NationStates

Daarwyrth wrote:OOC: And this is why I was reluctant to join NS RP all this time, out-of-character bickering and drama. If this is going to be a left vs right thing then I'm out, sorry. You can consider Daarwyrth's responses on these RP forums as null and void.

Valentine Z wrote:OOC: I am not supposed to be here, anyway, so.... I will respect that and this will be the last post from me.

With that said, I will be watching the development unfold, because as much as I don't like to war, this is getting interesting.

-Astoria wrote:[OOC: if this is going to degenerate into outright war, then you can consider the messages that I have made here null and void.]

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:

Satuga wrote:OOC: M8 your nation just declared that people attempting to better the world should have their lives ruined, how did you not see the fact more democratic nations would have a very large issue with this lol.

it is possible to respond to something without declaring war, you know.

Satuga wrote:

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:it is possible to respond to something without declaring war, you know.

My nation didn't exactly declare war, just declared you're an enemy of freedom, which you have slaves so it's not like I'm lying lol.

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:snip

OFFICIAL STATEMENT OF PILIPINAS AND MALAYA

---

Pilipinas and Malaya heavily condemns this statement. Our nation, an environment-loving nation, has announced support for the peaceful protest movements (but not the extreme ones), and has urged those across the world to engage in actions aimed towards saving the Earth. I would like to clarify to Mr. Fenwick that the threat is real and you can observe its effects on the small Pacific atolls, archipelagoes and islands. Peoples of these lands have been forced to migrate to higher ground. We are doing our part in reducing carbon footprints and emission, planting trees and recreating green spaces, turning factories into ecofriendly ones, revitalizing the transportation system and switching energy sources. We plan to follow the 2015 Paris Agreement and the Kyoto Protocol goals and follow Stockholm's carbon goals.

We have also permitted students to participate in rallies, as long as it will not affect their studies heavily. Such rallies have been widely popular among our nation and has raised awareness on the subject matter to politicians on both sides of the spectrum and the aforementioned actions have been affirmed by many parties within Pilipinas and Malaya.

What has Munkchester done in the face of these so called "alarmists" and to pacify these protests through non-violent means? Will your government take action as so many others have pledged to stop this threat, or will you stand idly by?

We will not force you to comply, because we do not want to interfere in your affairs. Just let our plea be heard.

Sincerely,
Sarah Tan
Minister of Foreign Affairs

Aaron Villasin
Minister of Environment and Agriculture

Official Government Correspondence of The Chuck

---

The Government of The Chuck is indifferent on this subject regarding the filthy Munkchesterian government's actions against whom they dub "Climate Alarmists". It isn't our place to tell them what they can or cannot do especially considering when in the grand scheme of things, they are quite small on the climate impact scale compared to us. If they go to war with other nations, we will support our allies but aside from that we don't see why business shouldn't continue as usual.

However if there is enough of an international outcry or enough support is garnered by either supportive or bribed citizenry, private militia action may be taken against Munkchestian shipping within the Exclusive Economic Zone around our nation. It should be noted and reiterated that this action would be carried out by private citizens of The Chuck with no authorization from the government. Frankly we can't care less what our citizens do so long as it isn't detrimental to our home front efforts.

Pecunia non olet,

Nathaniel Halsey,
Commissioner of The Chuck Office of Commerce & Shipping

Nogodia wrote:

Servilis wrote:
If I could kudos this message, I would.

Do we have your support against the Tornado Queendom for their slavery and banning of climate protesting?

Satuga wrote:

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:snip

Your point is? I said democratic Nations would have a big problem with this, which we do. While I didn't declare war other nations did, how did you not expect this?

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:1. ...
2. no shit
3. I actually did expect it because this is NS

Satuga wrote:

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:1. ...
2. no shit
3. I actually did expect it because this is NS

So then whats the problem here?

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:

Common Territories wrote:

OOC:I didn't wish to post here, but seeing some of these figures made me think that posting something for newer people who are actually here for the first time (and not puppets) was a good idea.

