Anarchy in Rome, A Sack Amidst Plague [MT-PMT, CLOSED, OOC]

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

Expeditionary forces at most. Full scale invasions would quite literally bring the family back together (The Borgia will kill each other, but will always fight for their common defense), call Spain and The Low Countries into play and kinda kill the mood tbh. This is an internal conflict of a great power over the seat of one the largest religious bodies on Earth. Going all blitzkrieg is not advisable.

No problem. I'm writing up my post now. Obviously I'm more than happy to change it if you don't think it fits.

Wonderful!

[McNernia]

Can I have a Emissary to the Papacy in Rome who writes a Report of this?

Probably would have a few guards.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

I changed the appearance of Mei Lee only because it'd better fit my aesthetic as a nation, but also because I found that painting and it was just too perfect not to use.

No, that is a correct use of the picture (and I really liked it, too!). Mei Lee is the Asian (Tsao) woman and Dogaressa of Amalfi. She is on the run and has already sent the evidence of her getting beaten to the police and merchant princes, etc., but the Doge of Amalfi has friends and allies that want her dead, even though she acted in self-defense.

Mary, meanwhile, is Virginio's daughter-in-law. She is smitten with Virginio's son and, compared to Mei Lee's violent nightmare, Mary is "So Happy Together". She follows her husband's lead and supports her father's rebels, actively participating and using her mind to aid.

Mei Lee, meanwhile, is rushing north to find sanctuary at the hall of the Warrior Nuns. This isn't because she's afraid of the Borgian See's government, but rather, the classic Italian vendetta. In addition to blood feuds, a lot of people invested a lot of money to get the Doge to come out on top, and they were deprived of that "investment".

If you kill a powerful man, even in self-defense, amoral people aren't going to care. They will want repayment. That is how I view Mei Lee's circumstance. Again, I'm not knowledgeable on Italian history and culture as you are, so I have a lot of.... pop culture in mind when I do this.

While I have done research, I'm first and foremost telling a story. Accuracy is extremely important to me, so if you spot any mistake I make, please let me know.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

God willing, I will be posting my next part on Saturday.

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

A city on fire amidst a plague, initiated by a brazen murder. While wholly not the same at all...I'm a still little offput by the whole thing in Minneapolis. Utterly infuriating what happened to that man, but that's a whole other thread probably already in General.

When life imitates art like that, its just weird an eerie. The RP is going to continue, just had to note some of those similarities.

[The State of Monavia]

Il Borgia Vaticano telegrammed me a link to the IC thread earlier this month and I am currently in the process of writing my first post for it (a process that is taking much longer than I first planned). Apart from wanting to take part in an RP like this for quite a while, I have a number of (tentative) RP angles that I want to offer up for consideration by the other players here. Depending on what Il Borgia Vaticano and the others think, I might choose to modify my approach to this unfolding drama. Here is my current plan:

Over the course of my nearly fourteen years here, my characters have watched a lot of NS papacies shrivel up and blow away with the passage of time. Doomingsland ist kaput, Quirnia and Thrinia are both history, the schismatic papacy Libanon set up in 2014 is now but a fading memory, and the Avalon Papacy (the only one to have IC dealings with Monavian Catholic leaders in the past) has vanished like the morning dew. For better or worse, the Borgian See is the only noteworthy NS papacy left standing, and even though it has its own internal issues, Monavian Catholic leaders recognize it is the only serious game left in town (on a global scale, anyway).

With these facts in mind, Monavia’s Catholic leaders see the potential loss of the last major papacy as both a threat and an opportunity. It is a major threat because it leaves the Church leaderless (an invitation for a destructive global free-for-all) and makes the Church “look bad” to countless unbaptized nations whose future conversion might someday bolster the Church’s ranks. They also see this crisis as a major opportunity, however, as they believe they have the resources to play a kingmaker role or exert substantial leverage over the process by which this crisis is resolved. They also see this crisis as an opportunity to discredit some of the Borgian Papacy’s unique practices and force the papacy to commit to some permanent reforms that will leave it in much healthier political and financial shape down the road.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Monavia, if what you say is true in terms of your nation's flock, then it would be sensible for the Monavian Rite to formally request Full Communion with the Borgian See and recognize, in writing and before God, that the Borgian Pope is the man considered to sit in Peter's seat. If it's not official, few Borgian Italians and even fewer Borgian Papists will ever consider aiding you. Why would they care for a state in service to an Antipope?

