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by Erythrean Thebes » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:24 pm
by The State of Monavia » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:06 am
Ghant wrote:Libraria and Ausitoria wrote:My question about travelling is, how do you all find working from someone else's setting (or often failing to set) the scene for your travels?
When I'm dealing with writing a scene that takes place in another writer's setting, I'll try to get as much information as possible from them about that setting, and then when I write the post, I will establish the setting based off of what they said. Beyond that, I try to keep things as vague as I possibly can, in order to avoid godmodding (I don't want to take creative liberties with other peoples' work, so I choose to exercise caution).
Ghant wrote:[Snip.]
Erythrean Thebes wrote:This topic reminds me of the Statesmanship project in many ways. Of course, the most obvious takeaway from SMS was that it didn't work. I don't think more than a couple people are active IC there. Praetonia and the other admins of the website tried for a couple years to diagnose what the problem was. In general the whole community agreed that there was too much shooting the breeze on the IRC chat, compared to the dramatically lesser RPing that actually went up on the boards. In my experience, the distraction of talking and playing Steam all day was itself a big factor in the low activity level. What jumps out at me reading this next topic, is the realization that the IRC and the onsite wiki service posed an activity problem for Statesmanship partly because they wasted a lot of RPing activity that actually did go on, but didn't count for much. People were active daily on SMS, creating articles and national background, yet the website still failed.
A news article post, as an RPing contribution, is oftentimes similar to a wiki page. It adds information about the game world, but it doesn't advance a dedicated plot line. Of course, that's not necessarily true. An RP news article can contain information which advances the plot of an RP. But I think experienced players will agree that news posts are very similar to wiki articles in the sense that they often feature a certain specific kind of intent from the author. They tend to have a mostly worldbuilding or expository function. That has its appeals, but that kind of content is not necessarily the optimal for another player to build off of. (It can be - if you're intrigued by something depicted in a worldbuilding content, activity could arise from the outreach). It's kind of an irony, ultimately - because players are often most interested in their existing canons and game material, they tend to be more interested in content which opens up stories for them to involve their nations in, rather than purely worldbuilding activity.
by Libraria and Ausitoria » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:30 am
○ Commonwealth Capital (Bank) ○ ○ Commonwealth Connect (Bank Treaty) ○ ○ SeaScape (Shipping & Energy) ○(██████████████████████████████║║◙█[Θ]█]◙◙◙◙◙[█]
by The State of Monavia » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:36 pm
Libraria and Ausitoria wrote:Personally I tend to like to use news posts for setting the scene or adding context. But an RP of pure scenery and context is like a cake with cherries and icing but no cake, or, from another point of view, a cake without cherries and icing. Very nice either way, but eventually indigestible.
So to be honest I'm not sure I agree with Macabees' saying you don't experience the world through all this context. Perhaps it would be better to say you don't follow the story (if there is one). And this ties in with Monavia's and Thebe's points - I'd conclude some people want stories more and some want worldbuilding more.
But if there isn't much of a story, I'll typically use news. I think both styles have a place in a balanced RP.
And I think Shwe Tu's right that FT etc. use threads more because they care more about creativity and storytelling than in hard MT circles. So Ghant, I think you'd be being too critical of Hard-MTers if you said "news posting is easy" - you're right that it can be, but that's not (only) why they do it. And you can have very creative news posts.
by The Macabees » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:05 pm
by The Macabees » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:06 pm
by Libraria and Ausitoria » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:56 am
Libraria and Ausitoria wrote:The palace was ancient, the trappings modern; and the operations room a flurry of business overlooked from the dais. From here the dictator ruled, carried to power on a wave of liberal socialist agitation that had held so much hope. The tale of how the predecessor nation had come crashing down may be celebrated elsewhere; and the subsequent communist corruption commiserated in the history books as a salutary lesson of how not to manage a revolution.
But history is littered with so many examples that you can guess at all that; now, great things are happening, and nobody has any time for history.
The State of Monavia wrote:Libraria and Ausitoria wrote:Personally I tend to like to use news posts for setting the scene or adding context. But an RP of pure scenery and context is like a cake with cherries and icing but no cake, or, from another point of view, a cake without cherries and icing. Very nice either way, but eventually indigestible.
This is quite the analogy! Sometimes I think we have a lot of frosting addicts zipping around the site in pursuit of their next sugar high.
