The Azadistani - Munkchester War [OOC] [MT?] [Closed]

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

You stringing us along with nonanswers to clear and concise questions shows a lack of respect for our time.

I certainly do respect your time and appreciate your answers. I just haven't been able to show it, for which I am genuinely sorry. I have been very busy. You may not like that excuse but it's the only one I've got. And I am now trying to redress the balance now that I have more time to be (or at any rate try to be) more helpful.

So let's look at the E-wing first:

Question 1:
Where are your E-Wings flying?

I said beforehand that they were flying against the Neo Philipines, who pointed out that in his new revised OP the High Council's parliamentary meeting was secret, and that they were still a long way away, so I agreed this meant my post needed editing, and I said they were probably flying against someone else, but I hadn't had time to work out who. (You see, I had accurately answered the question - admittedly very badly and with decreasing precision - beforehand).

I have now looked through carefully and I think they would be flying against the Grand Co-operative Combine approaching from the same direction (the Indian Ocean - not that I care to use RL maps or definitions, as I've said before).

Since the Co-operative is currently also engaged in a coastal skirmish it seems reasonable the Commonwealth would have been tracking their ships with a view to war. If anyone fancies us going through the workings of satellite tracking that's fine by me?

Question 2:
Do you have stats for it?

"I have already revealed everything else that I have so far revealed" [in other words] No

I had in fact already revealed the concept, approximate size and shape, avionics, electronics, power, and the datalink. It's not everything, but come on, it's not nothing either (and to be honest it probably gives you a better idea of the plane, plus a way more interesting post, than me dumping a load of almost meaningless statistics on you). I'm currently still finalizing the design but my estimate is something not dissimilar to an elongated (sharper angle) B-2 bomber with a top speed of about Mach 1.3-1.4 and more probably the former. Can I help with anything else?

Question 4:
What kind of laser is it?

"A laser does not have to be high powered to signal like a torch" [in other words] It's not high powered

Why not just tell me what it is instead of what it isn't?

"Not high powered" is not a useful description. Either of us might think something was only high powered if it could carve up a ballistic missile, and if I replied soft powered you might think it was powerful enough to be used in defence but still capable of cutting through things like a weapon. That's why I told you what it is by reference to what it also wasn't, so that you knew it was too low powered to be a weapon. Sorry if that seemed circuitous and convoluted.

Question 5:
Why are you randomly shooting lasers around with your other planes nearby anyway? How are you not blinding your own pilots?

Who said it was random? One has to aim a laser beam to something which can pick it up. I haven't worked out all the possible ways it could work, but for an example the laser could detect where it is pointing, if, say, it hits a partial mirror so that half the beam bounces back; and it could fire data across in the few milliseconds when it's so perfectly aligned.

And just so I'm clear. Are you using lasers or radar for detection. It's not exactly clear

Radar, sorry.

Networks:

"I have already revealed everything else that I have so far revealed about the interconnectors in my other posts" [in other words] Nothing

I revealed (albeit unclearly) that the interconnectors existed at the borders of regions and that they could sift incoming traffic. (Not that I'd claim this allowed one to sift large numbers of requests, in view of the time required to do so - hence the shift to blocking everything without special permission).

Question 6
How exactly does the 'Electric Moat' prevent Beringian intelligence agents, who are using Austorian IP ranges, from communicating with Austorians and Azadistanis on foreign and indigenous networks, such as facebook?

If you'll forgive me, the fastest way for me to answer this question is when I get a reply to another: how do Beringian agents think they can get hold of Ausitorian IP ranges?

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Oh, and final, triple post - I have noticed that now I have some time, I am starting to be positively courteous and kind again, and looking at my earlier posts they are certainly not of the same standard. (It's really quite interesting to observe how my politeness is so proportional to the amount of time I have).

Therefore I offer my most humble apologies for the almost unpardonably brusque behaviour of my earlier, far busier, self. Sorry again. Things should be better now.

[Munkchester]

interesting that apparently I lost because I haven't invaded Azadistan

ignoring uh the whole thing where Azadistan achieved none of their aims while I'm occupying a chunk of their country

[Kyrusia]

[snip]

If another player wants nothing to do with you, that's the end of it. Period. Any presumption or continued attempts to insinuate otherwise will be treated as harassment and acted upon accordingly. How you reconcile this with your canon is up to you, but it will not involve a player that has expressed they want absolutely nothing to do with you.

