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Greater Díenstad Regional Council [GD only; IC]

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]

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Nova Orontes
Secretary
 
Posts: 26
Founded: Jan 05, 2021
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Nova Orontes » Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:11 pm

Serena added the new proposal to the discussion dockett. Standing, she said to the assembly, "The proposal for the 'Scandinvan Act: Ban on Extraregional Slaver Trade Inside Greater Díenstad' has been added to the discussion dockett. I remind all assembly members that the proposal requires five backers in addition to the proposal author. Furthermore, the proposal may be altered through discussion until it goes to vote."

She sat back down afterward. It was her first day on the job and she was doing well enough...although to her one day seemed no different than the next. That her predecessor had been incinerated for impure thoughts she did not know. One doubted whether she'd understand such a thing, regardless.

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Tupioca
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 22
Founded: Dec 20, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tupioca » Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:14 pm

Lord Amil stood up and spoke upon the newly proposed legislation.

"I will support this legislation from the Golden Throne. I do however have queries about the fact that slavery is still conducted with in this region. It is a disgusting and inhumane act to enslave another person let alone make profit off of their sale. I suggest that this ban be turned into a complete document that outlaws slavery all together in Greater Dienstad. That way there are no questions or issues when it comes to military intervention."

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CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11362
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:08 am

Aerkunlauh got to his feet following the Tupiocan representative to ask a question, one he already knew the answer to but that one that needed to be asked.
"Ambassador...you really are asking something impossible of me, aren't you? Just one question, before the Havenic vote against is officially placed, because I honestly find it hard to believe you would seriously consider this legislation in the knowledge that it would never be accepted.
Are you seriously suggesting that the Haven restricts who its independent traders do business with? Ambassador, if a businessman wished to do business with the devil himself they would find themselves entirely free of harassment from Havenic authorities, the same is true if they wished to do business with those you have decided to blacklist. Against."
GVH has a puppet. He uses it to post in regions and on the forums. The identity of this puppet will forever remain a mystery.

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Holy Marsh
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5360
Founded: Nov 09, 2007
Father Knows Best State

Postby Holy Marsh » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:00 am

The Marshite representative had intended to positively respond to the proposal. Then she saw it in writing and she quickly transcended the emotion of anger.

"In respect to Dienstadi slave states past, present, and future, we should do far more than antagonize them, Mr. Kilomen. Far more. But as to the substantive nature of your proposal, the Theocracy would of course agree to any legislation that is anti-slavery in nature," she started evenly before removing her eyeglasses, her hands shaking with barely coherent rage as she placed them down. The only reason she wasn't a foaming, raging madwoman at the moral indecency on display was her years of experience, and even that couldn't stop her words from coming quick, clipped, and seething.
"But the proposal I just heard is one we would never sign.

'RESPECTING, within the context of this individual legislation, the sovereign right of Greater Díenstadi states to practice in the slave trade — though not to harm the region with the externalized costs of extra-regional imports and pick-ups.'

We will never sign a document that aligns the phrase 'respecting the sovereign right of states to practice the slave trade' with anything else, regardless of intent. We will never sign a document that aligns the phrase 'grants a state the right to export slaves', as it is here:

'GRANTING Greater Díenstadi states the right to export slaves as long as those ships sail unprotected within Greater Díenstadi waters (not in the form of death convoys) and are registered to a Greater Díenstadi government. Accepting that this clause holds no jurisdiction over independent intra-regional unilateral, bilateral, or multilateral anti-slave trade political, economic, and military actions.'

While I am not blind and can see that both of these exist with qualifications and have no doubt that the legal framework of our shoot-and-kill on sight of recognized slaver vessels would be respected under it, it would be a moral crime of the highest order to affix our signature to any document bearing the previously discussed issues. Slaver states don't have any respected rights because they are not sovereign states and the only rights they are to be granted is the right to rot in the rope after hanging. While we quite well understand the intent, we cannot sign until such language is removed," she said as she took some deep breaths and put her glasses back on. Her sadness was immeasurable and her day was ruined.
Holy Marsh is ranked 1st in Nova (Greysteel) and 571st (477th) in the world for Largest Defense Forces.
Holy Marsh is ranked 2,723rd in the world and 1st in Greater Dienstad for Most Inclusive.
The Shift: An Update on Holy Marsh
"...an exercise in sadomasochistic futility," - Engaging in warfare against the Union

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Ikheria
Envoy
 
Posts: 347
Founded: Sep 28, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ikheria » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:42 am

Klaus than stood up and spoke about Ikheria position on this proposal.
"We officially not support, nor against. It because disagreement on this proposal whom now being discussed in General Representative Council. Many MP are now and later debating on wording of that proposal. In nutshell, they going filibustering Ikheria vote on this matter."
Federal Democratic Republic of Ikheria
A nation in Poland, Belarus, and Kaliningrad from result of mass emigration from Nusantara/Indonesia. Capital is Yeltsingrad/Warsaw.
Member of CSTO, CIS, EEU (since its founding), as well European Union (since 2000).
Member of GD, formerly Europeia
| OOC: a 14-year old Indonesian teenager
Remember, Ikherian Language is Indonesian, but writed in Cyrillic script!
Ikheria Federal News Agency: INTTC listed in GDSE.|Ikheria Federal Coast Guard began patrolling Ikherian EEZ.

