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As the Poppies Bloom (TWI ONLY | OOC)

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]

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Miklania
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Posts: 1437
Founded: Jun 06, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Miklania » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:14 am

Scantarbia wrote:Ever tried inserting SpecOps via submarine and a submersible? (e.g. SEAL Delivery Vehicle).
But okay then, I'll send a hospital ship alongside three frigates and a submarine to aid, now I just need to figure out how to enter the whole scenario, (what should my characters do, as I have no cassus belli on why I should send ships except for securing an infrastructure deal with MS)

There's no need to sneak people in, we have complete sea control. Frigates are not all that helpful either, and a sub is borderline useless. Conventional land forces would be more useful.

You can basically go in full realpolitik and state that your vested business interests are what are causing you to send a small support contingent to what you can cast as an international policing action.

On Government: Checks and balances and ways of stopping things from happening are the only things that provide a stable government and a stable society.

On Democracy: It is a very neutral thing. It can be the best way of ensuring a reasonable government, or it can lead to genocide in the name of 'the people'.

On NSG: I believe the technical term for you people is "malformed conscience".

On society: Until reason and science become cool again, the "enlightened" who profess both but practice neither will continue to gleefully chip away at the bedrock of human society.

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Menna Shuli
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Posts: 461
Founded: Feb 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Menna Shuli » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:40 am

Miklania wrote:
Scantarbia wrote:Ever tried inserting SpecOps via submarine and a submersible? (e.g. SEAL Delivery Vehicle).
But okay then, I'll send a hospital ship alongside three frigates and a submarine to aid, now I just need to figure out how to enter the whole scenario, (what should my characters do, as I have no cassus belli on why I should send ships except for securing an infrastructure deal with MS)

There's no need to sneak people in, we have complete sea control. Frigates are not all that helpful either, and a sub is borderline useless. Conventional land forces would be more useful.

You can basically go in full realpolitik and state that your vested business interests are what are causing you to send a small support contingent to what you can cast as an international policing action.

This does give me an awesome idea for part 3, though. We should let that one escalate to a nuclear level...

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Miklania
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Founded: Jun 06, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Miklania » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:07 pm

Menna Shuli wrote:
Miklania wrote:There's no need to sneak people in, we have complete sea control. Frigates are not all that helpful either, and a sub is borderline useless. Conventional land forces would be more useful.

You can basically go in full realpolitik and state that your vested business interests are what are causing you to send a small support contingent to what you can cast as an international policing action.

This does give me an awesome idea for part 3, though. We should let that one escalate to a nuclear level...

wat.

On Government: Checks and balances and ways of stopping things from happening are the only things that provide a stable government and a stable society.

On Democracy: It is a very neutral thing. It can be the best way of ensuring a reasonable government, or it can lead to genocide in the name of 'the people'.

On NSG: I believe the technical term for you people is "malformed conscience".

On society: Until reason and science become cool again, the "enlightened" who profess both but practice neither will continue to gleefully chip away at the bedrock of human society.

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Scantarbia
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Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Scantarbia » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:40 pm

Hold on, I kind of get confused here, what we do have and what we don't have? Is there any local guerilla/groups that have the same idealism as ours? Any people who also despised the government? Have we secured any airfields and what are their capabilities (what can land on them)? Have we secured any beach heads or ports from which I could land my troops? Have we secured any city or have any FOB's? Where are the conflict zones (do we have a static frontline or an asymetric warfare)?

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Thuzbekistan
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Posts: 2177
Founded: Dec 29, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Thuzbekistan » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:37 am

Menna Shuli wrote:
Miklania wrote:There's no need to sneak people in, we have complete sea control. Frigates are not all that helpful either, and a sub is borderline useless. Conventional land forces would be more useful.

You can basically go in full realpolitik and state that your vested business interests are what are causing you to send a small support contingent to what you can cast as an international policing action.

This does give me an awesome idea for part 3, though. We should let that one escalate to a nuclear level...

*executive order senses tingling*
Proud Member of The Western Isles, the Best RP region on NS.
An RP I'm Proud of: Orsandian Civil War
An INTJ, -A/-T

Economic Left/Right: -5.0
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.72

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Miklania
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Founded: Jun 06, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Miklania » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:45 am

Scantarbia how did you go from 3 frigates and a hospital ship, which I said was unnecessary, to half your navy?

