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A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]

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Janpia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Janpia » Mon Mar 11, 2024 2:42 am

European Federal Union wrote:
Janpia wrote:
A dual storage with a single autoloader in the middle. Hmmmm.... if fire starts, its not like the autoloader itself would burn Hmmmmmmmmmm



F
If I'm sure I already mentioned that it would depend on how close the fire I to the loader


Eh fair

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Greater Marine
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Postby Greater Marine » Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:30 am

-deleted-
Last edited by Greater Marine on Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater Marine
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Postby Greater Marine » Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:59 am

Janpia wrote:
European Federal Union wrote:
Ye it would depend on how deep it's penetrated and how close the fire gets to the other loader


Nah, its not exactly separated. It works like a normal bustle. Pretty sure I made an entire paragraph of how it works on me Arbiter tank

Greater Marine wrote:By the way, with my tank design, how good actually is it next to the JP-2? See, I wanted a modern tank for my country to have a tank as modern as those oof the EFU and Janpia - but I am not entirely sure if I have succeeded.


I'd doubt you could apply composite covers on tracks since they are quite heavy per se. Thats why most modern armor are only focused on the front turret cheeks (since statistically, most hostile projectiles lands there). As for the composites itself, while true that Aluminum is slightly stronger than steel especially in cold areas, it is susceptible that they would leak a certain air substance after being fired at by HEAT, which I forgor, that could be dangerous to the crew inside. But regardless, the armor seems quite good, could see it almost comparable to Merkava armor.

As for the sensors, cant really tell much given the details is quite lacking such as the type of lasers used, the nm for the sights etc. But I'll just assume its a third generation FLIR like every modern tanks. But overall it looks good for me at the very least.

And ig everyone is now copying me Witch II system as well as me fire control systems on me Arbiter

But ye ig in total, its like Merkava Mk. 4 but mated with the Arbiter.

So what could I put on the sides of the track for protection? The Alumninium and Titanium mentioned could also be used in areas other than the armour - such as mechanical or structural components instead, so I will likely keep that feature (as I haven't specified where its used).

The laser RF is a Raman laser.
The gunner's sights have a 16x Optical zoom (as well as 72x digital), whereas the commander's sight is a 360 degree panoramic design with up to 48x digital zoom.
Both sights feature 2-axis stabilisation of both the optical elements and the sensor.

The tank sights feature 2 sensors, whose output is combined digitally: a dual-band infrared sensor which has a 3-5um mid-wave band and an 8-12um far infrared band, and a colour daytime sensor with some near IR capability, with a 48MP resolution. The IR sensors are cooled to increase performance. The data is digitally combined, allowing greater precision, and then matched via AI to the tank's database of 2 terabytes of data on known friendly and hostile equipment. This then is used to identify and detect targets, and create firing solutions for the selected target.

The distributed IR sensors are relatively speaking much cheaper and lower resolution, but offer panoramic coverage, and automatic warning of incoming missiles and drones. This is fed into the tank's computer system along with the APS's radars and the data from laser/radar warning receivers. The computer calculates the probability of the threat, and reacts to it automatically by 1) engaging hard kill APS 2) engaging the RCWS 3) using smoke grenades and flares, and turning off the engine or 4) using laser dazzlers to blind ATGM seekers and drone cameras. In addition, it will pre-emptively prepare fire suppression and other damage control systems for use.

The suspension also, bizarrely, has some advanced sensors - such as a camera that scans the ground immediately ahead and adjusts the firmness of the hydropneumatics suspension to increase stability on rough ground. It also serves as a proximity warning sensor like those found on cars (although if you hit a wall when parking a tank, the wall will probably sustain more damage). This feature is actually patented by GCM-Mondial group, the automaker who helped design and build the tank, and appeared on the Mondial XLS limousine well before it did on the aggressor III, though in a less high-end version.
Last edited by Greater Marine on Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:05 am, edited 4 times in total.
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European Federal Union
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Postby European Federal Union » Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:02 am

Greater Marine wrote:snip.


Did you use the Abrams X as basis for the tank?
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Greater Marine
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Postby Greater Marine » Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:04 am

European Federal Union wrote:
Greater Marine wrote:snip.


Did you use the Abrams X as basis for the tank?

No, more type-10/k2
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Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries
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Postby Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries » Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:16 am

I am making a western tank with russian/combloc characteristics... (152/125mm gun). I also plan on displaying it here as a proof-of concept.

