A Storm of Swords (OOC/Invite Only/ATTN: RI/AI)

[The United Remnants of America]

@RI

What does the Irish Military look like? the IRL one has a whopping 10,300 personnel which would be utterly incapable of any offensive operations of any kind.

So in my lore Ireland has about 20 mil population and around 1 mil of them are military, they have have around 200,000 armored ground vehicles [including tanks]

3 carriers [provided by us]

6 escort carriers

20 cruisers

40 Destroyers

70 various other craft including the ships that the coast guard uses for Battle


About 1000 various aircraft [no refuel planes since they don't really do offensive]

Most of their military equient is bought/gifted by romanic imperuim

I don't want to really shit on your parade here.

Conscription and its effects on economy and population aside.

But based on the equipment listed for a military force of a million conscripts.

I hope you realize that probably 50%+ of the equipment you listed is likely mothballed or in some state of disuse. And that's for the simple fact that you don't have enough people in the military to use all of it.

200,000 armored vehicles alone, being tanks or APCs, would require about 600,000 to a million people just to crew and operate. That's not even thinking of literally anything else an Army needs, let alone who's crewing those ships and aircraft.

So, realistically, unless you're running skeleton crews in everything just so it's mobile, most of those armored vehicles, ships, and aircraft would be mothballed.

[Shazbotdom]

@RI

What does the Irish Military look like? the IRL one has a whopping 10,300 personnel which would be utterly incapable of any offensive operations of any kind.

So in my lore Ireland has about 20 mil population and around 1 mil of them are military, they have have around 200,000 armored ground vehicles [including tanks]

3 carriers [provided by us]

6 escort carriers

20 cruisers

40 Destroyers

70 various other craft including the ships that the coast guard uses for Battle


About 1000 various aircraft [no refuel planes since they don't really do offensive]

Most of their military equient is bought/gifted by romanic imperuim

I hope that 1 Million isn't Active Military Personell. Because you also have to account for any and all Support persons. Which, if I remember correctly, would be a 3 to 1 ratio. So you're looking at 3 Million support. Take 4 million people out of an active economy and it would crash worse than an Amtrak Train going 200mph through a steep turn.

I suggest just reworking all your numbers and try again.

[Phenyzia]

So in my lore Ireland has about 20 mil population and around 1 mil of them are military, they have have around 200,000 armored ground vehicles [including tanks]

3 carriers [provided by us]

6 escort carriers

20 cruisers

40 Destroyers

70 various other craft including the ships that the coast guard uses for Battle


About 1000 various aircraft [no refuel planes since they don't really do offensive]

Most of their military equient is bought/gifted by romanic imperuim

I don't want to really shit on your parade here.

Conscription and its effects on economy and population aside.

But based on the equipment listed for a military force of a million conscripts.

I hope you realize that probably 50%+ of the equipment you listed is likely mothballed or in some state of disuse. And that's for the simple fact that you don't have enough people in the military to use all of it.

200,000 armored vehicles alone, being tanks or APCs, would require about 600,000 to a million people just to crew and operate. That's not even thinking of literally anything else an Army needs, let alone who's crewing those ships and aircraft.

So, realistically, unless you're running skeleton crews in everything just so it's mobile, most of those armored vehicles, ships, and aircraft would be mothballed.

Now TO BE FAIR. It is possible to have a ridiculous army and military spending. I believe the soviet union during the late 80's gave almost 50% of it's budget to the military at some point. Phenyzia for example is doing a similar thing, their economy is pretty much non-functional.

[Romanic Imperium]

edited

[Seorabeol Federation]

I don't want to really shit on your parade here.

Conscription and its effects on economy and population aside.

But based on the equipment listed for a military force of a million conscripts.

I hope you realize that probably 50%+ of the equipment you listed is likely mothballed or in some state of disuse. And that's for the simple fact that you don't have enough people in the military to use all of it.

200,000 armored vehicles alone, being tanks or APCs, would require about 600,000 to a million people just to crew and operate. That's not even thinking of literally anything else an Army needs, let alone who's crewing those ships and aircraft.

So, realistically, unless you're running skeleton crews in everything just so it's mobile, most of those armored vehicles, ships, and aircraft would be mothballed.

Now TO BE FAIR. It is possible to have a ridiculous army and military spending. I believe the soviet union during the late 80's gave almost 50% of it's budget to the military at some point. Phenyzia for example is doing a similar thing, their economy is pretty much non-functional.

The way to bring a country that invests half its economy in the military to its knees is not through war. Just leave them alone and their economy will collapse and the country will collapse as well. A country that invests a large part of its economy in the military cannot sustain itself by staying still without war. But if the country goes to war, it will be destroyed immediately. Even without war.