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The Macabees
Senior N&I RP Mentor
 
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Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Macabees » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:27 pm

Andro rose once the other representatives had finished their piece, and after allowing the assembly attendants to distribute an updated version of the proposal. There were a number of different points made and he wanted to address some of the various remarks made around the room.

First, he addressed Aerkunlauh. "Mr. Aerkunlauh, your question is disingenuous. Does your country have no regulations at all? No public police forces? No public military forces? No public involvement in the private sector at all? Is your government completely useless and virtually non-existence? For if you answer otherwise, then your government actively involvements itself in the limitation of what your private business people can do. And that brings me to another question: do you ban the selling and buying of slaves in your country?"

Then, turning to the Marshite representative, he said, "Mr. Rai, the wording of the proposal has been changed, as you will see in the new version being distributed. The general reasoning is that although I personally find it advantageous to ban the slave trade overall, I believe that that should be accomplished over a series of legislations. This is not only advantageous, in my opinion, as it concerns the pace of change and the amount of thought we put into it. But also guards against the future possibility of a change of moral opinion in favor of slavery, and would therefore make a full-scale reversal of anti-slavery legislation more difficult by forcing it to repeal a series of individual bills. Anyway, this one specifically seeks to focus on extra-regional slaver states and I wanted to make its limitations explicit in the word. Thus, in the clause beginning with 'respecting' there is the qualifier 'within the context of this individual legislation.' I have changed the word 'respecting' to 'commentless,' to note that it's not a matter of respect or recognition, just a matter of the bill's jurisdiction. Likewise, with respect to your second concern, I changed the language of that clause slightly to better represent our true intention."

Finally, to the Ikherian representative he posed the question, "Mr. Ruttinger, what is the nature of the disagreement, if I may ask? The proposal can be made more radical still. I originally sought to make the proposal as inclusive as possible to cater to Greater Díenstadi states like Potthan, Vakkolici, and Regime Ralkovia, but I am more interested in catering to a moral state like yours than I am to them."


PROPOSAL FOR THE SCANDIVAN ACT: BAN ON EXTRAREGIONAL SLAVER STATE TRADE INSIDE GREATER DÍENSTAD

UNDERSTANDING that the Greater Díenstad Regional Council (GDRC) is voluntary by nature and that so are the bills it passed, and therefore any responsibility to enforce this legislation is voluntary in nature.

REMEMBERING the recent incursions of foreign slaver states in Greater Díenstad, including the docking of Kravenite death ships in United World Order and the Scandinvan slave trade with the now-defunct autonomous pirate states of Palenque and Theohuanacu, and considering that ports favorable to the slave trade continue to exist in our region. Furthermore, acknowledging that the slave trade continues to have a global dimension and that the threat to Greater Díenstad is perpetual.

CONSIDERING that all slaver state commercial and military ships must be stopped, boarded, and searched to verify their innocence, and noting the expense of said operations.

COMMENTLESS, within the context of this individual legislation, on the sovereign right of Greater Díenstadi states to practice in the slave trade — though not to harm the region with the externalized costs of extra-regional imports and pick-ups.

SEEKING to narrow the scope of the slave trade within Greater Díenstad by reducing the number of eligible participants to states residing in the region.

WITHOUT JUDGING the ability of Greater Díenstadi states to export slaves as long as those ships sail unprotected within Greater Díenstadi waters (not in the form of death convoys) and are registered to a Greater Díenstadi government. Accepting that this clause holds no jurisdiction over independent intra-regional unilateral, bilateral, or multilateral anti-slave trade political, economic, and military actions.

WE PROPOSE banning extra-regional slaver states from all Greater Díenstadi trade. This includes the importation of extra-regional slaves and the export of slaves unless eligible under the terms of this bill. No extra-regional slaver state ship, commercial or military, is allowed within Greater Díenstadi waters. The GDRC condones and recognizes the right of any Greater Díenstadi state to stop or attack ships belonging to extra-regional slaver states, including a voluntary force of GDRC members organized through the GDRC assembly.


V1 to V2:

  • Changed "respecting" to "commentless."
  • Changed "granting" to "without judging."
Last edited by The Macabees on Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11362
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:44 pm

Aerkunlauh

Velsturmen were among the most tolerant people in the world when it came to communications. You could insult them, call their mother a whore, verbally attack their lands or their flag and receive no reaction. The slightest issue in naming however and they would feel forced to explain the mistake to you: for to disregard a name was to insult his very being.
"First of all," Aerkunlauh began, "I am not Mr. Aerkunlauh. I do not have a second name, my name is Aerkunlauh nos Variskura. Variskura was the name of my father, and the line I claim goes back over 800 years. Therefore to call me Mr. Aerkunlauh is incorrect; the two correct ways of addressing me are Aerkunlauh, which is my name, or Prince Aerkunlauh, being my name and title.
Next, as for the issues that you raise. The Havenic government that being the government that represents the entire Greater Vakolicci Haven, exists entirely to protect, defend and advance the interests of the three provinces of the Haven. We do not concern ourselves with the internal governance of these provinces: they pay towards our military forces as well as a number of other programs which we maintain. We do not however regulate the internal markets within these provinces, which are effectively independent states. I am not Vakolicci, I am from Velstrania, and so the only answers I can give you on the Vakolicci internal government are those that are publically available. The Vakolicci Haven is not a slave state, neither are any of the other nations that make up the Greater Vakolicci Haven. They do not however prevent their businesses from trading with slaver states concerning the buying and selling of other goods. Say, for example a company sells artisanal chocolate. If, as improbable as this might be, an order for coconut cremes came in from the Kraven Reich, the Haven would not have anything to say about the export of chocolate. Would this proposal?"
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The Macabees
Senior N&I RP Mentor
 