Idk if i should use the Leopard/Challenger setup as a baseline, or should I go for the CATTB/K2 setup...

or a mix of both?

OOC: my current proof of concept below -
Image
Last edited by Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries on Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
NS stats have been rounded up and swiss-cheese'd by local militia in an alleyway.

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Greater Marine
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Postby Greater Marine » Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:23 am

Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries wrote:I am making a western tank with russian/combloc characteristics... (152/125mm gun). I also plan on displaying it here as a proof-of concept.

Idk if i should use the Leopard/Challenger setup as a baseline, or should I go for the CATTB/K2 setup...

or a mix of both?

OOC: my current proof of concept below -
(Image)

A mix might be good, although I'm a big fan of the Leopard II, especially with the entire modular armour idea, and its excellent gun and mobility. However you've overlooked 3 designs that I think are kinda cool: Japanese Type-10 and French Leclerc, and, of course, the M1 Abrams. The art is really cool - makes me think of the leopard 2A6.
Last edited by Greater Marine on Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Republic of Greater Marine
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Radio Eldorado 1:
MNS Constitution to do combat patrols in Red Sea following Houthi Attacks| Greater Marine sends first F-16s to Ukraine |White Christmas in Greater Marine as snow falls in Eldorado |Jameson reiterates call for ceasefire in Gaza war, says “this is no time for war. It is a time for diplomacy.” |BREAKING: Astronaut Jessica Alvarado becomes first Marinian on lunar surface| Greater Marine and ISO launch manned moon landing| ISO founded by Greater Marine and CSL| Greater Marine evacuating citizens of Shieldstan due to nuclear launch fear| President puts nuclear forces on standby|
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European Federal Union
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Founded: Sep 25, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby European Federal Union » Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:24 am

Im once again regretting my mistakes, why didnt I brought this viewtopic.php?p=41197753#p41197753
IC: United Europe, NS partially cannon policies also partially cannon
OOC: This nation reprisents parts of my irl political views
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

Big weapons big inpact, so buy my guns
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Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries
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Postby Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries » Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:26 am

Greater Marine wrote:The art is really cool - makes me think of the leopard 2A6.

Personally I was going for the Abrams Thumper/Leopard 140 crossed with KF41 vibe. with the angled turret elements and comically large gun
NS stats have been rounded up and swiss-cheese'd by local militia in an alleyway.

Karl von Larenz invited to Moscow to see Destroyed M1A1 Abrams “Only one Abrams? You should come visit one of our scrapyards next time, you’d be surprised.” He remarks.

Want Cheap Equipment? Visit Karl's Warehouse!
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Hrstrovokia
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Postby Hrstrovokia » Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:29 am

Signup for AIAE 2024

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Azmeny
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Postby Azmeny » Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:30 pm

Hrstrovokia wrote:
Signup for AIAE 2024

  • Nation name: Yugoslav Federative Republic of Hrstrovokia
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  • characters attending: David Lazarević

Application granted, looking forward to see you there!
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Janpia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Janpia » Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:34 pm

Greater Marine wrote:
Janpia wrote:
Nah, its not exactly separated. It works like a normal bustle. Pretty sure I made an entire paragraph of how it works on me Arbiter tank



I'd doubt you could apply composite covers on tracks since they are quite heavy per se. Thats why most modern armor are only focused on the front turret cheeks (since statistically, most hostile projectiles lands there). As for the composites itself, while true that Aluminum is slightly stronger than steel especially in cold areas, it is susceptible that they would leak a certain air substance after being fired at by HEAT, which I forgor, that could be dangerous to the crew inside. But regardless, the armor seems quite good, could see it almost comparable to Merkava armor.

As for the sensors, cant really tell much given the details is quite lacking such as the type of lasers used, the nm for the sights etc. But I'll just assume its a third generation FLIR like every modern tanks. But overall it looks good for me at the very least.

And ig everyone is now copying me Witch II system as well as me fire control systems on me Arbiter

But ye ig in total, its like Merkava Mk. 4 but mated with the Arbiter.

So what could I put on the sides of the track for protection? The Alumninium and Titanium mentioned could also be used in areas other than the armour - such as mechanical or structural components instead, so I will likely keep that feature (as I haven't specified where its used).

The laser RF is a Raman laser.
The gunner's sights have a 16x Optical zoom (as well as 72x digital), whereas the commander's sight is a 360 degree panoramic design with up to 48x digital zoom.
Both sights feature 2-axis stabilisation of both the optical elements and the sensor.

