NationStates

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:

Republic of Altos and Stratis wrote:Qaidi would you mind if I secured some islands in the med from the QPSR?

I doubt he has islands. I consider the Med the Mare Nostrum of the European Defence Association so you occupying even Lampedusa would be a casus belli. <.<

What is this European Defence Association you speak of?

Republic of Altos and Stratis wrote:

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:I doubt he has islands. I consider the Med the Mare Nostrum of the European Defence Association so you occupying even Lampedusa would be a casus belli. <.<

What is this European Defence Association you speak of?

Me, Karlsland, Britannia, Hispania, Italy and Gallia. <.<

I'll be posting some long range strikes on Tunisia today.

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:

Republic of Altos and Stratis wrote:Qaidi would you mind if I secured some islands in the med from the QPSR?

I doubt he has islands. I consider the Med the Mare Nostrum of the European Defence Association so you occupying even Lampedusa would be a casus belli. <.<

Fine I will only seize Sharqi Island.
United States of Devonta do you want in on this?

Republic of Altos and Stratis wrote:

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:I doubt he has islands. I consider the Med the Mare Nostrum of the European Defence Association so you occupying even Lampedusa would be a casus belli. <.<

Fine I will only seize Sharqi Island.
United States of Devonta do you want in on this?

The QPSR controls islands?

And maybe.

United States of Devonta wrote:

Republic of Altos and Stratis wrote:Fine I will only seize Sharqi Island.
United States of Devonta do you want in on this?

The QPSR controls islands?

And maybe.

Well its only 14km off of the city of Sfax so I would assume they control it

Republic of Altos and Stratis wrote:

United States of Devonta wrote:
The QPSR controls islands?

And maybe.

Well its only 14km off of the city of Sfax so I would assume they control it

Alright. An attack sounds good. How many troops would be on it if any Qaidi? It has a pop. of 15k in real life.

Meanwhile I’ve conducted some research to back up my general suspicions about the air defense systems used by the QPRA in Tunis.

Here’s what I found out:

All of the weapons systems QPRA uses are gun-based (although some of them can mount a MANPAD coaxially, this is not very effective). They however differ a lot in capability – some are essentially primitive 1940s machineguns, others are modern-day C-RAM systems and could likely take down a bomb, missile, or even some artillery shells in flight with no problem. It doesn’t appear that the QPRA has any dedicated early warning radar installations (again, Qaidi will correct me if I am wrong), but the air defense systems themselves have their own targeting and tracking radar. This means they’re likely to detect any bombs or missiles once they come within about ten miles from the air defense systems, and shoot them down. No doubt if QPRA are well-trained they could have the less sophisticated systems fire based on guidance from the more sophisticated ones, or at least fire visually at oncoming missiles/bombs once the alarm had been sounded. The presence of the high-end systems therefore will make Qaidi’s air defences a significant threat to anything that comes within the envelope of about 4 km horizontally and 3-4 km vertically from where these individual guns are parked.

However, there are also (quite obvious) disadvantages. One is obviously the fact that they can’t be meaningfully hidden when firing (because obviously radar needs to be on to aim or even to become aware that you’re being shot at). Additionally if they want to be able to talk to other guns (to, say, provide aiming assistance to less sophisticated guns) they probably need radio or cable comms.

[One thing QPRA could do ithe same thing that ISIS did with some effect – make sheet metal mock-ups of their air defense systems, which (especially if you added a heat source like a running engine) could be mistaken by passing aircraft for a real thing.)

Another significant problem, and it can’t really be remedied, is that gun-armed air defense just can’t reach very high up in the air. An aircraft flying at 5-6 kilometers would be basically impossible to harm with these armaments, and QPRA would have to put its air force into action, which I understand has some quite advanced aircraft. Unfortunately I’m not sure how it would do so without radar stations telling them when to take off. Even if they do have something in Tunis (do they, Qaidi?) warning times would be horribly short. Possibly some are just kept on patrol, but that would come with its own disadvantages, since fighter jet engines are extremely short lived, and without a real military to resupply you with parts and engines you will probably just destroy your own air fleet just for flying it about for too many hours.

