The East Osovian Civil War REDUX [Semi-Open/MT] (OOC)

[Laka Strolistandiler]

SA, I’ve specifically stated that my aircraft were moving away after launching on you. Moreover, you’ve stated that your planes would begin “moving away from the missiles after avoiding them”, which at very least implies you changing direction, and thus Fokkers being able to at least stay out of range of your IR missiles.
Also at such speeds .50 bullets will loose speed at extreme rate bcause low inertia and high relative speed of the air, keep that in mind, which would make the ballistics of your guns near awful.

I stated that my planes were moving away from the missiles to avoid them. And while yes, SLAP rounds will not have good due to inertia, their aerodynamics and the sheer amount of powder packed into a SLAP round tends to offset this. The relative speed between the fighters should be either equal or in Bravo Squadron's favor, so relative speed would not be a huge problem.

Changing directions already bleeds your speed no matter in what direction you do it. Moreover than that even if we consider that your planes did energy-consuming maneuvers, like for example, maneuvers including diving or something like that, they still bleed relative speed compared to Fokkers. Sure, the speed of the planes may be equal, however, the altitude will not be- even if they were initially diving on Fokkers (which shouldn’t have happened because initially their main plan was to gain initial energy advantage over the enemy planes by flying at highest possible altitude regardless of speed. Your planes approached them at altitude of approx 6.1 km which is well within altitude the Fokkers should be flying at.

Just took a look at SLAP rounds, because curious. While they are built to be used against aircraft (as well as light armor), they really shouldn't be fired from planes, as the discarded sabot has a tendency to damage the aircraft's engines. In fact, all discarding sabot rounds should be avoided when arming a plane really.

Which is peculiarly interesting because of the Lightning Mk 12’s engine air intake location which, if the guns are positioned like on the other planes of this intake design- F-86 being a prime example would mean that the discarding sabot would be getting into the intake in no time

[East Osovia]

I stated that my planes were moving away from the missiles to avoid them. And while yes, SLAP rounds will not have good due to inertia, their aerodynamics and the sheer amount of powder packed into a SLAP round tends to offset this. The relative speed between the fighters should be either equal or in Bravo Squadron's favor, so relative speed would not be a huge problem.

Changing directions already bleeds your speed no matter in what direction you do it. Moreover than that even if we consider that your planes did energy-consuming maneuvers, like for example, maneuvers including diving or something like that, they still bleed relative speed compared to Fokkers. Sure, the speed of the planes may be equal, however, the altitude will not be- even if they were initially diving on Fokkers (which shouldn’t have happened because initially their main plan was to gain initial energy advantage over the enemy planes by flying at highest possible altitude regardless of speed. Your planes approached them at altitude of approx 6.1 km which is well within altitude the Fokkers should be flying at.

Furthermore, because of energy bleeding maneuvers, the South Americanastanian planes should not be able to just pull up and reach my planes' altitude. First, the Osovian jets are starting at a higher altitude than the SA jets, and second they did not keep nearly enough of their original energy to bounce all the way back to even their original starting altitude immediately.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Furthermore, because of energy bleeding maneuvers, the South Americanastanian planes should not be able to just pull up and reach my planes' altitude. First, the Osovian jets are starting at a higher altitude than the SA jets, and second they did not keep nearly enough of their original energy to bounce all the way back to even their original starting altitude immediately.

I’d like to add that taking into consideration that this version of the plane flies at speeds approaching 3M it should mean that it:
#1 Has terrible stealth and extremely high RCS due to airframe being solely built around suppressing extreme heat and not ripping because of flutter which forces us to make the plane as “sleek” as possible, with a very high aerodynamically characteristics which kills any possibility to introduce radar-absorbing shapes and material, as well as things like S-shaped air intakes which are all essential to reducing the RCS of the plane.
#2 Has extremely poor energy retention due to engines being designed for high-speed flight and performing poorly at speeds below 2M
#3 Has poor maneuverability even at high speeds- I’m just going to point at MiG-25 and A-12, couldn’t be better examples than these two fellas

[South Americanastan]

Furthermore, because of energy bleeding maneuvers, the South Americanastanian planes should not be able to just pull up and reach my planes' altitude. First, the Osovian jets are starting at a higher altitude than the SA jets, and second they did not keep nearly enough of their original energy to bounce all the way back to even their original starting altitude immediately.

