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The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

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Kroando
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The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Kroando » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:19 pm

The Failure of Fascism
By Enver Velspar


Forward. The political ideology that presupposes the superiority of an people based on genetics and natural ability. The governmental form of dictatorship that assumes a single leader is flawless and has all answers to the questions of statehood. The political ideology that values the state over the man. It is this ideology that has caused untold amounts of death throughout this world for less gain than any other cause in the history of mankind. The term fascist carries such an odorous connotation in the civilized world that none would dare self-classify themselves as such, although even in the modern world there remain states that indulge in this primitive ideology. Fascism is the bane of mankind, worse even than the backwards ways of communism, and must be stamped out in our lifetime.

Ch.3 Nationalism's Failing. Genetically we are all the same. Though the Nazi's and Fascists in Italy may have had an excuse, lack of understanding in basic genetics, modern fascists have no such excuse to deny that all humanity is made up of the same stuff. With almost no difference in the gene pool of any two ethnic groups, the claim of fascists that one ethnic group is superior to another by birth quickly dissolves. There are no superior peoples or races. This is not to say some are not better, than others. Certainly I am no liberal or proponent of complete Democracy. I do not see all people as equals. However I would claim that we are born as equals as the British Philosopher John Locke has said. The superiority of one man over another, or one people over another, is a result of events after birth. Education. Training. War. Competition. These things can make one people greater than another. However this is not what the fascists would claim. They would say that their people, by blood are superior. Well this is nonsense, for all our nations have geniuses and fools...

Ch.6 On Absolutism Only a madman would assume he alone held all the answers, and that is exactly the function of a fascist government. If one man is given all power it is assumed he must have unlimited wisdom, for why else would concentrate all authority in one figure? No reasonable man would say that one man is for cunning than all others combined, so why give all power to a single wise man, instead of a collection of wise men? Here aristocracy proves far superior to dictatorship. Even democracy where the idiots are allowed to cast their votes is guided by a collection of wise men whom exploit the masses to do their bidding. Dictatorship is by far the worst form of government, as it only proves who was lucky enough to seize power, and nothing more.

Ch.7 Economics. The centralized privatization of an economy is by far the most foolish of all possible economies. Any economist will say that monopolies will eliminate much potential production and benefit, as the motive is profit, and the greatest amount of profit is made by undercutting supply. At least the communists claim not to be motivated by profit. Fascist support for monopoly and opposition to labor makes the utility of the consumer and the worker decrease in return for small profit increases on the behalf of the monopoly. What good is a corporation if it does not contribute to anything but itself? Cartel Economics, or at the very least free market economics must be used for proper growth and continuity. Centralized privatization provides the least production, poorest tax return for a government, and least utility for a state...

[This is a book written by Enver Velspar that will be updated from time to time. Feel free to send him death threats, post book sales (or burnings), or book reviews. Pretty much whatever. Completely Open - just try to RP.]
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Spooty » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:54 pm

Review: The Failure of Fascism, Enver Velspar


In his political Essay, The Failure of Fascism, Enver Velspar makes several disparaging comments towards the political ideology: Fascism, whilst I make no assertions that might support Fascism my comments in regards to this piece of literature may give that impression. Upon having finished the piece I found it highly difficult to take seriously the comments of the author when it is obvious that he has either a very basic or blinded view on Fascism, take for example the content of Chapter Three.

"With almost no difference in the gene pool of any two ethnic groups, the claim of fascists that one ethnic group is superior to another by birth quickly dissolves."


With one simple overview of the Fascist ideology one can quickly determine that this idea of Genetic Superiority is one held only by the Nazi party of former Germany and one which has been magnified by several unlearned men in the past to have been a policy of all the great* Fascist leaders. If we are to take Fascism at its most simple and original form** it can be described as: The State is Superior to the Society, however under Nazi Germany this was extended to include Race over State, if Fascism is the most misused word of our times then this must be the largest misnomer of our times.

Here I must comment on the surprising lack of the author to bring in comparisons, through out Chapter three and indeed beyond we are told to accept as fact what he has written supported only by the fragile quotes of men, though wise, still fallible, as a result the author makes comments such as:

"this is not what the fascists would claim. They would say that their people, by blood are superior. Well this is nonsense, for all our nations have geniuses and fools..."