[Sinkretichki Kombinat]

Then the attack would quite obviously persist to bear the desired effects. Strategic corrections bureau comes into play again, just as how that aid reserve solves problems.

For correction, only Falrieg, a member-state of the Sinkom, "crushed its republican government" two years ago - pretty difficult to quickly sweep through fifty-something different states in an uniformly violent revolution - and their involvement have not been formalized yet, besides agreement with that bleach ultimatum.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

Is this still open? I would like to do some murdering.

[Old Beringia]

Alright thank you for the other answers.

I revealed (albeit unclearly) that the interconnectors existed at the borders of regions and that they could sift incoming traffic. (Not that I'd claim this allowed one to sift large numbers of requests, in view of the time required to do so - hence the shift to blocking everything without special permission).

Right. Does that also go for all Ausitorian traffic?

If you'll forgive me, the fastest way for me to answer this question is when I get a reply to another: how do Beringian agents think they can get hold of Ausitorian IP ranges?

A simple whois search.

2. I'd like to carry out some attacks against Beringian shipping and possibly its warships, possibly as false-flag attacks. I'd like this to be however carried out with minimal OOC misunderstanding.

That would be permitted.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Forgive me for my delay in replying. I’m pretty fed up with SACTO/TECT’s harassment and bullying and it’s succeeded in driving me away for a week now, but courtesy - and integrity - demands that I eventually reply.

[snip]

If another player wants nothing to do with you, that's the end of it. Period. Any presumption or continued attempts to insinuate otherwise will be treated as harassment and acted upon accordingly. How you reconcile this with your canon is up to you, but it will not involve a player that has expressed they want absolutely nothing to do with you.

If you’ll forgive me, this is less clear than you want or I need. When a nation and/or its effects exists in Ausitoria’s canon, how, exactly, does that (a) stop another player from having nothing to do with me, or (b) involve a player? They can just ignore it. My saying something does not force them to have anything to do with it, nor force them to involve themselves.

In which case, you seem to be suggesting there’s no problem with what I’m currently doing as everyone knows I am not presuming the player has anything to do with me or involving them?

This would especially be the case if I issue an OOC disclaimer, e.g. in my signature, that it has nothing to do with nor involves nor has had involvement with, from, or too them?

Since you haven’t addressed this, and you probably don’t approve of my confused attempts to understand the confusing forum rules, I’ve also checked to see if we can resolve your rules by considering wider principles. To be precise, the principle of freedom to do anything which doesn't interfere with anyone else, and in particular International Law. Article 9 of TRIPs protects copyright, including Ausitoria’s history, while Morale Rights are widely protected as per Article 6bis of the Berne Convention and various national laws in various jurisdictions. These treaties and laws allow me to object to any forced alteration of my works in all the jurisdictions that I’m might care about. I object.

As a third point, I merely want to RP and to be allowed to keep the hard work I’ve put into joint RPs in my own historical record. I'm not trying to force anyone else to alter their own historical record. This does not seem an unreasonable request.

This all suggests that my decision not to force TECT to alter his canon is right, and neither should nor can he, nor any of you, alter mine?

This (Edit) is copied from my later post for convenience:

Shazbotdom has posted - and then deleted - something to the effect that TECT's name is their intellectual property.

With my sincere apologies, I'm afraid I ought to stamp that notion out.

For the purpose of this argument I'm leaving aside sue generis rights because life's too short (and most of the interest with them is regarding computers).

Nobody has any rights to a particular name except inasmuch as it is covered by a trademark. Trademarks exist to protect people carrying out trade under a name. Even supposing anybody here could make a case that they're carrying out trade under their nation's name, which would be an interesting interpretation of law, trademarks only protect against people trading under that name. People using that name is not enough - it's not like KFC or Donald Trump can stop a person from so much as calling them by their name.

As for rights to history, that's a creative work and is covered by copyright. All joint RPs are to an extent made by joint creators, but (in at least some jurisdictions, and I think international copyright law is pretty harmonized) co-authors are both free to exploit the work as they see fit. But again I'd like to take the example of KFC or Donald Trump. They can't stop me from using their name.

So to be honest, forbidding me from using TECT's name has no basis in IP law. And that's probably why it's not actually the point: Kyrusia said: "If another player wants nothing to do with you, that's the end of it. Period. Any presumption or continued attempts to insinuate otherwise will be treated as harassment and acted upon accordingly."

So the important question is what's harassment. I don't mean to harass anyone. So let's stop arguing about IP law - I only mentioned it to try to resolve the impasse about what is and isn't reasonable behaviour and what is and isn't harassment - and let's sit down and treat this harassment question as adults.