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Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Macabees » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:50 pm

Andro, standing again, nodded and replied, "Mr. Aerkunlauh, this proposal would of course not require you to do anything. No bill passed by this assembly can require you to do anything. And the choice of tracking, stopping, and/or sinking the ships of extra-regional slaver states in the region would be voluntary, so you would not have to participate in it. Truth be told, here is what I think. Based on those who have spoken so far, it seems there are many in this assembly ready to ban the slave trade in its entirety from this region. That would be going far beyond the scope of my proposal, of course. However, if the opposition to my proposal is intransigent and there's no hope for near-to-good-as-consensus behind on a middle ground, then the terms of the proposal are bound to get worse because there's no one worth negotiating a more moderate path with."

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Stevid
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 487
Founded: Antiquity
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Stevid » Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:13 am

Sir Vel Fadius Grealius, (or Vel as he usually insisted on) stood to say his piece once recognised by the chair. He was seldom seen talking in the Council chambers, even more so sober. Yet here he was, standing, talking, compos mentis, though with a splitting headache.

“My Lords, Ladies, Gentlemen, et cetera, et cetera,” He started almost too nonchalantly. “I pray to allow me time to voice misgivings in regard to this proposal – though I do so only as so commanded by my Imperial Majesty’s government. My learned friend Andro Kilomen has expressed himself with all the finesse and articulation I have come to expect from diplomats of the Golden Throne. The proposition has weight and great moral conviction – a conviction shared by many and shunned by a minority. This shared idealism, the idea that a human being is not some commodity to be bartered with, is one that is, of course, shared by the Holy Empire – a state that has forever banned the trading of human lives. Stevid has a modern track record of policing the illicit sale of human beings, modern slave trades and human tracking. The Royal Navy patrols the waters of the region and beyond, while our crime agencies work inside our borders to combat it from within. Therefore, it would normally be prudent for my country to vote FOR such legislation… alas…”

Sir Vel grasped for a glass of water. He hated these speeches, and how formal he had to be. All he wanted right now was a real drink – something stiff and smelling of petrol, there’ll be something in his cabinet or that dreaded Red Cave bar.

“Alas my government cannot fully support this proposal, though it does support the moral reasoning behind it. The proposal lacks teeth and any true regulation. It is more a statement against, or outcry of rage at, the practice of slavery. Likeminded nations against the trade already fight against it; a message of solidarity that does not even explicitly condemn the practice does little to nothing to advance the idea that slavery is inherently abominable.

“Furthermore,”
Vel said replacing the glass, “The legislation is open abuse as it does not truly prevent nefarious states circumventing the proposal to indeed continue extra-regional trading of slaves. I do not know if this esteemed Council will permit me to engage in hypothetical… but I’m going to anyway… There is nothing in the world to prevent a nation-state beyond the realms of Greater Dienstad to set up a trading post or colony within the region that, for all intents and purposes, acts as if that nation is present within our regional borders. Stevid operates a similar system of colonial governance in many of its extra-regional holdings – in that those lands are considered ‘Stevid Proper’. Thus, if a slaver state were to set up a trade post or exclave and for the slave trade to take place there, then the trading of slaves would be internal within Greater Dienstad. Movement of trade out of the exclave would be deemed domestic, or internal, and not covered by this proposal.
“Furthermore, the terminology “[banning] importation of extra-regional slaves and the export of slaves unless eligible under the terms of this bill” is vague enough to allow the aforementioned hypothetical scenario.

“So, in conclusion, the Holy Empire believes that the proposal does not ‘narrow the scope of the slave trade’ within our region, but merely shifts the goal posts. This Empire would rather there be legislation that curtails extra-regional slave trade wholesale and all the forms it takes. Else this fledging institution just becomes another ‘League of Nations’.

“My esteemed friend of Holy Marsh is correct in that the signing of the proposal, albeit in its previous form, would have been a moral crime. But the Empire will not sign this proposal in its current state, as empty political posturing will not stop determined slavers anymore more readily than Imperial destroyers have done to date. The Holy Empire of Stevid will only support this proposal if amendments are made that can guarantee an outright prevention of extra-regional trade of slaves without the loopholes. Otherwise, it has to solely be a statement of condemnation of the practice by the majority of members, with all reference to the actual ‘banning’ of elements of the practice removed.”


Sir Vel sat his overweight self down with a sigh. The spectacle and arrogance of it all annoyed him – such was how Stevid conducted open air international diplomacy. Diplomacy was just the niche of his trade; brokering deals, hashing out compromise, negotiating over tiny details long into the night with shit food, cigars, booze, and sometimes drugs; away from the ceremony, pomp and circumstance of visual politics. Real negotiations by real men, real women. That’s what he was good at. Accepting a ‘promotion’ to be the Imperial representative to the GDRC was probably the worst decision he had ever made in his career.