The tank sights feature 2 sensors, whose output is combined digitally: a dual-band infrared sensor which has a 3-5um mid-wave band and an 8-12um far infrared band, and a colour daytime sensor with some near IR capability, with a 48MP resolution. The IR sensors are cooled to increase performance. The data is digitally combined, allowing greater precision, and then matched via AI to the tank's database of 2 terabytes of data on known friendly and hostile equipment. This then is used to identify and detect targets, and create firing solutions for the selected target.

The distributed IR sensors are relatively speaking much cheaper and lower resolution, but offer panoramic coverage, and automatic warning of incoming missiles and drones. This is fed into the tank's computer system along with the APS's radars and the data from laser/radar warning receivers. The computer calculates the probability of the threat, and reacts to it automatically by 1) engaging hard kill APS 2) engaging the RCWS 3) using smoke grenades and flares, and turning off the engine or 4) using laser dazzlers to blind ATGM seekers and drone cameras. In addition, it will pre-emptively prepare fire suppression and other damage control systems for use.

The suspension also, bizarrely, has some advanced sensors - such as a LIDAR that scans the ground immediately ahead and adjusts the firmness of the hydropneumatics suspension to increase stability on rough ground. It also serves as a proximity warning sensor like those found on cars (although if you hit a wall when parking a tank, the wall will probably sustain more damage). This feature is actually patented by GCM-Mondial group, the automaker who helped design and build the tank, and appeared on the Mondial XLS limousine well before it did on the aggressor III, though in a less high-end version.


Just woke up, so probably bear with me funni engrish for a bit. Sorry for that.

If you mean on the sides, tbh normal side skirts made up from homogenous steel would work fine especially against artillery fragments whatnot. As for the hull, that depends on you, but I wouldn't suggest composite plates for that matter given that they are incredibly heavy. As for the Arbiter, I use something similar to AMAP, which acts more like a spaced armor for the outer layer and homogenous armor for the hull itself.

LIDAR sensors requires heavy power even for a tank engine that is already providing power for a multitude of electronics (360 IR, laser dazzlers, and all that. Its like you mixed all electronics of known tanks tbh, but nothing wrong with it ig. Downside would be heavy power requirement, which in turn, bigger IR signature. Which sorta negates the reason for the hybrid engine. But thats just a self-conclusion I could make), and it doesnt just work similar to a car given that this has authority over hydropneumatics. As to why would you need hydropneumatics for something more than 60 tons heavy I'd assume, I honestly don't know. But I'd assume you also did the cost-weight-effectiveness balance on that. A hydropneumatic suspension requires heavier power and strain to the suspension itself, which would make it much more maintenance heavy, meaning more parts to guide, and yea, more complex in general even on operation. For this reason iirc is why it wasn't adopted to the Abrams tank, since you would also need additional hydraulic fluids, integral oil damper, etc. Other requirements such as nitrogen pump and among others are also gonna be included for each pump valve. But yes, doctrinally wise, would you really need that and are you also heavily planning to use mountains or hills more than flat terrain or treelines? The answer is on you. Also worth mentioning, a LIDAR imo would probably make it have a large digital footprint but its up to you ig as well.

Tho Im sure the IR sensors and LWD are pretty much available on every modern tank. The automatic function as well, though I could already guess where you took the RCWS idea..... But for the specific on the IR itself, I could see that its based off the K2 if Im guessing on the laser. Or probably similar to PNK-6 given the spectrum. But with the given spectrum, the maximum identification range would probably be at around 5500 meter visual channel for the database to properly identify targs Source

But yes, I could see how the fire control systems are copied from the Arbiter for some reason with context based aim and all that kinda rethink for a bit if I should even sell the Arbiter in the first place tbh. Honestly feels quite shite on what Ive researched for a few months was easily just copypasted but yes, it seems proper ig. Only gripes would be the zoom part especially on the digital ones. Modern tanks can go as far as 60x iirc. Specifically the Abrams. Leopards iirc can go as far as somewhere 20 or 25x which is more of the standard or usual ones. Russian tanks iirc goes up to 15x(?), Im not sure on that. But its definitely lower than 20x zoom standard
Last edited by Janpia on Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Janpia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Janpia » Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:35 pm

Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries wrote:I am making a western tank with russian/combloc characteristics... (152/125mm gun). I also plan on displaying it here as a proof-of concept.

Idk if i should use the Leopard/Challenger setup as a baseline, or should I go for the CATTB/K2 setup...

or a mix of both?

