excellency might ask anything he likes. Campeachy was founded by pirates, and so it may seem ironic to some that we are so devutly religious, but be that as it may, we are a religious people, and as such we feel homosexuality is an offense to God. The overwhelming majority of our people agree that marriage is an institution which should be restricted by law to a pairing of one man and one woman. You will find no exceptions to the law on this issue anywhere in Campeachy. LGBT couples are protected from persecution, however, as is anybody else in this nation.

~ Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs Bethany A. Vazquez

It is in his Prime Minister's experience that the matters of a religion are a difficult one to discuss when you've none yourself for your individual state, nor the state in which you lead en masse. A long time ago, as you might find in any Omega Ulizian history book, a king by the name of Tomleey the IV did an amazing thing. He refused a wife. He refused even a mistress. He did so for the sake of his own love in another man. He did so even though he'd leave no heir to the kingdom, and it thus fell to his cousin, Yenus the I to take the reigns of the monarchy. Later on, this more dominant breeding of monarchs declared themselves emperor over a territory far more vast than Tomleey the IV could ever have imagined, though it was only 400 years off from his death.

Omega Uliza is, in the very least his Prime Minister's opinion, a splendid nation born from the Midas spirit. One that is forged in the flames of expansion in the unknown, a thirst to be dominant, and a fierce soul that is determined to shatter all within it's path. The very core parts of the nation are formed from the land the Midas tribes roamed.

But I digress, though the Prime Minister intends no offense, he wonders over the right of the majority. If the majority were ignorant or foolish in any way, what right have they to impose laws based upon an incomplete view so devoid of depth and perception? The Ishikans, ones who ruled an empire which enslaved the Omega Ulizians a long time before they even called themselves as such, viewed them no more as barbarians, good for nothing but farming and taxing. Why? Because they held different thoughts, different beliefs, different ways.

His Prime Minister, Mr. Vrangler and no other, must wonder if Campeachy is xenophobic.

[Rolling Dead]

All protesters should be shot with our new "Slightly Less than Lethal According to These Papers" .50 Sniper Rifles. Protesting the Government is protesting against the Gods.

[Campeachy]

It is in his Prime Minister's experience that the matters of a religion are a difficult one to discuss when you've none yourself for your individual state, nor the state in which you lead en masse. A long time ago, as you might find in any Omega Ulizian history book, a king by the name of Tomleey the IV did an amazing thing. He refused a wife. He refused even a mistress. He did so for the sake of his own love in another man. He did so even though he'd leave no heir to the kingdom, and it thus fell to his cousin, Yenus the I to take the reigns of the monarchy. Later on, this more dominant breeding of monarchs declared themselves emperor over a territory far more vast than Tomleey the IV could ever have imagined, though it was only 400 years off from his death.

Omega Uliza is, in the very least his Prime Minister's opinion, a splendid nation born from the Midas spirit. One that is forged in the flames of expansion in the unknown, a thirst to be dominant, and a fierce soul that is determined to shatter all within it's path. The very core parts of the nation are formed from the land the Midas tribes roamed.

But I digress, though the Prime Minister intends no offense, he wonders over the right of the majority. If the majority were ignorant or foolish in any way, what right have they to impose laws based upon an incomplete view so devoid of depth and perception? The Ishikans, ones who ruled an empire which enslaved the Omega Ulizians a long time before they even called themselves as such, viewed them no more as barbarians, good for nothing but farming and taxing. Why? Because they held different thoughts, different beliefs, different ways.

His Prime Minister, Mr. Vrangler and no other, must wonder if Campeachy is xenophobic.

You have an interesting history, and as to the empire you rule, you ought to be proud of yourselves.

Regarding the rights of the majority. You mentioned the possibility of them being, and I quote, "ignorant or foolish in any way." In that case, there may be problems, but you see it is not a problem here because the vast majority of the people of Campeachy are quite intellectually sound. They just do not like the idea of homosexual marriages. It does not mean my people are xenophobic. They merely know what they like, and what bothers them.

~ Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs Bethany A. Vazquez

[Fatatatutti]

They merely know what they like, and what bothers them.

I like chocolate ice cream better than vanilla and mixing chocolate with peanut butter bothers me - but I don't force my likes and dislikes on other people by law.

-- Shoshone Chang

[Campeachy]

They merely know what they like, and what bothers them.