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Mokastana
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Posts: 1403
Founded: Feb 20, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mokastana » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:33 am

When given the chance to speak, Alfonso Rivera, representative of The People's Unified Federation, spoke with a calm demeanor:

"I think we are forgetting one important detail here. As per Regional Council's own rules upon founding, point six clearly states: "All legislation is non-binding and represent treaties that can only be voluntarily joined."

Therefore, I would propose those nations who despise the slave trade, should work together to create a treaty in which we all agree not only that slavery is an evil to be abolished, but agree on how that enforcement is handled. From the sharing of intelligence, to cooperation plans, to acceptable hostile acts.

Knowing the nation's of Greater Dienstad, torture and kill on site would easily be accepted, but perhaps a limit on collateral damage, and funds put aside to cover the families of innocent lives lost in the fight against slavers.

As for Kríerlord Kilomen's concern of morality changing in the region, as long as there are more than one nations signed to a treaty, I believe that treaty stands. If our descendants wish to challenge our moral decisions, they'll write their own treaties. Pen strokes only have power if the words they write are enforced. And I don't plan on living in a region that enforces a pro slavery agenda."
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The Macabees
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Anarchy

Postby The Macabees » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:40 am

Andro was somewhat perplexed at the Stevidian representative's reservations. Not because there wasn't truth to them, but because the representative seemed to want nothing if he couldn't get perfection. The Macabéan stood to quickly reply and see if he could sway the Stevidian. "Mr. Grealius, I think we all have to remember the nature of this assembly and its rules, which are explicit. All proposals are voluntary. Thus, this assembly is not capable of legislating the type of proposal you have in mind. What we can do is avoid the risk of this assembly being co-opted by evil forces by passing anti-slavery legislation which does fit the nature of the assembly. Furthermore, by using this assembly to condone anti-slaver behavior, we avoid it being used to criticize aggression on slaver states by non-slaver states. And, of course, I am partisan to future bills banning other forms of slavery elsewhere. I have already expressed my opinion on why gradual legislation is preferable to omnibus legislation, as a change in the zeitgeist could make use of omnibus as much as we can now. Best then to make it difficult to turn individual pieces of legislation back."

"Neither do I think it's favorable to remove the terminology of 'banning,'" he added. "It does not make sense to me to make the language less forceful, the opinions of the majority less unambiguous, just because of the nature of this assembly. Doing so seems a misguided attempt at a level of purity that is more likely to hurt our cause than help."

"Addressing your other good point," he continued, "we could pass legislation to ban extra-regional slaver states from trading in outposts belonging to members of this region but outside the geographical jurisdiction of Greater Díenstad. Additional legislation. Why burden this one with the much more complicated ask of regulating behavior outside the geographical jurisdiction of Greater Díenstad? That is something better left for another time and another proposal."
Last edited by The Macabees on Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Macabees
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Anarchy

Postby The Macabees » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:44 am

To the Mokan, Andro said, "If the assembly prefers an omnibus anti-slavery bill with dozens of details that we are likely to argue over, I will pass the responsibility on to another member of this assembly."

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CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11362
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:46 pm

Aerkunlauh

"I think I have a compremise that might prove acceptable to the council," the Velsturman Prince spoke up. "We are all agreed on wanting to ban slavery, and you have mine and the Havenic governments full support on that. I suspect, for what it's worth, you have the support of all 3 provincial governments on that. This assembly could pass an anti-slavery measure very quickly if that is what it wished to do: where I have a problem however is with the blanket ban on extra-regional state ships entering Díenstadi waters. The Haven does not trade in slaves, and we don't plan on doing so any time soon. We do however trade in many other goods that are most definitely not slaves. Additionally, we are a Haven in the most literal sense: if a ship wishes to dock at a Havenic port and those on board it want to make a new life for themselves in the Haven, they would be allowed to. Indeed, any state should it wish, is perfectly entitled to take advantage of our prisoner resettlement programme and allow us to deal with their unwanted citizens in a fair and humane fashion. If we have signed off a transport of deportees from a particular state, those deportees automatically become Havenic citizens with all of the rights that that involves. If therefore you sink a ship filled with Havenic citizens because they happen to be travelling from a state which trades in slaves, you will gain a military response that is proportionate to the crime you have committed. Nobody wants that.

What I am proposing therefore is the absolute prohibition of the slave trade within Greater Díenstad, but allowing trade in other goods or the transport of free people from slaver states. I feel this is a perfectly reasonable compremise that should cause very few issues."
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The Macabees
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Postby The Macabees » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:53 pm

"As already mentioned," said Andro to the Vakolicci representative, "slave traders don't play by rules. They don't put their slaves on ships with 'this ship holds slaves' scrawled in writing. As a country that conducts its own anti-slaver patrols in Greater Díenstad, because of reality, we have to monitor and regulate all ships belonging to slave trading countries. Thus the blanket ban. If it was easy to separate the two, the blanket ban would not have been originally proposed. Your so-called compromise just guts the substance from the proposal. I would rather blanket ban the slave trade and all slave traders in an omnibus bill."
Last edited by The Macabees on Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:59 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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The Macabees
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Postby The Macabees » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:11 pm

Less the anti-slavery crusade lose steam amidst what Andro thought were undeserving nitpicks and energy better put into follow-up proposals, and given the risk of an even worse solution like the one recommended by the Vakolicci representative, he sucked up his ego after that last comment to the Mokan representative and quietly submitted a separate and independent piece of legislation for discussion.

