The Azadistani - Munkchester War [OOC] [MT?] [Closed]

[Rhinocera]

You kidnapped a national leader after offering sanctuary, then threw them in a volcano... that’s a cruddy plot to a cruddy action movie right there.

[Sinkretichki Kombinat]

You kidnapped a national leader after offering sanctuary, then threw them in a volcano... that’s a cruddy plot to a cruddy action movie right there.

second part again would not have happened had that nanoparticle thing not came in, and the first part is completely reasonable given that the two players were both going along with it

[Veliki Koperativni Kombinat]

You kidnapped a national leader after offering sanctuary, then threw them in a volcano... that’s a cruddy plot to a cruddy action movie right there.

Don't forget the part where they deposit $40 trillion USD to us in exchange for a fake head stuffed with explosives which kills their leader! Thankfully I have found a bank to legitimize the $40 trillion the Azadistanis have given us.

[Rhinocera]

I never said that the plot armor wasn’t shoddy rping (no offense L&A), just that it looked like plot armor. L&A and I have been rping since I started Rping on NS, but plot armor is plot armor. The catching mitt drone is a ridiculous response to an equally ridiculous series of posts.

Actually I think it's only stretching the boundaries. This morning I ran the calculation and it would need an acceleration of about 150 g over 3 km to get it to Mach 10. That's a lot, but it might be possible for a small enough drone.

I mean, we could retcon it, but if we do we're going to need to think of another IC way to avoid having someone's major character thrown into a volcano without their OOC permission...?

Not overly, but a big physics defying blimp which dodges nukes is.

Airships do not defy physics and if you don't like it the door is that way.

I haven’t done any calculations, nor do I intend to. There’s no denying the hilarity and ridiculousness of the whole exchange though, even if it is feasible according to the laws of physics.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Actually I think it's only stretching the boundaries. This morning I ran the calculation and it would need an acceleration of about 150 g over 3 km to get it to Mach 10. That's a lot, but it might be possible.

I mean, we could retcon it, but if we do we're going to need to think of another IC way to avoid having someone's major character thrown into a volcano without their OOC permission...?

The exchange between VKK and Azadistan was in fact proceeding voluntarily until you barged in with the metagaming-leaning communication about nanoparticles.

Azadistan is part of the Aestorian Commonwealth. They signed a treaty saying so and it's the OP here. If you don't like that, the door is still that way.

Anyway, I never said the nanoparticles business was true. As it happens to be a field I'm more familiar with, I'm actually fairly certain it's borderline impossible. That was why I was going to have the Aestorian Commonwealth drop snuff by stealth drone in an attempt to pretend that sneezing was the first symptom, so that they could have exchanged the antidote for the Maharani.

(To be honest, I actually prefer that plotline, it's far more amusing)!

[Veliki Koperativni Kombinat]

You kidnapped a national leader after offering sanctuary, then threw them in a volcano... that’s a cruddy plot to a cruddy action movie right there.

second part again would not have happened had that nanoparticle thing not came in, and the first part is completely reasonable given that the two players were both going along with it

Yes.

If 2ria hadn't pulled off the nano particle deception thing she could have been allowed to live instead of being thrown into a volcano, but I did that to ensure the nanoparticle virus thing wouldn't destroy my capital.

[Sinkretichki Kombinat]

The exchange between VKK and Azadistan was in fact proceeding voluntarily until you barged in with the metagaming-leaning communication about nanoparticles.

Azadistan is part of the Aestorian Commonwealth. They signed a treaty saying so and it's the OP here. If you don't like that, the door is still that way.

Anyway, I never said the nanoparticles business was true. As it happens to be a field I'm more familiar with, I'm actually fairly certain it's borderline impossible. That was why I was going to have the Aestorian Commonwealth drop snuff by stealth drone in an attempt to pretend that sneezing was the first symptom, so that they could have exchanged the antidote for the Maharani.

(To be honest, I actually prefer that plotline, it's far more amusing)!

You pulled that plotline off, VKK responded with what he thought was appropriate, simple.

[Rhinocera]

You kidnapped a national leader after offering sanctuary, then threw them in a volcano... that’s a cruddy plot to a cruddy action movie right there.

Don't forget the part where they deposit $40 trillion USD to us in exchange for a fake head stuffed with explosives which kills their leader! Thankfully I have found a bank to legitimize the $40 trillion the Azadistanis have given us.

