NationStates Modern Tech Advice and Assistance Thread

[Zhouran]

Well anyone who tortures any and all enemy prisoners for any reason is just being 1-dimensional and doing it wrong.

When people do tortures in their RPs, they always go for the obvious physical form even though psychological torture exists. But yeah, a lot of tortures used in RP tend to be straight up violently graphic and like what Western Pacific Territories said, it simply comes off as being edgy. I personally dislike obvious, specifically-detailed graphic description of torture and prefer a more-subtle form where torture is at least hinted but not directly stated.

On the other hand, leftist non-state actors will often get tortured for shitz and giggles simply to punish them for being leftist non-state actors.

This would work well with radical terrorist detainees too.

The point there was to, frankly, demonstrate the nature of Cuscatlani junta - a group that is acting for a good goal, however with questionable methods.

While the Cuscatlani junta's "good goal" is subjective, why would they use questionable methods in interrogating detainees, except of course the point is to strike fear into the hearts of potential opponents. The Zhouranese prefer a more-moderate method such as the good cop/bad cop technique and Reid technique with psychological torture being reserved for terrorists and non-state actors.

[Allanea]

The problem with psychological torture is that it's difficult to carry off in writing.

I was inspired by this thread to read FM 34-52, the official US military interrogation manual. I find it accessible and easy to understand, although on some specific issues it's probably best to refer back to it directly when roleplaying interrogations.

[Zhouran]

The problem with psychological torture is that it's difficult to carry off in writing.

Probably depends on how good someone's writing skills are. But then again, I'm not a skilled writer and I do agree, giving a specific description of psychological torture is quite difficult, although someone could write a vague description of the after-affects instead.

[New Aeyariss]

The problem with psychological torture is that it's difficult to carry off in writing.

Probably depends on how good someone's writing skills are. But then again, I'm not a skilled writer and I do agree, giving a specific description of psychological torture is quite difficult, although someone could write a vague description of the after-affects instead.

The issue is that RPing such a torture requires a well created character and someone who actually portray such a person in detail. Every man has his / hers own weaknesses which can be easily exploited.

It also requires certain degree of cooperation from the other side.

[Zhouran]

The issue is that RPing such a torture requires a well created character and someone who actually portray such a person in detail. Every man has his / hers own weaknesses which can be easily exploited.

It also requires certain degree of cooperation from the other side.

It would be pretty interesting to see two RPers having each of their character in a torture scenario, with one character being the one who tortures and another character who gets tortured. While the weakness of the character who gets tortured is seen visibly, the weakness of the character who tortures is basically swept under the rug, and as a result, the torturer becomes pretty much your basic sociopathic masochistic sadist that many tend to end up create, rather than a soldier who simply performs unwanted morally-questionable torture because of irrefutable orders from superiors. But then again, not everyone is into character-building, and I respect that, especially in the context of war RPs.

[Ghant]

Hello all,

I would like to thank everyone who participated in this past week's discussion of the torture topic. I think there's been a lot of good perspectives shared on this subject that will hopefully be of good use to the MT community. For our next topic, we're going to be taking a look at something far less risque.

UPDATE: I added links to all of the weekly topics at the bottom of the thread OP for ease of access.

The Topic of the Week is...

Earth Realism

I've thought a lot about what to name this topic, and ultimately I went with "Earth Realism" because it refers to the degree in which an MT roleplaying environment is based on "Real Life" (RL). Obviously this covers a broad range of subjects so I'll try to narrow it down a bit to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about.

Three issues I've often encountered that have formed the basis for my understanding of Earth Realism include the following. How much should the IC roleplaying environment, including the map, the geography, flora and fauna, be based upon our real world, another thing that I call "ethnic consistency," where nations of similar race, ethnic background, language, etc. are clustered together, and other more obvious things such as population and technology.

Earth Realism, then, is an extreme case of Hard MT, one that strictly adheres to our own RL world as closely as possible. One of the main Earth Realism adherent roleplaying communities (and certainly the longest lasting) would be Earth II. The premise of Earth II is that writers roleplay in a fictional variation of Earth, where most of the same pre-history is the same, but events happened differently in the recent millennia, causing many fictional nations to arise over an alternative historical timeline. For those of you who are more interested in this concept of roleplaying alternative Earth settings, I strongly recommend Aces & Eights.

While most MT roleplaying communities on NS are not entirely based upon RL to the extent of Earth II, there are some common trends that I've notice carry over. One specific example that comes to mind is the issue of flora and fauna. I was once affiliated with an MT roleplaying community where it was actively discouraged from having extinct animals exist ICly, such as mammoths, cave bears and even recently extinct animals such as the Great Auk (obviously the longer a species has been extinct, the harder it would be to justify it's continued existence).

The argument that I made in favor of having such extinct animals is that the circumstances that led to their extinction in the RL might not have arisen in the IC world, most notably in the case of the Great Auk. If, ICly, they had a larger range than they did in RL and were not over-hunted to such a large degree, or if they were protected sooner, it is reasonable to assume that they could still exist. That begs the question then, of where do you draw the line?