Also, I posted my next chapter yesterday, ahead of schedule.

[The State of Monavia]

Monavia, if what you say is true in terms of your nation's flock, then it would be sensible for the Monavian Rite to formally request Full Communion with the Borgian See and recognize, in writing and before God, that the Borgian Pope is the man considered to sit in Peter's seat.

All right, I had better clarify a few things here to avoid any confusion down the road. First, there is no Monavian “rite” in the sense of a distinctive tradition within the Catholic faith (e.g. Eastern Rite versus Western rite in RL). Theologically speaking, most Catholics in Monavia are just generic NS Roman Catholics. Second, I am unaware if Il Borgia Vaticano has an OOC policy requiring RPers who have not RPed with the Borgian See before to file a request for communion. If that is the case, I will need to have a telegram exchange with Il Borgia Vaticano and work out these details. Third, permit me to explain my past RP approach to threads like this one by quoting an excerpt from a Discord chat I had with some friends last week:

@Moka I have always RPed Monavian Catholicism along its RL theological lines. I briefly touched on its relationship with other churches and communions in part II in my history factbook series, so allow me to give you a little summary here. A long time ago I got wrapped up (from a writer's perspective) in helping my characters make sense of the multiplicity of NS papacies springing up like mushrooms all over the place. Since some of these papacies claimed ancient roots, my solution was very simple.

I decided [for worldbuilding purposes] that the Monavian Christians whose doctrines concerning church organization and administration (ecclesiology) favored the Catholic approach over the Orthodox approach found multiple papal sees vying for their loyalty. In an effort to save themselves from internal division over who to follow, they got the various sees (whose main disagreement with one another was over who ought to occupy St. Peter's seat but otherwise agreed on theology) to acccept [sic] an arrangement in which they would leave Monavian Catholics to their own political devices.

In practice, this means that Monavian Catholicism has two operational deviations from RL. The first is that the local Catholic primate (chief bishop) automatically gets cardinal status ex officio upon becoming the locl [sic] primate. In RL, the Pope has to elevate (i.e. promote) a bishop to cardinal status), but since NS has multiple papcies, I used this creative license to sidestep an in-universe problem that had no easy solutions. The other big deviation from RL, in which only the Pope has authority to ordain and invest bishops, is that the Monavian cardinal has the authority (again ex officio) to ordain bishops in the name of the Pope (without having to specify which one).

If it's not official, few Borgian Italians and even fewer Borgian Papists will ever consider aiding you

My present RP plan is for Monavian Catholic leaders to make appeals to the Catholic world’s rank-and-file believers, not to solicit aid from Borgian religious magnates. I am open to RPing overtures towards and dealings with those characters only after I have first RPed the factors that establish my IC basis for participating in this RP.

Why would they care for a state in service to an Antipope?

Since Il Borgia Vaticano is the only RPer who appears to be operating a functioning papacy anywhere on NS Earth at this time, there are no “antipopes” in whose service Monavians could be, so this issue is presently moot. If another RPer was operating a functioning papacy similar to any of the more conventional ones that have gone defunct over the years (e.g. Quirnia, Avalon, Thrinia, etc.), chances are that Monavian Catholic leaders would be aiding them and my RP angle here would be markedly different from the one I am taking now. The only other RP angles I can imagine besides “mix things up with the Borgian See” and “back another see” (again, none exist) are “start a Monavian see” (not going to happen for a multitude of IC and OOC reasons, starting with the fact Monavia has no basis on which to claim such power) and “RP Monavian Catholic leaders setting themselves up as the leaders of a global sedavacantist movement” (an RP angle that requires a time commitment beyond my present means).