PROPOSAL FOR THE RALKOVIA ACT: BAN ON SLAVER STATE TRADE INSIDE GREATER DÍENSTAD

UNDERSTANDING that the Greater Díenstad Regional Council (GDRC) is voluntary by nature and that so are the bills it passes, and therefore any responsibility to enforce this legislation is voluntary in nature.

ACKNOWLEDGING beyond doubt the immorality and evil of the human slave trade.

CONDONING the selfless actions of many the Greater Díenstadi nations which already contribute individual resources towards the patrolling of regional waters and the suppression of the slave trade.

GRANTING slave traders no rights and no quarter, and giving them neither the recourse to using the GDRC as a venue to hamper anti-slavery efforts in Greater Díenstad nor the opportunity to hide their vile acts behind a veneer of non-slave trade commerce.

SEEKING to eliminate the practice of human slavery altogether.

WE PROPOSE a complete, unequivocal, and unconditional ban on the slave trade within Greater Díenstad. Furthermore, this legislation puts into effect:

  • The Greater Díenstadi Freedom Organization (GDFO*), a voluntary organization to facilitate the sharing and cooperation of intelligence, logistics, and military assets in the crusade against slavery in Greater Díenstad.
  • Condonation of all anti-slavery actions, including: the monitoring, stopping, and searching of all slaver state ships; blockading slaver state ports, shores, and borders; direct military action against slaver states.
Last edited by The Macabees on Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:15 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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The Qoryx
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 41
Founded: Apr 20, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Qoryx » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:33 pm

Hochgeboren, Herr Hroderich zu Wernher // His Grace, Sir Hroderich of Wernher
Hochrangiger Diplomat des Großer Dienstad Regionalrates // Senior Diplomat to the Greater Dienstad Regional Council


Hearing the others speak, Herr Hroderich zu Wernher was good at keeping his mouth shut and engaging in the diplomatic art of listening. He had not spoken once during any of the proceedings, and he had hoped not to for a long while either, but the way this legislation, legislation he knew his government would uphold yet still abstain from anyway regardless of their views, was being derailed by religious fanatics and extremist fearmongering, he could not abide by.

Hroderich waited patiently for the chair to recognise him after the Macabean, and then stood up for the first time since the council was convened. In the ears of every representative of the council was a translator, as very few Arvolken displomats would willingly speak a foreign tongue or even common Dienstadi in diplomatic situations of any kind.

“Esteemed delegates, I think we are losing the point of the original legislation and the honourable intention by the Macabean delegate. Some try to derail it with hyperbole and rhetoric that is irrelevant to this legislation, yet relevant to the general issue that is yet be addressed. This should not continue.” He paused to allow the translator to catch up, before continuing.

“It may be abhorrent to engage in, support, or even allow slavery in this region to persist. We must see what this legislation is attempting to address, and not just what you personally want it to address. As the Macabean delegate just said, nations who engage in slave trading do not play by the rules we set out nationally, so we must all agree as a region on how to enforce the slave trading that happens in our region in order to combat it.” He paused again for the translator to catch up. While waiting, he thought to himself about how he didn’t personally care whether Ausland nations engaged in slave trading, he just knew his country wouldn’t, and was speaking more out of his nation’s intentions rather than on behalf of these Ausland nations around him.

“This legislation attempts to tackle extra-regional nations engaging in the slave trade in our region by putting a blanket ban on all of their trading within our region to restrict this. If the Stevidian delegate took a sober look at this legislation and not at the bottom of his flask, he might see that without engaging in hyperbole or hypotheticals, this legislation does already begin to tackle the slave trade within our region. He would also see the benefit of having multiple legislations presented that cover things he agrees with, and choose to pass those legislation to keep this council's agenda moving, rather than bottlenecking it with ridiculous concerns about loopholes in these voluntary legislation, and not deciding to just propose his own legislation to tackle those loopholes.”

Hroderich scoffed at the Stevidian delegate. What an annoying man, he thought. He realised he had been thinking for a few moments after the translator had finished, so he continued.

“The Arvolken people do not deal with hypotheticals, there is no logic in speculation and hyperbole, but there is in dealing with fact. One fact, as I just mentioned, is that you can easily create legislation that puts to rest your fears of loopholes. However, instead I call upon this council to just get on with it by pushing this first act for a vote as it stands, so we may discuss further action on this issue, instead of derailing or watering down perfectly acceptable legislation. With that, I stand with my Macabean colleague and vote in favour of this legislation being put towards a vote.”