Another situation I often find is in regards to making the map...just how much should the IC map be based on the RL one? The arrangement of the continents, where certain ethnic groups go...the equator, the arctic and antarctic, etc. Then there's the matter of the scale, whether the IC roleplaying environment is a globe or a part of a larger world, etc. I usually just assume that it's within the "Goldilocks Zone" of habitable space, and while it doesn't matter if it's the "third rock from the sun," so to speak, according to Earth Realism, it should have at least one moon of roughly the same size as the RL one, otherwise the days would be different, the ebb and flows of the tides would be different, so on and so forth.

Naturally I could go on all night, but in summation, Earth Realism to me is whenever we appraise a situation, development or circumstance of world-building and roleplaying in MT and we say, "is that possible in real life" or "could this work in real life?" And to what extent, ranging from Earth II all the way up to Soft MT and into other categorical "tech levels" as we understand them on NS.

What are your experiences with this topic? Please share some of your stories (horror stories are welcome), opinions and ideas regarding this week's topic.

[Forest State]

Today I learned that this thread is a thing... Interesting.

With the subject of Earth realism, I can't say I'm a fan of it. I'm more a fan when people use it for their own national canon, like having different ethnic areas in their nation grouped together realistically, than when regions use it. I actually do have a couple of horror stories about Earth realism severely limiting RP in certain regions. Basically, continents are organized by ethnicity and culture, so you either play a certain type of nation or you say goodbye to the prospect of active RP happening in your area. You can play a nation you don't really want because it lets you interact with people, or you can make the one that you originally imagined and then get bored when all of the active RP is too far away to join.

That's just my experience though. Some people like it but personally I don't like realism to the point of ruining actual RP chances for half of the region. Also we're talking about the map here, I guess, but it can work better in other situations that don't revolve around mapping.

[Ghant]

Today I learned that this thread is a thing... Interesting.

With the subject of Earth realism, I can't say I'm a fan of it. I'm more a fan when people use it for their own national canon, like having different ethnic areas in their nation grouped together realistically, than when regions use it. I actually do have a couple of horror stories about Earth realism severely limiting RP in certain regions. Basically, continents are organized by ethnicity and culture, so you either play a certain type of nation or you say goodbye to the prospect of active RP happening in your area. You can play a nation you don't really want because it lets you interact with people, or you can make the one that you originally imagined and then get bored when all of the active RP is too far away to join.

That's just my experience though. Some people like it but personally I don't like realism to the point of ruining actual RP chances for half of the region. Also we're talking about the map here, I guess, but it can work better in other situations that don't revolve around mapping.

Indeed it is! Welcome to the thread, I'm glad you discovered it.

The balancing act between personal desires for one's nation and the expectations of their roleplaying community is certainly an old argument, and an ongoing matter of debate. I think if you're playing Soft MT, there's more room for hand waves and such when it comes to things being out of place, though there's far less of that in Hard MT settings. A good example that I've encountered recently is in one group I'm in, we had a writer that wanted to have elves, or at least men with pointy ears, in a Hard MT setting. The general consensus from the rest of the region was that this was unacceptable, due to the implications that such a thing posed. One, how would that be explained ICly? There's certainly no RL precedent for something like that, and would require a great degree of "gymnastics" in order to justify. Sure, it pertained to his nation and his nation alone, but it had wider implications on the rest of the group that people didn't want to deal with.

Another specific example I've encountered is with questions revolving around "ethnic consistency." I once encountered a situation where a writer wanted to roleplay a Mediterranean nation where the Nordic countries were on the map, which was far to the north. This again was a rather jarring situation to deal with for the writers nearby and they were quite opposed to that, since such a nation next to them posed canonical conundrums that they didn't want to deal with.

So as you can see, it's a slippery slope, and the key, in my opinion, is to strike a balanace between what the writer wants to do with what the expectations of their roleplaying community are. That way, everyone emerges from the situation with an arrangement that is to their mutual satisfaction.

[Layarteb]

I will thank Ghant for mentioning and linking Earth II above. It is true that it is the longest lasting "Earth RP" on NS for it has been going since November 13, 2004. Today is its 4,711th day of continuous running and it sure has seen its ups and its downs for membership, activity, and what not.

In the sense of realism, Earth II is devoted partly to realism. We obviously use the real-life map of Earth (since that's the most basic tenet of an Earth RP) and while we do encourage our members to use realistic demographics, there are no rules governing this. Over the years, we have had a Rome-inspired China, a Caucasian India, and Scots in Africa, just to name a few. It is "Hard MT" in the sense that it is modern tech. Some nations have RP'd as the lowest end of this while others are extremely, technologically advanced, pushing the boundaries of MT perhaps. When it comes to military equipment, we encourage members to use whatever they want, whether it is real-life equipment or their own designs, provided that they adhere to the MT limits.

However most of all, we've encouraged good writing. There are some of us who get hung up on stat blocks and what not but we have no rules governing this or requirements for people to have fully detailed ORBATs. Our focus is on quality of writing and I must say over the past 13 years, Earth II has benefited from some of the best writers on Nation-States. Many "community stalwarts" have had stints in Earth II over the years, albeit mostly in the Jolt years when Nation-States was so active you needed to keep up with it every few hours, lest you lose your place in an RP that moved from one to four pages in length.

