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Osean-Joyean War (PT to PMT only, OOC, Signups Closed)

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]

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Langenia
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Founded: Apr 22, 2020
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Postby Langenia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:41 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:For all you people who thinks Dresden style terror bombing with bomber armadas to be still viable: Consider the Moscow air defence network in 1955 was designed and fully expected to annihilate a thousand bomber raid.


I know, that's why Langenien pilots are excellent at dogfighting and Suppression of Enemy Air Defences.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:43 am

Langenia wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:For all you people who thinks Dresden style terror bombing with bomber armadas to be still viable: Consider the Moscow air defence network in 1955 was designed and fully expected to annihilate a thousand bomber raid.


I know, that's why Langenien pilots are excellent at dogfighting and Suppression of Enemy Air Defences.

When you get annihilated by Meteors from 100 km's away dogfighting is meaningless.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:36 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Revanchist Erusea
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Postby Revanchist Erusea » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:48 am

Lang, I'm not changing a thing. There was no mention of your losses in my post, to my knowledge. Undo the edits to your post and make your response to my post in a new post.

I would also like to note that your planes, realistically, would have been slapped down far away from Farbanti. As such, Farbanti, thus far, has sustained little to no damage from any fighting.
Last edited by Revanchist Erusea on Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Revanchist Erusea
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Postby Revanchist Erusea » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:52 am

also hahaha datalink go brrrr
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Langenia
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Langenia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:58 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Langenia wrote:
I know, that's why Langenien pilots are excellent at dogfighting and Suppression of Enemy Air Defences.

When you get annihilated by Meteors from 100 km's away dogfighting is meaningless.
Edit: Draft orbatting, ETA to Osea 1-2 weeks:
Heavy Air Defence Corps:
  1. Schweres Luftabwehrregiment „Lehnhart von Lenningsfeld“ Nr. 8 (EADS TADS)
  2. Schweres Luftabwehrregiment „von Mollinary“ Nr. 9 (EADS TADS)
  3. Schweres Luftabwehrregiment „Freiherr Ramming von Riedkirchen“ Nr. 10 (EADS TADS)
  4. Schweres Luftabwehrregiment „Zahradniczek Edler von Kastelik“ Nr. 12 (EADS TADS)


Yeah, but being good at SEAD, avoiding a Meteor is easy.

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Langenia
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Langenia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:59 am

Revanchist Erusea wrote:Lang, I'm not changing a thing. There was no mention of your losses in my post, to my knowledge. Undo the edits to your post and make your response to my post in a new post.

I would also like to note that your planes, realistically, would have been slapped down far away from Farbanti. As such, Farbanti, thus far, has sustained little to no damage from any fighting.


1. I did mention that mission objectives have been achieved
2. You did mention slapping my bombers, AWACS, and tankers out of the sky.
3. Realistically, a force the size that I sent would suffer casualties, but with the training and combat experience my air force has casualties could be minimized, realistically speaking.
Last edited by Langenia on Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Revanchist Erusea
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Postby Revanchist Erusea » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:01 pm

Langenia wrote:
Revanchist Erusea wrote:Lang, I'm not changing a thing. There was no mention of your losses in my post, to my knowledge. Undo the edits to your post and make your response to my post in a new post.

I would also like to note that your planes, realistically, would have been slapped down far away from Farbanti. As such, Farbanti, thus far, has sustained little to no damage from any fighting.


I did mention that mission objectives have been achieved, and you did mention slapping my bombers, AWACS, and tankers out of the sky.

h

aight
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Revanchist Erusea
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Postby Revanchist Erusea » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:01 pm

Langenia wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:When you get annihilated by Meteors from 100 km's away dogfighting is meaningless.
Edit: Draft orbatting, ETA to Osea 1-2 weeks:
Heavy Air Defence Corps:
  1. Schweres Luftabwehrregiment „Lehnhart von Lenningsfeld“ Nr. 8 (EADS TADS)
  2. Schweres Luftabwehrregiment „von Mollinary“ Nr. 9 (EADS TADS)
  3. Schweres Luftabwehrregiment „Freiherr Ramming von Riedkirchen“ Nr. 10 (EADS TADS)
  4. Schweres Luftabwehrregiment „Zahradniczek Edler von Kastelik“ Nr. 12 (EADS TADS)


Yeah, but being good at SEAD, avoiding a Meteor is easy.



how do you commit SEAD on a plane
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Langenia
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Postby Langenia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:03 pm

Revanchist Erusea wrote:
Langenia wrote:
Yeah, but being good at SEAD, avoiding a Meteor is easy.



how do you commit SEAD on a plane


Sorry, I meant to say that the longer range the missile has the easier it is to escape it, because you have more time to react. Same concept of SEAD.
Last edited by Langenia on Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Peoples Republic of Joyea
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Postby Peoples Republic of Joyea » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:28 pm

Reorganisieren Reichregierung wrote:Nation Name: Großgermanisches Reich der Deutsches Nation (aka Germany or Deutsches Reich)
Side (Osean\Joyean): Joyean
Support given: Military, diplonatic and economic if needed be.
Any other notes or questions: Since open fighting has broken out exact figures would be variable deppending on the IC situation.
Did you read the rules?: This is stupid just like me hahahaha

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Joyean Military Industries (Defense Company):
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Revanchist Erusea
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Postby Revanchist Erusea » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:28 pm

I checked again.