On Government: Checks and balances and ways of stopping things from happening are the only things that provide a stable government and a stable society.

On Democracy: It is a very neutral thing. It can be the best way of ensuring a reasonable government, or it can lead to genocide in the name of 'the people'.

On NSG: I believe the technical term for you people is "malformed conscience".

On society: Until reason and science become cool again, the "enlightened" who profess both but practice neither will continue to gleefully chip away at the bedrock of human society.

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Scantarbia
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Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Scantarbia » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:51 am

Miklania wrote:Scantarbia how did you go from 3 frigates and a hospital ship, which I said was unnecessary, to half your navy?

Transporting necessary equipment to establish a proper field hospital and setting up a Scantarbian FOB on the ground to start putting manpower and guns for indirect fire support. Also to support the Orion Team's guerilla adventure.

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Menna Shuli
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Founded: Feb 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Menna Shuli » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:25 am

Scantarbia wrote:Hold on, I kind of get confused here, what we do have and what we don't have? Is there any local guerilla/groups that have the same idealism as ours? Any people who also despised the government? Have we secured any airfields and what are their capabilities (what can land on them)? Have we secured any beach heads or ports from which I could land my troops? Have we secured any city or have any FOB's? Where are the conflict zones (do we have a static frontline or an asymetric warfare)?

Alright, so:

San Javier is a nation of guerrillas. Between the 1970s and 2016 they were involved in a multi-party civil conflict involving communist forces, the ostensibly democratic but actually military controlled central government (which had little reach aside from military outside the Capitol), right wing paramilitaries, and the drug cartels. The central government, with foreign aid and an alliance with the paramilitaries, defeated the communist forces. The military of the central government and the paramilitaries merged and became the current, authoritarian military junta that controls the country, secretly working with the cartels for peace's sake. The country has been in its first peaceful period in nearly fifty years since then, with the first actual infrastructure expansions and whatnot. The people, almost universally, grew up in a state of constant war and chaos, and while they have a range of political philosophies (usually extreme ones) from the constant propaganda, they're basically seeing the first potential prosperity in their lifetimes. As such, the Peoples Freedom Coalition government has fairly widespread support, especially in the interior. Almost everyone alive on the island has some form of "military" experience because the past forty years has essentially been a defend-yourself-or-be-killed scenario. You could consider nearly any Javieran a potential guerilla, and they are all damn good at it.

The Mênnan invasion made a beachhead at the delta of the Rio Del Rosario and took Pueblo Ignacio, which is operating as their forward command and primary operations headquarters. It's a small village, but the Mênna and allies have constructed rough airfields, and the river is broad enough to be used to transport troops and supplies. Much of the southern coast is roughly controlled by invading forces, but the interior has been hard to penetrate because of ubiquitous jungle terrain and mountains. The main target for the invaders right now is Constantina, the center of Javieran oil production, but the Mênnan human wave strategy has been in effective, and the city is awful for invading forces. It's basically a stalemate, especially since the allies of the Mênna have been focused on maintenance of sea control and have been loath to fully commit more advanced tools to the war because of Mênnan behavior making the whole thing a political nightmare. Current lines are a spearhead towards Constantina from Pueblo Ignacio with a focus along the "highway" (really just a two Lane paved road as opposed to the unpaved tracks all over the place).

Forgot to mention: Javierans basically blame foreigners for their problems. The original war wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for meddling foreigners during the Cold War, and so even if many of the people have oppositional politics to one another, at this point they're more than willing to work together to throw the deuce at foreign intervention. The enemy of my enemy and all...

Our plan for the RP is to democratize the island, but leave it with a lot of resentment as a result. There wi eventually be a sequel RP where the communist government rises again, although this time backed by a general people's uprising against the foreign-backed democracy.
Last edited by Menna Shuli on Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Miklania
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Founded: Jun 06, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Miklania » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:06 pm

Menna, how would you like the battle for Constantina to end? My brigade is ready to go, and progress is going to be demanded from home, unseemly actions by Mennan warriors or not. This is the first war that we've entered that has not had overwhelming public support, and the government and society in general doesn't really know how to deal with that. Getting it over with as quickly as possible is going to be the top priority for us. The addition of more assets isn't off the table. That will be viewed by some as escalation of the unpopular conflict, but the half-panicking politicians wouldn't think of it that way when they authorize it. It would just be a way of making progress happen.