For Earth II, the player makes up their story as much as they want. We have a pre-established canon in what is essentially an alt-history world with serious deviation. A famous phrase we have used over the past is "Real life does not equal Earth II." Some players have come in to play realistic adaptations of RL nations but most others have not. We truly encourage the creativity. We have NPC nations set up to honor long-lasting players who contributed significantly to the RP and we ask new players to honor that up until the point they complete their intro RP, at which point they can deviate, as they so desire. To pay homage to the past is a courtesy and then players can write their own present and futures.

Once upon a time, there were dozens of Earth RPs and most of them lasted a week or two. Earth V lasted a long time, as did Earth 20, which are two that spring to mind. Whatever the flavor of anyone's desire for an Earth RP, whether it is a "hard" or a "soft" setting, hopefully they can find it on NS and if they can't? It's perhaps time to make one!

[Ghant]

Hello all,

The new Topic of the Week is...

Custom Weapons

Most people in MT know what this is, but for those who do not, custom weapons are basically weapons that are made by writers for in-character purposes. Generally this consists of firearms, which are used for in-character roleplaying in military related threads and worldbuilding projects such as factbooks and IIwiki articles. Some of these weapons closely resemble and function similarly to real life weapons, while others are unique without having many real life analogues. There are several different programs that writers use to create these weapons, from Paint, Photoshop to Lineart, among others.

A few links that come to mind are the NS Military Realism Thread, where discussions on custom weapons are known to be had from time to time, and some of the more prominent storefronts that come to mind are Wolf Armaments, authored by TECT, and Lyran Arms, authored by its namesake Lyras. As you may be able to discern from these links, military immersion is a strong component of the general MT roleplaying scene, and custom weapons are a way for writers to add more depth to their roleplaying experience.

Having said that, I don't have much personal experience with custom weapons outside of my familiarity with them as an aspect of worldbuilding. However, in the past I have been in roleplaying communities where members invested a great deal of time and effort into developing their custom weapons and sharing them amongst each other, which can serve as a great community building exercise.

However, that's not to say that I've never personally encountered any issues with custom weapons. I was in an MT roleplaying group where there was a small, yet active custom weapon designing scene, where writers would make custom weapons and then enter into agreements about who would or could use these weapons ICly. At least one writer said that he wouldn't recognize any custom made weapons OOCly, on the grounds that "if it's a weapon that doesn't exist IRL, I won't recognize it as canon." Of course this caused a great deal of friction in the group, and I can't imagine that this was a problem exclusive to said group.

There's also the issue of cross-tech level custom weapons and to what extent they are recognized among various MT roleplaying communities. For instance, while TECT's custom weapons are generally widely accepted in the MT community, "Lyran weapons" generally are not, given their more PMT flavor. Again, this varies from group to group and from writer to writer, but I've seen it cause issues in the past, where someone in an MT group would claim to possess Lyran arms and then have that be disputed OOCly by their roleplaying associates.

What is your experience with custom weapons? Do you use programs to create them, or do you peruse storefronts in order to acquire the rights to use them? Have custom weapons caused problems in your roleplaying community, and if so how did it play out?

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

I design every single piece of equipment I use in RPs basically for three reasons: I get a kick out of it, I RP mostly PMT so RL stuff doesn't usually fit what I want to do, and lastly because part of my IC nation's canon is that it's overwhelmingly a manufacturing economy (as opposed to an information or service economy) with an expansive domestic manufacturing base, thus it would extremely bizarre for us not to make pretty much all of our own military equipment (as opposed to buying it all from an MT/PMT storefront).

I have created a storefront with my stuff (link in sig) which is a perpetual WIP, currently I'm working on finishing the writeups for existing plane and ship designs while also creating all the AFVs I want to use. TBH I could care less if other people buy it, I created the storefront more to make a nice, neat catalog of all the weapons and other stuff I use. Tech level wise It's what I personally call "Hard PMT" which I define as stuff that's not hard MT but adheres to fairly rigorous standards of plausibility and realism nonetheless. If you read the writeups I'd say on average it's a 90/10 split between hard MT and PMT which I did so I can use most of my stuff in RPs that lean more MT and then unleash my full arsenal in RP's that lean more towards PMT.

[United Vallerian Republic]

For anyone who is interested, I have started an NS design Discord. Feel free to join! https://discord.gg/4hgNm66

[Layarteb]

Over the years, I've designed many of my own weapons systems. I've also acquired many systems that were designed by other players. As I have always role-played as a MT nation, it is crucial that I've picked up designs that adhere to this standard. Designs that are PMT in nature I've always looked past though some may have inspired parts of my own designs over the years whenever I attempted to push the boundaries of MT.

As the years have gone by, I have adopted some real-life designs over some of my homemade ones simply because often enough my homemade designs were not unique enough or simply not realistic enough in comparison. There have been some designs, however, that I have stuck with over the years that were homemade. My most successful of these is the F-58 Viper, a 4.5-generation fighter jet that was drawn by Laritaia years ago. I was heavily researched and designed with the help of the NS Arms and NS Draftroom communities when they were considerably more active.