OOC: my current proof of concept below -
(Image)

Theres a certain reason why Leopards store ammunition on the hull. But I'd leave you to take a guess for it.

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Greater Marine
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Greater Marine » Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:11 am

Janpia wrote:-snip-

Edit: OK, I'll replace the suspension LIDAR with cameras (given thats how the Rolls-Royce system I based it on works). I''ll scale back the gunsight digital zoom to 60x, and the commander's sight to 40x

FYI, the tank doesn't weigh 60 tons - it weighs 55 and a bit. And active hydropneumatic suspension has been used on the K-2 which is a similar mass. How by the way could I increase the target ID range of the thermals? Sorry to pester you again on this, but I want to get this thing to work properly. And I fully appreciate how frustrating responding to this must be. I didn't entirely copy and paste the JP-2 sensors - as you correctly guessed, most of this is from the K-2, a tank I barely thought of a week ago, but the one which has now guided the sensor and sight development.
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MNS Constitution to do combat patrols in Red Sea following Houthi Attacks| Greater Marine sends first F-16s to Ukraine |White Christmas in Greater Marine as snow falls in Eldorado |Jameson reiterates call for ceasefire in Gaza war, says “this is no time for war. It is a time for diplomacy.” |BREAKING: Astronaut Jessica Alvarado becomes first Marinian on lunar surface| Greater Marine and ISO launch manned moon landing| ISO founded by Greater Marine and CSL| Greater Marine evacuating citizens of Shieldstan due to nuclear launch fear| President puts nuclear forces on standby|
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Janpia
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Founded: Jul 20, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Janpia » Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:14 am

Greater Marine wrote:
Janpia wrote:-snip-

Edit: OK, I'll replace the suspension LIDAR with cameras (given thats how the Rolls-Royce system I based it on works). I''ll scale back the gunsight digital zoom to 60x, and the commander's sight to 40x

FYI, the tank doesn't weigh 60 tons - it weighs 55 and a bit. And active hydropneumatic suspension has been used on the K-2 which is a similar mass. How by the way could I increase the target ID range of the thermals? Sorry to pester you again on this, but I want to get this thing to work properly. And I fully appreciate how frustrating responding to this must be. I didn't entirely copy and paste the JP-2 sensors - as you correctly guessed, most of this is from the K-2, a tank I barely thought of a week ago, but the one which has now guided the sensor and sight development.


Since South Korea is 70% mountains, the K2 was primarily designed to operate in those types. Thus the need for hydropneumatics. But yes, its your choice. Nothing much I could do about it. And yes, the cameras seems much more optimal and feasible than a LIDAR tbh. Easy to install, maintain, or operate. Not to mention low signature as well, as compared to LIDAR.

As for the sights or the sensors, you could probably increase the spectral band range beyond your current 8-12 nm. iirc, doing so would only expand the thermal radiation capture it could get, which ig would also translate to better clear sight visuals. Haven't checked the most powerful spectral band range yet for FLIR. (So decided to research while writing this)

So apparently, the strongest I found is from raytheon with 6-15 and 15-30nm. Which looking back, ig your 8-12nm isnt really that bad as compared to slightly higher standards. (Source (do note that the 30-100 and 100-1000nm is for far flir, meaning what it is capable of. But Im guessing it does not translate for effective sighting. Like reading a small sentence. Yes you could read it when you are close to it, but reading it from a far would be impossible, even though if you can see the "sentence" itself.) But I just set my Arbiter at around 12 - 17 nm which can go up to 50x zoom. But ig is all up to you on how you define your spectral range. You could probably even market your tank as having much better sights than the current EZV-3 sensors that we use for the Arbiter.
Last edited by Janpia on Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:32 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries
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Postby Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries » Tue Mar 12, 2024 4:41 am

Janpia wrote:Leopards store ammunition on the hull. But I'd leave you to take a guess for it.

Well... I guess you could say that worked rather well for the 2a4 pictured below...
Image
NS stats have been rounded up and swiss-cheese'd by local militia in an alleyway.

Karl von Larenz invited to Moscow to see Destroyed M1A1 Abrams “Only one Abrams? You should come visit one of our scrapyards next time, you’d be surprised.” He remarks.

Want Cheap Equipment? Visit Karl's Warehouse!
A bunch of space mercs Authoritarian oligarchy led by Karl von Larenz
Member of KTO, Founder of FWC

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Janpia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Janpia » Tue Mar 12, 2024 4:58 am

Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries wrote:
Janpia wrote:Leopards store ammunition on the hull. But I'd leave you to take a guess for it.