[Vegvarak]

Well, I tried to read up on everything - and there's my first RP post as Vegvarak after an almost 2 year hiatus. Let me know if I missed anything I should adress, Borgia

For some context, Vegvarak and Orrovia are a part of the Trabadian Empire along with Trabadius (Another player who CTE'd over a year ago). The Empire has long supported the Borgian Papacy and considers the Borgia family to have divine blessing in spiritual matters, but also temporal divine right to rule over Europe, Africa and the Americas. Within the Empire itself, opinions are divided by region. Trabadius, the imperial heartland, usually nominally supported the Borgia while trying to advance the autonomy of it's own church. Orrovia - a mostly autonomous militaristic Republic dominated by trade companies, has at times been at odds with the Borgia and accused them of being sinful libertines, while Vegvarak - a former kingdom, now more of a duchy in a personal union under Trabadius, has generally been the most supportive of the Borgia within the Empire. The Empire is extremely isolationist and somewhat anti-technology so communication to-and-from it is difficult.

Vegvarak and Orrovia's cardinals are assumed to have been in Italy at the time of the outbreak, and were waiting it out in Umbria when the sack of Rome and power struggle began.

[McNernia]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FST ... sp=sharing

My latest post.

[Allanea]

Mcnernia:

1. Excellent post.
2. Do you want me to wait for you to post that efore I RP my government contacting you?

[McNernia]

Mcnernia:

1. Excellent post.
2. Do you want me to wait for you to post that efore I RP my government contacting you?

Ill post this first.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Just for the record, I left my post where I did in order for someone else to pick it up. I was hoping that Borgia himself would be the one to write a meet up with Mei Lee. Obviously, if she is attacked or meets a hostile party, she will survive and flee.

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

Sorry for vanishing everyone. Extremely busy...almost two weeks!? Good God. I'm posting tonight, I hope, but let me respond to this OOC thread first. It'll be a somewhat lighter post, probably, but I will be getting back into things ASAP.

Just for the record, I left my post where I did in order for someone else to pick it up. I was hoping that Borgia himself would be the one to write a meet up with Mei Lee. Obviously, if she is attacked or meets a hostile party, she will survive and flee.

My issue here is I accidentally combined Mei Lee and Mary's stories. Trying to figure out how to untangle that mess....

Il Borgia Vaticano telegrammed me a link to the IC thread earlier this month and I am currently in the process of writing my first post for it (a process that is taking much longer than I first planned). Apart from wanting to take part in an RP like this for quite a while, I have a number of (tentative) RP angles that I want to offer up for consideration by the other players here. Depending on what Il Borgia Vaticano and the others think, I might choose to modify my approach to this unfolding drama. Here is my current plan:

Over the course of my nearly fourteen years here, my characters have watched a lot of NS papacies shrivel up and blow away with the passage of time. Doomingsland ist kaput, Quirnia and Thrinia are both history, the schismatic papacy Libanon set up in 2014 is now but a fading memory, and the Avalon Papacy (the only one to have IC dealings with Monavian Catholic leaders in the past) has vanished like the morning dew. For better or worse, the Borgian See is the only noteworthy NS papacy left standing, and even though it has its own internal issues, Monavian Catholic leaders recognize it is the only serious game left in town (on a global scale, anyway).

With these facts in mind, Monavia’s Catholic leaders see the potential loss of the last major papacy as both a threat and an opportunity. It is a major threat because it leaves the Church leaderless (an invitation for a destructive global free-for-all) and makes the Church “look bad” to countless unbaptized nations whose future conversion might someday bolster the Church’s ranks. They also see this crisis as a major opportunity, however, as they believe they have the resources to play a kingmaker role or exert substantial leverage over the process by which this crisis is resolved. They also see this crisis as an opportunity to discredit some of the Borgian Papacy’s unique practices and force the papacy to commit to some permanent reforms that will leave it in much healthier political and financial shape down the road.

We are always accepting new nations to be in communion with Rome. Feel free to participate as a soon as you can. As for interfering with our unique practices, good luck haha, The House of Borgia like to find ways around any imposed restrictions on their ways of life. They always do.