I’d like to add that taking into consideration that this version of the plane flies at speeds approaching 3M it should mean that it:
#1 Has terrible stealth and extremely high RCS due to airframe being solely built around suppressing extreme heat and not ripping because of flutter which forces us to make the plane as “sleek” as possible, with a very high aerodynamically characteristics which kills any possibility to introduce radar-absorbing shapes and material, as well as things like S-shaped air intakes which are all essential to reducing the RCS of the plane.
#2 Has extremely poor energy retention due to engines being designed for high-speed flight and performing poorly at speeds below 2M
#3 Has poor maneuverability even at high speeds- I’m just going to point at MiG-25 and A-12, couldn’t be better examples than these two fellas

First off, there's a reason it's a Strike fighter and not a Stealth Fighter. Second off, there's something called *ahem* acceleration, even if they lose energy, they'll just gun it straight after and reach get back to top speed in about 20-30 seconds. Third, it's specifically built for Mach 3. It's not a plane that can do Mach 3, it's a plane meant to operate there, so it's able to maneuver well. The entire point of it is just to be air blitzkrieg. Also, for fuck's sake, nobody, especially not me, said the MGs were directly on the nose of the aircraft. Any competent aircraft designer wouldn't put a SLAP mg on the nose of an aircraft. They are embedded into the aircraft slightly to the side of the intake, with the sabots ejecting outward, away from the aircraft. At worst they'll hit the wings, doing nothing other than making a loud sound.

[South Americanastan]

Also, Laka, how are your planes, which you have specified multiple times to me across two seperate RPs to be specialized in low-speed flight, managing to figure out that the bombers have taken off, running out of the briefing room, getting into their aircraft, taking off, and reaching my aircraft over the course of what is AT MOST 1 minute and 30 seconds

[Polish Prussian Commonwealth]

Note: I have updated my ORBAT to include:
>+1 F-35PP squadron.
>+1 Visby-class guided missile cruiser.
>+1 squadron of arsenal aircraft. These are converted Tu-95s stuffed to the brim with AAMs that take targets in via datalink.

Is this alright?

[East Osovia]

Note: I have updated my ORBAT to include:
>+1 F-35PP squadron.
>+1 Visby-class guided missile cruiser.
>+1 squadron of arsenal aircraft. These are converted Tu-95s stuffed to the brim with AAMs that take targets in via datalink.

Is this alright?

Force change accepted.

[Polish Prussian Commonwealth]

Note: I have updated my ORBAT to include:
>+1 F-35PP squadron.
>+1 Visby-class guided missile cruiser.
>+1 squadron of arsenal aircraft. These are converted Tu-95s stuffed to the brim with AAMs that take targets in via datalink.

Is this alright?

Force change accepted.

I forgot to mention: I also am adding additional logistical aircraft like tankers and transports.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

First off, there's a reason it's a Strike fighter and not a Stealth Fighter. Second off, there's something called *ahem* acceleration, even if they lose energy, they'll just gun it straight after and reach get back to top speed in about 20-30 seconds. Third, it's specifically built for Mach 3. It's not a plane that can do Mach 3, it's a plane meant to operate there, so it's able to maneuver well. The entire point of it is just to be air blitzkrieg. Also, for fuck's sake, nobody, especially not me, said the MGs were directly on the nose of the aircraft. Any competent aircraft designer wouldn't put a SLAP mg on the nose of an aircraft. They are embedded into the aircraft slightly to the side of the intake, with the sabots ejecting outward, away from the aircraft. At worst they'll hit the wings, doing nothing other than making a loud sound.

Well, allow me to use the strongest magic in the world to defend my position: mathematics. Let’s say that your planes’ speed had dropped to 1,5 M after all the defensive maneuvers. Afterwards it accelerates to 3M in level flight (because calculating linear acceleration if it climbs/dives at the same time is far more difficult, but meh this would usually only mean an increase so who cares)over the course of 20 seconds. This gives us dv=510 m/s, and with the t=20 seconds this means that libear acceleration, calculated with the formula a=dv/t will be equal to 25.5 m/s^2. I’m correct, no real plane can accelerate at that rate- even the real F-15, which is one of the fastest accelerating fighters on the planet can have an acceleration of up to 5 m/s^2. And no, planes meant to operate at extremely high speeds are not very maneuverable there, for a multitude of reasons. Not going deep into detail those reasons are: G overload, aerodynamics, technological and design limitations, and most importantly the fact that a sharp maneuver with high AoA at such speeds would not just cause extreme overload but force the air stream to literally bend the aircraft in half.