"Recruitment" and "mass assault" are not excuses why this is viable; the latter is a strategy that China proves was dead in the 80s when it lost more men than it gained land against Vietnam in their brief conflict. You don't even share a land border with Munk, which you need if you hope to overwhelm with troops. Munk's point was that you are drafting so many people that it will affect your ability to wage war, have an economy, and have manpower to man what's left of your economy in the first place. For those who aren't entirely aware, the rule of thumb for military populations is that your nation needs two things: A certain level of both military and civilian population to achieve goals, and to never, ever, cross the 5% margin unless you're in a dire situation - like a world war for example. Most nations should go for 2-3 percent at most because this is under draft requirements and still allows for hefty manpower and good production limits - 4 being the absolute limit to peacetime population. 4% and 5% are the beginnings of the draft your nation needs to fill positions, 5% being the point where it will begin negatively affecting your nation with no benefits seen - in case none of you are aware, drafts generally are bad, m'kay? You sir/madam have a military population that's about roughly 14% of your population. The consequences of such a figure are as stated above, greatly detrimental to your nation's health especially since it's 9% more painful. Including everything from an economy that will collapse on itself without the manpower it needs to grow/sustain itself, the ability to produce or maintain the equipment you'll need to wage war, and of course, have an actual economy in the first place to help pay off that mountain of debt you're racking up, your nation will see dark times that get worse over time multiplied by 9%. Munk's comment about killing 1 million men in fishing boats wasn't entirely a joke, because affording anything else with such a military population is near impossible. Remember, you have to equip, train, and maintain these people along with paying them for their service - not doing so has consequences of its own. In general, the only people who use more than 5% are people who generally don't know better or who do it purposely for whatever reason they come up with.

But lets take the Soviet Union for example since "Mass Assault" was named. Its population in 1941 was 170,548,000 people. Over 34,476,700 people served in the Red Army during war years; they became so desperate that they even started drafting women because the overall death count for the Soviets was theorized to be over 40 million with civilian casualties. So you could say in the end they had likely more people serve overall, give or take. That means roughly 20% of their population was drafted into the military during the war at any time. If you're unaware how devastated the Soviet Union was after the war, I encourage you to research it because war time Soviet Union was not a nice place one bit.

And all I'll say about the actual topic of the thread is this: Munk has a point, some of you are proving it (if you're real that is) and showing extreme hypocrisy, and if you attack someone militarily for any reason, they have every right to respond to you with military force as well.

also: the idea that the Soviets used "mass assault"/"human wave"/[whatever you want to call it] attacks outside of the Winter War (where they were used because the Red Army had literally just been purged and it still wasn't quite as stupid as it's been made out to be in popular culture - there was significant support and they were actually somewhat effective) and very specific situations on the Eastern Front is pretty much a myth (and of course you can debate if it's a result of Nazi propaganda or not).

so, yeah. not an expert or anything though so .

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:Are you seriously asking that question

Shazbotdom wrote:

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:also: the idea that the Soviets used "mass assault"/"human wave"/[whatever you want to call it] attacks outside of the Winter War (where they were used because the Red Army had literally just been purged and it still wasn't quite as stupid as it's been made out to be in popular culture - there was significant support and they were actually somewhat effective) and very specific situations on the Eastern Front is pretty much a myth (and of course you can debate if it's a result of Nazi propaganda or not).

so, yeah. not an expert or anything though so .

And Russia was next to all those countries that it did the "Red Wave" to. You, however, are probably across oceans from all the nations that you have just stated that too. you know how easy it is to spot carrier battle groups large enough to transport that many troops, right?

Anybody with a navy worth a damn could blast every single ship of yours out of the water, because they would literally be the cheapest boats that you could buy to transport your troops because you would have no economy to support a war machine that big.

Satuga wrote:

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:Are you seriously asking that question

You expected the NS democratic community to react this way, but are getting pissy when they react the exact way you expected?