Well... I guess you could say that worked rather well for the 2a4 pictured below...
Image

Ok. So foremost, the Leopard's compartment is quite small. Thus why some excess ammunition are stored on the compartment. Now imagine replacing 120mm to 152mm. Where would you put those ammunition?

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Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries
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Postby Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries » Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:04 am

Janpia wrote:-snip-

This is a good question, but then because the 152 is gonna be 2-piece, we could use it for room to store extra propellant cases...

Or I could redesign the turret to mount a bustle loader and move all ammo to turret back in a blowout protected compartment?
NS stats have been rounded up and swiss-cheese'd by local militia in an alleyway.

Karl von Larenz invited to Moscow to see Destroyed M1A1 Abrams “Only one Abrams? You should come visit one of our scrapyards next time, you’d be surprised.” He remarks.

Want Cheap Equipment? Visit Karl's Warehouse!
A bunch of space mercs Authoritarian oligarchy led by Karl von Larenz
Member of KTO, Founder of FWC

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Janpia
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Founded: Jul 20, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Janpia » Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:06 am

Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries wrote:
Janpia wrote:-snip-

This is a good question, but then because the 152 is gonna be 2-piece, we could use it for room to store extra propellant cases...

Or I could redesign the turret to mount a bustle loader and move all ammo to turret back in a blowout protected compartment?

Even with a bustle, its still gonna struggle. Theres a reason why India's attempt to mate the Arjun turret to a T-72 hull failed. Thats not mentioning how few the ammunition would be with 152mm. Like it would be just 5 to 10 at best. Again, entire thing isnt looking feasible

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Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries
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Postby Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries » Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:20 am

Janpia wrote:Theres a reason why India's attempt to mate the Arjun turret to a T-72 hull failed. Thats not mentioning how few the ammunition would be with 152mm. Like it would be just 5 to 10 at best. Again, entire thing isnt looking feasible

That's why we're going with the Abrams hull.
(I might be switching out for a CATTB or Altay turret to carry an even more shitload of shells)
NS stats have been rounded up and swiss-cheese'd by local militia in an alleyway.

Karl von Larenz invited to Moscow to see Destroyed M1A1 Abrams “Only one Abrams? You should come visit one of our scrapyards next time, you’d be surprised.” He remarks.

Want Cheap Equipment? Visit Karl's Warehouse!
A bunch of space mercs Authoritarian oligarchy led by Karl von Larenz
Member of KTO, Founder of FWC

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The Astral Mandate
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Astral Mandate » Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:23 am

I've been running feasibility tests on the Gonswanzan drone, and the results are mixed.
A hypersonic vehicle could have a workable turn radius, but the shape required for this is questionably drone-like.
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Janpia
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Founded: Jul 20, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Janpia » Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:34 am

Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries wrote:
Janpia wrote:Theres a reason why India's attempt to mate the Arjun turret to a T-72 hull failed. Thats not mentioning how few the ammunition would be with 152mm. Like it would be just 5 to 10 at best. Again, entire thing isnt looking feasible

That's why we're going with the Abrams hull.
(I might be switching out for a CATTB or Altay turret to carry an even more shitload of shells)

A CATTB cannot even carry more than 15 shells iirc lol

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Gonswanza
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Posts: 4936
Founded: Aug 13, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Gonswanza » Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:36 am

The Astral Mandate wrote:I've been running feasibility tests on the Gonswanzan drone, and the results are mixed.
A hypersonic vehicle could have a workable turn radius, but the shape required for this is questionably drone-like.

Hypersonic realm is mach 5+, supersonic is mach 1-4.9, and I had to base it's speed off the SLAM which on paper should be hitting around mach 4.3 at altitude and mach 3-3.5 on the deck. So I went with the middle ground.

Janpia wrote:
Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries wrote:That's why we're going with the Abrams hull.
(I might be switching out for a CATTB or Altay turret to carry an even more shitload of shells)

A CATTB cannot even carry more than 15 shells iirc lol

This is the same person who thinks an antipodal bomber is still viable in the modern day.
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Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries
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Founded: Aug 30, 2022
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries » Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:46 am

Janpia wrote:
Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries wrote:That's why we're going with the Abrams hull.
(I might be switching out for a CATTB or Altay turret to carry an even more shitload of shells)

A CATTB cannot even carry more than 15 shells iirc lol

Alright you know what forget what I said I am going back to using the T-80 and its derivatives then...
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