Also, Laka, how are your planes, which you have specified multiple times to me across two seperate RPs to be specialized in low-speed flight, managing to figure out that the bombers have taken off, running out of the briefing room, getting into their aircraft, taking off, and reaching my aircraft over the course of what is AT MOST 1 minute and 30 seconds

Again, I’ve specified that my planes were taking off not at detecting the bombers themselves but instead by relying on information provided by ground units (which IS a standard procedure for Russian Air Force interceptions btw).
Also, I’ve already said that it’s absurd that it takes your planes only 1 minute 30 seconds to take off in all of their group and then get to the target, drop their payloads, again, United as one and then land, United as one. IRL it would take a single fighter at least 20 seconds to at very least take off, starting from the moment the next plane had cleared off the catapult if your carrier uses that EM-based catapult system,, otherwise attaching it to a steam catapult would take far more time, like 15 additional seconds. There are plenty of videos on carrier take off on YT that prove my words. Even if your carrier has 2 catapults, like most western-built carriers do, this still means that it would take approximately 3 minutes 15 seconds for a group of 10 jets to even take off.

[Polish Prussian Commonwealth]

posted, obviously

[South Americanastan]

First off, there's a reason it's a Strike fighter and not a Stealth Fighter. Second off, there's something called *ahem* acceleration, even if they lose energy, they'll just gun it straight after and reach get back to top speed in about 20-30 seconds. Third, it's specifically built for Mach 3. It's not a plane that can do Mach 3, it's a plane meant to operate there, so it's able to maneuver well. The entire point of it is just to be air blitzkrieg. Also, for fuck's sake, nobody, especially not me, said the MGs were directly on the nose of the aircraft. Any competent aircraft designer wouldn't put a SLAP mg on the nose of an aircraft. They are embedded into the aircraft slightly to the side of the intake, with the sabots ejecting outward, away from the aircraft. At worst they'll hit the wings, doing nothing other than making a loud sound.

Well, allow me to use the strongest magic in the world to defend my position: mathematics. Let’s say that your planes’ speed had dropped to 1,5 M after all the defensive maneuvers. Afterwards it accelerates to 3M in level flight (because calculating linear acceleration if it climbs/dives at the same time is far more difficult, but meh this would usually only mean an increase so who cares)over the course of 20 seconds. This gives us dv=510 m/s, and with the t=20 seconds this means that libear acceleration, calculated with the formula a=dv/t will be equal to 25.5 m/s^2. I’m correct, no real plane can accelerate at that rate- even the real F-15, which is one of the fastest accelerating fighters on the planet can have an acceleration of up to 5 m/s^2. And no, planes meant to operate at extremely high speeds are not very maneuverable there, for a multitude of reasons. Not going deep into detail those reasons are: G overload, aerodynamics, technological and design limitations, and most importantly the fact that a sharp maneuver with high AoA at such speeds would not just cause extreme overload but force the air stream to literally bend the aircraft in half.

Also, Laka, how are your planes, which you have specified multiple times to me across two seperate RPs to be specialized in low-speed flight, managing to figure out that the bombers have taken off, running out of the briefing room, getting into their aircraft, taking off, and reaching my aircraft over the course of what is AT MOST 1 minute and 30 seconds

Again, I’ve specified that my planes were taking off not at detecting the bombers themselves but instead by relying on information provided by ground units (which IS a standard procedure for Russian Air Force interceptions btw).
Also, I’ve already said that it’s absurd that it takes your planes only 1 minute 30 seconds to take off in all of their group and then get to the target, drop their payloads, again, United as one and then land, United as one. IRL it would take a single fighter at least 20 seconds to at very least take off, starting from the moment the next plane had cleared off the catapult if your carrier uses that EM-based catapult system,, otherwise attaching it to a steam catapult would take far more time, like 15 additional seconds. There are plenty of videos on carrier take off on YT that prove my words. Even if your carrier has 2 catapults, like most western-built carriers do, this still means that it would take approximately 3 minutes 15 seconds for a group of 10 jets to even take off.