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:

Satuga wrote:You expected the NS democratic community to react this way, but are getting pissy when they react the exact way you expected?

oh, I expected some people to declare war in response. I just hoped for better.

and "getting pissy"? to quote many a parent: I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed

Satuga wrote:

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:

oh, I expected some people to declare war in response. I just hoped for better.

and "getting pissy"? to quote many a parent: I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed

Hoped for better? Really? These are the Nations beliefs, and how they respond is based on their beliefs. Just because you "Hoped" for people to not react a certain way doesn't mean they are in the wrong for reacting that way. They believe that ruining someones life for trying to better the world is unacceptable, on top of that your country allows for slavery. For any democratic and free nation this is a clear sign that YN is literally the exact opposite of theirs and therefore may warrant war. Hell my nations whole schtick is that we free those who are oppressed, so technically my nation should have immediately called for war because thats the policies of MN.

Satuga wrote:

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:

oh, I expected some people to declare war in response. I just hoped for better.

and "getting pissy"? to quote many a parent: I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed

Hoped for better? Really? These are the Nations beliefs, and how they respond is based on their beliefs. Just because you "Hoped" for people to not react a certain way doesn't mean they are in the wrong for reacting that way. They believe that ruining someones life for trying to better the world is unacceptable, on top of that your country allows for slavery. For any democratic and free nation this is a clear sign that YN is literally the exact opposite of theirs and therefore may warrant war. Hell my nations whole schtick is that we free those who are oppressed, so technically my nation should have immediately called for war because thats the policies of MN.

Tornado Queendom wrote:I saw this as an opportunity to start a war of imperialism, and I took that opportunity. Also, I wanted to prevent an eco-fascist dystopia.

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:

Satuga wrote:
Hoped for better? Really? These are the Nations beliefs, and how they respond is based on their beliefs. Just because you "Hoped" for people to not react a certain way doesn't mean they are in the wrong for reacting that way. They believe that ruining someones life for trying to better the world is unacceptable, on top of that your country allows for slavery. For any democratic and free nation this is a clear sign that YN is literally the exact opposite of theirs and therefore may warrant war. Hell my nations whole schtick is that we free those who are oppressed, so technically my nation should have immediately called for war because thats the policies of MN.

- yeah i actually did hope for better
- no they're responding completely irrationally
- i am sorry for hoping people would not immediately jump to war like they always do on NS. if all the eco-warriors looking for an excuse for a war think they're in the right i suggest they calculate the environmental impact of taking military action against Munkchester thank you. Or if it's instead about free expression idk don't waste as much and go declare war on a larger neighbour that doesn't give Nazis the right to free speech or something
- they aren't declaring war because of slavery.
- this is some incredible liberal interventionism

Tornado Queendom wrote:I saw this as an opportunity to start a war of imperialism, and I took that opportunity. Also, I wanted to prevent an eco-fascist dystopia.

you posting from the right nation?

Tornado Queendom wrote:

Satuga wrote:
Hoped for better? Really? These are the Nations beliefs, and how they respond is based on their beliefs. Just because you "Hoped" for people to not react a certain way doesn't mean they are in the wrong for reacting that way. They believe that ruining someones life for trying to better the world is unacceptable, on top of that your country allows for slavery. For any democratic and free nation this is a clear sign that YN is literally the exact opposite of theirs and therefore may warrant war. Hell my nations whole schtick is that we free those who are oppressed, so technically my nation should have immediately called for war because thats the policies of MN.

I saw this as an opportunity to start a war of imperialism, and I took that opportunity. Also, I wanted to prevent an eco-fascist dystopia.

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:
- yeah i actually did hope for better
- no they're responding completely irrationally

- i am sorry for hoping people would not immediately jump to war like they always do on NS. if all the eco-warriors looking for an excuse for a war think they're in the right i suggest they calculate the environmental impact of taking military action against Munkchester thank you. Or if it's instead about free expression idk don't waste as much and go declare war on a larger neighbour that doesn't give Nazis the right to free speech or something

- they aren't declaring war because of slavery.

- this is some incredible liberal interventionism

Satuga wrote:

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:
- yeah i actually did hope for better
- no they're responding completely irrationally

To YOU.

