NationStates

Langenia wrote:I must say that I admit defeat. However, thank you, everyone, for enlightening me more on warfare and adding to my knowledge on this subject. Thanks for the story of "In HARM's Way" too. Nevertheless, in Operation Desert Storm of the Persian Gulf War, there is a good example of strategic bombing with little losses against a modern military with excellent air defenses, like Erusea. The US Air Force had by then learned lessons from the cost of Operation Rolling Thunder in the Vietnam War and pilots were well trained and experienced, unlike in Vietnam where they had little to no experience and were poorly trained. Thus, I could say that the USAF reflects my Air Force and Operation Storm Dragon reflects Operation Desert Storm more than Operation Rolling Thunder. Also, by "easily replaceable losses," I mean that Langenia, having an excellent arms manufacturing industry and vast natural resources, could easily build more planes to replace the ones lost. Thanks again, guys.

Okay, but Erusea isn't Iraq, Langenia isn't the USA, and arguably Erusean pilots would have greater experience due to the fact that there's been several wars in relatively recent history against a peer ally, giving Erusean pilots a good deal of experience.


Langenia bombing Erusea is more equivalent to the US bombing Russia at it's height, not the US bombing Iraq.

You still also haven't explained how your pilots made it from Osea to Erusea to Nacrad in one flight. Ignoring the fact that your assumed that the Osean strike was successful and that you weren't immediately cucked by based Osean Air Defense.


Now post losses for your unorganized mob of aircraft.

Revanchist Erusea wrote:Which still doesn't explain why your pilots aren't dying of exhaustion from hitting three very distant countries.

Presumably they went home and slept between missions. It's not like fighters, or even bombers, have the range to fly back and forth around the world on one tank of gas. Even with aerial refueling, they'd still have to return to base and land to get more ordnance.

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:SEAD'ing fighters when your jammers are self-defence only is the sort of nonsense that makes me strangle a thousand kittens.

NOT THE KITTENS!!!

Mitheldalond wrote:

Revanchist Erusea wrote:Which still doesn't explain why your pilots aren't dying of exhaustion from hitting three very distant countries.

Presumably they went home and slept between missions. It's not like fighters, or even bombers, have the range to fly back and forth around the world on one tank of gas. Even with aerial refueling, they'd still have to return to base and land to get more ordnance.

the way he wrote it seems like they happened immediately after one another. He mentions planes hitting Osea and then right after flying to Erusea.

Nation Name: The Cult of Cthullu/The Children of Cthullu*

Side (Osean\Joyean): Joyean

Support given:

1. One regiment from "The Right Hand of Cthulhu", the official military wing of the Cult (apprx. 3,000 men)
2. Deployment of a battalion from the Chemical Warfare Department of the Cult (approximately 100 men; chemical weapons utilised by the battalion include amnestics, poison gas (including Sarin, Mustard, Chlorine and Phosgene Gas))
3. Sale of Zeton Class Amnestics** to the Joyean government and military at highly discounted prices
4. Further deployment of more Cult forces if necessary

Any other notes or questions:
*the Cult is a terror organisation fanatically devoted to the eldritch entity known as "Cthullu", in spite of the fact there exists no evidence of this being existing. As for now, through real world, non-occult, non-fantasy means, the Cult has to rely on political connections, assassinations, terror attacks, and intervening in conflicts, and starting proxy wars in order to achieve its goal of starting a nuclear war

**A family of highly potent, lethal-in-large-doses, highly effective and difficult to detect substances produced by Scientists within the Cult that can cause anyone exposed to it to undergo severe damage to the nervous system, particularly affecting the parts of the brain associated with memory.

Did you read the rules?: Yes

It's time for the public announcement that any use of gas will elicit a nuclear response with anything up to 400 kiloton bunker busters I guess?