Though certainly filled with rich wisdom the previous quote does not offer any such evidence to support its claims, not through footnotes nor extended information, we are left with our investigations as to what nation the author may be referring or whether indeed he has note of any such.

Wholly the piece suggests more of Propaganda than examination, but the lack of suggestion towards change to any one other political centre leaves this critic baffled as to the heart of the essay. Are we to input our own political ideologies into the essay? This would certainly be the other conclusion to take from a political report, the likes of which would be taken from a Politicians desk, but not that of a critique made for the minor Politics student. The final offer of the essays meaning is surely the most depressing, that maybe the author was simply misguided when he wrote the essay, certainly the evidence is there that this author has examined every ugly misnomer of the Fascists and magnified it beyond proportions.

My final thoughts are that should you have an interest or career in Politics this is not the book to lead you into the Upper Houses of your Government. If you wish to learn the details of Fascism I recommend a spectrum of books from both its supporters and detractors, preferably those whose content is supported by evidence.

Almar Marseilles

* Here the term "Great" Is used in the context of the classic Fascist leaders, of which I refer to Benito Mussolini, Francisco Franco etc

** As developed under Benito Mussolini
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Merieu » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:05 pm

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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Christstan » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:27 pm

Book Review, Professor Hanz Richtophen, Professor of Philosophy, University of Strausberg
Submitted both to the author and to University Personnel (to revoke the review of the book by the University)


On your Forward, Fascism is not solely on genetics and natural ability, but also the strive of one people to survive in an eternal conflict of races and that they must assert themselves over another race to preserve their dominance in this eternal struggle. Your attack on the value of the State over man is highly unwarranted, especially when you have isolated it only to Fascism, Communist states also advocate this idea, and far more have fallen victim to the ideas and struggles of communism than any fascist state. The foul connotation of Fascism is largely due to the results of the Great War. The same stigma could have befallen Communism, which is by far a more dangerous and backwards ideology, however in desperate times, even potential enemies could become allies to achieve a common purpose. While I believe you have taken the literary freedom to make the claim that Fascism has caused great death for no gain, or perhaps that idea that values the State over the man, but their is little evidence to support either. The Fascist German state was one of the first to recover from the aftermath of the Great Depression. It transformed an economically weak, dejected people into a world power over the course of a few years. The benefits of that time period may still be felt even to modern times. While the Communists attempted such endeavors with the Five Year plans to transform their nations, they were far more costly for much smaller gains. Stalin did transform the Russian State into a modern one, but at the cost of millions of his own people.

You attack communism at the end of your forward, for which I commend you for including it at least in part in this discussion. The idea of State over man is not innately dangerous, but it is merely how it is implemented. It is the idea that we are all part of a community and that by working together we may achieve far more than alone, and working with the group is far more productive than working against it.

You have missed the ideals of Nationalism entirely as they have come down to the modern world. You touch on it slightly with one people feeling greater than another but the basis of your argument is almost entirely genetic. Nationalism, as we know it in Christstan, is the love of one's own people, culture, history, and ideals. If one feels proud that they are a member of their nation, that would be a Nationalistic sentiment. While I in no way deny that Nationalism has come down to some as Ethnic Nationalism, but their reasons for their pride are usually a love of their own culture, history, people, and ideals. Ethnic Nationalism is the reason many countries exist today (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Serbia, and most of the Eastern European, Balkan states, and many others), largely because many people feel the need to band together with their own to achieve a common goal of their culture. Often minorities have been ignored, ostracized, and overlooked by cultures that differ from their own simply for differing goals. Hence the reason for National Self-determination, and the creation of these states.

Nationalism can be a powerful force, that can be used negatively as we have seen, but is also a force for much good and necessary change. Nationalism imparts unity, comradery, and identity to the people who accept it. When a nation is attacked and guerrillas seemingly appear from nowhere, or men rush to the colors of their nation, that is Nationalism spurring them to defend their homes and people. We hear in Christstan love our nation, our traditions, our history, and our people. Not simply for how we were born, but as you have said, the things that make one people great, what they have accomplished after birth.

Perhaps the idea you seek to refute is not Nationalism, rather Racism. Your argument seems to follow much better in an attack on the beliefs of superiority or inferiority based on genetics, that would be an attack on Racism.