Take the Soviet Union in the 1980s for example. Yes. In the 1980s, the Soviet Union invested most of its economy in the military. As a result, the Soviet economy was already functioning abnormally when Gorbachev took office. Excessive armaments investment has been cited as the main cause of the Soviet economic failure. If a country's economy worsens, it means fewer resources are available to invest in the country's military. In that situation, if the government maintains the amount of resources that it invests in its military, the country's economy gets worse, and then the government has fewer resources that it can invest in its military. This vicious cycle repeats itself.

[Phenyzia]

Now TO BE FAIR. It is possible to have a ridiculous army and military spending. I believe the soviet union during the late 80's gave almost 50% of it's budget to the military at some point. Phenyzia for example is doing a similar thing, their economy is pretty much non-functional.

The way to bring a country that invests half its economy in the military to its knees is not through war. Just leave them alone and their economy will collapse and the country will collapse as well. A country that invests a large part of its economy in the military cannot sustain itself by staying still without war. But if the country goes to war, it will be destroyed immediately. Even without war.

Take the Soviet Union in the 1980s for example. Yes. In the 1980s, the Soviet Union invested most of its economy in the military. As a result, the Soviet economy was already functioning abnormally when Gorbachev took office. Excessive armaments investment has been cited as the main cause of the Soviet economic failure. If a country's economy worsens, it means fewer resources are available to invest in the country's military. In that situation, if the government maintains the amount of resources that it invests in its military, the country's economy gets worse, and then the government has fewer resources that it can invest in its military. This vicious cycle repeats itself.

I am aware of this cycle. My point was mostly that there is historical precedent for such ridiculous spending, but it's not sustainable and leads to a collapse unless one goes completely totalitarian like north korea.

[Undemocacy]

Hey, Undemocracy.

What are transport and patrol fleets in your nation?

I've got them written here https://www.nationstates.net/nation=und ... id=1620314

[New Aeyariss]

I am aware of this cycle. My point was mostly that there is historical precedent for such ridiculous spending, but it's not sustainable and leads to a collapse unless one goes completely totalitarian like north korea.

Becoming a totalitarian state is least of your worries, TBH.

High level of military spending does not lead to an efficient military. On the contrary, high chances are that Phenyzian military will perform in a similar fashion to Russians during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine.

Sheer size of Phenyzian army would likely result in lack of quality officers and ncos. Phenyzian army would be poorly trained, demoralised and poorly led. In the age of network centric warfare and precision guided munitions, that is a very bad thing to have.

Such a level of military spending will also harm the economy.

[Phenyzia]

I am aware of this cycle. My point was mostly that there is historical precedent for such ridiculous spending, but it's not sustainable and leads to a collapse unless one goes completely totalitarian like north korea.

Becoming a totalitarian state is least of your worries, TBH.

High level of military spending does not lead to an efficient military. On the contrary, high chances are that Phenyzian military will perform in a similar fashion to Russians during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine.

Sheer size of Phenyzian army would likely result in lack of quality officers and ncos. Phenyzian army would be poorly trained, demoralised and poorly led. In the age of network centric warfare and precision guided munitions, that is a very bad thing to have.

Such a level of military spending will also harm the economy.

Oh, absolutely. The Imperial Military combines fun things like the IJA-IJN style rivalry between branches to the point that the navy has started running its own air force and army, the army has begun setting up its own air force and the air force has its own ground forces too, a ww1 style officer corps that mostly appoints based on titles and heritage than merit, complete reliance on conscription outside of special forces, every branch procurring its own equipment independently combined with a massive disparity in what divisions are equipped with leading to whichever poor soul has to handle logistics probably regretting their life choices. At worst case some get sent with whats essentially basic AKs and T-54s, because why would you throw smething thats obsolete away if instead you can just add MORE gear to the pile and end up with a dozen tank models in service.

So no, arguably the imperial military would likely perform worse than Russia but try to compensate by just throwing everything and the kitchen sink at the problem and overwhelm the problem with sheer quantity.

I am very much working through the whole checklist of how not to run a military.

[The United Remnants of America]

I don't want to really shit on your parade here.

Conscription and its effects on economy and population aside.

But based on the equipment listed for a military force of a million conscripts.

I hope you realize that probably 50%+ of the equipment you listed is likely mothballed or in some state of disuse. And that's for the simple fact that you don't have enough people in the military to use all of it.

200,000 armored vehicles alone, being tanks or APCs, would require about 600,000 to a million people just to crew and operate. That's not even thinking of literally anything else an Army needs, let alone who's crewing those ships and aircraft.

So, realistically, unless you're running skeleton crews in everything just so it's mobile, most of those armored vehicles, ships, and aircraft would be mothballed.