So for Qaidi:

1. Do the forces in Tunis have significant radar assets, beyond those that came with their air defense guns? If not, how do they detect enemy aircraft, especially stealthy ones?
2. How many fighter planes do they have defending the city?

Allanea wrote:Meanwhile I’ve conducted some research to back up my general suspicions about the air defense systems used by the QPRA in Tunis.

Here’s what I found out:

All of the weapons systems QPRA uses are gun-based (although some of them can mount a MANPAD coaxially, this is not very effective). They however differ a lot in capability – some are essentially primitive 1940s machineguns, others are modern-day C-RAM systems and could likely take down a bomb, missile, or even some artillery shells in flight with no problem. It doesn’t appear that the QPRA has any dedicated early warning radar installations (again, Qaidi will correct me if I am wrong), but the air defense systems themselves have their own targeting and tracking radar. This means they’re likely to detect any bombs or missiles once they come within about ten miles from the air defense systems, and shoot them down. No doubt if QPRA are well-trained they could have the less sophisticated systems fire based on guidance from the more sophisticated ones, or at least fire visually at oncoming missiles/bombs once the alarm had been sounded. The presence of the high-end systems therefore will make Qaidi’s air defences a significant threat to anything that comes within the envelope of about 4 km horizontally and 3-4 km vertically from where these individual guns are parked.

However, there are also (quite obvious) disadvantages. One is obviously the fact that they can’t be meaningfully hidden when firing (because obviously radar needs to be on to aim or even to become aware that you’re being shot at). Additionally if they want to be able to talk to other guns (to, say, provide aiming assistance to less sophisticated guns) they probably need radio or cable comms.

[One thing QPRA could do ithe same thing that ISIS did with some effect – make sheet metal mock-ups of their air defense systems, which (especially if you added a heat source like a running engine) could be mistaken by passing aircraft for a real thing.)

Another significant problem, and it can’t really be remedied, is that gun-armed air defense just can’t reach very high up in the air. An aircraft flying at 5-6 kilometers would be basically impossible to harm with these armaments, and QPRA would have to put its air force into action, which I understand has some quite advanced aircraft. Unfortunately I’m not sure how it would do so without radar stations telling them when to take off. Even if they do have something in Tunis (do they, Qaidi?) warning times would be horribly short. Possibly some are just kept on patrol, but that would come with its own disadvantages, since fighter jet engines are extremely short lived, and without a real military to resupply you with parts and engines you will probably just destroy your own air fleet just for flying it about for too many hours.

So for Qaidi:

1. Do the forces in Tunis have significant radar assets, beyond those that came with their air defense guns? If not, how do they detect enemy aircraft, especially stealthy ones?
2. How many fighter planes do they have defending the city?

Not to mention those targeting radars would be troubled if they had to attack stealthy super-sonic missiles or even sub-sonic missiles, especially, ones in mass numbers. The radar would only have seconds to detect and fire from its short range. Odds are only a small number, if any, would get shot down. Especially when not being operated by well-trained personnel I assume.

If you're firing 'stealth cruise missiles' in 'mass numbers' something has gone wrong.

On the other hand, as I understand, QPRA personnel in Tunis are reasonably well-trained and a lot of the aiming of systems like this is partly or fully automated, especially the C-RAM stuff.

But there are simple and very lo-tec solutions to this.

Allanea wrote:If you're firing 'stealth cruise missiles' in 'mass numbers' something has gone wrong.

On the other hand, as I understand, QPRA personnel in Tunis are reasonably well-trained and a lot of the aiming of systems like this is partly or fully automated, especially the C-RAM stuff.

But there are simple and very lo-tec solutions to this.

Not really. It really depends how many targets you have.

Yes, even with automation, it takes time to detect, target, and fire. It's not like the movies. Its why supersonic missiles are so effective against CIWS. Also, coupled with a heavy EW environment it worse. Or a missile that can self-maneuver.

United States of Devonta wrote:

Allanea wrote:If you're firing 'stealth cruise missiles' in 'mass numbers' something has gone wrong.