Fascists do not uphold that one man may hold all the answers, but instead advocate a single party state that follows their leader. In fact, historical Fascist states have had a very large bureaucracy and parliaments, they feel it is more productive if all move together. The single leader is simply the final authority, an authority figure with whom they have trusted with the judgement to do what is necessary. They see their leader as a symbol of their unity and to prevent internal disagreements from developing that would be to the detriment of the nation by slowing down necessary legislation.

Your view of Fascist economics is very questionable as to where you have based it on. Fascism is taken as yet another option to Capitalism or Communism. A collaborative effort between management and labor. Fascists advocated for a strong national Unity of economics, but not for the creation of an entire proletariat class. They also abhor the liberal capitalist who would control monopolies for they believe that is what causes the, creation of classes, and for class conflict. Then attack communists for exploiting the conflict created by Capitalists. Fascists seek unity of purpose. You seem to forget that Fascism saved the German economy from is deplorable state following their defeat and the subsequent Great Depression. The state of their economy was so poor that employers paid their workers twice per day and shoveled them money into barrels. Children played with money on the streets because of the worthlessness of their currency. In fact, it is estimated that the paper was likely worth more than the value of the money. However the Russian Communist state took one bad economy and turned it into another. Most people still suffered and lived poorly. However the German Fascist may claim that they took the shambles of the German Economy and turned all of the dejected, jobless, and poor into a streamlined effective workforce that rebuilt the sputtering economy and perhaps saved the nation from internal collapse.

It is free market economics that would support, or at least allow, for the existence of unregulated Monopolies. Complete freedom of economics is likely the cause of the Great Depression as corporations practiced shady policies of stock watering, and banks gave loans freely even to those with no means to repay them.

I do not intend to defend Fascism, I simply wish to bring to light more information that perhaps has yet to be considered. Here I play the devil's advocate to simply be fair to the subject. While I see your effort to demean a questionable form of government as a noble one, your arguments are filled with assumptions of their own truth, opinions, and do not argue the point they try to prove, with some being largely fallacious.
Last edited by Christstan on Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Greater Americania » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:57 pm

OOC:

Kroando wrote:
Forward. The political ideology that presupposes the superiority of an people based on genetics and natural ability.


This is but pure ignorance. He clearly does not understand what a nation or a race is if you make this statement. They are social, not physical constructs. If a nation is superior, then it is superior based off of it's military and economic strength, as well as it's historical record in such endeavors. If he cannot understand this, he should not even bother arguing against Fascism because what you're arguing against isn't Fascism. He's failing at arguing against a concept that was never backed by any Fascist Party.

The governmental form of dictatorship that assumes a single leader is flawless and has all answers to the questions of statehood.


No Fascist system ever assumes such. Authoritarian leaders are not perfect. For him to say this is like me to accuse him believing the people are always right. I sincerely hope he has the intelligence to acknowledge that that as well is not true.

Fascism however does recognize that authoritarian governments have historically been more successful than democratic leaders on the vast majority of historical cases. But though he is right. Some historical dictators have gone absolutely insane such as Nero. The Fascists took account of this and even went so far as to impeach Mussolini in 1942.

It is this ideology that has caused untold amounts of death throughout this world for less gain than any other cause in the history of mankind.


Notice he never says when in history such death took place. The number of people killed by the Fascists is comparative in percentage to the amount of people killed in all political revolutions. Even the democratic ones.

The term fascist carries such an odorous connotation in the civilized world that none would dare self-classify themselves as such, although even in the modern world there remain states that indulge in this primitive ideology.


A shame. Primitive? Not at all. Fascistic movements have appeared throughout history in periods of enlightenment. The earliest ideology that could be considered Fascistic was Caesarism in ancient Rome, which is an undeniable highlight of human civilization. Fascism later developed in Europe after witnessing the democratic and Capitalist failures in Europe.

Fascism is the bane of mankind, worse even than the backwards ways of communism, and must be stamped out in our lifetime.


What is he talking about? Fascism and National Socialism were utterly stomped out at the end of WWII. You seem to lack historical and political knowledge from what I've read so far.