So doesn’t that just fulfill the cult’s purpose? I mean, the purpose of this cult is to indirectly cause large scale suffering and death on a planetary scale, because it believes that Cthulhu would only wake when there is great suffering and death. They believe that waking “Cthulhu” would require the screams of billions of tortured souls and nuclear war seems like a pretty good option. I guess the belligerents of this war would have to be more careful and restrained; whether they use WMDs of that scale is up to them.

Plus we’ll only be targeting civilian and economic centers so soldiers and military personnel would not be directly harmed, but instead lose the morale to fight when they realise the lives of their wives, children and parents are at very risk.

Finally the chemical isn’t that lethal, it’s more of an incapacitating chemical that only serves to destroy brain function and permanently disable the victim. I personally feel that if Ozean and it’s allies want to use nukes, then they’re the ones pushing things too far. Plus, we’re a literal cult, you can kill our members and destroy our settlements and scientific facilities, but you can never kill an idea.

Or OP could make this easy for all of us OOCly nd ban WMD's. *thinking*
Oh and if you introduce brain death in an victim you... kill them? This is almost as obvious as "People die when they are killed."

Thankfully these chemical weapons aren’t weapons of mass destruction. They come in small, compact containers (which are basically repurposed pest spray containers) and our soldiers deploy them by running up to the victim and spraying it in their face.

/joke

But seriously these aren’t even WMDs. Just give your citizens and soldiers gas masks or something. The British did that in WW2 and if a modern nation like Osean or Joyean can’t do that then I’d be very disappointed. I mean we got goddamn bombs and carriers and stuff like that in this RP that can destroy giant chunks of cities in one go or shoot down thousands of planes within minutes, compared to that this is still quite tame.

Plus we’re just offering to sell them the chemical, if they don’t wanna then eh, we just use it ourselves.

Also, the chemical doesn’t kill, it simply cause the victims to forget. Of course some times the chemical might do more harm then expected and one or two children may end up being sent into a permanent coma but that’s the risk Osean has to take if it doesn’t wan to give its citizens gas masks.

Our policy is one of indirect intervention and attrition. Money and factories spent on production of gas masks mean less money on planes, weapons and tanks.

Your problem is a chemical introduced into the brain is about a surgical as taking a chainsaw to the same. Probably because chemicals doesn't have a preference for any particular cell. If it causes cell death you'd melt somebody's face before you got to their brain.

So who cares? Isn’t the point of a war to kill people?
Fine! The Cult will now be sending several gazabillion tonnes of concentrated carborane acid in order to wipe out the Oseans! We shall let the soldiers carry plastic tubs of the acid and splash it at the faces of the enemy!

/joke

I’d honestly rather not get into the Hard Science of this stuff. Let’s assume, for the sake of this RP, consisting of entirely fictional constructs we users like to parade around as real life nations, that the chemical does exactly as intended ok? I just wanted to be a terrorist organisation upsetting global balances of power by use of unconventional weaponry and proxy wars, instead of arguing the specific science of how a semi realistic weapon can work. Alright? No hard feelings

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Your problem is a chemical introduced into the brain is about a surgical as taking a chainsaw to the same. Probably because chemicals doesn't have a preference for any particular cell. If it causes cell death you'd melt somebody's face before you got to their brain.

In his defense, there is a possibility of making a chemical compound that attacks neurons or biochemical compounds in the brain to produce the effects he speaks of. That is how psychiatric medication works more or less, by reacting to the biochemical reactions taking place in the brain. Benzodiazepines induce amnesia as a side effect, especially when taken with alcohol, so making a drug deliberately intended to induce amnesia is not far off.

Reorganisieren Reichregierung wrote:

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Your problem is a chemical introduced into the brain is about a surgical as taking a chainsaw to the same. Probably because chemicals doesn't have a preference for any particular cell. If it causes cell death you'd melt somebody's face before you got to their brain.

In his defense, there is a possibility of making a chemical compound that attacks neurons or biochemical compounds in the brain to produce the effects he speaks of. That is how psychiatric medication works more or less, by reacting to the biochemical reactions taking place in the brain. Benzodiazepines induce amnesia as a side effect, especially when taken with alcohol, so making a drug deliberately intended to induce amnesia is not far off.