I like chocolate ice cream better than vanilla and mixing chocolate with peanut butter bothers me - but I don't force my likes and dislikes on other people by law.

-- Shoshone Chang

Good for you. I seem to recall reading about you somewhere. One of the Prime Minister's family? In any case, the issue of homosexuality is best described as outright repulsive to most people in Campeachy. Legalizing it against the people's wishes would bring chaos, which the Crown simply can not allow. I believe there are only three Members of Parliament now in favor of it, one of whom is homosexual openly. That's out of a few hundred people. The last MP to propose a bill legalizing it nationwide was ousted next election.

~ Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs Bethany A. Vazquez

[Fatatatutti]

In any case, the issue of homosexuality is best described as outright repulsive to most people in Campeachy.

And mixing chocolate with peanut butter is outright repulsive to me. That doesn't give me the right to impose my opinion on others.

Legalizing it against the people's wishes would bring chaos, which the Crown simply can not allow.

You're probably over-dramatizing. If your people have even a modicum of sense, and you claim that they do, they'll understand that universal marriage rights will have no effect on them whatsover. It will benefit the persecuted without costing the persecutors anything.

-- Shoshone Chang

[Campeachy]

In any case, the issue of homosexuality is best described as outright repulsive to most people in Campeachy.

And mixing chocolate with peanut butter is outright repulsive to me. That doesn't give me the right to impose my opinion on others.

Legalizing it against the people's wishes would bring chaos, which the Crown simply can not allow.

You're probably over-dramatizing. If your people have even a modicum of sense, and you claim that they do, they'll understand that universal marriage rights will have no effect on them whatsover. It will benefit the persecuted without costing the persecutors anything.

-- Shoshone Chang

Feel free to say that, of course. The fact remains that the majority-the vast majority-of the people like the status quo. PM Daniels wants legalization, but Shizuka knows hers is not the majority opinion. Her arguments are often much like yours, but thus far, she has made very little real progress.

I will also reiterate that we do not view the denial of marriage rights-and again, that is all we deny them-as persecution.

~ Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs Bethany A. Vazquez

[Sanctus-Terra]

From the desk of Supreme Farley,

Fear is getting hold of you, isn't it? Rebellions and riots are causing you to think their way, making you want to legalize what they want. If a simple riot could get everyone anything they wanted, we would all be in a state of anarchy. Sanctus-Terra, and Supreme Farley, wish to aid you put down these riots so gay marriage stays the way the Lord intended, ILLEGAL and anyone who supports it to be BURNED in righteous fire! Do not anger the Lord, our God. Make gay marriage illegal.

[Fatatatutti]

I will also reiterate that we do not view the denial of marriage rights-and again, that is all we deny them-as persecution.

The persecutors are always the last to recognize persecution as persecution. You're saying exactly the same thing as all of the persecutors of the past used to say, "All we're denying the slaves is their personal freedom. All we're denying women is the vote." Equality doesn't allow for any exceptions.

-- Shoshone Chang

[Campeachy]

I will also reiterate that we do not view the denial of marriage rights-and again, that is all we deny them-as persecution.

The persecutors are always the last to recognize persecution as persecution. You're saying exactly the same thing as all of the persecutors of the past used to say, "All we're denying the slaves is their personal freedom. All we're denying women is the vote." Equality doesn't allow for any exceptions.

-- Shoshone Chang

If we gave every screaming minority-for lack of a more suited term-every single thing they wanted, there would be total chaos. I have said it before, and I will say it again, we are not denying them anything else. If they want to live together, we do not take issue. If they want to show a little affection in public, we do not take issue. If they want to openly say how much in love they are and that they are partners...well, you get the idea? We only take issue when they attempt to get married. Marriage is strictly defined in the Constitution, laid down by the Second Convention of 1901, and its opponents simply do not have the support required to amend it.

Oh, on a side note, in case you are interested, women have the franchise in Campeachy, and slavery is strictly forbidden.

~ Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs Bethany A. Vazquez

[Fatatatutti]

If we gave every screaming minority-for lack of a more suited term-every single thing they wanted, there would be total chaos.

No, there would be equality.

And I repeat that you're prbably over-dramatizing the reaction.

I have said it before, and I will say it again, we are not denying them anything else.

I already addressed that point. Denying them anything is the issue.

Marriage is strictly defined in the Constitution, laid down by the Second Convention of 1901, and its opponents simply do not have the support required to amend it.