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

And by light post, I apparently meant three decently sized ones....

[McNernia]

@Allanea, I responded to you.

Also Im just trying to work out my various ideas. Namely claims my dynasty has.

[The State of Monavia]

Sorry for vanishing everyone. Extremely busy...almost two weeks!? Good God. I'm posting tonight, I hope, but let me respond to this OOC thread first. It'll be a somewhat lighter post, probably, but I will be getting back into things ASAP.

I am equally guilty of this as RL has recently thrown some things in my way.

We are always accepting new nations to be in communion with Rome. Feel free to participate as a soon as you can.

Thank you for issuing a ruling on this matter. I will see what I can get written this week.

[McNernia]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/152r ... sp=sharing

The next post.

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

I'm all for it. Not dead...Busy as hell. Weird summer, really.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Sorry that I haven't been very much alive since post 1... summer's happening basically.
So, from what I gather so far:
1. International-British waterways in the North Sea has been mined up to Calais-Dover-East Anglia, a blatant act of war against the Commonwealth itself.
2. The Straits of Gibraltar has been blockaded by Royal Spanish forces, a blatant contravention of the 1958 Geneva Convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone (to which Britannia is a party of as Vol. 516 League of Nations Treaty Series 205.
3. Italy is still burning.
What I plan to do:
1. Demine the area, supported by Fighter Command and MRA's with bombs if necessary.
2. Fuso's going to drive a sizeable force through under innocent passage and any attempt to touch them will be considered an act of war.
3. Pop popcorn while continuing to do absolutely nothing to prevent what the Allanean allies are up to in the Med.
Does this work out?

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

Here's a updated poorly made map in paint of the current situation in italy, territory wise:

Dark Green: Milan
Light Green: Occupied of House d'Este
Red: Lawless Territory/Controlled by Orsini
Orange: Coalition of The Caveja Occupation
Light Blue: Republic of Venice
Purple: Naples

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

Sorry that I haven't been very much alive since post 1... summer's happening basically.
So, from what I gather so far:
1. International-British waterways in the North Sea has been mined up to Calais-Dover-East Anglia, a blatant act of war against the Commonwealth itself.
2. The Straits of Gibraltar has been blockaded by Royal Spanish forces, a blatant contravention of the 1958 Geneva Convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone (to which Britannia is a party of as Vol. 516 League of Nations Treaty Series 205.
3. Italy is still burning.
What I plan to do:
1. Demine the area, supported by Fighter Command and MRA's with bombs if necessary.
2. Fuso's going to drive a sizeable force through under innocent passage and any attempt to touch them will be considered an act of war.
3. Pop popcorn while continuing to do absolutely nothing to prevent what the Allanean allies are up to in the Med.
Does this work out?

I'd restrain it a bit. Rome doesn't recognize those treaties, and the mines were laid in self defense. A blatant act of war like that by Fuso would only serve to unite the entire empire against you.

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

Oh and I posted for today.

It should've been two posts, tbh. Long as Dante's hell is deep.

Before anyone says anything, the Marian Apparition is not a signal we're delving into magical/fantasy technology. I think I peppered in enough "reasonable" explanations as to why it was just a hallucination or something to keep it on tech.

[Allanea]

1. I need to contemplate what I'll do next, because I don't want to derail the thread too far (It should by rights to be principally about Italy and it's internal conflict, even though ICly Allanea is planning to take advantage of that). So I'll post but it may take a day or two.

2. Of course as I understand it it's not really an act of war to do demining in international waters. I could be wrong.

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

1. I need to contemplate what I'll do next, because I don't want to derail the thread too far (It should by rights to be principally about Italy and it's internal conflict, even though ICly Allanea is planning to take advantage of that). So I'll post but it may take a day or two.

2. Of course as I understand it it's not really an act of war to do demining in international waters. I could be wrong.

That's true about the second thing. The act of war thing was more about Fuso barging through a blockade being held by Spain and Morocco.