Genetically we are all the same. Though the Nazi's and Fascists in Italy may have had an excuse, lack of understanding in basic genetics, modern fascists have no such excuse to deny that all humanity is made up of the same stuff.


Good job! He must have paid attention in Biology class. As I've already explained, Fascists have never based their ideology over this and it is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

With almost no difference in the gene pool of any two ethnic groups, the claim of fascists that one ethnic group is superior to another by birth quickly dissolves. There are no superior peoples or races. This is not to say some are not better, than others.


To be superior is to be better. That's what the word means.

Here are the definitions of the two as defined by the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

Superior: of higher rank, quality, or importance

Better: more advantageous or effective

Certainly I am no liberal or proponent of complete Democracy. I do not see all people as equals. However I would claim that we are born as equals as the British Philosopher John Locke has said. The superiority of one man over another, or one people over another, is a result of events after birth.


Ok, yes. Fascists can agree to this.

Education. Training. War. Competition. These things can make one people greater than another. However this is not what the fascists would claim. They would say that their people, by blood are superior. Well this is nonsense, for all our nations have geniuses and fools...


Yes. The Italians felt themselves superior to the rest of the world because they had a history in political dominance. It was one of their cities, Rome, that had dominated the world only two millenia ago. Italy had been since the dawn of man, a highlight of human civilization. They had power, influence, and control. They were masters of war and out-fought all others in most cases in history. They had a reason to feel superior. Throughout history, they had been superior.

Only a madman would assume he alone held all the answers, and that is exactly the function of a fascist government. If one man is given all power it is assumed he must have unlimited wisdom, for why else would concentrate all authority in one figure? No reasonable man would say that one man is for cunning than all others combined, so why give all power to a single wise man, instead of a collection of wise men? Here aristocracy proves far superior to dictatorship. Even democracy where the idiots are allowed to cast their votes is guided by a collection of wise men whom exploit the masses to do their bidding. Dictatorship is by far the worst form of government, as it only proves who was lucky enough to seize power, and nothing more.


Once again this is like me saying "Only a madman would assume the people have all the answers, for why else concentrate authority in them?". My point is that authoritarian rule has been more successful throughout history because it relies less on bureaucracy and can get things done with much more ease.

The centralized privatization of an economy is by far the most foolish of all possible economies. Any economist will say that monopolies will eliminate much potential production and benefit, as the motive is profit, and the greatest amount of profit is made by undercutting supply. At least the communists claim not to be motivated by profit. Fascist support for monopoly and opposition to labor makes the utility of the consumer and the worker decrease in return for small profit increases on the behalf of the monopoly. What good is a corporation if it does not contribute to anything but itself? Cartel Economics, or at the very least free market economics must be used for proper growth and continuity. Centralized privatization provides the least production, poorest tax return for a government, and least utility for a state...


Enver Velspar needs to study history. The Fascists employed a Corporatist form of economy which didn't necessarily allow for monopolies. If he doesn't know what a Corporatist economy is organized like, he has know business arguing about Fascism in any degree as it is such a major component of Fascism.

This man from the quotes from the book you have provided has no grounds to argue against Fascism and demonstrates a lack of historical knowledge on Italy, the Fascist movement, and Fascist ideology.
Last edited by Greater Americania on Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Brogavia » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:59 pm

Trolling GWO?
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Tolvan » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:46 pm

Greater Americania wrote:
Kroando wrote:
Fascism is the bane of mankind, worse even than the backwards ways of communism, and must be stamped out in our lifetime.


What is he talking about? Fascism and National Socialism were utterly stomped out at the end of WWII. You seem to lack historical and political knowledge from what I've read so far.


OOC: First off why are are you OOCly responded to an IC post as if it's a political statement? Second, as his post his IC and NS is full of fascist states his point is stil valid.
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Allied Governments » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:48 pm

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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Greater Americania » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:59 pm

Tolvan wrote:OOC: First off why are are you OOCly responded to an IC post as if it's a political statement? Second, as his post his IC and NS is full of fascist states his point is stil valid.


OOC: I saw other responses so I figured it was OOC. I'll edit it.
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Member of the Santiago Anti-Communist Treaty Organization

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President: Austin Farley
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Secretary of State: Jason Lee
Secretary of Defense: Shane Tomlinson
Secretary of Federal Security: Ross Ferrell
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Secretary of Territorial Administration: Brandon Terry
-Governor of Tlozuk: Jarod Harris
-Governor of Comaack: John Fargo
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby L3 Communications » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:19 pm

Brogavia wrote:Trolling GWO?