I don't think the guy has thought this far especially since it's intended to be applied through the epidermis and from there hopefully through the blood brain barrier. Also angry letter sent, expect very large guided bombs to be inserted through your carriers.

Fine I get the memo, I’ll just leave.

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:

Reorganisieren Reichregierung wrote:In his defense, there is a possibility of making a chemical compound that attacks neurons or biochemical compounds in the brain to produce the effects he speaks of. That is how psychiatric medication works more or less, by reacting to the biochemical reactions taking place in the brain. Benzodiazepines induce amnesia as a side effect, especially when taken with alcohol, so making a drug deliberately intended to induce amnesia is not far off.

I don't think the guy has thought this far especially since it's intended to be applied through the epidermis and from there hopefully through the blood brain barrier. Also angry letter sent, expect very large guided bombs to be inserted through your carriers.

That would be epic. Expect your delivery platforms to eat some SAMs

The Cult of Cthullu wrote:Fine I get the memo, I’ll just leave.

Uhhh...

I don't think that was the memo per se, I think he just wanted you to scrap your chemical weapons for this one and fight conventionally.

Nation Name: The United North American Alliance

Side (Osean\Joyean): Osean

Support given: All resources available to the CIA, intelligence and special operations support

Any other notes or questions: N/A

Did you read the rules?: Yes

I changed my post on my Akula-class sub to mention it getting sunk. I'm also going to post the losses of Operation Storm Dragon. Ouch, my pride has taken a good beating, but it'll recover.

Langenia wrote:I changed my post on my Akula-class sub to mention it getting sunk. I'm also going to post the losses of Operation Storm Dragon. Ouch, my pride has taken a good beating, but it'll recover.

imagine having pride in the first place


imagine having patriotism for your NS nation

Polish Prussian Commonwealth wrote:

Langenia wrote:I changed my post on my Akula-class sub to mention it getting sunk. I'm also going to post the losses of Operation Storm Dragon. Ouch, my pride has taken a good beating, but it'll recover.

imagine having pride in the first place


imagine having patriotism for your NS nation

I have lots of pride and patriotism for my NS nation, as well as my real world nation.

Wait, where in the world is Osea located, and Erusea. You guys probably do have a point on the distances my pilots are flying, and it could help me say which Langenien military units are available there. Oh, I just remembered that not all bombers are slow, like mentioned in Erusea's post. The B-1 is not slow.

Order of battle for my arriving group:

NSM Chi-Rho(Chi-Rho class assault ship)(With 2 flights of AV-8s from the 1st Naval Attack Squadron)
NSM ΙΗΣΟΥΣ(Chi-Rho class assault ship)(with Utility Helicopter Squadron)

NSM Louis V(Roi-class cruiser)

NSM Ranulf II(Dux-class destroyer)
NSM Xavier(Dux-class destroyer)

NSM Malarky(Metropole-class frigate)
NSM Utrecht(Metropole-class frigate)
NSM Alsace(Metropole-class frigate)

NSM U1(U-class attack submarine)
NSM U2(U-class attack submarine)
NSM U15(U2-class nuclear attack submarine)

NSM Hadrian(Hadrian-class submarine tender)
NSM Saint Paul(Saint Holris-class fleet tanker)
NSM Saint Adrian(Saint Holris-class fleet tanker)
NSM Saint Adelheid(Saint Claire-class fleet replenishment vessel)

Various transport vessels.
The rest of the 1st Marine Regimental Combat Group.
The I. Belkagarde Regimental Combat Group.