Hroderich sat down, knowing full well his government would opt to abstain from the vote itself anyway. But he had been there for hours, hearing all of these nations bicker about hypotheticals and spewing Ausland hyperbole, and he was sick of it all.
Last edited by The Qoryx on Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Der Reichseidgenossenschaft (Der RE)/ The Imperial Unity (The RE)
Imperial Foreign Secretary: Reichsgraf Bernhard Ernst zu Bülow Monarch: Reichsfürst Ludwig-Wilhelm VI
Grand Imperial Marshall: Großreichsmarschall T. Sprecher, Ritter zu Bernegg Imperial Chancellor: Reichskanzler Otto, Gefürsteter Graf von Lauenburg
Greater DienstadImperial Cabinet
Demonyms: Singular: Arvolk - Plural: Arvolken - Noun: Arvolk
Thank you to Meriad for allowing me to copy and modify his signature for my use, it's awesome!

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Stevid
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 487
Founded: Antiquity
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Stevid » Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:45 pm

Sir Vel listened to the retort (or was it rebuff?) by Andro. He knew what was coming, the usual “well now see here, none of this is really binding” and “This institute cannot legislate directly on the sovereignty of regional states”, and so on and so forth. Quibbling over semantics was what legislators, lawyers, and deal brokers did. This was politics. But having said that, the GDRC was not a political union, and for it to have any strength at all then it required states of Greater Dienstad to compromise more often than they would like – such was the art of the diplomacy, which, Vel considered, he was good at. But the nuances of interstate diplomacy required a forcefulness that allowed for nations to come to an understanding whilst saving face. He hated it. The GDRC was too polite, and sometimes too docile; particularly regarding this slavery bill, and Vel knew why. This wasn’t about national waters, stock exchanges or who knows what else – this was about slavery. Real human beings. And while Vel was not particularly concerned with the ceremony of trying to persuade political opponents with colourful language, he of course aligned with the idea that the practice of slavery had to be attacked. For that, the legislation needed some teeth. It needed to antagonise. It needed to threaten. It needed to, at the very least, be taken seriously.
The Empire felt it would not be taken so, and Vel agreed – though he would have put it in a much more “matter of fact” way. Sadly, his betters had forbid him from speaking bluntly – solely to save face – for Empire could not be seen to be sounding like peasants.

The arrogance of it all. Vel nodded and shook his head during Andro’s speech as he should, and then chuckled loudly as Andro addressed the Vakolicci man as he said, “I would rather blanket ban the slave trade and all slave traders in an omnibus bill." Vel rapped his knuckles with a deliberate and almost sardonic slowness, and with a hearty reply.

“Then we have an accord, good Sir!”

The Chair shot him an accusing look and they hit the gavel loudly. Sir Vel snorted and rolled his eyes at the convention. He pressed a button to add his name to the cue of representatives to speak next and almost rose to speak that moment, only for Andro to produce a separate bill far more cutting and forceful than the other. In truth, it mattered little to Vel and all the man from the Golden Throne wanted was compromise – and that he would get. However, Vel would have to wait longer as the Arvolk man Herr Hroderich zu Wernher was next to say his piece. This reserved man clearly did not like Vel, or if did not care one way or the other then he lacked all the finesse, character, and good manners of a diplomat, so Vel liked him. Fed up with the Chair’s silent lecturing towards him, and the lack of interjection at Herr Hroderich jibes aimed at him, Vel heckled when appropriate.

”If the Stevidian delegate took a sober look at this legislation and not at the bottom of his flask,”

“He speaks! We were all thinking you had no tongue! Well joke’s on you, Hroderich, they don’t lemme in here with it!”

“The Arvolken people do not deal with hypotheticals, there is no logic in speculation and hyperbole, but there is in dealing with fact. One fact, as I just mentioned, is that you can easily create legislation that puts to rest your fears of loopholes. However, instead I call upon this council to just get on with it…”


”Rushed legislation is nonsense legislation!”

The Chair slammed the gavel and Vel finally held his hands up in an apology. As if to placate Vel, the Chair allowed him to speak next.

“Thank you… My Lords, Ladies…” Vel paused and sighed. “Oh you all know it all already… I humbly take on the words of my learned friend from the Golden Throne, and I will address his concerns with what I have said momentarily. Against my better judgement, I will not stand here and berate His Grace, the esteemed delegate of the Arvolken people. To do so would be in bad taste and poor form… which is why I do it from a sedentary position… and I clearly do sedentary very well!” He said patting his belly to a few smirks.

“To His Grace… One should know better. I was not chastising him with comments of ‘nonsense legislation’ for the sake of it, though I did enjoy it. One of the purposes of this council is to critique proposals – but not introduce wholesale and binding legislation. It may surprise some of you to learn that I am in fact well aware of the sixth founding principle of the GDRC.” There were muted and playful jeers thrown his way with mocking chuckles – and Vel smiled along. “However, that should not mean that this council cannot enact a bill that is more forthright about what it wants to achieve, nor be made a mockery of by those who choose not to abide by it. By and large, I am surrounded by like-minded fellows. And the learned Arvolken gentleman and esteemed representative of The People Unified Federation are quite correct in that slaver states do not play by the rules…”

“… Then do not let them play! Do not give them the opportunity! The Arvolken people may only deal with fact, which comes across as somewhat tedious, but here is a fact that you all should see clear as crystal… and only a hypothetical ‘truly’ reveals it. This council and this bill would be nothing but a joke to slavers – who on one hand can chose to ignore the ruling, as is their right; yet on the other choose to abide by it, using the loophole I have described! They merely have to shrug and say, ‘This is your doing, you enabled this, we’re playing the game – your game!’.