((OOC:

They see me tollin
They hatin
Patrolling they tryin to catch me trollin fascists
Tryin to catch me trollin fascists
Tryin to catch me trollin fascists
Tryin to catch me trollin fascists
Tryin to catch me trollin fascists))
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Brogavia » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:24 pm

L3 Communications wrote:
Brogavia wrote:Trolling GWO?


((OOC:

They see me tollin
They hatin
Patrolling they tryin to catch me trollin fascists
Tryin to catch me trollin fascists
Tryin to catch me trollin fascists
Tryin to catch me trollin fascists
Tryin to catch me trollin fascists))


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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby The Grand World Order » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:28 pm

MAGNA POLIS - Today, the book "The Failure of Fascism" was released in bookstores today under the Comedy aisles, next to Communist Manifesto. Critics agree, Failure of Fascism is a great read that will keep you and your family laughing for hours at a time.

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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Greater Americania » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:29 pm

OOC: GWO, lol.
Federal Republic of Greater Americania: “Liberty, Soveriegnty, Freedom!”
Original Founder of the Nationalist Union
Member of the Santiago Anti-Communist Treaty Organization

Nationalist Republic, governed by the National Republican Party
Economic Left/Right: 2.0, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 6.21
President: Austin Farley
Vice President: John Raimark
Secretary of State: Jason Lee
Secretary of Defense: Shane Tomlinson
Secretary of Federal Security: Ross Ferrell
-Chief of Interior Security Forces: General James Calley
Secretary of Territorial Administration: Brandon Terry
-Governor of Tlozuk: Jarod Harris
-Governor of Comaack: John Fargo
*Territories are foreign nations which have been annexed by the Federal Republic

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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Allied Governments » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:30 pm

Greater Americania wrote:OOC: GWO, lol.


He is lucky as hell to have managed to get that name. I would have gone with naming my nation World Order and changing the first part to The New, though.
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Jeuna » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:55 pm

You really ought to listen to The Economics of Fascism series; a lot of the opinions are just generic hurf a durf nonsense, especially "centralized privatization" wtf is that?

EDIT: On second thought, no, don't try to explain yourself. Just look for the series.
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Kroando » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:10 am

[Well first off, I'd like to thank those who took the time to write coherent IC responses. To those of you whom simply threw some OOC nonsense down, please refrain or take it elsewhere. While I am not here to have an OOC debate, I will address a few ignorant comments made by by people thus far.

@Jeuna. First of all, basing your understanding of 'fascist economics' - if there even is such a thing, on the History Channelesque 'The Economics of Fascism' is definitely a bad way to go. Centralized Privatization, a term in all higher-level university economics courses, is a broader term for types of corporatism and monopoly structured economies - which are common in 'fascist' economies. Now as there is no single fascist economic system, a different system being seen in literally every fascist state, it is clear that the author of this book is claiming that all fascist states employ corporatism and monopoly styled development. Now whether or not you agree is irrelevant - this is an IC RP and the author has set forth this opinion. The fact that you feel it necessary to attack me OOC'ly because you disagree with an IC post is nonsense and if you're going to continue it please stay out.

@Great Americania. You actually were the first person to make an OOC response to my RP, unlike what you claimed. It is clearly an IC post, the thread CLEARLY stating it is a book written by a IC character. If you have problems with it for OOC reasons either keep it to yourself or voice them IC'ly. Im not even going to mention how a deranged it is that an American actually supports fascism. Furthermore your understanding of real world fascist ideology seems pretty warped. I am going to address a few of your more distorted comments, though all of them are equally uneducated. Though there is no clear-cut definition of fascism, historians generally accept that fascist regimes are those nationalist ideologies that promote the greatness and superiority of the state over the individual on the basis of racial superiority - thus ruling out ancient dictatorships as fascist. A key aspect of fascism is the level of domination exerted by the state over all aspects of life - something that was physically impossible in ancient and medieval times due to technological developments in the 20th century. Again, you may consider the regimes of Nero, Caesar and others fascist - and this is your right - but in general the historic community differentiates between dictatorships and fascist dictatorships. A race is actually a biological construct, whereas ethnicity is a cultural construct. This is fact. Skipping around a bit to avoid more talk on racial and ethnic relevance to fascist ideology, we come to the economics. Corporatism is a sort of state monopoly, operated by different members of society in a sort of 'centralized privatization' - which often was not private, but dominated by state run companies. The point of the economic section was basically to state that corporatism as an economic model is poor in terms of long term development for it does not allow for the maximum level of production, inflates prices and undercuts total potential profit for the profit of the individual company [which holds a monopoly on the industry]. Italian corporatism succeeded at jumpstarting a dead economy, granted. However in terms of long term growth and potential production/consumption... a basic econ class will expose the massive gaps in this system - only communism failing worse in terms of long term growth. With this all said, I'd really like to keep this IC.