Langenia wrote:Wait, where in the world is Osea located, and Erusea. You guys probably do have a point on the distances my pilots are flying, and it could help me say which Langenien military units are available there. Oh, I just remembered that not all bombers are slow, like mentioned in Erusea's post. The B-1 is not slow.

this is the map that i assume osea is working off of, and the one i am working off of. as you can see, this is not the IRL world map.

to hit both you would need a carrier(which you did not mention iirc), or bases.
you do not have bases in strangereal as everyone is either sucking osea off or are neutral and doesn't want to offend osea, as apparently osea is a psychopath of a nation and is surprised that a nation goes to war after their economy is sucked dry by an osean scam.

also
the question isn't of how slow it is, the question is of how manuverable it is. bombers have the maneuverability of a brick.

Langenia wrote:I have lots of pride and patriotism for my NS nation, as well as my real world nation.

ok

that image was 15 minutes of my life that i'll never get back.

worth every second.

Revanchist Erusea wrote:Order of battle for my arriving group:

NSM Chi-Rho(Chi-Rho class assault ship)(With 2 flights of AV-8s from the 1st Naval Attack Squadron)
NSM ΙΗΣΟΥΣ(Chi-Rho class assault ship)(with Utility Helicopter Squadron)

NSM Louis V(Roi-class cruiser)

NSM Ranulf II(Dux-class destroyer)
NSM Xavier(Dux-class destroyer)

NSM Malarky(Metropole-class frigate)
NSM Utrecht(Metropole-class frigate)
NSM Alsace(Metropole-class frigate)

NSM U1(U-class attack submarine)
NSM U2(U-class attack submarine)
NSM U15(U2-class nuclear attack submarine)

NSM Hadrian(Hadrian-class submarine tender)
NSM Saint Paul(Saint Holris-class fleet tanker)
NSM Saint Adrian(Saint Holris-class fleet tanker)
NSM Saint Adelheid(Saint Claire-class fleet replenishment vessel)

Various transport vessels.
The rest of the 1st Marine Regimental Combat Group.
The I. Belkagarde Regimental Combat Group.

Langenia wrote:Wait, where in the world is Osea located, and Erusea. You guys probably do have a point on the distances my pilots are flying, and it could help me say which Langenien military units are available there. Oh, I just remembered that not all bombers are slow, like mentioned in Erusea's post. The B-1 is not slow.

this is the map that i assume osea is working off of, and the one i am working off of. as you can see, this is not the IRL world map.

to hit both you would need a carrier(which you did not mention iirc), or bases.
you do not have bases in strangereal as everyone is either sucking osea off or are neutral and doesn't want to offend osea, as apparently osea is a psychopath of a nation and is surprised that a nation goes to war after their economy is sucked dry by an osean scam.

also
the question isn't of how slow it is, the question is of how manuverable it is. bombers have the maneuverability of a brick.

You are absolutely right about bombers. There were carriers involved in Operation Storm Dragon, I did mention the navy being involved.

Revanchist Erusea wrote:

Langenia wrote:I have lots of pride and patriotism for my NS nation, as well as my real world nation.

ok

that image was 15 minutes of my life that i'll never get back.

worth every second.

Even though that disorganized mob of aircraft is mine, I find that image funny. Hey, do your airports still take civilian flights?

The Cult of Cthullu wrote:So who cares? Isn’t the point of a war to kill people?
Fine! The Cult will now be sending several gazabillion tonnes of concentrated carborane acid in order to wipe out the Oseans! We shall let the soldiers carry plastic tubs of the acid and splash it at the faces of the enemy!

/joke

I’d honestly rather not get into the Hard Science of this stuff. Let’s assume, for the sake of this RP, consisting of entirely fictional constructs we users like to parade around as real life nations, that the chemical does exactly as intended ok? I just wanted to be a terrorist organisation upsetting global balances of power by use of unconventional weaponry and proxy wars, instead of arguing the specific science of how a semi realistic weapon can work. Alright? No hard feelings

Hey, this chemical seems interesting.

Langenia wrote:

Revanchist Erusea wrote:
ok

that image was 15 minutes of my life that i'll never get back.

worth every second.

Even though that disorganized mob of aircraft is mine, I find that image funny. Hey, do your airports still take civilian flights?

it's a war.


probably yes but with far more restrictions, including fighters escorting said planes.