Ah yes, I forgot that people could identify a group of bombers from 15 miles away. And don't even try to talk about G Overload when you use that bullshit "serum" that is physically impossible in any techs setting other than maybe FT.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Ah yes, I forgot that people could identify a group of bombers from 15 miles away. And don't even try to talk about G Overload when you use that bullshit "serum" that is physically impossible in any techs setting other than maybe FT.

IRL Su-57 Belka radar possesses look down shoot down capabilities, which well allows them to identify such targets
Also IRST which has a detection range of approx 20 kilometers (I can’t disclose sources but let’s just say that that’s the data for MiG-35 which possesses relatively the same IRST as Su-57
Also in this case I was not talking about G overload and it’s influence on pilots, I was talking about it’s influence on planes which is a completely different story.

[South Americanastan]

Ah yes, I forgot that people could identify a group of bombers from 15 miles away. And don't even try to talk about G Overload when you use that bullshit "serum" that is physically impossible in any techs setting other than maybe FT.

IRL Su-57 Belka radar possesses look down shoot down capabilities, which well allows them to identify such targets
Also IRST which has a detection range of approx 20 kilometers (I can’t disclose sources but let’s just say that that’s the data for MiG-35 which possesses relatively the same IRST as Su-57
Also in this case I was not talking about G overload and it’s influence on pilots, I was talking about it’s influence on planes which is a completely different story.

Don't dodge the question. How the fuck does the serum work?

[East Osovia]

Alright, more moderator time:

RP Moderation

Tech and Specs

There's been some heated back and forth about technology, specs, and mathematics recently, enough so that I believe it to be detracting from the RP. As such I will make an official ruling on situations like this.

Complaints about a nation's tech or specs is allowed, but sustained argument between the accuser and the accused is not. Both sides can present their statements, but I will independently research the topic in question and make an official ruling on it to the best of my ability. This both removes the potential for bias and keeps the OOC thread clear of incessant bickering.

Furthermore, while such things in question may be countered by mathematics, I will be applying the rule of "close enough" to a majority of these cases. Unless the stats or math is seriously outside the realm of modern tech I will most likely allow it. The reason for this is to prevent an extremely high barrier for entry. We cannot and will not expect everyone who wants to participate to have a PhD in Applied Physics. Thus, while such mathematics can be brought up in one's statement for or against a particular subject, I am making it clear that this will not be a hard limit.

If I find the statistics of something to be lacking enough realism to warrant denial, I will ask the nation of said statistics to alter them. At this point they may make a counter request, but this may or may not be accepted.

Rulings on Current Problems

Laka's Serum: I have already labelled this as PMT and given permission for use. There is no sense in trying to use it to discredit Laka as a means to back up one's own argument.

Speed and Timing of Planes: As both Laka and SA's planes are launching and arriving at extreme speeds, I will render any question as to whether the meeting of the two was possible null. The two sides have met and the canon will remain as such.

.50 Caliber SLAP Rounds: Even if the guns are positioned beside the intake, this is not how sabot works. Sabot is not "ejected" from the gun, rather discarded by the shot after it is in flight. This would still cause problems with the plane's intake as the sabot is still being discarded in in front of the intake. I'm not saying it needs to change, but I expect occasional issues or repairs to be required for this design flaw.

Energy and Maneuvers: Planes that have retained their dive energy will be able to escape a plane that has not simply because of the need to regain lost speed, which will take some amount of time. Not to mention the need to reorient the plane in the direction needed to pursuit such aircraft, which again takes time. The more time spent, the further the target gets.

Speed and Maneuverability: A plane travelling Mach 3 will have reduced maneuverability, regardless of design. Turns become wider with speed, and increased stress is put on the aircraft's frame when attempting to change momentum this drastically.

THUS

Ruling on Laka's Planes: These planes were able to arrive on time and engage their targets.

Ruling on SA's Planes: These planes are going to suffer occasional engine damage from the flaw of their weapon arrangement, but it won't make the planes completely unusable. The planes would be able to catch up to the fleeing Osovian aircraft with time, but not immediately. Maintaining high maneuverability at Mach 3 is unfeasible and is PMT I would only consider with serious drawbacks. SA's planes can keep their Mach 3 speed, but cannot operate efficiently at such extreme speeds.