I've always enjoyed making my own designs though. Sometimes I've designed them because a real-life system doesn't fill the specific need that I want or perhaps because I want something unique. I've always required an image for any design I "built" or "bought" over the years to help with the description of said design in posts. To me this is crucial to have, as a writer. Of course, because I am terrible at drawing, I've always relied on others or real-life images for my designs, unfortunately.

[Common Territories]

Well to begin with, thanks for the mention and recognition to creators Ghant. I feel you've accurately covered a lot of the viewpoints that you'll find in the NS RP wider community.

To come off from where I started, or I guess my story if you will, I began Wolf Armaments for two reasons: I wanted custom weapons for my fledgling PMC storefront (which I was better known for at the time) and I wanted said weapons for my nation's military too. Commoner League Inc. was my introduction into GE&T and something I put tons of passion into making possible; im pretty sure it still stands as the largest PMC in the open NS world, or at least that I have noticed. When I technically started Wolf Armaments, it was just some random name for an armament company that I needed to provide small arms to my PMC; it was more of a filler name than anything and it took months to really get the "company" into official writing. This filler of a loophole served to provide a small selection of small arms (mostly assault rifles, battle rifles, etc.) that I originally sold on my PMC. I still make them using PimpMyGun and only go deeper into editing when it's actually needed. One solid method for attracting customers, or maybe I should say drawing them in, is your product needs as much tangibility as possible; being able to physically see said product, read about in great detail about it, and going over its extensive specs help bring that product into your and customer imaginations. Anyways. I started Wolf Armaments with nothing but 4-6 rifles and machine guns and a very weak business model. Originally, I was convinced I could never produce real art so I decided to make Wolf Armaments a company for contributors to sell their products there, kinda like a flee market. The idea itself is still in practice with anyone being able to submit products to me to put up for sale. I realized shortly after that this was not good enough of an idea; people aren't going to come solely for small arms (I was getting plenty of suggestions to sell other stuff) and although I liked the idea of people getting a chance to sell their products, it's unrealistic to expect people to fill my product list for me. So I downloaded Paint.Net and committed myself to learning how to lineart no matter what - just as people have suggested for a while now. Now full disclosure here, I spent plenty of time learning the tools and learning about linearting in general during this period; in fact, the first thing I drew was the Feurig 1A1 which at the time looked like an Abrams - even though it was a splice job between a Leopard 2, a K2, and an Abrams. I can tell you now that linearting isn't an easy feat and it took my no-talent ass years to get where I am now. So going forward, I promised myself to improve my skill with each product I worked on - whether that was improving how I did lines or drawing new shapes. Over time I got better, I learned from others who made suggestions, and by the time I got a wider selection I had came to fairly decent standard of linearting - at least a skill level I was happy with but not done improving yet (or ever really). Now if you're familiar with this event you'll know that I used stuff from Juniorgeneral, including parts and some splices. I was rightfully made to admit I probably should have gave more credit than I should have publicly to said artists, but even though I didn't it will never change the fact im grateful to JG for its role in helping me learn to line art. But that's besides the story and I'd rather stomp on that old drama before it gets stirred up again, so lets move on. Before this mentioned situation I worked on "Updating" products that I've made in the past; this included redrawing them, changing some stats, and improving the quality of the product overall. I've previously mentioned this as being "Updates" to the products in the past. "Updates" have not reached all my products considering I come out with new ones once in a while, but I have reached most of them at some capacity and in many cases I've redone stuff 4+ times (I keep a very organized art collection for example for everything I update/draw).

Now this is sorta a GE&T rant the way it's going, so if I need room for the rest of Ghant's response I'll make a second post. But I wanted to finish this portion off by saying creation of products and storefronts isn't something you should blindly do. Storefronts, like products, only succeed when passion is behind the creator; you want to make something you're proud to sell, you'll only accept something if it meets your high standards, and you'll gladly give up hours of your life working on said project. But most importantly, you should do what you want to do, not what other people want you to do. For example, I had just as many people (friends and foes) who told me Wolf Armaments the thread and storefront would die in a few weeks or few months. People were convinced, whether they wanted it to happen or not, that I'd be run out of business by Lyran Arms and the other prominent arms storefronts at the time. When I made Wolf Armaments it was during a time when arms storefronts were doing very well and the quality of many of them were far better than anything I could muster. No one has any idea how many times I was told specifically that Lyras and Lamoni would ride my ass out of town so I should just not bother; well, besides Lamoni and Lyras themselves considering they supported me and still do. People may not have as much passion as it took for me to get Wolf Armaments this far, but if you want successful storefronts and products, you're going to need a truckload of passion and effort.

