Entropic Sunrise - [OOC, Signup, Discussion, FT/FanT, War]

[Qhevak]

FYI, my fleet's arrival is several days after the initial fight - I'm gonna wait until that's done before my guys join up.

And more minor note, the kinetic energy of an impactor at 0.75 c will outweigh the force of any possible warhead other than antimatter by orders of magnitude (11 megatons/kilo vs 0.15 megatons/kilo for pure hydrogen fusion and 45 megatons per kilo for antimatter). If anything, the target would want it to detonate, as that spreads the enormous energy over a larger area. Not sure why they'd have nuclear warheads anyway, you'd need an insanely efficient and powerful antimatter rocket to get to that speed without reactionless thrusters (1 to 2 percent is more realistic for a nuclear torch drive missile, and would still leave warheads relevant).

[The Disorder]

It's not strictly impossible, the fusion warheads would just need to be *almost* as efficient at converting matter to energy as antimatter. Modern thermonuclear fusion warheads...aren't.

I remember reading somewhere that at 86.6% of lightspeed, the kinetic energy exerted on a target is the same as if the projectile was made of pure antimatter. Above 86.6% lightspeed, kinetic-kill projectiles actually become more deadly than if they were composed of pure antimatter.

Also, if it takes 1 second for one of those missiles to reach 75% lightspeed, that's accelerating at almost 23 million G's. That would be a very awesome rocket engine! If I had to take a guess, based on the way that the missiles behave in the RP (which mostly need to be facing their targets to shoot), it might not be a rocket engine doing the acceleration. The launchers are probably mass drivers, which impart most of the velocity.

Then again, pure scientific realism isn't the priority of the RP. Disorder people are communicating with interstellar telepathy, Arustkaana heat sinks are made out of materials that shouldn't exist, my fleet uses reactor technology that relies partially on magic, and faster-than-light travel may or may not violate causality.

More importantly, the missiles are a narrative success. Close battles are more interesting than the trivial annihilation of things, and this battle is a close one because Unthian fleets happen to have some really good missiles that can go head-to-head vs. Disorder shields.

[Unthidor]

To be honest, I think I guesstimated the missiles' speeds a bit too high. That's my fault, but unfortunately we're stuck with it. As for fusion warheads, while Unthidor has first-generation matter/antimatter reactors, they haven't refined the technology down yet to allow antimatter weapons. Hence the size of the ships themselves, cause the reactors are that big. I have a plan to upgrade to newer (and smaller, more practical) ships as my NationStates population stats increase over time, and will update my factbook accordingly. The fusion warheads don't have to be a direct hit (sorry, should have mentioned that, forgot), but can also detonate by proximity. and they're propelled by a type of ion-impulse thruster, not just chemical rockets. Their size limits the placement of the launchers, hence why the ships have to face the targets, all the launch tubes face forwards.

You guys are just being a bit more precise with details like that, lol. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE that you are. Just not used to it cause not too many people pay that much attention. I'll just have to do better myself!

[The Disorder]

Here is an online calculator that I like to use for estimating the effects of nuclear detonations (in a vacuum).

https://web.archive.org/web/20170412013 ... n/nuke.php

Interestingly, in vacuum, nukes are substantially less deadly than they are in-atmosphere. When you set off a nuke in-atmosphere, the entire atmosphere turns into a kinetic weapon, driven away by the radiation pressure of the nuclear flash.

But in space, there is no atmosphere. There is no convenient matter to weaponize, just an immensely hot and bright flash. If that flash fails to boil its target through radiative heat, there is no overpressure to rip things apart.

You can estimate the effects of detonating a nuke in-atmosphere using this calculator. It really is a day-and-night difference:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Science/Nuke.html

Just to compare and contrast, a whopping 1000-megaton warhead detonated in-atmosphere would utterly erase a city and all its suburbs. The 4.6 PSI air blast, strong enough to obliterate most buildings, would reach out to over 70 km from the center, and it would cause third-degree burns up to almost 200 kilometers away!

Fire the same nuke in space and detonate it 1 km away from an enemy, and it will vaporize through only 11 meters of aluminum. 11 meters!

Your warheads won't need a 'direct' hit, ever. But in combat where distances are being measured in fractions of a light second, detonating at 1 km away is...basically a direct hit. If you detonated at 50 km away, the same 1000 megaton explosion would vaporize through only...4.5 millimeters of aluminum. It's kind of crazy to think that a standoff detonation that could wipe out a city might end up being used as a point defense weapon in space!