All I want is to be able to keep the history of the joint RPs I've RPed in. I put a lot of work into it, the events have seriously affected my nation's history and development, and I don't want to have to retcon it and rework pretty much my entire nation. (To be honest I wouldn't, I'd simply give up on nationstates - I haven't the time or inclination to make another nation).

I recognize that TECT doesn't want to have to go around checking forums in case I'm building up a picture that his own canon has anything to do with mine.

And I don't want to interfere with TECT's canon. Everyone's canon is their own affair. (And their own IP).

So the best solution - assuming we don't want to set a precedent whereby people can be honey-trapped into RPing and then have their history yanked brutally away from them - would seem to be for me (and future people in the same predicament) to make clear that my (or a future person's) mention of another party has nothing to do with nor involves nor has had involvement with, from, or too them; i.e., the other party has decided it has no effect on their canon.

Therefore please clarify.

(I doubt it’s very frequent that someone refers you to Article 6bis of the Berne Convention, but you have power here and that means you have a responsibility to consider unusual questions in detail. Please give a more detailed answer so we know where we all stand, and why, and how it complies with international treaties. You might even want to take advice from an IP specialist, although this bit of international copyright law is child’s play if you’re willing to get to grips with it yourself - a few day’s investigation should suffice).

---

I would also like to bring a complaint about bullying and harassment by TECT. I don’t know whether he knows the impact of what he’s been doing but this has been going on for years and I am fed up with it. I leave him free to RP how he likes, and he tries to stop me from doing the same. I suppose I should be flattered that he still cares what I write but he has used moderators to develop an art of bullying which wastes everybody’s time.

I don’t want to spend time arguing with moderators any more than moderators want to spend time arguing with someone familiar with international IP treaties. Could TECT please stop rules-lawyering everyone he doesn’t like into depression? In combination with the failure of moderation to it’s enough to make one want to jump off a bridge.

And that’s the reason I’ve just taken this break from these forums. It’s not good for nationstates that a person can use moderators as a weapon to try to deny the forum to reasonable people who merely want to RP and to be allowed to keep the hard work they put into their RPs in their own historical record. Nor is it good that I need to write such a detailed reply.

As a final note to the moderators who need to think about this, in view of the complexity and significance of these related matters, please take the time you need to consider a reply and discuss it together from time to time. If I can wait several months for a court I can wait several months for you. And please don’t just come back with a pithy response that you clearly haven’t had enough time to think through carefully.

[For administrative convenience, moderators can feel free to move this post to a new thread in moderation if they think it would be better].

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Is this still open? I would like to do some murdering.

Hi Ralkovia! Yes it is! You arrive, just like with Bluewell, just when Ausitoria is departing - free to clean up the mess and demonstrate why no country should ever ask Ausitoria to leave. Although you may meet your match in Azadistan...

I revealed (albeit unclearly) that the interconnectors existed at the borders of regions and that they could sift incoming traffic. (Not that I'd claim this allowed one to sift large numbers of requests, in view of the time required to do so - hence the shift to blocking everything without special permission).

Right. Does that also go for all Ausitorian traffic?

No, because that's the internal network. It doesn't even go for all international traffic, as the Decis Confederacy operates on the same system, which is why they're exercised, and considering a broader response.

If you'll forgive me, the fastest way for me to answer this question is when I get a reply to another: how do Beringian agents think they can get hold of Ausitorian IP ranges?

A simple whois search.

And do they think they can impersonate the ranges?

2. I'd like to carry out some attacks against Beringian shipping and possibly its warships, possibly as false-flag attacks. I'd like this to be however carried out with minimal OOC misunderstanding.

That would be permitted.

I'm inclined for us to keep this thing on something of a pause for the moment just in case Kyrusia or another mod gives us a pithy (or even detailed) quick response which has any impact on how Ausitorian canon can interact with SACTO technology (i.e. whether Ausitoria is being attacked by a number of warships which don't actually exist). In the meantime (because I can) I'm adding detail to previous posts.

I'm also inclined to think we should detach this second phase into a new topic - or perhaps an old one. I don't know whether the slaving alliance (et. al) intend to prosecute this war in detail, but if they do they would probably want to try to break up the Commonwealth, in which case would this thread be a suitable starting point?

If you do intend to prosecute the war in that sort of manner, I'll pull together the background of the current separatist states of the Aestorian Commonwealth so that you can attack those weak points. Or is this more likely to be a straightforward naval and cyberspace exchange?