The only way Azadistan gave you 40 trillion is if they printed it that day, and if that’s the case a billion dollars can probably buy you a solid cup of coffee (the wonders of hyperinflation), so you can enjoy Starbucks for a few weeks.

[Mandakhstan]

I never said that the plot armor wasn’t shoddy rping (no offense L&A), just that it looked like plot armor. L&A and I have been rping since I started Rping on NS, but plot armor is plot armor. The catching mitt drone is a ridiculous response to an equally ridiculous series of posts.

Actually I think it's only stretching the boundaries. This morning I ran the calculation and it would need an acceleration of about 150 g over 3 km to get it to Mach 10. That's a lot, but it might be possible for a small enough drone.

I mean, we could retcon it, but if we do we're going to need to think of another IC way to avoid having someone's major character thrown into a volcano without their OOC permission...?

Not overly, but a big physics defying blimp which dodges nukes is.

Airships do not defy physics and if you don't like it the door is that way.

Well, we've already gotten into the antimatter issue which I won't repeat, but there's also materials strength issues with your design, given that it's under a lot of pressure, an issue only exacerbated by its overcompensatory length. Assuming that the pressure problem is then solved, there's the issue of it remaining agile enough to casually dodge missiles, despite the fact that mass increases greatly in comparison to length due to the square cube law. Of course, you'll just wave me off with some business about how I shouldn't be assuming things, which is ironic considering that you assume you have the right to magically retcon other people's attacks, be they nuclear or otherwise. I'll be sleeping now. If you're still fixated on doors during that time, here's one suited to the silliness you're bandying about.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

second part again would not have happened had that nanoparticle thing not came in, and the first part is completely reasonable given that the two players were both going along with it

Yes.

If 2ria hadn't pulled off the nano particle deception thing she could have been allowed to live instead of being thrown into a volcano, but I did that to ensure the nanoparticle virus thing wouldn't destroy my capital.

Why wasn't your country suspicious about whether the nanoparticles existed or could work? Or, if you thought it was true, why not just give back the Maharani? Either of those two options are far more reasonable and have far more common sense. They'd also mean we weren't having to argue about whether flying drones around at Mach 10 was a strictly realistic response.

It's only because you chose the third, ridiculous option of throwing a major character into a volcano that I've made Ausitoria take similarly drastic measures to stop that from happening.

And I'm pleased to see that Rhinocera's understanding of modern economics is spot-on.

[Veliki Koperativni Kombinat]

Don't forget the part where they deposit $40 trillion USD to us in exchange for a fake head stuffed with explosives which kills their leader! Thankfully I have found a bank to legitimize the $40 trillion the Azadistanis have given us.

The only way Azadistan gave you 40 trillion is if they printed it that day, and if that’s the case a billion dollars can probably buy you a solid cup of coffee (the wonders of hyperinflation), so you can enjoy Starbucks for a few weeks.

I'm not sure if you even read the thread at all at this point. It was clearly stated that Azadistan transferred $40 trillion in NSD/USD. You cannot just devalue another nation's currency, let alone NSD. If Azadistan really printed all those NSD, then I'd say the world economy is fucked.

[Veliki Koperativni Kombinat]

Yes.

If 2ria hadn't pulled off the nano particle deception thing she could have been allowed to live instead of being thrown into a volcano, but I did that to ensure the nanoparticle virus thing wouldn't destroy my capital.

Why wasn't your country suspicious about whether the nanoparticles existed or could work? Or, if you thought it was true, why not just give back the Maharani? Either of those two options are far more reasonable and have far more common sense. They'd also mean we weren't having to argue about whether flying drones around at Mach 10 was a strictly realistic response.

It's only because you chose the third, ridiculous option of throwing a major character into a volcano that I've made Ausitoria take similarly drastic measures to stop that from happening.

And I'm pleased to see that Rhinocera's understanding of modern economics is spot-on.

We thought it was true, and thus we knew that to activate such a thing you would require nanites which couldn't be hardened against EMPs and thus we used an EPFCG to hopefully disable any such nanites and render the virus useless, but we threw her into a volcano anyway just to make sure the virus would be eradicated even if it existed.