On the other hand, as I understand, QPRA personnel in Tunis are reasonably well-trained and a lot of the aiming of systems like this is partly or fully automated, especially the C-RAM stuff.

But there are simple and very lo-tec solutions to this.

Not really. It really depends how many targets you have.

Yes, even with automation, it takes time to detect, target, and fire. It's not like the movies. Its why supersonic missiles are so effective against CIWS. Also, coupled with a heavy EW environment it worse. Or a missile that can self-maneuver.

Yes, but so far nobody has bothered to RP serious EW activities.

The only cruise missiles that have been fired, AFAIK, are subsonic ones.

Using hundreds of cruise missiles at once as people are wont to do in NS is something that's not very intelligent and opens the missiles up not only to being shot down, but to fratricide was well. (This is why when I do need to fire lots of missiles I do so in succession rather than all at once).

In short, yes, you're hypothetically right but so far there's not been anything actually posted tha would cause me to say Qaidi is doing anything unreasonable.

Okay beginning my assault.

Only Sharqi Island.

Allanea wrote:

United States of Devonta wrote:
Not really. It really depends how many targets you have.

Yes, even with automation, it takes time to detect, target, and fire. It's not like the movies. Its why supersonic missiles are so effective against CIWS. Also, coupled with a heavy EW environment it worse. Or a missile that can self-maneuver.

Yes, but so far nobody has bothered to RP serious EW activities.

The only cruise missiles that have been fired, AFAIK, are subsonic ones.

Using hundreds of cruise missiles at once as people are wont to do in NS is something that's not very intelligent and opens the missiles up not only to being shot down, but to fratricide was well. (This is why when I do need to fire lots of missiles I do so in succession rather than all at once).

In short, yes, you're hypothetically right but so far there's not been anything actually posted tha would cause me to say Qaidi is doing anything unreasonable.

Eh, Iv'e RPed my EC-130 doing some jamming. And I plan on doing more.

Well yes, theirs no point in having reduced RCS missiles (or planes) if their in clustered blotches. That can ruin stealth.

And yes he hasn't.

Allanea wrote:
So for Qaidi:

1. Do the forces in Tunis have significant radar assets, beyond those that came with their air defense guns? If not, how do they detect enemy aircraft, especially stealthy ones?
2. How many fighter planes do they have defending the city?

Yes, there are Civilian Air Traffic Control which can detect some aircraft. An advanced VHF band early warning radar was also stolen from the Sultanate, with some of those who know how to operate it defecting to the QPSR. The QPSR also uses a combination of high-speed data-links and low-frequency phased-array radars to identify the presence of stealth aircraft and generate a weapons quality track.

2. Around 20. These planes take off in shifts, except for a small window between 10 minutes before all prayer times and prayer time where Muslim pilots will change out with non-Muslim pilots.

That's really well-thought out Qaidi. There are some flaws, but I'll try and exploit them in-character.

Now waiting for your response for my post so I can move on with our arc.

Well, the QPSR itself has many flaws. And, they aren't a full-blown country yet, the army is getting stronger day by day though.

Qaidi wrote:Well, the QPSR itself has many flaws. And, they aren't a full-blown country yet, the army is getting stronger day by day though.

You mean to say it was growing stronger.

Well, it still is getting support from its oil industry. And your bombing isn't helping the peace negotiations in Port Qadir at all.

By the way, nice post, Allanea. I especially like the 'meanwhile' part at the start of the post. From Doctor el-Rahman and the Archpastor having tea, to a QPSR recruiter getting burnt alive, amazing.

Qaidi wrote:Well, it still is getting support from its oil industry. And your bombing isn't helping the peace negotiations in Port Qadir at all.

There will be peace when the cannibals and child slavers are exterminated.

Qaidi wrote:Well, it still is getting support from its oil industry. And your bombing isn't helping the peace negotiations in Port Qadir at all.

Which of the oil industry infrastructure is still active/intact?

Inquiring minds want to know.

The North-West.

I'll be getting a post up tomorrow on Devonta's actions on the 5th. Don't skip, please.