[Qhevak]

Interestingly, in vacuum, nukes are substantially less deadly than they are in-atmosphere.

Depends on the warhead setup. Personally most of my anti-shipping warheads use SNAK to focus the energy of the blast into a hypervelocity kinetic dart (which can also be a very useful last ditch orbital defence tool, as seen with the Gopher-W883 combo).

[CBG Palisade]

Interestingly, in vacuum, nukes are substantially less deadly than they are in-atmosphere.

Depends on the warhead setup. Personally my warheads use SNAK to focus the energy of the blast into a hypervelocity kinetic dart.

That's actually not a bad idea. Use a bump charge to clear the sail and then kick off the nuke behind it. I don't think my canon would have the materials science to make something like that, though, so we're stuck with ye olde Casaba howitzers. Yeah, can't wait to be turned to scrap!

[The Disorder]

This is also why my (much deadler) Sarvatheoz-class uses casaba-howitzer warheads, to vaporize through kilometers of armor without needing planet-cracking yields.

Sarvatheoz cruisers are not likely to see use in this particular RP though. Those are absurdly rare warships.

[Unthidor]

hey guys, sorry for disappearing. between personal problems and bad sinus migraines, just haven't been online the past few days. promise to get all caught up and replied tomorrow!

[CBG Palisade]

hey guys, sorry for disappearing. between personal problems and bad sinus migraines, just haven't been online the past few days. promise to get all caught up and replied tomorrow!

It's fine by me at least. I've had much of the same.

[The Disorder]

No worries. I figured that with the holidays coming up, there might be a lull in the RP sooner or later. Of course, personal problems & illness are the worst!

Also, I got a telegram from another nation that might be joining our RP. (Fingers crossed!)

[Unthidor]

ok, i'm up and online. give me a few minutes to catch up and figure out my next move.

[Unthidor]

sorry about delay, work got busy. I need at least one of those fighters (the leader) to escape. don't care about the other two. as for the two remaining cruisers, the dreadnought, and the carrier....... let's find out.

[The Disorder]

All good!

The fighters will not have any trouble reaching the planet's surface. Disorder pilots are occupied destroying much jucier targets!

[Telros]

Hello, hello!

Sorry for the delay, I was in the middle of doing worldbuilding/factbooking when I saw this rp and contacted The Disorder about this.

I am Telros, as it says on the tin, and I am playing the Totality of Mankind. I have some factbook stuff up, links can be provided if you want to take a gander, bear in mind everything is very much a WIP. I have TG'd Disorder about joining and was told to discuss my entry here, so here goes!

To be brief, the Totality is a post-end crisis/apocalypse/dimensional nightmare/END TIMES nation, where their religions Final Cataclysm happened, albeit with a twist they did not expect and ended up in this galaxy. They are named the Totality, as for a good several centuries, they only found human remnants of their old reality as well as other humans and united them before not finding anything else but ruins and whispers, and feared they were all that was left, so they became the 'totality' of Humanity. They are led by an Archpriestess and are basically an anocracy, a mixture of democracy and dictatorship. There is democracy up until what could be considered the Federal level, then the Archpriestess and her Council of Ten rule and are able to override almost everything and they are not chosen by the people, well the Council isn't, the Archpriestess has been alive for seven to eight centuries and doesn't believe in handing off to another for...reasons.

They are focused on uniting and protecting Humanity under the guiding and protective wings of the Totality, through a mixture of war and diplomacy, and as such are always on the lookout for human nations/colonies/polities in need, even in mixed species states. They are also keen explorers and excavators, seeking to find evidence/pieces of their reality before the Fall as well as find ancient and new technologies and, should they find a dead civilization, study and catalogue them before building a Tomb World for them to be remembered by and as a monument to their existence. For this thread, I imagine the Totality has gotten word that something has lead a warpath of genocide and dead that they have been tracking, killing aliens, but more importantly, humans alike. They have finally caught up to them at Everfree, but due to doctrine, distance and how their military works, they only have a Void Corps QRF [Quick Reaction Force] in the air that was one of many investigating possible next event sites. They will arrive, do their best to render aid, albeit depending on how far into the Everfree fight we are, probably get hilariously wrecked but get valuable data. QRF's are good at getting data so the Void Fleet can properly deploy and win.