---

Now to speak about the other topics mentioned by Ghant, custom weapons can be a point of disagreement in the MT communities. The first case Ghant pointed out were the people who refuse to recognize custom weapons in their canons. At one point early early on in my RPing career (even on site) I was partially like this; I shared this opinion because I was victim to, and witnessed cases, where custom tech users using PMT or FT gear abused MT players with tech advantages. Now everyone's not like that, and even I went through a PMT phase, but im a strong believer in tech barriers. Although I'd contest with many who'd just outright throw the idea of custom weapons out the window, as Ghant laid out, I can see where they're coming from because custom weapons differ by creator and communities are not always suitable for custom weapons. When it comes to my products for example, I focus on hard MT technology along with some innovations that are in the field or very well could be; almost every product I've made has a RL inspiration I can point to, for example. It doesn't mean my products are perfect, it just means that I focus on that type of writing and therefor my products reflect that. It hasn't stopped some people from canon ignoring them or outright accusing them of being PMT (as ignorant a statement that'd be tbh), proof that people can have differing opinions. Some writers prefer a more fluid definition of MT, or aren't MT at all for example, so the definition of what's acceptable begins to unravel when guidelines degrade or alter. I find people who shut themselves away from custom weapons as a whole are being closed minded to custom weapons that could/should be welcomed in their communities if they researched them; granted if its the regional leadership's choice to ban them or a player simply refuses to recognize said custom weapons, that's their choice as a player that everyone should respect. Your only viable choice is to work out a compromise or find a way around that issue - your last option, one that's the most extreme tbh, is to just not write/participate with them and ignore them. Certainly friction can be found in regions for tech issues like custom weapons. For example, I've ran across people worried about my equipment in regions that had concerns about their MT legitimacy; after a civil discussion, the issue was typically resolved. This goes for people in other regions who've reached out to me and regions where I have/had personal dealings with to the point im in their canon. Another example, a more emotional one, are the times I've met people who personally despised me or custom weapons and labeled my stuff PMT because they simply didn't like me on a personal level; a shitty situation, but it's one where you either make a counterargument or ignore them entirely (I suggest ignoring them). And just like Ghant's experience, I have met people who simply didn't want custom equipment coming in and risking the current environment's balance; in most places where this is a rule, leadership is just trying to prevent unfair technology from abusing regionmates. So in the end it's up to the players involved to decide if custom weapons are allowed or not. My personal opinion is that custom weapons should be judged case-by-case; if a hard MT region, for example, wanted to keep its technology limits in place, leadership should screen participants equipment - or maybe even the players themselves should do that themselves. I don't think I need to make my feelings about how much I care for custom weapons known since I've already talked about them in length

---

Lastly, when it comes to the cross-tech segment, I find people are overwhelmingly biased in mocking Lyras/Lamoni because of Lyran Arms' long history. I can't begin to count how many times I'd hear statements like "Only noobs use Lyran Arms shit because it's wank." or "Lyran Arms is wank garbage." and "Lyran Arms is the hooker of NS who sells to anyone", there have even been times when they quote one of Lyras' more PMT ideas and mock it like it was some North Korean prototype super-weapon. You know it's bad when people use Lyras/Lyran Arms as an insult for wank or negative PMT insinuations (too many people do this tbh); in fact, I've at times been insulted by someone using Lyran Arms like it was some slur, saying that I was "just as unrealistic, wank, and PMT as Lyran Arms." Though I think the worst stinging insult I have personally been dealt concerning my storefront's legitimacy was by a certain person who I used to respect but took a steamy shit on that friendship - I wont bother naming them but im sure they know who they are (they're not worth mentioning in the first place). Anyways, people treat Lyran Arms, Lyras, and sometimes Lamoni as punching bags because their tech may or may not be MT depending on your stance or know-how of the technology covered. Personally I've found 90% of Lyran Arms stuff to be well within MT if not a little out there; I'll steadily admit some stuff is crossing the tech line, but really this is not what im trying to get at here. Granted im not defending either of the three since they're big boys who can and have defended themselves when it comes to such criticisms. Im only calling out the dubious name callers who aren't interested in a civil debate or who just personally disagree with Lyran Arm's tech choices, im speaking of those who are more interested in defaming Lyras and Lyran Arms than having fair criticisms for them.

Okay. Rant over. I'll standby for questions/discussions, but im partially busy so apologies if I can't respond in a timely manner.

[Inyourfaceistan]

I have slowly adopted the use of a large number of custom (IC Indigenous) equipment.

When I first started playing, my forces were a mismatched litany of US, Russian, Israeli, Brazilian and NS GE&T madness where I would pick and choose equipment mostly for reasons of Rule of Kewl. As I got better I started to understand "logistics" and cut back on the patch-work armed forces to a huge degree. This went on more and more, however, you realize once you get into developing your doctrine and layout that equipment is not one-size-fits-all, and that to make the ideal military for your geopolitical and economic situation ultimately requires some level of customization, be it something completely NS Indigenous, such as my AC-88 Taipan fighter, or more commonly a custom mod of an IRL piece of equipment, such as the M1A2 HDEP Alligator or BTR-82Y.

On the subject of RP acceptance of custom equipment, its not an issue most of the time that I have seen in my own experience. Even with Lyran stuff, its only abominations like the Longsword which seem to draw ire, to the point even mentioning it by name is tongue-in-cheek banned on the NS Mil Realism thread; meanwhile I have seen no one complain about the Sparrowhawk. I would say its generally stuff which "breaks the game" that becomes controversial.
In my experience nobody cares if you come in with a custom 4/4.5/5th gen fighter, but once you start making 5.5++/6th gen iWin buttons, then people get upset.