“Better these slaving, despicable excuses for human beings denounce and ignore this council than play along with it, and mock it, with a sort of quasi-adherence and crocodile smiles... as opposed to tears... to what is a well-mannered and excellently presented bill. I know my learned friend Andros of the Golden Throne would rather the first bill over the second. I’m no true diplomat, I make a living hashing out the finer points of deals and legislation. He may think me a perfectionist or inflexible for it, but on the contrary, I’m quite the pragmatist. If he can find a way to include a clause, or amend an existing one that includes the denouncing of extra-regional powers setting up posts here to circumvent the bill, though I acknowledge it is not binding, the Holy Empire will support the first proposal. I do not want this council become a laughingstock to slaver states who mock our bills by feigning adherence!”


He sat but then waved to his Arvolken contemporary and had his translator throw over the following, “I’ve bottle of a Arvolken herb liquor digestif in my cabinet.. forget the name... but damn fine stuff!”

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Cartoonia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cartoonia » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:24 pm

Ambassador Honda again listens intently within the sacred chamber halls of the GDRC. He is a bit shocked at the backlash an anti-slavery bill is creating. Nevertheless, he affirms Cartoonia’s beliefs and policies. He stands up and speaks

“If I may say something. It is the wish of our leaders and politicians back home in Cartoonia that all peoples are free of the chains of slavery. We see it as a vile institution of torture and labor that no one should endure. In the past, we have had our children kidnapped in raids by religious cults who made them slaves to build a tower to the heavens to resurrect their so-called God. It took our military to take it down and free these children I may not speak out often here, but I know what must be done. As much as I respect the sovereignty of all nations, I can not stay silent on this issue. What is on the line with this bill is the issue of human rights, not just human rights, but the rights of all beings in our region. Mr. Kilomen, I do not care if compromises have to be made for a while, I wish not to infringe on sovereignty, but I must urge everyone here in the chamber halls to vote on this bill.

You have the support of Cartoonia in your hands. I wish to only speak for what we believe. We must ensure freedom for everyone no matter the cost. Whether this bill passes or fails is in the rest of your hands. But let me assure you that no matter the outcome, Cartoonia will continue its foreign and military policies against slavery”.

With that, Mr. Honda sits back down.
Supreme Leader Jimmy Kudo
Chancellor Nigel Uno
Attorney General Conan Edogawa
Secretary of Foreign Affairs Raphtalia
Gran-General of the Army Eric Cartman
Gran-Admiral of the Navy Kagura Mikazuchi

The desk of the Democratic Republic of Cartoonia Department of Foreign Affairs.
Capitol: Gallagher
Current Civil State: Prosperous
Current Military Status: At Peace
Cartoonian-Dillydale Stock Exchange…...JWC -10.0%........CIS +1.1%......CEP +2.1%......SSA -6.1%......POC -5.1%......WDC -1.2%......ABC +2.4%......RMC -1.2%......MRE +1.7%......SSC +3.1%......FSC +2.0%......KTC -0.5%......SBC -4.2%......KKF -5.3%

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United World Order
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Founded: Jun 16, 2011
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby United World Order » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:16 pm

When it was available to do so after the Cartoonian representative sat down, Gregor rose from his seat and addressed the chamber on Ordena's decision regarding the current proposal.

"On behalf of the Greater Ordenite Reich and furthermore the Reichsfuhrer, I vote to abstain to both proposals should they go to a vote." Gregor said before sitting back down.

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The Macabees
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Anarchy

Postby The Macabees » Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:39 am

Andro had to hand it to his Stevidian counterpart, the man had a gift and Andro had underestimated it. He listened intently as Sir Vel spoke with an eloquence that made even a Macabéan blush. And when the Stevidian sat back down, he rose to reply, "You make an excellent argument, Mr. Graelius, I retorted too soon and you correct me properly. I have sent an updated version of the proposal with your requests, which are not just reasonable, but desirable. In the proposal paragraph, the wording has been updated to 'No extra-regional slaver state ship, commercial or military, is allowed within Greater Díenstadi waters or within extension of regional waters, including out-of-region trade posts and colonies under the jurisdiction of a Greater Díenstadi government.'"

Now that there were two proposals, the second perhaps making the first somewhat redundant, he said to the assembly in general, "I recommend we move forward with both proposals, if both proposals have backing. Even if the second may already in effect speak to the first, the explicitness of the first against anti-regional slaver threats is desirable in my opinion. Besides, it would add an extra layer of legislation that would have to be rolled back, if this assembly were ever faced with that sort of moral disaster."

PROPOSAL FOR THE SCANDIVAN ACT: BAN ON EXTRAREGIONAL SLAVER STATE TRADE INSIDE GREATER DÍENSTAD

UNDERSTANDING that the Greater Díenstad Regional Council (GDRC) is voluntary by nature and that so are the bills it passed, and therefore any responsibility to enforce this legislation is voluntary in nature.

REMEMBERING the recent incursions of foreign slaver states in Greater Díenstad, including the docking of Kravenite death ships in United World Order and the Scandinvan slave trade with the now-defunct autonomous pirate states of Palenque and Theohuanacu, and considering that ports favorable to the slave trade continue to exist in our region. Furthermore, acknowledging that the slave trade continues to have a global dimension and that the threat to Greater Díenstad is perpetual.