[Rijk van Afrika]

can i play

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

can i play

Probably yes, and perhaps. I'm not in charge of the Azadistan thread, so probably yes, but that seems to be pretty much over and dead. Perhaps in that since I'm intending to move the rest to another thread, that would come under my control, in which case I can, and I will, enforce some proper quality control, in which case please fill out the following application form:

Code: Select all

1. What's your best RPing example?
2. Why do you want to join in?

[Rijk van Afrika]

1. What's your best RPing example? I invaded India.
2. Why do you want to join in? It looks fun.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Rijk van Africa - I'll consider.

---

Shazbotdom has posted - and then deleted - something to the effect that TECT's name is their intellectual property.

With my sincere apologies, I'm afraid I ought to stamp that notion out.

For the purpose of this argument I'm leaving aside sue generis rights because life's too short (and most of the interest with them is regarding computers).

Nobody has any rights to a particular name except inasmuch as it is covered by a trademark. Trademarks exist to protect people carrying out trade under a name. Even supposing anybody here could make a case that they're carrying out trade under their nation's name, which would be an interesting interpretation of law, trademarks only protect against people trading under that name. People using that name is not enough - it's not like KFC or Donald Trump can stop a person from so much as calling them by their name.

As for rights to history, that's a creative work and is covered by copyright. All joint RPs are to an extent made by joint creators, but (in at least some jurisdictions, and I think international copyright law is pretty harmonized) co-authors are both free to exploit the work as they see fit. But again I'd like to take the example of KFC or Donald Trump. They can't stop me from using their name.

So to be honest, forbidding me from using TECT's name has no basis in IP law. And that's probably why it's not actually the point: Kyrusia said: "If another player wants nothing to do with you, that's the end of it. Period. Any presumption or continued attempts to insinuate otherwise will be treated as harassment and acted upon accordingly."

So the important question is what's harassment. I don't mean to harass anyone. So let's stop arguing about IP law - I only mentioned it to try to resolve the impasse about what is and isn't reasonable behaviour and what is and isn't harassment - and let's sit down and treat this harassment question as adults.

All I want is to be able to keep the history of the joint RPs I've RPed in. I put a lot of work into it, the events have seriously affected my nation's history and development, and I don't want to have to retcon it and rework pretty much my entire nation. (To be honest I wouldn't, I'd simply give up on nationstates - I haven't the time or inclination to make another nation).

I recognize that TECT doesn't want to have to go around checking forums in case I'm building up a picture that his own canon has anything to do with mine.

And I don't want to interfere with TECT's canon. Everyone's canon is their own affair. (And their own IP).

So the best solution - assuming we don't want to set a precedent whereby people can be honey-trapped into RPing and then have their history yanked brutally away from them - would seem to be for me (and future people in the same predicament) to make clear that my (or a future person's) mention of another party has nothing to do with nor involves nor has had involvement with, from, or too them; i.e., the other party has decided it has no effect on their canon.

[New Aeyariss]

All I can suggest is that Ausitoria makes NPC nations named "Allgemeinlanden" "The Empire of Greater Yahon" or "Rouge State of Liberista" that collectively form an organization known as Sovereign Pact Against Commies (SPAC) which take the place of nations that want to ignore Ausitoria in Ausitoria's canon and then does with them whatever he wants.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

All I can suggest is that Ausitoria makes NPC nations named "Allgemeinlanden" "The Empire of Greater Yahon" or "Rouge State of Liberista" that collectively form an organization known as Sovereign Pact Against Commies (SPAC) which take the place of nations that want to ignore Ausitoria in Ausitoria's canon and then does with them whatever he wants.

Although that might seem to be a possible solution, that would miss the point: history, i.e. those joint RPs, has already happened for Ausitoria: they already have TECT etc. written in the posts on both sides. I shouldn't be forced to change my history for anybody's convenience any more than you should be forced to change your history for my convenience.

Nor should I have to go back through five hundred posts correcting all my previous posts any more than you should be forced to delete all the posts in every RP you've ever had with me. Nor should I be forced to create nations to try to keep my canon intact. And where would it stop? Would I have to change everything? Change the maps? Change the people? Rewrite the communiques? Rewrite your posts? Redesign your warships? I can't reinvent your entire nations so that they wouldn't be the same - it's too time consuming; and by that point I'm changing Ausitoria's history.

Therefore you must accept that for me to keep my own canon intact, I cannot start altering it.