On Government: Checks and balances and ways of stopping things from happening are the only things that provide a stable government and a stable society.

On Democracy: It is a very neutral thing. It can be the best way of ensuring a reasonable government, or it can lead to genocide in the name of 'the people'.

On NSG: I believe the technical term for you people is "malformed conscience".

On society: Until reason and science become cool again, the "enlightened" who profess both but practice neither will continue to gleefully chip away at the bedrock of human society.

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Menna Shuli
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Posts: 461
Founded: Feb 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Menna Shuli » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:37 am

Miklania wrote:Menna, how would you like the battle for Constantina to end? My brigade is ready to go, and progress is going to be demanded from home, unseemly actions by Mennan warriors or not. This is the first war that we've entered that has not had overwhelming public support, and the government and society in general doesn't really know how to deal with that. Getting it over with as quickly as possible is going to be the top priority for us. The addition of more assets isn't off the table. That will be viewed by some as escalation of the unpopular conflict, but the half-panicking politicians wouldn't think of it that way when they authorize it. It would just be a way of making progress happen.

I'm down with however you want it to happen. With the bridges taken out, they're going to have trouble with supplies and reinforcements, although they have good stock on hand. I'll leave it to your tactical judgement and Sul will essentially go with the Miklanian plan.

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Scantarbia
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Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Scantarbia » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:52 am

Scantarbian troops will depart tomorrow, how long do you think until the fleet reach the AO?

I'm planning to bomb power stations on my first strike of the island after my troops have been transported to the FOB and established a firebase. To add, I think we need to expand the crude airstrip, my engineers will work on it immediately. We also bring power generation capabilities with Solaria engineers that were hired to do such things.

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Menna Shuli
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Founded: Feb 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Menna Shuli » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:17 am

Scantarbia wrote:Scantarbian troops will depart tomorrow, how long do you think until the fleet reach the AO?

I'm planning to bomb power stations on my first strike of the island after my troops have been transported to the FOB and established a firebase. To add, I think we need to expand the crude airstrip, my engineers will work on it immediately. We also bring power generation capabilities with Solaria engineers that were hired to do such things.

Bombing power stations is going to be a very limited way of damaging Javieran interests. The majority of their power isn't centralized: forty years of war meant that their power generation capacity was extraordinarily limited and unnetworked. Most towns and villages relied on gas generators and batteries if they had power at all. Only the capitol at Castillo Verde had even alright power, and that was a spotty affair. Read the post about Rodrigo the Climber and it gives a flash of insight into the infrastructure of this country: they were having child soldiers manually run telephone and telegraph lines through tree tops to establish communications. Outside of a few big communities, like Castillo Verde and Constantina, the country has been impossibly stagnated by a lifetime of constant combat.

Essentially the problem facing the invasion is that the country was so incredibly decentralized and backwards to begin with, the standard means of destabilizing it to cause surrender isn't possible. It's people are acclimatized to war and hardship, they hate most foreigners and they can't be hit in the normal ways. It makes the invasion an uphill battle, accompanied by the shitty leadership the Mênna have had.
Last edited by Menna Shuli on Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Scantarbia
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Postby Scantarbia » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:29 am

Let me guess, logistics are distributed via footmobiles through the jungle and factories are limited and mostly damaged? Bridges are in crumbling condition and most likely will succumb to the weight of a MBT?

On a second note, does my addition of a minor faction that despises the government lore-friendly?

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Menna Shuli
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Founded: Feb 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Menna Shuli » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:56 am

Scantarbia wrote:Let me guess, logistics are distributed via footmobiles through the jungle and factories are limited and mostly damaged? Bridges are in crumbling condition and most likely will succumb to the weight of a MBT?

On a second note, does my addition of a minor faction that despises the government lore-friendly?

For the most part. There are some areas where infrastructure is in better repair, especially closer to the capitol or along the Vancouvian built railline between Castillo Verde and Constantina, since the PFC has focused on expanding infrastructure and government services in the wake of the end of the civil conflict. It's why they generally have widespread support: for the first time in many people's memories, the soldiers rolling into town are building roads, putting up telephone lines and electric cables, distributing medication and building schools, as opposed to blowing stuff up.