I will put up an IC post soon for those of you that responded IC'lly.]
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Greater Americania
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Greater Americania » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:38 am

OOC: Consider this Greater Americania's official IC criticisms of the book then.

We support Nationalism which is different, but similar which is why we're defending Fascism.

Furthermore your understanding of real world fascist ideology seems pretty warped. I am going to address a few of your more distorted comments, though all of them are equally uneducated. Though there is no clear-cut definition of fascism, historians generally accept that fascist regimes are those nationalist ideologies that promote the greatness and superiority of the state over the individual on the basis of racial superiority - thus ruling out ancient dictatorships as fascist.


Fascism has only been made vague as of recently when the public, confused by democratic and Communist propaganda, began to beleive that National Socialism is a form of Fascism. Fascism was founded in Italy by Italian WWI veterans so the definition of Fascism is theirs. Who else's? Fascism is even defined by Italian Fascists through books such as The Doctrine of Fascism.

Racial superiority is incorrect. Modern Fascists and WWII era Fascists clearly have asserted that Fascism is a separate ideology from National Socialism, which bases it's ideology off of racial politics while the Fascist systems never have. Anyone who says otherwise has no grounds to argue what they do as Fascists have clearly outlined what their philosophy as in comparrison of National Socialism.

We never said Caesar's regime was Fascist. It wasn't as it was anti-Nationalist. We said it was Fascistic meaning that it had qualities of Fascism.

A key aspect of fascism is the level of domination exerted by the state over all aspects of life - something that was physically impossible in ancient and medieval times due to technological developments in the 20th century. Again, you may consider the regimes of Nero, Caesar and others fascist - and this is your right - but in general the historic community differentiates between dictatorships and fascist dictatorships.


As we just said, they're Fascistic not Fascist. Many Fascists even cite influence from Caesarism.

A race is actually a biological construct, whereas ethnicity is a cultural construct. This is fact.


Dictionary.com defines a race as a "group of persons related by common descent or heredity". Let's expound upon this further. What do they have a 'common descent or heredity' from? A common cultural, social, and biological area. This makes race a social contruct with biological parts. For example, blacks all have a heredity from Africa which is clearly culturally different from the rest of the world yet is very similar. The cultures of African nations are more similar to one another than to those of European nations, because whites classify an entirely different race. Educate yourself before you speak.

Skipping around a bit to avoid more talk on racial and ethnic relevance to fascist ideology, we come to the economics. Corporatism is a sort of state monopoly, operated by different members of society in a sort of 'centralized privatization' - which often was not private, but dominated by state run companies. The point of the economic section was basically to state that corporatism as an economic model is poor in terms of long term development for it does not allow for the maximum level of production, inflates prices and undercuts total potential profit for the profit of the individual company [which holds a monopoly on the industry].


Your analysis is entirely false. Let's look into Corporatism on operational grounds. Corporatism organizes the economy so that all companies of a major industry and required to members of a state run organization known as a Corporation. A Corporatist corporation is different from a Capitalist corporation which causes much Capitalist ignorance when attempting to discuss Corporatism with them

A Corporatist corporation is a state run organization that brings all major companies of a major industry together to discuss matters relating to the industry. This gives the economy the efficiency of remaining private which is something that Communist/Socialist economies lack and it gives the economy the benefit of a organization which is something that Capitalist economies lack.