Closing Statement

I am doing this only to keep the game balanced and unconvoluted. It can't be a full on free-for-all, but at the same time I am not going to control everyone. Please keep it civil. If there are any questions or concerns about anything please let me know. I am trying to moderate this as best I can.

- East Osovia

[Imperial Rifta]

Alright, more moderator time:

RP Moderation

Tech and Specs

There's been some heated back and forth about technology, specs, and mathematics recently, enough so that I believe it to be detracting from the RP. As such I will make an official ruling on situations like this.

Complaints about a nation's tech or specs is allowed, but sustained argument between the accuser and the accused is not. Both sides can present their statements, but I will independently research the topic in question and make an official ruling on it to the best of my ability. This both removes the potential for bias and keeps the OOC thread clear of incessant bickering.

Furthermore, while such things in question may be countered by mathematics, I will be applying the rule of "close enough" to a majority of these cases. Unless the stats or math is seriously outside the realm of modern tech I will most likely allow it. The reason for this is to prevent an extremely high barrier for entry. We cannot and will not expect everyone who wants to participate to have a PhD in Applied Physics. Thus, while such mathematics can be brought up in one's statement for or against a particular subject, I am making it clear that this will not be a hard limit.

If I find the statistics of something to be lacking enough realism to warrant denial, I will ask the nation of said statistics to alter them. At this point they may make a counter request, but this may or may not be accepted.

Rulings on Current Problems

Laka's Serum: I have already labelled this as PMT and given permission for use. There is no sense in trying to use it to discredit Laka as a means to back up one's own argument.

Speed and Timing of Planes: As both Laka and SA's planes are launching and arriving at extreme speeds, I will render any question as to whether the meeting of the two was possible null. The two sides have met and the canon will remain as such.

.50 Caliber SLAP Rounds: Even if the guns are positioned beside the intake, this is not how sabot works. Sabot is not "ejected" from the gun, rather discarded by the shot after it is in flight. This would still cause problems with the plane's intake as the sabot is still being discarded in in front of the intake. I'm not saying it needs to change, but I expect occasional issues or repairs to be required for this design flaw.

Energy and Maneuvers: Planes that have retained their dive energy will be able to escape a plane that has not simply because of the need to regain lost speed, which will take some amount of time. Not to mention the need to reorient the plane in the direction needed to pursuit such aircraft, which again takes time. The more time spent, the further the target gets.

Speed and Maneuverability: A plane travelling Mach 3 will have reduced maneuverability, regardless of design. Turns become wider with speed, and increased stress is put on the aircraft's frame when attempting to change momentum this drastically.

THUS

Ruling on Laka's Planes: These planes were able to arrive on time and engage their targets.

Ruling on SA's Planes: These planes are going to suffer occasional engine damage from the flaw of their weapon arrangement, but it won't make the planes completely unusable. The planes would be able to catch up to the fleeing Osovian aircraft with time, but not immediately. Maintaining high maneuverability at Mach 3 is unfeasible and is PMT I would only consider with serious drawbacks. SA's planes can keep their Mach 3 speed, but cannot operate efficiently at such extreme speeds.

Closing Statement

I am doing this only to keep the game balanced and unconvoluted. It can't be a full on free-for-all, but at the same time I am not going to control everyone. Please keep it civil. If there are any questions or concerns about anything please let me know. I am trying to moderate this as best I can.

- East Osovia

Well moderated EO

[Laka Strolistandiler]

The way serum works (because SA’ request for explanation is actually pretty based and reasonable): it increases the rate at which blood is pumped to the brain and the eyes, essentially partially negating the dangers of the G-LOC. However on the other hand it, during prolonged use results in tachycardia developing and can even end up causing heart attack or a stroke. It’s also pretty addictive, thus requiring that the pilots which receive it have to be grounded for a period of two weeks and be subjected to medical treatment from the condition.

[Countesia]

What would the ruling be on liquid immersion to counter G-forces?

It would involve a specially sealed cockpit in which a pilot is fully submersed in an oxygen rich perfluorocarbon which will allow individuals to tolerate short bursts of up to a 15 to 25 g's . This is some PMT fuckery but liquid breathing does exist at an animal trial phase, and the science behind it is that is that the because the effects of gravity are spread evenly across the fluid instead of being concentrated in the body, the heart will still be able to pump blood to the brain. Long term exposure to such forces will eventually start to cause physical damage, but the ESA have been studying it and its also a plot point in Tiamat's Wrath if you're into The Expanse.