[The Akasha Colony]

I started out in MT with the original objective of designing all of my own equipment, but backed off from that goal when it became apparent how much time and effort it would require to draw and write entries and descriptions that I would be satisfied with. So now the bulk of the "big ticket" items are custom made, while equipment with more basic functions where there would be little room or need for customization is off-the-shelf from IRL designs. As I've spent a few years on it and the pool of recyclable vehicle, ship, and aircraft parts has expanded, line arting designs has gotten a bit easier and faster, although article writing takes as long as ever (as the multitude of half-finished and unfinished IIWiki entries I've started attests).

I don't buy from NS storefronts, although not because I have any philosophical or personal issue with them. I briefly created one when I started out but abandoned it when it became clear I was more interested in drawing and writing about the equipment than operating a storefront, and because I hate writing (and reading) marketing-speak. But I could not get past the suspension of disbelief necessary to buy major systems or pieces of equipment from foreign nations that my own had never formally interacted with. And conversely, the "unrealism" of selling multi-billion dollar aircraft carriers to nations that my own had never interacted with was also a bit of a stretch by "realistic" standards. I still buy and sell equipment, but nowadays only to players that I have interacted with in the past whose nations would be likely to have sufficiently good ties to permit (from a political standpoint) the import of military equipment.

None of it's ever been used though since I've not been in an NS MT RP long enough for it to matter.

[The Macabees]

My main nation uses mostly custom technology; some of it I will buy from non-domestic manufacturers. I also use only custom technology for the different PMC groups based out of Tarn (and soon, Pezlevko); I like to feature other people's stuff, so I will usually shop around different storefronts when arming PMCs (usually on an RP per RP basis, depending on what 'props' I need for the story).

I am putting together a storefront...one day it will be ready...

As far as MT vs. PMT and all that jazz, there's honestly too little hours in the day to worry about it. I realize that I have a unique style of RP and that there are perfectly viable alternative styles, so I by no means am saying that my approach is the best, I'm just describing my approach. Typically, when someone introduces a prop they have an intent and an expectation. That is, they have an idea of what they want to achieve. 'Strict realism' is partly, I feel, a response to the player type who will bring in a special prop with the intent and expectation to make it a 'game-changer' or a 'wonder weapon', in the sense of 'this is what's going to stump you and cause you to lose.'

I don't RP with that kind of player, so it hasn't really been an issue for me in a long time. Just personal preference, that's it.

In any case, it's not the prop, it's the player.

The real reason I ended up going into miltech wasn't because I wanted to stump people, it was because I was genuinely intellectually interested in that literature and I enjoyed designing. I've read literally hundreds of papers on tanks, on topics as esoteric as ballistic tests on various ceramics. I used to network with people and we would send each other photocopied articles that we had, it's how I got access to some of the best stuff I read. I would go to different university libraries and ask for access to their online and microfilm databases to try to dig up what I could. It was a hobby and an obsession. It actually ended up consuming most of my time on NS, and it's ultimately why I started to slow down RP-wise leading up to 2009 or so (I also started an economics blog around then and that effectively killed all my NS activity).

I think that's true for most people in miltech and it should be respected, whether it's TECT or Lyras, no matter the minutiae of determining the line between MT and PMT (which, to me, is a pointless line to look for anyways -- again, just an opinion). The point is, maybe Lyras' tech is not perfect, maybe there are elements that are less realistic, but he put time and effort into it because he likes to design, it's his form of art.

That alone is why I can be relatively lenient with tech. To me, it's interesting and it's exotic. It acts a certain quality to the RP, almost inherently, because someone put a lot of thought into it and that makes it easier to put thought into how you show it (not tell it) in the story.

Not all players know how to do that.

It's okay, we all started out somewhere.

Bottom line: don't blame the tech, mentor the player. Be a leader and help to improve the quality of RP.

[New Aeyariss]

The problem in my opinion isn't as much "it's a weapon that does not exist IRL, I don't recognize them". I have in the past times been increasingly tolerant over what I permit people to bring into an RP and had less and less issues with it. The problem at the same time is - can it work? Have you addressed the problems the design creates?

I remember when Riysa, fighting by my side, destroyed 300+ Lyran skyguards utilizing weaknesses in the system's design. People who put untested tech into MT RPs often tend to downplay the issues with their designs and focus only on drawbacks. I myself remember how many times I got furious at Riys for shooting down my ideas... yet in the long run it helped me a lot. It improved quality of what I have been making.

But then I see people who want to bring in lasers, railguns, 3 kilometer long suborbital vacuum airships that already became a living joke.... You see, making a design is one thing. Expecting it to work and a skilled opponent not to exploit it's weaknesses - another.

[Zhouran]

For instance, while TECT's custom weapons are generally widely accepted in the MT community, "Lyran weapons" generally are not, given their more PMT flavor. Again, this varies from group to group and from writer to writer, but I've seen it cause issues in the past, where someone in an MT group would claim to possess Lyran arms and then have that be disputed OOCly by their roleplaying associates.

To be fair, most of Lyran Arms products are legitimately well within the parameters of real MT, and I have no issues with that. However, in some areas, some of the Lyran Arms products are standing between the lines of MT and PMT, like the 140mm ETC cannons, nuclear-powered superheavy bombers, and extreme-range cruise missiles. While I do sometimes like to dabble in NS-MT, when it comes to war RPs in which the OP calls for strict hard MT, that's when I'll have issues with those who use products like the ones mentioned beforehand.

but once you start making 5.5++/6th gen iWin buttons, then people get upset.