[Rhinocera]

The only way Azadistan gave you 40 trillion is if they printed it that day, and if that’s the case a billion dollars can probably buy you a solid cup of coffee (the wonders of hyperinflation), so you can enjoy Starbucks for a few weeks.

I'm not sure if you even read the thread at all at this point. It was clearly stated that Azadistan transferred $40 trillion in NSD/USD. You cannot just devalue another nation's currency, let alone NSD. If Azadistan really printed all those NSD, then I'd say the world economy is fucked.

Their GDP is 7 trillion, they did not pay you 40 trillion and not ruin the value of the currency. Also, the NSD and the USD are two very different currencies. One is a fake currency recognized as the standard currency on nationstates, and the other is a real life currency for a real life country. You either got a bunch of kindling, or a bunch of fake money. Unless your going camping or playing monopoly, your out of luck.

[Sinkretichki Kombinat]

I'm not sure if you even read the thread at all at this point. It was clearly stated that Azadistan transferred $40 trillion in NSD/USD. You cannot just devalue another nation's currency, let alone NSD. If Azadistan really printed all those NSD, then I'd say the world economy is fucked.

Their GDP is 7 trillion, they did not pay you 40 trillion and not ruin the value of the currency. Also, the NSD and the USD are two very different currencies. One is a fake currency recognized as the standard currency on nationstates, and the other is a real life currency for a real life country. You either got a bunch of kindling, or a bunch of fake money. Unless your going camping or playing monopoly, your out of luck.

That can only mean that Azadistan has debt and quite a serious one at that.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Airships do not defy physics and if you don't like it the door is that way.

Well, we've already gotten into the antimatter issue which I won't repeat, but there's also materials strength issues with your design, given that it's under a lot of pressure, an issue only exacerbated by its overcompensatory length. Assuming that the pressure problem is then solved, there's the issue of it remaining agile enough to casually dodge missiles, despite the fact that mass increases greatly in comparison to length due to the square cube law. Of course, you'll just wave me off with some business about how I shouldn't be assuming things

Absolutely, because when you assume you make an ass out of you and me. First, it isn't dodging missiles any more than an airport dodges missiles. This craft is such a monolith that neither Ausitoria or I would trust it within 5,000 kilometers of a country with anti-air defences. It's best defence is being at a big distance. Second, a variable internal pressure, which can not only vary with the atmosphere around it but can also vary (by differential pumping) within itself, means that a partial vacuum craft can have no imbalance of forces on the surface of the craft and yet still have a buoyancy if the centre of the craft has a lower density. That means a nasty looking equation taking into account hoop stress becomes the relatively straightforward equation of exactly how much time is it going to take for the pumps to work?

I'm not sure if you even read the thread at all at this point. It was clearly stated that Azadistan transferred $40 trillion in NSD/USD. You cannot just devalue another nation's currency, let alone NSD. If Azadistan really printed all those NSD, then I'd say the world economy is fucked.

Their GDP is 7 trillion, they did not pay you 40 trillion and not ruin the value of the currency. Also, the NSD and the USD are two very different currencies. One is a fake currency recognized as the standard currency on nationstates, and the other is a real life currency for a real life country. You either got a bunch of kindling, or a bunch of fake money. Unless your going camping or playing monopoly, your out of luck.

Quite. If a country can't pay 40 trillion you can't have 40 trillion. There's a saying in finance: if you owe the bank a million, you're in trouble. If you owe the bank a billion, the bank's in trouble.

And since the money transfer was not authorized by the Aestorian Commonwealth, you're not getting the money. You may call it a default, but Aestoria doesn't.

[Veliki Koperativni Kombinat]

I'm not sure if you even read the thread at all at this point. It was clearly stated that Azadistan transferred $40 trillion in NSD/USD. You cannot just devalue another nation's currency, let alone NSD. If Azadistan really printed all those NSD, then I'd say the world economy is fucked.

Their GDP is 7 trillion, they did not pay you 40 trillion and not ruin the value of the currency. Also, the NSD and the USD are two very different currencies. One is a fake currency recognized as the standard currency on nationstates, and the other is a real life currency for a real life country. You either got a bunch of kindling, or a bunch of fake money. Unless your going camping or playing monopoly, your out of luck.

Where did I ever state that USD = United States Dollar?

I'm referring to the other name for NSD, Universal Standard Dollar.