The idea of an anti-government faction is somewhat lore-friendly: as stated in the explanation I gave a few posts ago, the island is a hodgepodge of extreme political opinions, only vaguely defined by specific regions. Not everyone views the civil war as over, especially communist groups, but their too diffuse and unconnected to be a threat (in this story), which is what Thuzbekistan is building in his stories focused on the town of Guadalapano. However, even Javieran groups that might dislike the government that has developed from the fusion of the ECSJ military and the paramilitarios are likely to hate foreigners way more. The civil conflict started, in their minds, due to the interference of Cold War era foreign states going ham with illegal bullshit on the island. Almost every Javieran, regardless of political agenda, agrees on one thing: it was the foreigners fault. Even their alliance with Wellsia or Balnik would be teeth-clenched at best.

So making a group willing to work to take down the government totally could happen, but don't expect them to be happy about being anywhere near foreign interlopers. The exception is Vancouvia: they built trains while everyone else was shooting, so they're good in the Javis' books.
Last edited by Menna Shuli on Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Menna Shuli
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Founded: Feb 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Menna Shuli » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:04 am

You could sum up the Javieran attitude to foreigners a bit like this: "We've been blowing up our own buildings, taking out our own infrastructure, and shooting our own people for nearly fifty years. You caused that. You think we'd hesitate for a second to set fire to our own homes or set traps every twenty feet of roadway if we thought it would even mildly inconvenience you? Our national animal is the guerilla and our earth may as well be charcoal for all the scorching we've done. Come at us if you think you're hard enough."

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Miklania
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Founded: Jun 06, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Miklania » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:37 pm

One option is to cut the Light Brigade loose and let them do their diet blitzkrieg thing across to a completely different objective, like Santa Anna/Puerto Polo or Rio Pena, eventually setting up a pincer of Castillo Verde.

On Government: Checks and balances and ways of stopping things from happening are the only things that provide a stable government and a stable society.

On Democracy: It is a very neutral thing. It can be the best way of ensuring a reasonable government, or it can lead to genocide in the name of 'the people'.

On NSG: I believe the technical term for you people is "malformed conscience".

On society: Until reason and science become cool again, the "enlightened" who profess both but practice neither will continue to gleefully chip away at the bedrock of human society.

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Scantarbia
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Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Scantarbia » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:30 pm

Clarifying some stuff while I work on an RP post for the San Javier Freedom Front.
1.) Does Castillo Verde have an airport? If it does, what is the condition of it?
2,) Is it normal to see armored vehicle randomly rolling down the street?
3.) What's the state of the road between Castillo Verde and Pachualla, is there any military checkpoints on the area?

If you want to see what I'm working on you can scroll to the end of the document

On the side note, how many troops you guys deployed for the conflict?
Last edited by Scantarbia on Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Menna Shuli
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Founded: Feb 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Menna Shuli » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 am

A quick post to keep things moving. Mik, if you want to write about the battle I left it open.

Scan, sorry, I forgot to answer.

1) Castillo Verde has a small, out of date airport. It's not great.
2) Depends on the street. Much of the city, especially outside of the old city core, is densely packed favelas. The wide enough streets it would be super common to see APCs, but in the narrower streets soldiers are pretty commonplace.
3) The road is fair between CV and Rio Pena, and becomes progressively worse the further from the capitol you get. Between Agustin and Pachualla, I think its probably shit.
4) I've deployed a lot of men, probably about 10,000 at this point, but its a meatgrinder.

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Miklania
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Founded: Jun 06, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Miklania » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:58 pm

If it's alright with you I'm going to have my brigade cut around to the east to take separate objectives, hopefully more rapidly than we have been.

As for Scantarbia's question I have one brigade from the 27th Infantry Division (Light) deployed: about 4,000 men. I'm mulling over the possibility of reinforcing them with a battalion of Ghurkas or Paramarines.

Let me also state that there has been little in the way of air strikes and as far as the Miklanian Air Force and Navy are concerned, they are in charge of the air war and would not take kindly to an interloper (as you are seen) conducting offensive flight ops, regardless of whose side you they are on.

On Government: Checks and balances and ways of stopping things from happening are the only things that provide a stable government and a stable society.