A Capitalist corporation is just another kind of company which under law is classified as an invididual. (At least in the United States)

The successes of Italian styled Corporatism heavily outnumber those of Capitalism

Corporatism:

-Fixed the post WWI Italian economy.
-Kept Italy out of the Great Depression, a depression that thrust nations into poverty and was entirely the result of the failure of Capitalism to maintain a steady rate of economic growth and production.
-Poised the Italian economy into a state where it could grow at 2% per year which was entirely unknown under Italian Capitalism.
-Provided Italy with a sense of domestic and economic stability that Capitalism could only dream of providing.


Italian corporatism succeeded at jumpstarting a dead economy, granted. However in terms of long term growth and potential production/consumption... a basic econ class will expose the massive gaps in this system - only communism failing worse in terms of long term growth. With this all said, I'd really like to keep this IC.


As I just explained, Capitalism failed on a degree far far worse. It's really quite disgusting that you have your faith in such an unregulated, disorderly, and ultimately horrid economic system which has proven to fail time and time with depressions and recessions that have never ended ever since the establishment of Capitalism in the Industrial Revolution.
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Secretary of Defense: Shane Tomlinson
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby The Grand World Order » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:53 am

Kroando wrote:[Well first off, I'd like to thank those who took the time to write coherent IC responses. To those of you whom simply threw some OOC nonsense down, please refrain or take it elsewhere. While I am not here to have an OOC debate, I will address a few ignorant comments made by by people thus far.

@Jeuna. First of all, basing your understanding of 'fascist economics' - if there even is such a thing, on the History Channelesque 'The Economics of Fascism' is definitely a bad way to go. Centralized Privatization, a term in all higher-level university economics courses, is a broader term for types of corporatism and monopoly structured economies - which are common in 'fascist' economies. Now as there is no single fascist economic system, a different system being seen in literally every fascist state, it is clear that the author of this book is claiming that all fascist states employ corporatism and monopoly styled development. Now whether or not you agree is irrelevant - this is an IC RP and the author has set forth this opinion. The fact that you feel it necessary to attack me OOC'ly because you disagree with an IC post is nonsense and if you're going to continue it please stay out.

@Great Americania. You actually were the first person to make an OOC response to my RP, unlike what you claimed. It is clearly an IC post, the thread CLEARLY stating it is a book written by a IC character. If you have problems with it for OOC reasons either keep it to yourself or voice them IC'ly. Im not even going to mention how a deranged it is that an American actually supports fascism. Furthermore your understanding of real world fascist ideology seems pretty warped. I am going to address a few of your more distorted comments, though all of them are equally uneducated. Though there is no clear-cut definition of fascism, historians generally accept that fascist regimes are those nationalist ideologies that promote the greatness and superiority of the state over the individual on the basis of racial superiority - thus ruling out ancient dictatorships as fascist. A key aspect of fascism is the level of domination exerted by the state over all aspects of life - something that was physically impossible in ancient and medieval times due to technological developments in the 20th century. Again, you may consider the regimes of Nero, Caesar and others fascist - and this is your right - but in general the historic community differentiates between dictatorships and fascist dictatorships. A race is actually a biological construct, whereas ethnicity is a cultural construct. This is fact. Skipping around a bit to avoid more talk on racial and ethnic relevance to fascist ideology, we come to the economics. Corporatism is a sort of state monopoly, operated by different members of society in a sort of 'centralized privatization' - which often was not private, but dominated by state run companies. The point of the economic section was basically to state that corporatism as an economic model is poor in terms of long term development for it does not allow for the maximum level of production, inflates prices and undercuts total potential profit for the profit of the individual company [which holds a monopoly on the industry]. Italian corporatism succeeded at jumpstarting a dead economy, granted. However in terms of long term growth and potential production/consumption... a basic econ class will expose the massive gaps in this system - only communism failing worse in terms of long term growth. With this all said, I'd really like to keep this IC.

I will put up an IC post soon for those of you that responded IC'lly.]


((OOC: Race doesn't matter in Fascism. It matters in Hitlerism. And I do believe that I'm actually not deranged, as you've claimed when you stated that "Im not even going to mention how a deranged it is that an American actually supports fascism," which is, in itself, contradictory because you just did. So you've just OOCly labeled anyone with Fascist ideals in the US as deranged- which is to say, insane. That CAN be counted as a personal insult, brought out OOCly. I've already made my IC response, which reflects my OOC opinion.))
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Telros » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:32 am

OOC:

. Im not even going to mention how a deranged it is that an American actually supports fascism.