[Rhinocera]

Their GDP is 7 trillion, they did not pay you 40 trillion and not ruin the value of the currency. Also, the NSD and the USD are two very different currencies. One is a fake currency recognized as the standard currency on nationstates, and the other is a real life currency for a real life country. You either got a bunch of kindling, or a bunch of fake money. Unless your going camping or playing monopoly, your out of luck.

Where did I ever state that USD = United States Dollar?

I'm referring to the other name for NSD, Universal Standard Dollar.

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen anyone use the universal standard dollar, that’s on me. I stand by my statement however, and saying you got cash, your sitting on a massive stash of Monopoly money.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Their GDP is 7 trillion, they did not pay you 40 trillion and not ruin the value of the currency. Also, the NSD and the USD are two very different currencies. One is a fake currency recognized as the standard currency on nationstates, and the other is a real life currency for a real life country. You either got a bunch of kindling, or a bunch of fake money. Unless your going camping or playing monopoly, your out of luck.

Where did I ever state that USD = United States Dollar?

I'm referring to the other name for NSD, Universal Standard Dollar.

Sorry to break it to you, but the dollar is an accounting standard. If everybody could go around trying to print it (which I expect they do) the dollar would be worthless if they were successful.

The dollar is a unit of exchange between national currencies. If you have $40 trillion worth of Azadistan's currency the banknotes have been cancelled by the Aestorian Commonwealth. If you have a promise to pay $40 trillion worth it won't be honoured. If you have a promise to pay $40 trillion it won't be honoured. And if you have $40 trillion in cash, it's either fake or it doesn't exist as Azadistan could never have got hold of it.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

If your nation wants to make a claim that it should be getting $40 trillion from the Azadistani Commonwealth, the International Arbitration Court will hear your case. On purely contractual grounds, your nation would have a good case... until it was pointed out that the wrong head was provided and therefore the contract was null and void.

[Veliki Koperativni Kombinat]

Well, we've already gotten into the antimatter issue which I won't repeat, but there's also materials strength issues with your design, given that it's under a lot of pressure, an issue only exacerbated by its overcompensatory length. Assuming that the pressure problem is then solved, there's the issue of it remaining agile enough to casually dodge missiles, despite the fact that mass increases greatly in comparison to length due to the square cube law. Of course, you'll just wave me off with some business about how I shouldn't be assuming things

Absolutely, because when you assume you make an ass out of you and me. First, it isn't dodging missiles any more than an airport dodges missiles. This craft is such a monolith that neither Ausitoria or I would trust it within 5,000 kilometers of a country with anti-air defences. It's best defence is being at a big distance. Second, a variable internal pressure, which can not only vary with the atmosphere around it but can also vary (by differential pumping) within itself, means that a partial vacuum craft can have no imbalance of forces on the surface of the craft and yet still have a buoyancy if the centre of the craft has a lower density. That means a nasty looking equation taking into account hoop stress becomes the relatively straightforward equation of exactly how much time is it going to take for the pumps to work?

Their GDP is 7 trillion, they did not pay you 40 trillion and not ruin the value of the currency. Also, the NSD and the USD are two very different currencies. One is a fake currency recognized as the standard currency on nationstates, and the other is a real life currency for a real life country. You either got a bunch of kindling, or a bunch of fake money. Unless your going camping or playing monopoly, your out of luck.

Quite. If a country can't pay 40 trillion you can't have 40 trillion. There's a saying in finance: if you owe the bank a million, you're in trouble. If you owe the bank a billion, the bank's in trouble.

And since the money transfer was not authorized by the Aestorian Commonwealth, you're not getting the money. You may call it a default, but Aestoria doesn't.

It was absolutely stupid for Azadistan to do such a thing, but alas they did. Somehow, they sent over $40 trillion in cash. Azadistan spent it even if he couldn't, and if he couldn't it was godmodding/wanking, and unless he calls it back, it's in stone. I don't know about how you'll handle this, but I'm imagining a variety of ways from it totally being retcon to his nation being ruined as the government spent probably decades... more like centuries in his case, budgets to buy a head.