[Polish Prussian Commonwealth]

hey EO mind if I retcon in an Su-25 detachment

[South Americanastan]

Alright, more moderator time:

RP Moderation

Tech and Specs

There's been some heated back and forth about technology, specs, and mathematics recently, enough so that I believe it to be detracting from the RP. As such I will make an official ruling on situations like this.

Complaints about a nation's tech or specs is allowed, but sustained argument between the accuser and the accused is not. Both sides can present their statements, but I will independently research the topic in question and make an official ruling on it to the best of my ability. This both removes the potential for bias and keeps the OOC thread clear of incessant bickering.

Furthermore, while such things in question may be countered by mathematics, I will be applying the rule of "close enough" to a majority of these cases. Unless the stats or math is seriously outside the realm of modern tech I will most likely allow it. The reason for this is to prevent an extremely high barrier for entry. We cannot and will not expect everyone who wants to participate to have a PhD in Applied Physics. Thus, while such mathematics can be brought up in one's statement for or against a particular subject, I am making it clear that this will not be a hard limit.

If I find the statistics of something to be lacking enough realism to warrant denial, I will ask the nation of said statistics to alter them. At this point they may make a counter request, but this may or may not be accepted.

Rulings on Current Problems

Laka's Serum: I have already labelled this as PMT and given permission for use. There is no sense in trying to use it to discredit Laka as a means to back up one's own argument.

Speed and Timing of Planes: As both Laka and SA's planes are launching and arriving at extreme speeds, I will render any question as to whether the meeting of the two was possible null. The two sides have met and the canon will remain as such.

.50 Caliber SLAP Rounds: Even if the guns are positioned beside the intake, this is not how sabot works. Sabot is not "ejected" from the gun, rather discarded by the shot after it is in flight. This would still cause problems with the plane's intake as the sabot is still being discarded in in front of the intake. I'm not saying it needs to change, but I expect occasional issues or repairs to be required for this design flaw.

Energy and Maneuvers: Planes that have retained their dive energy will be able to escape a plane that has not simply because of the need to regain lost speed, which will take some amount of time. Not to mention the need to reorient the plane in the direction needed to pursuit such aircraft, which again takes time. The more time spent, the further the target gets.

Speed and Maneuverability: A plane travelling Mach 3 will have reduced maneuverability, regardless of design. Turns become wider with speed, and increased stress is put on the aircraft's frame when attempting to change momentum this drastically.

THUS

Ruling on Laka's Planes: These planes were able to arrive on time and engage their targets.

Ruling on SA's Planes: These planes are going to suffer occasional engine damage from the flaw of their weapon arrangement, but it won't make the planes completely unusable. The planes would be able to catch up to the fleeing Osovian aircraft with time, but not immediately. Maintaining high maneuverability at Mach 3 is unfeasible and is PMT I would only consider with serious drawbacks. SA's planes can keep their Mach 3 speed, but cannot operate efficiently at such extreme speeds.

Closing Statement

I am doing this only to keep the game balanced and unconvoluted. It can't be a full on free-for-all, but at the same time I am not going to control everyone. Please keep it civil. If there are any questions or concerns about anything please let me know. I am trying to moderate this as best I can.

- East Osovia

Really? Did you do any research on Laka’s serum at all. I’ve asked around a little bit with people who have knowledge of this stuff (An RPer who is somewhat well aversed in all styles of combat, specifically ground warfare, who asked me not to mention him by name and another RPer, who is very well aversed in air warfare, who also asked to have his name withheld about the topic.) RPer 1 said it was not physically possible, and RPer 2 said it was not possible “Unless it turned your blood solid”. Those are just the first two people I’ve asked about this, and I know a couple more that could chime in on the topic. It’s quite clearly not just FT, but very possibly FanT

[East Osovia]

The way serum works (because SA’ request for explanation is actually pretty based and reasonable): it increases the rate at which blood is pumped to the brain and the eyes, essentially partially negating the dangers of the G-LOC. However on the other hand it, during prolonged use results in tachycardia developing and can even end up causing heart attack or a stroke. It’s also pretty addictive, thus requiring that the pilots which receive it have to be grounded for a period of two weeks and be subjected to medical treatment from the condition.