A gen-5+ stealth fighter would basically be a 5th-gen stealth fighter with enhanced avionics and possibly unmanned capabilities, though what constitutes as a gen-5+ would probably be debatable. Sixth generation fighters on the other hand are hypothetical.

[Inyourfaceistan]

For instance, while TECT's custom weapons are generally widely accepted in the MT community, "Lyran weapons" generally are not, given their more PMT flavor. Again, this varies from group to group and from writer to writer, but I've seen it cause issues in the past, where someone in an MT group would claim to possess Lyran arms and then have that be disputed OOCly by their roleplaying associates.

To be fair, most of Lyran Arms products are legitimately well within the parameters of real MT, and I have no issues with that. However, in some areas, some of the Lyran Arms products are standing between the lines of MT and PMT, like the 140mm ETC cannons, nuclear-powered superheavy bombers, and extreme-range cruise missiles. While I do sometimes like to dabble in NS-MT, when it comes to war RPs in which the OP calls for strict hard MT, that's when I'll have issues with those who use products like the ones mentioned beforehand.

but once you start making 5.5++/6th gen iWin buttons, then people get upset.

A gen-5+ stealth fighter would basically be a 5th-gen stealth fighter with enhanced avionics and possibly unmanned capabilities, though what constitutes as a gen-5+ would probably be debatable. Sixth generation fighters on the other hand are hypothetical.

If your fighter is rocking avionics better than anything F-22, F-35 or PAK-FA* would have, then yeah, it's probably not exactly material for a modern tech thread...

[The Akasha Colony]

If your fighter is rocking avionics better than anything F-22, F-35 or PAK-FA* would have, then yeah, it's probably not exactly material for a modern tech thread...

There are already more advanced avionics out there than are present in F-22, F-35, and Su-57. They're by no means widespread, but they do exist. This isn't really the thread for that discussion though.

[Ghant]

Hello all,

Since we had some excellent discussion on last week's topic of Custom Weapons, it seemed appropriate to continue the conversation with a related topic. The topic of the week is...

Cross-Tech RPing

Cross-Tech RPing is self-explanatory- it's a roleplay that is open to and consists of nations from different tech levels, which can include but are not limited to MT, PT, PMT, FT, and FanT. There are specific variations of these tech levels, such as hard and soft MT, hard and soft FT, as well as even more specific tech levels like Kraven's own "NT" (Nightmare Tech).

I know what you're probably thinking right now..."cross-tech roleplaying is a terrible idea!" Indeed, it's a difficult thing to successfully pull of and requires a number of OOC accommodations in order to execute without it turning into a disaster. As some have indicated during last week's topic discussion, mixing tech seldom works out, and I'm sure at at least a few of you have horror stories of cross-tech roleplays gone wrong. Most of these horror stories probably consist of advanced tech nations wanking their tech against lower tech nations, using it to gain an unfair advantage, so on and so forth.

However, I will say from personal experience that cross-tech roleplays can, if they are managed properly, work out very well to everyone's advantage. Firstly, I prefer to roleplay my main nation, Ghant as being hard MT. Having said that, I've successfully taken part in PMT roleplays that contrast strongly with the way I choose to roleplay Ghant. The PMT roleplaying communities I primarily write in are Gholgoth and Greater Dienstad, where most of the nations use PMT tech, have no pop caps and are generally not bound by the same principles that are usually upheld in MT (therein lying the distinction between MT and PMT).

Two roleplays from these two PMT communities that I've been a part of include Titanomachy
and First, Do No Harm. Another example from my own catalog is The War of the Two Empresses, which while generally MT has successfully integrated PMT elements. A couple of questions people might ask me may include "how did this work out so well?" and "why would you do this to yourself?"

The answer to the first question is always the first, and most important factor to consider when approaching cross-tech roleplays. Will the OP of the roleplay thread respect your tech level and work with you to make it "work" in the thread. In the first two thread links I provided, the OPs are the Macabees and Havensky. Both are veteran roleplayers, RP mentors, courteous people and are people I consider respected colleagues and friends. I trust them, and they trust me, so going into those threads as a Hard MT nation is something I was very comfortable with, because I knew I wasn't going to have a bad experience.

That's really the best advice I can give you, or anyone that chooses to write on NS. Know what your getting yourself into, aka "look before you leap." Make sure you're comfortable with the arrangement and ideally you know the OP and are on good enough terms with them to where if you choose to RP an MT nation in their higher tech threads, you can still do what you want and not have to worry about shenanigans. There's an old saying that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, meaning that it's a lot easier and causes a lot less grief to avoid a potentially disastrous situation than it is to be involved in it and then try to get out of it. Cross-Tech RPs are no exception (though that applies to all RP threads).