As for the size of the force, I am thinking about 20 ships total, 2 Cruisers, 1 Command Variant, 1 'Artillery' Variant, 8 Frigates, 2 EW [Electronic Warfare] Variants, and 6 Spinal Coilgun Variants, 8 Destroyers, 4 Regular Coilgun Variants, 4 Spinal Coilgun variants, and 2 EW vessels, being sort of AWACS and aiding in command and control as well as ECM/ECCM [Electronic Countermeasure/Electronic Counter-Countermeasure]. Not big and not properly kitted out for the fight.

Any other questions or thoughts, suggestions, concerns, etc, feel free to let ask and I will answer/adapt accordingly.

[The Disorder]

I like the 'tomb world' idea. Telros could certainly be following in the Disorder's wake, trying to make sense of their bizarre and largely randomized pattern of exterminating intelligent civilizations.

However, it's quite possible, even likely, that Telros might notice a weird phenomenon: Dead worlds and destroyed societies scattered through the galaxy, which had no contact with one another, exhibiting the same signs of destruction. Traces of the same biological and chemical weapons, the same magic, the same radioactive isotopes, and the same size craters. All of this infers that these civilizations met a very similar fate, and all very recently.

'Catching up' to the Disorder would be a matter of random chance, since their migratory patterns are so unpredictable. The total randomness by which they attack also infers something very unsettling about either their numbers (...are they everywhere, have they already overtaken the galaxy?) or their stealth technology (...do they travel entirely unseen?) or their FTL technology (...are their ships so fast that cross-galaxy travel is trivial?) None of those answers are very inviting - although it is actually superior FTL tech at work, not stealth or numbers.

Telros' QRF suffering a hilarious wrecking but with valuable data obtained would be a great way to start off the RP. In fact, the Disorder even has a couple of fun tricks up their sleeves that they can use to even the odds at the battle of Terra Nostra, to establish space superiority - even when the good guys are expecting to have the numbers to successfully stall the Disorder in the space theater! Taking turns warping out and recharging shields is a pretty nightmarish kind of attrition, but the Disorder has even more diabolical battlefield strategies at their disposal.

The good news is, even though it is likely that the Disorder will achieve space dominance at Terra Nostra, their starships have no cheap and reliable orbit-to-surface bombardment weapons. Once the ground units that the Disorder brings are exhausted, no amount of star-system blockading is going to win the ground war. Their siege will stall, and the Disorder will be forced to cut their losses and break off.

For the near-term, to ensure that Telros' QRF is 'successful' in returning data to the rest of their fleet, I would recommend having them join the fight around the same time that Unthidor's task-forces 7 and 15 are engaged at Everfree. A larger clusterfuck with more ships in the battlespace at once will tend to offer better prospects of escaping. Most of the Disorder ORBAT's firepower comes from Arustkaanas, and no matter how agile they are, they can only shoot one target at a time with their spinal beams.

[The Disorder]

Unless Unthidor, Qhevak, or CBG Palisade have some serious objection (and I doubt they will, everyone has been very chill & awesome! ), I will go ahead and add you to the list of nations allowed to post in the Entropic Sunrise IC thread. Welcome aboard!

[CBG Palisade]

Speaking of arrival times, while my post has OOCly been delayed (and is nearly done!), when do you think the Disorder will want their new hires to enter the fight?

[The Disorder]

Probably after the rest of the Disorder fleet arrives (which may begin showing up in a half-dozen posts or less). It will be soon enough that our mercenaries will have some contact with the Unthian forces currently headed to Everfree. Telos' quick response force may also be present?

This allows the mercenaries to familiarize themselves with Disorder fleet operations. The Disorder isn't likely to need them for space warfare - but having extra ground troops during a planetary invasion? TOTALLY worth every gram of neutronium!

[CBG Palisade]

Everfree's looking to turn into a crowded place soon, then. Sounds good to me. Expect a post soon^tm on my part in that case. I'll have the sensor ship acknowledge the transmission, notify the others on the other side of the gate of what's gone down, and burn for it; I'll probably write their transit as well, since it's not likely to be very exciting or interactive, really.

[Telros]

I like the 'tomb world' idea. Telros could certainly be following in the Disorder's wake, trying to make sense of their bizarre and largely randomized pattern of exterminating intelligent civilizations.