Satuga wrote:

- i am sorry for hoping people would not immediately jump to war like they always do on NS. if all the eco-warriors looking for an excuse for a war think they're in the right i suggest they calculate the environmental impact of taking military action against Munkchester thank you. Or if it's instead about free expression idk don't waste as much and go declare war on a larger neighbour that doesn't give Nazis the right to free speech or something

It is about freedom of speech, and no one said that Nazis are ok to say shit like "All Jews should die". You're suggesting prohibiting people who are voicing concerns about the planet and no matter how extreme their voices seem they are still pushing for something POSITIVE. And your response to that is ruin their economic life and throw them in jail for 5 years? Seems like you're forgetting that people have different views than you and different ways people react, some will out right go to war, and some will sanction you or even ally with you. Just because people went to a war with a nation actively suppressing the very thing they stand for doesn't mean "Oh NS is so stupid all people ever do is declare war."

Satuga wrote:

- they aren't declaring war because of slavery.

One person who declared war explicitly stated it wasn't just due to your stance on Climate change "alarmists". Sure some probably just out right declared war on you as is their right to do so if they think your nation has taken it too far, just as it's your right to declare war on a smaller nation toting how they're going to destroy all nations who have slaves or some shit.

Satuga wrote:

- this is some incredible liberal interventionism

Cool and it would have been liberal interventionism if America or Europe invaded Germany to put an end to Hitlers dictatorial BS, yet if the allies did do that before the holocaust ever happened the world would most definitely been a better place. Sometimes liberal interventionism is a good thing, hell I really want the democratic world to intervene in the BS that's happening in HK does that mean Im a bad person for wanting HK's people to have their democratic freedom? Point is you're getting all "disappointed" over bullshit that you think is bad when other people don't.

Satuga wrote:It is about freedom of speech, and no one said that Nazis are ok to say shit like "All Jews should die".

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:

Satuga wrote:To YOU.

yes they are responding to me thank you for pointing that out.

Satuga wrote:It is about freedom of speech, and no one said that Nazis are ok to say shit like "All Jews should die". You're suggesting prohibiting people who are voicing concerns about the planet and no matter how extreme their voices seem they are still pushing for something POSITIVE. And your response to that is ruin their economic life and throw them in jail for 5 years? Seems like you're forgetting that people have different views than you and different ways people react, some will out right go to war, and some will sanction you or even ally with you. Just because people went to a war with a nation actively suppressing the very thing they stand for doesn't mean "Oh NS is so stupid all people ever do is declare war."

1. yes, this means the only reasonable course of action in response to someone being mean to environmentalists is war
2. i'm aware people have different views to those presented by my nation... i am merely suggesting they could offer their own views in a more sensible manner.
3. i mean do you want to pretend otherwise just look at this thread LMAO

Satuga wrote:One person who declared war explicitly stated it wasn't just due to your stance on Climate change "alarmists". Sure some probably just out right declared war on you as is their right to do so if they think your nation has taken it too far, just as it's your right to declare war on a smaller nation toting how they're going to destroy all nations who have slaves or some shit.

no they stated they declared war on Tornado Queendom because of slavery.

Satuga wrote:Cool and it would have been liberal interventionism if America or Europe invaded Germany to put an end to Hitlers dictatorial BS, yet if the allies did do that before the holocaust ever happened the world would most definitely been a better place. Sometimes liberal interventionism is a good thing, hell I really want the democratic world to intervene in the BS that's happening in HK does that mean Im a bad person for wanting HK's people to have their democratic freedom? Point is you're getting all "disappointed" over bullshit that you think is bad when other people don't.

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:yes they are responding to me thank you for pointing that out.



1. yes, this means the only reasonable course of action in response to someone being mean to environmentalists is war
2. i'm aware people have different views to those presented by my nation... i am merely suggesting they could offer their own views in a more sensible manner.
3. i mean do you want to pretend otherwise just look at this thread LMAO

no they stated they declared war on Tornado Queendom because of slavery.

Satuga wrote:You do realize you had two people back you right? It wasn't just all people declaring war, some people sanctioned, some denounced your Nation. It wasn't just a whole string of people declaring war with you and that's it, get your head out of your ass.