The second question, "why do this to yourself?" has a fairly simple answer. In both of those threads, I found the story to be compelling, the quality of the writing superb and the people involved, pleasant. That's the criteria I base my decisions upon when considering getting involved in a RP thread. Even though I choose to RP a Hard MT nation, if I like a Soft MT or PMT thread enough based on those criteria, I would very easily get involved in that thread over a Hard MT thread where those criteria are not satisfied. At the end of the day, I consider NS RP a recreational collaborative fiction writing venue, and that makes things like this very easy for me.

How about you? What are some stories you have about cross-tech roleplaying? Examples of ones that worked out okay or any horror stories? Please share!

[Ghant]

Hello all,

New month, new topic! The new weekly discussion topic is...

Non-Human Races

Easily explained as any sentient race of human-like beings that are not explicitly human as we understand them in our real world, which can include anything from elves, dwarves, hobbits/halflings, gnomes, etc, to aliens and other science-fiction species, dog and cat people, custom-made races, to fandom races such as ponies, nekos and anime people. As you can imagine, the scope of non-human races is quite expansive, and at times the line between what is human and what isn't can be blurred.

I'm sure you've all seen at least one RP thread where the title includes "human-only." That's something that's often the standard in MT regions, especially Hard MT (though that's less often the case in Soft MT). The matter of recognizing non-human races in threads has long been a contentious issue, and I've seen it handled in different ways over the years. Here are some insights I'd like to share as someone who personally doesn't roleplay non-human races and who doesn't explicitly recognize them ICly either, though I've roleplayed with those that do without any problems. (it's a pretty easy thing to work around).

As should go without saying, it's up to the OP of a roleplay thread whether to allow the inclusion of non-human races, and while I've been in threads where there were, I was not compelled by the OP to recognize them as such. If you're not comfortable participating in a thread that has non-human races in it, you generally have two options. The first option is to decline participation in the thread, which of course is anyone's right as a writer on this site (never let anyone ever tell you otherwise). The second option is the one I've exercised successfully in the past, and that's either treating the non-human races in the thread as human (if they're close enough to that), or to just leave it vague and not address it (which still allows you to write with the non-human character writer).

Here are a few personal examples. In the Isle of Elysium, the City State of Rhydin organized a clandestine meeting between various allies in a remote oceanic facility, for the purpose of conspiring against the Batory Empire and it's Xukuhite allies. At this meeting, a few non-human races were in attendance (one of which consisted of a wolf-man type race). Since I respect this writer's work and their presence in the thread (which I considered a privilege to be involved in), I left the matter vague. In my character's POV, she acknowledges the diverse cast present without going into too much detail.

In anther thread entitled A Long Awaited Queen, a female character became Queen of an "anime nation" in the region. When I say "anime nation," what I mean is that the writer informed me long in advance of the thread that she writes her nation as though it were an anime, as well as the characters in it. That's her personal creative decision as the writer and I respect that, even if I do not do that myself. Fortunately, she had no problem with me writing my characters' POVs to perceive her characters as being "real" people, and so once again, crisis averted.

Unfortunately that's not always the case. In one roleplaying community that I write in, there's a fairly strict human only rule, which at least one player has tried to circumvent by introducing elves, or as he would call it, "humans with pointy ears." This was rejected resoundingly by the community, and the issue is still a sour subject. Ultimately, you shouldn't try to write with non-human races in a human only community, and on the flip-side of the coin, don't be surprised if you encounter non-human races in a community that allows them, and have a plan for proceeding.

In my experience, most people are reasonable people (keyword most), and if you have concerns about recognizing or interacting with non-human races in an RP, don't hesitate to seek clarification with the non-human race writers or with the roleplay thread OP. I've seldom encountered any issues whenever I've approached other writers with an open-mind. Like with most things in life, attitude is very important, and if you approach others of varying roleplaying styles with respect, you'll likely get it back (most of the time).

What are your personal policies on non-human races? What about your roleplaying communities? Do you have examples where it caused any issues in your communities or threads, or instances where differences of opinion on them worked out? Please share!

[New Aeyariss]

How the Nifonese view the non-human races? Honor the Shogun - Destroy the Yokai! Quoting Lamoni, I would not have been surprised by the Nifonese expedition to a new continent to exterminate all new lifeforms".

I have to say that even if I hate the idea o "non-human races" it actually - reversely - is fun, considering that people whom I am RPing see most of them as transgenic hybrids created by the oni to disrupt creations of the Lord of Heaven (so teaches the Kogyokist church).

I also had a series of very successful RPs with FanT player, Arcadonisia, whom I miss even today. Due to his existence, there was always a place I could launch a crusade into when I was in the mood.

[Ghant]

How the Nifonese view the non-human races? Honor the Shogun - Destroy the Yokai! Quoting Lamoni, I would not have been surprised by the Nifonese expedition to a new continent to exterminate all new lifeforms".

I have to say that even if I hate the idea o "non-human races" it actually - reversely - is fun, considering that people whom I am RPing see most of them as transgenic hybrids created by the oni to disrupt creations of the Lord of Heaven (so teaches the Kogyokist church).

I also had a series of very successful RPs with FanT player, Arcadonisia, whom I miss even today. Due to his existence, there was always a place I could launch a crusade into when I was in the mood.

How much of this sentiment would you say is based upon the IC perspective of your nation's people, vs. your OOC beliefs on the matter?