No, I am not changing anything. There was no language that implied casualties; 'slammed' implies that your aircraft were taking fire, not that they were going down.

Which still doesn't explain why your pilots aren't dying of exhaustion from hitting three very distant countries.
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Folaisia
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Postby Folaisia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:30 pm

Revanchist Erusea wrote:I checked again.

No, I am not changing anything. There was no language that implied casualties; 'slammed' implies that your aircraft were taking fire, not that they were going down.

Which still doesn't explain why your pilots aren't dying of exhaustion from hitting three very distant countries.


^^
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Mitheldalond
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Postby Mitheldalond » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:49 pm

Revanchist Erusea wrote:
Langenia wrote:
Yeah, but being good at SEAD, avoiding a Meteor is easy.



how do you commit SEAD on a plane

Clearly you've never heard the tale of a B-52 named In HARM's Way. :p

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Polish Prussian Commonwealth
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Postby Polish Prussian Commonwealth » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:52 pm

Mitheldalond wrote:
Revanchist Erusea wrote:

how do you commit SEAD on a plane

Clearly you've never heard the tale of a B-52 named In HARM's Way. :p

Seen but still nice lmao
My canon is currently in a state of constant flux. Please do not take anything that I say as set in stone.
A 13 civilization, according to this index.

A traumatized MT-PMT constitutional monarchy consisting of a personal union of Prussia and Poland. A land of rampant gun ownership, Cold-war equipment, rabid hatred of Germans, militias with enough artillery to turn an armored division into a badly-shaken battalion of light infantry, and terrified American troops counting down the days until they rotate back home.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:54 pm

SEAD'ing fighters when your jammers are self-defence only is the sort of nonsense that makes me strangle a thousand kittens.

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Lauzanne
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Postby Lauzanne » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:55 pm

Revanchist Erusea wrote:I checked again.

No, I am not changing anything. There was no language that implied casualties; 'slammed' implies that your aircraft were taking fire, not that they were going down.

Which still doesn't explain why your pilots aren't dying of exhaustion from hitting three very distant countries.


Been lurking for quite a while, and I gotta say it is somewhat strange that Langenia has taken "losses that can easily be replaced" and that's it, while 'succeeding at objectives' which is a long simultaneous strike on three separate modern nations with scores of early warning radars, missile defences and their own aircraft is a bit ridiculous.

Not to mention the Akula-Class (assuming NATO codename of the Akula-Class SSN, not the Russian Akula class big boy) somehow leading a ship on a chase when modern torpedoes are very sophisticated and deadly, it's doubtful such a thing would even be detected before it exploded like a tin-can. Stealth is the greatest asset of a submarine, and if you get spotted you're kinda just waiting to die.

Also, AWACS and tankers being anywhere near the field of battle is what can best be described as a "bruh moment", bombers too since they're apparently striking at the same time as the fighters? Bombers and big stuff like the tankers and AWACS (assuming Il-78 tankers and A-100 AWACS aircraft) has the capability to avoid missiles approaching near-zero since they fly like bricks compared to fighters and I'd wager even an older S-300 system wouldn't have much issue blasting one to pieces. Also, I'm sure that modern countries like Erusea and Osea (from my admittedly limited experience with AC7) to have mid-range and short-range missiles which are less capable of being avoided. Not to mention if you're actually strafing targets, guns like Gepards or Tunguskas would be painting a fair few aircraft on them.

It'd be more realistic believable to strike one target at a time with preparation strikes to bring down air defence networks (taking into account the whole 'training and experience with SEAD') and mess with their aircraft and runways to get air superiority/dominance, but even then you'd want specialised aircraft to do that like Prowlers, Growlers or appropriately outfitted Fencers.

Although even then, you can't really say all your dudes are good at SEAD, considering it's a specialised role and the majority would primarily be trained for air superiority and ground attack missions.

Also kids, never forget the importance of electronic warfare aircraft.

Back to the depths I go

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Revanchist Erusea
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Postby Revanchist Erusea » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:00 pm

Lauzanne wrote:snip

based rant tbh. thanks.