And I can't copy your nations - copying your posts, your people, your national strategies, your communiques, your warships, and everything else, would infringe on your copyright. And even if you said I could copy everything about your nations, I shouldn't be forced to have two copies of nations in my canon, that's just too improbable. Besides which I'd then have the problem that that would change my canon as I'd be dealing with two sets of identical nations. And then I suppose you'd want me to go on copying the nations, until I have an infinite number of TECTs in Ausitoria's history? TECT1, TECT2, TECT3...

So, I shouldn't be unable to consider your nations in my canon even if you don't consider your nations in my canon: what I do with my canon is my own business. Just as what you do with yours is yours. Isn't that the fundamental law of RPing?

[New Aeyariss]

Although that would seem to be another possible solution, that would miss the point: history, i.e. those joint RPs, has already happened for Ausitoria: they already have TECT etc. written in the posts on both sides. I shouldn't be forced to change my history for anybody's convenience any more than you should be forced to change your history for my convenience.

Not a problem for you. Just assume everything that happened happened with those nations instead of us, and that all the "designs" were just copycats of ours.

what I do with my canon is my own business. Just as what you do with yours is yours. Isn't that the fundamental law of RPing?

Fundamental law of RPing is that RPing is a cooperative activity and that for something to take place there you must have a consensus of both parties. You, in this case, do not have ours. What you do with that is not our matter and up to you.

This is my last reply for you. I will not waste time on your antics any more.

Also I do want to note that I DO NOT, in any case, object to someone using my name in a conversation. I DO HOWEVER object to someone attempting to shove itself into my nation's canon despite my most sincere statement that IC wise, said RP was retconned and Ausitoria is now ignore canon for me.

Nifon and Ausitoria do not exist in the same universe, and that is final for me.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Although that would seem to be another possible solution, that would miss the point: history, i.e. those joint RPs, has already happened for Ausitoria: they already have TECT etc. written in the posts on both sides. I shouldn't be forced to change my history for anybody's convenience any more than you should be forced to change your history for my convenience.

Not a problem for you. Just assume everything that happened happened with those nations instead of us, and that all the "designs" were just copycats of ours.

If they're copycats of yours, that means your nations would still exist in my canon. So you're fine with your nations being in my canon, as long as there's more than one of you? Or would you like me to copy the original nation which had the design copycat, so that it's a copycat of a copycat, and then a copycat of a copycat of a copycat, etc. ad infinitum, and I end up with TECT1, TECT2, TECT3... an infinite number of you?

And I suppose you think having multiples of your nation in my canon wouldn't change my history?

And if you're fine with my copying your maps and designs, why aren't you fine with my copying your nation names? That's really inconsistent, and therefore unjustifiable.

Fundamental law of RPing is that RPing is a cooperative activity and that for something to take place there you must have a consensus of both parties.

But it did have your consensus at the time, and therefore you took part in a creative activity over which we are all joint owners. What you've just quoted is the fundamental law of RPing in the narrow, future sense, not the fundamental and more universal rule of history and canon.

This is my last reply for you. I will not waste time on your antics any more.

I'll believe that if you lot can stop stalking me for more than a year.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Just as a quick reflection, I think our reasons for not seeing eye to eye is that my focus is world-building while my opponent's focus is RPs.

This means I'm also concerned by the fact that if I RP with Yohannes but Yohannes is effected by SACTO (which it is), for my RPing to be consistent with Yohannes' canon, that means SACTO must exist in Ausitoria's, so that when Yohannes' effects Ausitoria (which it does, considerably), Ausitoria is indirectly effected by SACTO.

It simply wouldn't work if SACTO didn't exist in Ausitoria's canon, and it wouldn't be consistent with Yohannes' canon (nor fair) if I had to ask Yohannes to change all SACTO names to match any "copies" I'd made in every single RP with me.

However I can think of yet another alternative solution. If SACTO et al. think that copying nations with differing names is fine and doesn't matter, and yet for some reason they don't want me to be using the same name they do, why don't they copy their own nations/change their own names?

[Lamoni]

Both of you, knock it off until a ruling is made.

[Kyrusia]

[snip]

Site rules prohibit harassment. You are harassing TECT. Copyright laws have nothing to do with it. That said, I am now required to ask the following question, as per standard protocol. A simple "yes" or "no" answer is all that is required. Have you commenced or do you intend to commence any legal action against this site and/or its staff? Understand, depending upon your response, we will be forced to permanently ban you and your content from the entirety of NationStates pending a resolution. If you do not respond within twenty-four hours, we will be forced to assume your response is in the affirmative and act accordingly.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I have no such present intention, nor have I had, nor have I commenced any. I don’t think IP law has any direct bearing on the question of what constitutes harassment.