[Rhinocera]

Absolutely, because when you assume you make an ass out of you and me. First, it isn't dodging missiles any more than an airport dodges missiles. This craft is such a monolith that neither Ausitoria or I would trust it within 5,000 kilometers of a country with anti-air defences. It's best defence is being at a big distance. Second, a variable internal pressure, which can not only vary with the atmosphere around it but can also vary (by differential pumping) within itself, means that a partial vacuum craft can have no imbalance of forces on the surface of the craft and yet still have a buoyancy if the centre of the craft has a lower density. That means a nasty looking equation taking into account hoop stress becomes the relatively straightforward equation of exactly how much time is it going to take for the pumps to work?


Quite. If a country can't pay 40 trillion you can't have 40 trillion. There's a saying in finance: if you owe the bank a million, you're in trouble. If you owe the bank a billion, the bank's in trouble.

And since the money transfer was not authorized by the Aestorian Commonwealth, you're not getting the money. You may call it a default, but Aestoria doesn't.

It was absolutely stupid for Azadistan to do such a thing, but alas they did. Somehow, they sent over $40 trillion in cash. Azadistan spent it even if he couldn't, and if he couldn't it was godmodding/wanking, and unless he calls it back, it's in stone. I don't know about how you'll handle this, but I'm imagining a variety of ways from it totally being retcon to his nation being ruined as the government spent probably decades... more like centuries in his case, budgets to buy a head.

They couldn’t pay you 40 trillion in viable currency unless they had a financial backer. That’s a fact. You either have the largest collection of counterfeit cash ever assembled, or worthless cash that got printed so fast there is no longer any ink in Azadistan.

[Radimostan]

Shouldn't you ask Azadistan how they got this money and not the one who received them?

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

It's easier this way.

Now, I have a few questions. First, Beringia, wouldn't your high-flying aircraft have an appreciable heat signature from travelling so fast, and wouldn't the sonic boom be appreciable when it passed?

Second, has your ship previously registered that it's in trouble? Has it arranged anywhere in particular to dock?

Third, how is any of this supposed hacking meant to work when to the best of my knowledge none of your nations could have any familiarity with the (independent) operating systems of Aestorian computers and networks? Especially how on earth do you think you can just write "I've latched onto one of their banks through a fake account, draining several others"? This seems little better than posting "I drive my tanks through your defenses into the capital", so I'm bringing out the old ignore can(n)on.

[Sinkretichki Kombinat]

Third, how is any of this supposed hacking meant to work when to the best of my knowledge none of your nations could have any familiarity with the (independent) operating systems of Aestorian computers and networks? Especially how on earth do you think you can just write "I've latched onto one of their banks through a fake account, draining several others"? This seems little better than posting "I drive my tanks through your defenses into the capital", so I'm bringing out the old ignore can(n)on.

Not sure whose post this refers to, but it's not unreasonable to assume that any flaws of your computer systems would be knowledgeable via internet search given the interconnected nature of the world. Even if you do manage to avoid design pitfalls of hardwares that create some notable RL security flaws it's unlikely they're completely perfect.

In addition to this I would like to inquire on how Exodia's railgun attack could be voided, atmosphere provides relatively little shielding for such a weapon, and even though his particular weapon is admittedly rather slow at the same time you did also admit that the Delta was rather fragile.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Third, how is any of this supposed hacking meant to work when to the best of my knowledge none of your nations could have any familiarity with the (independent) operating systems of Aestorian computers and networks? Especially how on earth do you think you can just write "I've latched onto one of their banks through a fake account, draining several others"? This seems little better than posting "I drive my tanks through your defenses into the capital", so I'm bringing out the old ignore can(n)on.

Not sure whose post this refers to, but it's not unreasonable to assume that any flaws of your computer systems would be knowledgeable via internet search given the interconnected nature of the world. Even if you do manage to avoid design pitfalls of hardwares that create some notable RL security flaws it's unlikely they're completely perfect.

It is not unreasonable to assume that any flaws knowledgeable via internet search would be known to the people whose duty it was to fix them.

This is especially the case as the Commonwealth, unlike other RL countries I could name and shame, is more interested in ensuring that its companies fix problems in defence than in keeping the problems open so that they can exploit them offensively.

In addition to this I would like to inquire on how Exodia's railgun attack could be voided, atmosphere provides relatively little shielding for such a weapon, and even though his particular weapon is admittedly rather slow at the same time you did also admit that the Delta was rather fragile.

8000 km is a very long distance for a railgun to fire over. I've never heard of a gun with anything like that sort of range?