However, it's quite possible, even likely, that Telros might notice a weird phenomenon: Dead worlds and destroyed societies scattered through the galaxy, which had no contact with one another, exhibiting the same signs of destruction. Traces of the same biological and chemical weapons, the same magic, the same radioactive isotopes, and the same size craters. All of this infers that these civilizations met a very similar fate, and all very recently.

'Catching up' to the Disorder would be a matter of random chance, since their migratory patterns are so unpredictable. The total randomness by which they attack also infers something very unsettling about either their numbers (...are they everywhere, have they already overtaken the galaxy?) or their stealth technology (...do they travel entirely unseen?) or their FTL technology (...are their ships so fast that cross-galaxy travel is trivial?) None of those answers are very inviting - although it is actually superior FTL tech at work, not stealth or numbers.

Telros' QRF suffering a hilarious wrecking but with valuable data obtained would be a great way to start off the RP. In fact, the Disorder even has a couple of fun tricks up their sleeves that they can use to even the odds at the battle of Terra Nostra, to establish space superiority - even when the good guys are expecting to have the numbers to successfully stall the Disorder in the space theater! Taking turns warping out and recharging shields is a pretty nightmarish kind of attrition, but the Disorder has even more diabolical battlefield strategies at their disposal.

The good news is, even though it is likely that the Disorder will achieve space dominance at Terra Nostra, their starships have no cheap and reliable orbit-to-surface bombardment weapons. Once the ground units that the Disorder brings are exhausted, no amount of star-system blockading is going to win the ground war. Their siege will stall, and the Disorder will be forced to cut their losses and break off.

For the near-term, to ensure that Telros' QRF is 'successful' in returning data to the rest of their fleet, I would recommend having them join the fight around the same time that Unthidor's task-forces 7 and 15 are engaged at Everfree. A larger clusterfuck with more ships in the battlespace at once will tend to offer better prospects of escaping. Most of the Disorder ORBAT's firepower comes from Arustkaanas, and no matter how agile they are, they can only shoot one target at a time with their spinal beams.

Ah, the Totality has a few tricks to help get the information back to them even if their force is wiped out, but they would probably wait for local reinforcements if possible before making their move. They know it is likely they're going to a slaughter, after all its their job to jump into the maw, the Void Corps, but they want to improve their chances.

Do you want me to do an intro post, setting the Totality scene and preparing for the coming fight or just wait until its time to join the Everfree battle?

[The Disorder]

Do you want me to do an intro post, setting the Totality scene and preparing for the coming fight or just wait until its time to join the Everfree battle?

Absolutely, go ahead and do an intro post. And don't worry, there won't be any wrong time to insert the quick response force into the battle for Everfree. Send them in whenever you feel it's appropriate - the RP requires no special timing or sequence of events.

[Unthidor]

hey guys, sorry again, cold got bad again and spent the past two days in bed. gonna try to get something up shortly.

Oh, and totally cool with the Totality joining as already discussed!

[Telros]

I have posted, a bit rough as its been a while.

Disorder, I took some liberties in determining how much they know from the previous places they have destroyed and how it affected their response and decision-making. If this doesn't work, let me know so we can work it out and I can edit. Otherwise, I'm good until Uni has deployed his reinforcements.

[The Disorder]

Welcome to the RP, Telros! I love that immensely detailed post! Everything is good, and all assumptions made about the Disorder are pretty accurate. The post also opens up opportunities to demonstrate stuff that the Disorder has done to other civilizations, which won't be done to Unthidor.

For example, all the 'cheap' options that the Disorder has for exterminating planets have legitimate countermeasures. But there are a number of much rarer, faster, and more expensive methods that they can use to quickly besiege worlds. And as the Disorder is a nation with no currency, 'expense' takes on a fun and abstract meaning, which will probably be explored later in the RP.

I may actually make a similar world-building post where various minds in the Disorder debate the best strategic course of action. Which will mostly come down to: "Expensive methods are awesome, but we can't use them all the time!"

Additionally, if the Unthian dreadnought does surrender, then the Telros QRF may have an opportunity to conduct a rescue mission!

[CBG Palisade]

Well, I guess we've all got longer posts ahead of us, then. I intend to get into some more world-buildy stuff as well, and develop a few more characters to use about the fleet since I fully expect the low-level ones to drop like flies once we get into the thick of the fighting and the moral crises start to ensue.

Hopefully I won't be delayed again like I was last time, but given that Christmas is now over things should pick up shortly for me.