I also think you should revise your ‘standard protocol’. 24 hours is way too short, especially when nothing I have said suggests that I intend to commence any legal action against site or its staff. Why 24 hours?

Perhaps it would be best if I asked direct questions regarding what is and isn’t harassment. I want to try to ensure that whatever I do in the future isn’t harassment. Then TECT et al. won’t be inclined to harass me about whether I’m harassing him.

[1] Is mentioning another party in your artistic work when they do not want you to do so and when it has no impact on them harrassment of that other party in all cases? Does it depend on the context?
[2] Is your artistic work being affected by someone else’s artistic work harrassment of someone else? Does it make any difference if the effect is direct or indirect? (I would hope the answer to both is no - otherwise the idea of universal canon - and Ausitoria’s canon - will be a complete impossibility).

[Kyrusia]

I have no such present intention, nor have I had, nor have I commenced any. I don’t think IP law has any direct bearing on the question of what constitutes harassment.

Given your response has been "no," this matter is closed. This is not a discussion. You are not to harass other players, period. You have been duly informed of what about your behavior is unacceptable. If you are unable or unwilling to adhere to such, you are free to a) find another site to participate at, or b) accept that continued, prohibited behavior will carry the risk of punitive actions being taken against you, escalating as required.

Speaking of...

[OOC: Sorry again. On we go, until TECT or some other irritating muppet succeeds in spoiling the fun and depressing me away from nationstates again...]

For that (emphasis added) in another thread, you receive a *** 1-day ban for flaming/baiting. ***

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Pax Prosperitas - Gloria in Maere

---

I feel it would be advantageous for me to write this for general consideration. After this decision to abruptly bring to an end my freedom to express my dreams, in my despair I drafted a suicide note which I have now been deliberating over for four months. It is only because I prefer to improve nationstates (and perhaps save a life other than my own) with Ausitoria - and because of the very kind encouragement of Allanea, Ardoki, and my region-mates - that I am still here sharing this reality. Stealing a person’s history, especially when they have poured considerable time and effort into it, is not something that anyone should attempt lightly.

Moderators in particular have a duty of care to protect people from bullying, not to pile on pressure themselves. Of course moderation is difficult, and is hard to judge intent (especially when divided by a common language), and therefore I shall make no charge (unless this turns into a pattern).

But please be more careful. In an alternate universe I am aready dead. And other people may yet join me. And those who have vanished in the past may be gone for good. That is the weight of responsibility: people who believe in things, ‘mere’ concepts though they may be, are willing to die for them, and may have no reason to live without them.

I also understand there is an ugly simplicity for moderation to short-sightedly assume expressing a divergence in canon is harassment, whether that is the intention or not. Of course a better and more precise solution would be to recognize the reality of split canon and the possibility for any divergence to be respectful. Until then people like me shall have no alternative but to avoid forming deep canonical relationships unless they fully trust the other people involved. And nationstates will be worse for that restriction on RPing.

I also have no intention of discussing this - it is self-evident. Moderation will address it within the next few decades - hopefully before an actual suicide happens - and then people like me will be able to get back to normal RPing.

So until then, I would like to announce my new RPing standard, the full version of which is here:

Until moderation adopts the sensible attitude (and realizes the actual reality) that any canon can be split and politely disagreed and diverged, anybody who RPs with me must agree:

1. All mutually created canon may remain canon for any participating party irrespective of the desires of any other participating party.
2. Where any other party does not preserve that canon, any party in maintaining it shall make it clear that they respect this difference in canon, and shall allow the multiple canons to co-exist.

And that, as far as I am concerned, is that. Hopefully I will now be left in peace to contribute here once more. But if you are so foolish as to object, to the contents, or even its mere presentation, I will have no remaining alternatives I have not already exhausted except to finally publish my suicide note: the worlds we dream here are the best part of any reality, and I will not let them be taken from us.

Over my dead body.

Except of course if any moderator wishes to make a final response, which I will not reply too, I hereby ban everyone else from this thread - it is not a place to discuss anything as important as life and death.

If moderation thinks it suitable, they may lock this thread, although they may not remove this post without becoming accessories to suicide.

If any reader feels similarly suicidal, there are people who will help, e.g. here.

[Reploid Productions]

Thread locked per OP's request.

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