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:SEAD'ing fighters when your jammers are self-defence only is the sort of nonsense that makes me strangle a thousand kittens.

how the fuck do you even SEAD a fighter, though, like legit

you can home in on it's radar sure, the Russians did something like that iirc but is that really SEAD

do planes count as air defenses
Last edited by Revanchist Erusea on Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:02 pm

There's a fair few ways of getting around jamming, the most obvious method being not being on the same frequency as the jammer. Being attacked on Ka-band (30-40 GHz) when the jammer/receiver is X-band (9-10 GHz) for example means that the first notice that you are under attack is when you see a really small black object slamming into your aircraft at mach 2-3.

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Reorganisieren Reichregierung
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Postby Reorganisieren Reichregierung » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:08 pm

Gentlemen,
I think what that dude means by "SEAD" is not SEAD but evasive and defensive countermeasures. He didn't SEAD a plane per se but got confused with regards to terminologies.
Last edited by Reorganisieren Reichregierung on Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Revanchist Erusea
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Postby Revanchist Erusea » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:11 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:There's a fair few ways of getting around jamming, the most obvious method being not being on the same frequency as the jammer. Being attacked on Ka-band (30-40 GHz) when the jammer/receiver is X-band (9-10 GHz) for example means that the first notice that you are under attack is when you see a really small black object slamming into your aircraft at mach 2-3.

imagine needing radar, electric-optical guidance gang rise up
Real talk; I thought a radar receiver would be able to deal with a wider range of radar frequencies? Granted I'm really not great at this stuff.

also just realized something

Langenia wrote:
Revanchist Erusea wrote:

how do you commit SEAD on a plane


Sorry, I meant to say that the longer range the missile has the easier it is to escape it, because you have more time to react. Same concept of SEAD.


evasive maneuvers are not SEAD.
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Revanchist Erusea
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Postby Revanchist Erusea » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:12 pm

Reorganisieren Reichregierung wrote:Gentlemen,
I think what that dude means by "SEAD" is not SEAD but evasive and defensive countermeasures. He didn't SEAD a plane per se but got confused with regards to terminologies.

Damn it! Beat me to the punch.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:15 pm

Revanchist Erusea wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:There's a fair few ways of getting around jamming, the most obvious method being not being on the same frequency as the jammer. Being attacked on Ka-band (30-40 GHz) when the jammer/receiver is X-band (9-10 GHz) for example means that the first notice that you are under attack is when you see a really small black object slamming into your aircraft at mach 2-3.

imagine needing radar, electric-optical guidance gang rise up
Real talk; I thought a radar receiver would be able to deal with a wider range of radar frequencies? Granted I'm really not great at this stuff.

Institutional inertia. Since 99% of the threats so far were below 10-11 GHz all the radar warners are in that frequency band. Probs why Japan is going to 35 GHz.

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Langenia
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Founded: Apr 22, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Langenia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:51 pm

I must say that I admit defeat. However, thank you, everyone, for enlightening me more on warfare and adding to my knowledge on this subject. Thanks for the story of "In HARM's Way" too. Nevertheless, in Operation Desert Storm of the Persian Gulf War, there is a good example of strategic bombing with little losses against a modern military with excellent air defenses, like Erusea. The US Air Force had by then learned lessons from the cost of Operation Rolling Thunder in the Vietnam War and pilots were well trained and experienced, unlike in Vietnam where they had little to no experience and were poorly trained. Thus, I could say that the USAF reflects my Air Force and Operation Storm Dragon reflects Operation Desert Storm more than Operation Rolling Thunder. Also, by "easily replaceable losses," I mean that Langenia, having an excellent arms manufacturing industry and vast natural resources, could easily build more planes to replace the ones lost. Thanks again, guys. :)
Last edited by Langenia on Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Langenia
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Postby Langenia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:55 pm

Revanchist Erusea wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:There's a fair few ways of getting around jamming, the most obvious method being not being on the same frequency as the jammer. Being attacked on Ka-band (30-40 GHz) when the jammer/receiver is X-band (9-10 GHz) for example means that the first notice that you are under attack is when you see a really small black object slamming into your aircraft at mach 2-3.

imagine needing radar, electric-optical guidance gang rise up
Real talk; I thought a radar receiver would be able to deal with a wider range of radar frequencies? Granted I'm really not great at this stuff.

also just realized something

Langenia wrote:
Sorry, I meant to say that the longer range the missile has the easier it is to escape it, because you have more time to react. Same concept of SEAD.


evasive maneuvers are not SEAD.


I know evasive maneuvers are not SEAD, but when doing SEAD or evading any missile, you do evasive maneuvers. To me, the farther away the target of a missile is, the more time the target has to react and evade. Besides, you wouldn't fire a long-range missile when the target was close.
Last edited by Langenia on Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Folaisia
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Postby Folaisia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:16 pm

This might be ridiculous on some level, but if we want to have a terrorist attack on Dunkeld, the largest city in my nation, be my guest.
The Scottish kingdom in North America.

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