CONSIDERING that all slaver state commercial and military ships must be stopped, boarded, and searched to verify their innocence, and noting the expense of said operations.

COMMENTLESS, within the context of this individual legislation, on the sovereign right of Greater Díenstadi states to practice in the slave trade — though not to harm the region with the externalized costs of extra-regional imports and pick-ups.

SEEKING to narrow the scope of the slave trade within Greater Díenstad by reducing the number of eligible participants to states residing in the region.

WITHOUT JUDGING the ability of Greater Díenstadi states to export slaves as long as those ships sail unprotected within Greater Díenstadi waters (not in the form of death convoys) and are registered to a Greater Díenstadi government. Accepting that this clause holds no jurisdiction over independent intra-regional unilateral, bilateral, or multilateral anti-slave trade political, economic, and military actions.

WE PROPOSE banning extra-regional slaver states from all Greater Díenstadi trade. This includes the importation of extra-regional slaves and the export of slaves unless eligible under the terms of this bill. No extra-regional slaver state ship, commercial or military, is allowed within Greater Díenstadi waters or within extension of regional waters, including out-of-region trade posts and colonies under the jurisdiction of a Greater Díenstadi government. The GDRC condones and recognizes the right of any Greater Díenstadi state to stop or attack ships belonging to extra-regional slaver states, including a voluntary force of GDRC members organized through the GDRC assembly.


V2 to V3:

  • Changed "No extra-regional slaver state ship, commercial or military, is allowed within Greater Díenstadi waters." to "No extra-regional slaver state ship, commercial or military, is allowed within Greater Díenstadi waters or within extension of regional waters, including out-of-region trade posts and colonies under the jurisdiction of a Greater Díenstadi government."


V1 to V2:

  • Changed "respecting" to "commentless."
  • Changed "granting" to "without judging."

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Nova Orontes
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Founded: Jan 05, 2021
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Nova Orontes » Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:41 am

Serena updated the linked version of the Scandinvan Act proposal to the latest one. Then, when there was a momentary silence in the assembly hall, she stood and said, "I remind all representatives that the two proposals are independent. Please make explicit which proposal you are giving support to. Thank you all, carry on."
Last edited by Nova Orontes on Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CoraSpia
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Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:42 am

Aerkunlauh

Aerkunlauh read and re-read the proposals before him, highlighting certain points for closer inspection and effectively letting the debate wash around him. At the moment, his heads relationship with his body would be a distant one at least in the eyes of the Havenic press if he supported the first proposal. On the second though...a break arose in conversation and the towering Prince rose again to speak.
"Having examined the proposals thoroughly, I will sadly inform the council that the Haven is still totally unable to support the first. I will not expand on this at length now as the changes that have been made to the proposal text render it impossible for me to give it my support. One does not attempt to regulate how trade is conducted in Velstrania unless one wishes to be laughed at, please take this from somebody who has tried.

Regarding the second proposal, the Haven has only one reservation before our complete support is offered to it. The Haven will never support a blockade on the ports and borders of any state that does not present a direct military threat to itself or its allies and therefore we ask that this be struck from the proposal. As a show of our good will and support for the anti-slavery mission however, and to show that we are not going to sink straight into our old ways, I have been given the authorisation by the Havenic government to offer a site in the Haven as a potential host for the GDFO, should this meet with the approval of the council."
GVH has a puppet. He uses it to post in regions and on the forums. The identity of this puppet will forever remain a mystery.

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Eitoan
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Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Eitoan » Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:13 pm

Upon recognition by the chair, Don Novak spoke briefly.

"We appreciate the input from Prince Aerkunlauh in making the latter proposal more acceptable to a wider consensus of the Regional Council, and urge it's inclusion in the wording. In any event, the Republic of Eitoan will vote in the affirmative for both measures.

I think it wise for members on the fence of support to consider that with the resources of most of the region's powers arrayed against slave based trade, the commercial and practical consequences of such business in Greater Dienstad should be daunting for any concern attempting it here. Given the widespread hostility to it, maritime insurance rates for slave shippers will be prohibitive, as will credit conditions and interest rates for those engaging in it. And for those heedless of the invisible hand of the free market (winks at Andro), there will be heed of the naval power of the anti slaver states.

But passage of these proposals will send a clear message to those still attempting slave or slave based trade in Greater Dienstad."

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The Technocratic Syndicalists
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Technocratic Syndicalists » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:18 pm

As the chair turned to look towards him Oscar Engeström, the Arcaenian representative to the GDRc, briefly scanned down at his notes before beginning to speak in the blunt and precise manner which was considered stereotypical of his people:

"The Arcaenian delegation supports the Scandinvan Act in its current amended form. We have no objections to any of the clauses and will be willing and able to enforce its terms should it be passed."
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OOC: Call me Techno for Short
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Nova Orontes
Secretary
 
Posts: 26
Founded: Jan 05, 2021
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Nova Orontes » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:59 pm

"Serena" updated the tally of supporters for each proposal:

  • Scandinvan Act: Eitoan, Arcaenia, The Qoryx, Tupioca
  • Ralkovia Act: Eitoan

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