Well, now you're introducing new facts. If you had made up mentioned that Constitution earlier, your position would have been clearer.

But we're not talking about your situation directly anyway. We're talking about Rhodmhire and about anybody else who does have a choice in the matter.

This should also be a lesson to all nations not to entrench discrimination in your Constitutions.

Oh, on a side note, in case you are interested, women have the franchise in Campeachy, and slavery is strictly forbidden.

Congratulations on moving into the nineteenth century.

-- Shoshone Chang

[Campeachy]

If we gave every screaming minority-for lack of a more suited term-every single thing they wanted, there would be total chaos.

No, there would be equality.

And I repeat that you're prbably over-dramatizing the reaction.

I have said it before, and I will say it again, we are not denying them anything else.

I already addressed that point. Denying them anything is the issue.

Marriage is strictly defined in the Constitution, laid down by the Second Convention of 1901, and its opponents simply do not have the support required to amend it.

Well, now you're introducing new facts. If you had made up mentioned that Constitution earlier, your position would have been clearer.

But we're not talking about your situation directly anyway. We're talking about Rhodmhire and about anybody else who does have a choice in the matter.

This should also be a lesson to all nations not to entrench discrimination in your Constitutions.

Oh, on a side note, in case you are interested, women have the franchise in Campeachy, and slavery is strictly forbidden.

Congratulations on moving into the nineteenth century.

-- Shoshone Chang

Boy, you are clearly no diplomat. Slavery has been outlawed here since 1830, when it was made illegal in the First Convention, which was ordered by King Valery I. Women did not have the right to vote until the Constitution was altered in 1890, and that change was upheld in the Second Convention of 1901.

Regarding entrenched discrimination, you are free to feel that way about it, but, as I have said before, no complaints from you will change the laws here. If the day comes when the majority desire same-sex marriages to be legal, I'm sure it will happen swiftly enough, but until that day, the law stands.

I seem to be speaking to you fairly often. Perhaps an embassy would be more appropriate.

[Fatatatutti]

Regarding entrenched discrimination, you are free to feel that way about it, but, as I have said before, no complaints from you will change the laws here.

Again, we're not talking about you. Hopefully, somebody else will be more reasonable than your supposedly reasonable people.

I seem to be speaking to you fairly often. Perhaps an embassy would be more appropriate.

Fatatatutti doesn't have many embassies because we don't allow weapons of any kind in our nation and we don't like to send ambassadors to nations where they need weapons. If you're still interested in embassies, feel free to contact our government.

[Omega Uliza]

It is in his Prime Minister's experience that the matters of a religion are a difficult one to discuss when you've none yourself for your individual state, nor the state in which you lead en masse. A long time ago, as you might find in any Omega Ulizian history book, a king by the name of Tomleey the IV did an amazing thing. He refused a wife. He refused even a mistress. He did so for the sake of his own love in another man. He did so even though he'd leave no heir to the kingdom, and it thus fell to his cousin, Yenus the I to take the reigns of the monarchy. Later on, this more dominant breeding of monarchs declared themselves emperor over a territory far more vast than Tomleey the IV could ever have imagined, though it was only 400 years off from his death.

Omega Uliza is, in the very least his Prime Minister's opinion, a splendid nation born from the Midas spirit. One that is forged in the flames of expansion in the unknown, a thirst to be dominant, and a fierce soul that is determined to shatter all within it's path. The very core parts of the nation are formed from the land the Midas tribes roamed.

But I digress, though the Prime Minister intends no offense, he wonders over the right of the majority. If the majority were ignorant or foolish in any way, what right have they to impose laws based upon an incomplete view so devoid of depth and perception? The Ishikans, ones who ruled an empire which enslaved the Omega Ulizians a long time before they even called themselves as such, viewed them no more as barbarians, good for nothing but farming and taxing. Why? Because they held different thoughts, different beliefs, different ways.

His Prime Minister, Mr. Vrangler and no other, must wonder if Campeachy is xenophobic.

You have an interesting history, and as to the empire you rule, you ought to be proud of yourselves.

Regarding the rights of the majority. You mentioned the possibility of them being, and I quote, "ignorant or foolish in any way." In that case, there may be problems, but you see it is not a problem here because the vast majority of the people of Campeachy are quite intellectually sound. They just do not like the idea of homosexual marriages. It does not mean my people are xenophobic. They merely know what they like, and what bothers them.

~ Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs Bethany A. Vazquez

Fair enough.