Now TO BE FAIR. It is possible to have a ridiculous army and military spending. I believe the soviet union during the late 80's gave almost 50% of it's budget to the military at some point. Phenyzia for example is doing a similar thing, their economy is pretty much non-functional.

Hey, Phen, I'm glad you asked.

My point has nothing to do with spending.

I actually agree that you have the freedom to shoot your country in the foot and dump your entire GDP if you want into the military. It wouldn't do anything good, normally, but it's a thing you can do.

But my point wasn't about funding. In the circumstance of Ireland, I'm not arguing whether or not Ireland can afford to buy or build that equipment. I'm not even going to bring up how much it would take to maintain the equipment.

Ireland just doesn't have the people to fight in a military with that much equipment. To put it simply: Ireland has more tanks than it does soldiers to put into the tanks.

And that's just tanks. If every soldier in Ireland's million-man military is crewing those armored vehicles, there would be 0 people in the military to crew the ships or the aircraft RI says Ireland has.

This isn't even counting all the things RI didn't list that we would realistically expect a military to have. Like Infantry. Command and administration. Logistics. Someone who cooks food.

I'm not saying RI can't have Ireland having that much equipment, I'm only pointing out that he either needs to:
- increase the number of personnel in the military by a couple orders of magnitude
- accept that most of Ireland's equipment, even if gifted to them for free and somehow maintained properly, is non-functional due to lack of personnel
OR
- rethink what Ireland's military looks like.

Note: This is all a lot of discussion about an NPC that only matters if we want it to matter. But I'm willing to help.

[The United Remnants of America]

Hey, Undemocracy.

What are transport and patrol fleets in your nation?

I've got them written here https://www.nationstates.net/nation=und ... id=1620314

Based and very interesting how you've organized it.

[Romanic Imperium]

Okay I crunched some numbers and upped and lowered some things

[New Aeyariss]

I also need to point out that since 1980s the prince of military gear has been surging due to inclusion of advanced electronics.

Hence today's armies field far lesser vehicles than their 1980s counterparts.


I would the number of 120 000 to be a good number for Ireland.

[The United Remnants of America]

Giving credit where it's due.

That was one of the best posts I've seen from you yet AI
Good job.

[Awesome Imperium]

Giving credit where it's due.

That was one of the best posts I've seen from you yet AI
Good job.

Thanks (I'm not sure if that was genuine or sarcastic but ok.)

[Sonakion]

Oh so this is where its all happening

[New Roma Republic]

Oh so this is where its all happening

It wasn't a secret

[Romanic Imperium]

Irish surrender is up and I'm working on the other post now

[Sonakion]

Oh so this is where its all happening

It wasn't a secret

I thought it had died or been resolved of something. The CIS really needs to bet some sort of more organised responce on this.

[Guadalupador]

It wasn't a secret

I thought it had died or been resolved of something. The CIS really needs to bet some sort of more organised responce on this.

Nah it aint dead.

[Awesome Imperium]

I thought it had died or been resolved of something. The CIS really needs to bet some sort of more organised responce on this.

Nah it aint dead.

You justs attacked my forces!? I litterly made multiple posts in OOC and IC that stated my forces were helping with the infastructure and were in the major ports and coastal area!

[Guadalupador]

Nah it aint dead.

You justs attacked my forces!? I litterly made multiple posts in OOC and IC that stated my forces were helping with the infastructure and were in the major ports and coastal area!

I targeted the Romanic Imperium's emplacements and installations. You would've noticed that if you read my post. He and I talked about it earlier over discord.

And which coastal areas are you even talking about?

[Awesome Imperium]

You justs attacked my forces!? I litterly made multiple posts in OOC and IC that stated my forces were helping with the infastructure and were in the major ports and coastal area!

I targeted the Romanic Imperium's emplacements and installations. You would've noticed that if you read my post. He and I talked about it earlier over discord.

And which coastal areas are you even talking about?

Normandy, Coast of Belgica, Aquitaine et Brittany, basically most of the French and British Coast along the English Channel.

[Guadalupador]

I targeted the Romanic Imperium's emplacements and installations. You would've noticed that if you read my post. He and I talked about it earlier over discord.

And which coastal areas are you even talking about?

Normandy, Coast of Belgica, Aquitaine et Brittany, basically most of the French and British Coast along the English Channel.

Doesn't RI have all of that beside Belgium?

[Awesome Imperium]

Normandy, Coast of Belgica, Aquitaine et Brittany, basically most of the French and British Coast along the English Channel.

Doesn't RI have all of that besides Belgium?

I'm the ally that is not involved in the war just yet but assisting him via diplomatic and military support as well as a strong military presence in the area, and if you see my previous posts I sent a message to IFC saying I'm not at war yet but I will be if my forces are attacked.