On Democracy: It is a very neutral thing. It can be the best way of ensuring a reasonable government, or it can lead to genocide in the name of 'the people'.

On NSG: I believe the technical term for you people is "malformed conscience".

On society: Until reason and science become cool again, the "enlightened" who profess both but practice neither will continue to gleefully chip away at the bedrock of human society.

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Scantarbia
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Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Scantarbia » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:28 pm

Alright, I'm planning to take my troops and swing westward to the Rio Pena and establish a stronghold there before pushing more to the west to make contact with SJFF on Pachualla.

In regards to my airforce not allowed to provide offensive air strikes, my aircraft, primarily F-35B operating from Mare Imbrium is tasked to provide Scantarbian troops on the ground with air support, if no one else is there to provide them with any.

On a second note, do the Javierans have any aircraft?

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Miklania
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Founded: Jun 06, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Miklania » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:12 pm

Scantarbia wrote:Alright, I'm planning to take my troops and swing westward to the Rio Pena and establish a stronghold there before pushing more to the west to make contact with SJFF on Pachualla.

In regards to my airforce not allowed to provide offensive air strikes, my aircraft, primarily F-35B operating from Mare Imbrium is tasked to provide Scantarbian troops on the ground with air support, if no one else is there to provide them with any.

On a second note, do the Javierans have any aircraft?

I didn't think you were sending large ground forces. Your response, especially to a war that cannot possibly be viewed in a good light by the rest of the world, seems wildly disproportionate to the interests that you are trying to protect: possible future infrastructure contracts.

The F-35s also remind me that I'd like to go over your military with you, OOC, before you get too heavily involved in combat.
Last edited by Miklania on Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

On Government: Checks and balances and ways of stopping things from happening are the only things that provide a stable government and a stable society.

On Democracy: It is a very neutral thing. It can be the best way of ensuring a reasonable government, or it can lead to genocide in the name of 'the people'.

On NSG: I believe the technical term for you people is "malformed conscience".

On society: Until reason and science become cool again, the "enlightened" who profess both but practice neither will continue to gleefully chip away at the bedrock of human society.

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Scantarbia
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Posts: 83
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Scantarbia » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 am

Miklania wrote:The F-35s also remind me that I'd like to go over your military with you, OOC, before you get too heavily involved in combat.

Sure, I already sent you a TG

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Wellsia
Envoy
 
Posts: 207
Founded: Jul 18, 2016
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Wellsia » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:36 pm

Talking about nuclear, let’s not forget the Wellsian Wayward bomb built by renegades from Charbagnia. The latest was there was still missing weapons grade plutonium. Refer to the Nation Divided RP.

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Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
Posts: 2177
Founded: Dec 29, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Thuzbekistan » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:45 am

Wellsia wrote:Talking about nuclear, let’s not forget the Wellsian Wayward bomb built by renegades from Charbagnia. The latest was there was still missing weapons grade plutonium. Refer to the Nation Divided RP.

Hmmm I wonder if that could have been sold to San Javier and used against Mennan forces?
Proud Member of The Western Isles, the Best RP region on NS.
An RP I'm Proud of: Orsandian Civil War
An INTJ, -A/-T

Economic Left/Right: -5.0
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.72

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Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
Posts: 2177
Founded: Dec 29, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Thuzbekistan » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:59 am

https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=35873175

So, to follow this up, Neg gave me the muslim guys to use as I would. I think I would have just absorbed some broken fighters from them after the various battles in the south to buff my numbers in the North. We set up a lightly armed, but good force in the northern Isles and secured a small port which we use to ferry refugees from there to our bases. These communists actually do what they're supposed to for once, setting up what is essentially a commune of refugees in the north. From there, they can gain international support by calling attention to the crisis.

In the wonderful game of politics, Thuzbekistan and friends jump in to help, even going so far to allow Miklanian vessels to stop and search relief cargo vessels given our interaction last time we met. It would put us in a much better light, give us a contact with the communists, and turn the whole "Thuzbekistan is evil" outlook to "well, I guess they did something good".
Proud Member of The Western Isles, the Best RP region on NS.
An RP I'm Proud of: Orsandian Civil War
An INTJ, -A/-T

Economic Left/Right: -5.0
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.72

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