Let me get this straight. A lot of people praise the freedom of thought and expression we are allowed in America and similar countries, but not when its in ideologies you don't believe in? If you are attempting to be open-minded, it's failing. You can not like an ideology but bashing someone who does believe in it goes against the spirit of freedom of expression and such. Really guys, I don't even believe in Fascism and I can see this simple fact.
Last edited by Telros on Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Greater Americania » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:53 am

OOC: i'm not even a Fascist. Just a Nationalist which is very similar.
Federal Republic of Greater Americania: “Liberty, Soveriegnty, Freedom!”
Original Founder of the Nationalist Union
Member of the Santiago Anti-Communist Treaty Organization

Nationalist Republic, governed by the National Republican Party
Economic Left/Right: 2.0, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 6.21
President: Austin Farley
Vice President: John Raimark
Secretary of State: Jason Lee
Secretary of Defense: Shane Tomlinson
Secretary of Federal Security: Ross Ferrell
-Chief of Interior Security Forces: General James Calley
Secretary of Territorial Administration: Brandon Terry
-Governor of Tlozuk: Jarod Harris
-Governor of Comaack: John Fargo
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Tybra » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:56 am

Tybra National Press Agency

Despite the expecting protest of the sales of the book 'The Failure of Fascism' everything has remained calm. Despite claims that this book was a purposely aimed against Imperator Lord C, Lord C merely proclaimed that this book was 'intriguing and has an interesting point of view'.

It was feared that the book would be banned yet this seem not yet a reality, despite the council giving the book banning as an advice for the Imperator, the Imperator ignored the advice and decided to let the economy do its work. As the Imperator predicted the book sale has been moderate and calm. The Imperator has also warned citizens that violent protests would be severely punished.

The University of the Holy Capital of Libra has already send out an invitation to Enver Velspar to expose his book into further detail and a debate.
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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Greater Americania » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:00 am

The book is officially banned in Greater Americania.
Federal Republic of Greater Americania: “Liberty, Soveriegnty, Freedom!”
Original Founder of the Nationalist Union
Member of the Santiago Anti-Communist Treaty Organization

Nationalist Republic, governed by the National Republican Party
Economic Left/Right: 2.0, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 6.21
President: Austin Farley
Vice President: John Raimark
Secretary of State: Jason Lee
Secretary of Defense: Shane Tomlinson
Secretary of Federal Security: Ross Ferrell
-Chief of Interior Security Forces: General James Calley
Secretary of Territorial Administration: Brandon Terry
-Governor of Tlozuk: Jarod Harris
-Governor of Comaack: John Fargo
*Territories are foreign nations which have been annexed by the Federal Republic

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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Jimanistan » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:52 am

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The Jimani Literary Society


We at the JLS would like to formally thank Enver Velspar for the publishing of his book, The Failure of Fascism. It is no secret that most people in Jimanistan loathe the facsists, and this is true. They have always stood directly in the way of the progress of the Working Class, directly in the way of Freedom.

To that end, we shall be distributing the book at schools across the country to children, considering the simple and easily-understood language of the book.

- Alice Waters,
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Demonym: Jimani
Capital: Fenario, Capital District
Head of State: Prime Minister Marie Clemente
Head of Government: Speaker Francois Durand

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Re: The Failure of Fascism, by Enver Velspar

Postby Xin Han » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:01 am

Although the government of Xin Han is associated with numerous Fascist governments, His Imperial Majesty does not believe in the banishment of books. He claimed that, while the book describes Fascism in a false manner in which only the author could understand, it shows readers how ignorant people are with political ideologies. The book was more about National Socialism or Nazism than Fascism. The author also seemed quite biased towards an aristocracy. His Imperial Majesty wishes to remind all peoples that most aristocrats do not earn their position in society, they are born with it. The author fails to realize that most authoritarian leaders have a large group of advisers to help the leader run the government.

Take the definition of Fascism from a Fascist in higher regard as opposed to the definition from one who despises the ideology.
Last edited by Xin Han on Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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