I would assume, though, that it would make the effects of negative G's more pronounced and dangerous if that is the case. Plus it wouldn't make them immune if they go too far with their G's, as eventually the force exerted would counteract the artificial increase in blood flow.

What would the ruling be on liquid immersion to counter G-forces?

It would involve a specially sealed cockpit in which a pilot is fully submersed in an oxygen rich perfluorocarbon which will allow individuals to tolerate short bursts of up to a 15 to 25 g's . This is some PMT fuckery but liquid breathing does exist at an animal trial phase, and the science behind it is that is that the because the effects of gravity are spread evenly across the fluid instead of being concentrated in the body, the heart will still be able to pump blood to the brain. Long term exposure to such forces will eventually start to cause physical damage, but the ESA have been studying it and its also a plot point in Tiamat's Wrath if you're into The Expanse.

I'd say the method is technically not too PMT, but the engineering required to get a decent aircraft with such a configuration would be considered PMT.

hey EO mind if I retcon in an Su-25 detachment

Sure thing.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

…and its also a plot point in Tiamat's Wrath if you're into The Expanse.

Expanse be based, brutha
TBH I would prefer to genetically and cubernetically modify the pilot and just call it a day

[South Americanastan]

The way serum works (because SA’ request for explanation is actually pretty based and reasonable): it increases the rate at which blood is pumped to the brain and the eyes, essentially partially negating the dangers of the G-LOC. However on the other hand it, during prolonged use results in tachycardia developing and can even end up causing heart attack or a stroke. It’s also pretty addictive, thus requiring that the pilots which receive it have to be grounded for a period of two weeks and be subjected to medical treatment from the condition.

Heart Rate doesn’t affect G-Force overload. You should know this. Blackouts caused by G-Force is caused by the blood in your body being pulled down towards your legs. This is not affected by heart rate, it can only be affected by predetermined genetic properties, such as a larger or more powerful heart, or a person’s ability to operate on less oxygen then others. Any heart rate that would be enough to counteract those G-Forces would explode your heart or arteries due to the sheer speed at which the heart is pumping out blood and the resulting blood pressure. This is coming from RPer 2, who also is well-aversed in biology.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

I would assume, though, that it would make the effects of negative G's more pronounced and dangerous if that is the case. Plus it wouldn't make them immune if they go too far with their G's, as eventually the force exerted would counteract the artificial increase in blood flow.

If this shit would’ve made them immune that would be absurd even by my merits
Also did you notice that none of them performed a negative G maneuver? That’s because such serum not simply decreases tolerance to negative G- it can actually cause the effects of it to be visible even at 1G.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Heart Rate doesn’t affect G-Force overload. You should know this. Blackouts caused by G-Force is caused by the blood in your body being pulled down towards your legs. This is not affected by heart rate, it can only be affected by predetermined genetic properties, such as a larger or more powerful heart, or a person’s ability to operate on less oxygen then others.

I haven’t said a word about serum just causing tachycardia, comrade. It also increases the oxygenation of the blood, increases blood pressure (hence my above statement about it being deadly at G -4, and does a lot of other things to human blood system that I don’t know how to translate (neither does Google)

[East Osovia]

Really? Did you do any research on Laka’s serum at all. I’ve asked around a little bit with people who have knowledge of this stuff (An RPer who is somewhat well aversed in all styles of combat, specifically ground warfare, who asked me not to mention him by name and another RPer, who is very well aversed in air warfare, who also asked to have his name withheld about the topic.) RPer 1 said it was not physically possible, and RPer 2 said it was not possible “Unless it turned your blood solid”. Those are just the first two people I’ve asked about this, and I know a couple more that could chime in on the topic. It’s quite clearly not just FT, but very possibly FanT

It's PMT. The line between PMT and FT is, as defined by the NationStates forum, FTL travel. I've taken a lot of things into consideration before I gave it the clear, including harmful side effects and the limits of its usefulness. As I said in my post, I'm not going to be doing ultra-hard realism because it would create a stupidly high barrier for entry.

Remember that I have also been lenient with you, allowing for a compromise to your outdated countermeasure tech and not having all your planes engines blow out because of their design flaws. I have also not reprimanded you for taking little to no damage from the sheer volume of munitions I fired at your fleet, so I suggest you attempt to understand that I have been more than lax with you up to this point.

Do not continue to push this issue.