I will reiterate my points about some players knowing how to write news posts well and others acting like they are in a hurry.
○ Commonwealth Capital (Bank) ○ ○ Commonwealth Connect (Bank Treaty) ○ ○ SeaScape (Shipping & Energy) ○(██████████████████████████████║║◙█[Θ]█]◙◙◙◙◙[█]
by Yohannes » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:27 pm
by Yohannes » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:30 pm
by Yohannes » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:05 pm
by Allanea » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:44 pm
by New Aeyariss » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:47 pm
At the moment, this is as much a "community" thread as it is a parody. How can someone who knows nothing about economic, technical, military, etc. information being made an opening poster of a "community" thread about NationStates Modern Technology?
"LET'S ATTACK OTHER PLAYERS WHO ARE DIFFERENT THAN US!"
Alright I will break my silence. Who said news posts are all easy? I want to see your reasoning.
I am a primarily news post storyteller these days so I see this as an attack against myself (and those who write with newsposts primarily). I am very open-minded (I like NSMT mixed with realism, I like fantasy, etc.). I don't like it when others who are too close-minded attack the style of RPing that I happen to like.
Inyourfaceistan wrote:You didn't know that Cusc is actually a 4-armed cyborg genius commander and skillful warrior created in secret by a cabal of rich capitalist financiers built to lead and army of drones and other renegades against and overbearing socialist regime?
Psalms 144:1 wrote:Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
by Yohannes » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:16 pm
by Allanea » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:45 pm
A role-playing game is a game in which the participants assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create stories. Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterisation, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines. Within the rules, they may improvise freely; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the games.
"Worldbuilding is the process of constructing an imaginary world, sometimes associated with a whole fictional universe. The resulting world may be called a constructed world. Developing an imaginary setting with coherent qualities such as a history, geography, and ecology is a key task for many science fiction or fantasy writers. Worldbuilding often involves the creation of maps, a backstory, and people for the world. Constructed worlds can enrich the backstory and history of fictional works, and it is not uncommon for authors to revise their constructed worlds while completing its associated work. Constructed worlds can be created for personal amusement and mental exercise, or for specific creative endeavors such as novels, video games, or role-playing games.
by The State of Monavia » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:12 pm
The Macabees wrote:For example, I think this style of news post is very different from the typical news post that most players write (including myself): viewtopic.php?p=31570479#p31570479
And it's not to toot my own horn, because the writing I'm most critical of is my own.
Libraria and Ausitoria wrote:That is certainly the most storytelling I have ever seen in a news post. It's certainly a memory through time, not a snapshot of time.
But I still disagree: worlds can exist instantaneously, and without any RP character percieving [sic] them. Then they can be percieved [sic] in the imagination of the readers and writers. Give a person enough framing devices and, if they know enough about society, economics, and geography, they can fill in the gaps in their own heads, just as a central banker will take a hundred statistics from different points of time and decide whether to raise interest rates. This is one reason why an objective newspiece is valuable.
To an extent we're already doing this whether writing news or not. Nobody has the time to present a world in full detail. But a dozen snapshots means the reader can have more freedom in their perception of the world you've built, and for that matter more freedom to build on it and interact in it themselves. Provide a person with a skeleton and they may arrange it wrong, but they don't really need you to take them through it.
The State of Monavia wrote:
This is quite the analogy! Sometimes I think we have a lot of frosting addicts zipping around the site in pursuit of their next sugar high.
A good analogy is worth a thousand pictures!
And I think I'd add the photo album vs. film analogy to the list of good ones.
I will reiterate my points about some players knowing how to write news posts well and others acting like they are in a hurry.
Of course you're right, but let's not forget the category of players knowing how to write news posts well and actually being rushed for time. RPers have varyingly busy lives - indeed I maintain most of the better RPers are also the most busy - and much as I do try to encourage more activity, I'm not about to complain if people lead busy lives and I'm not about to cut them out of slower RPing. (I don't expect any of us do, but at times I get a bit worried that it happens too regularly). Some of the best RPs are slow, without time pressure.
Yohannes wrote:Alright I will break my silence. Who said news posts are all easy? I want to see your reasoning.
I am a primarily news post storyteller these days so I see this as an attack against myself (and those who write with newsposts [sic] primarily). I am very open-minded (I like NSMT mixed with realism, I like fantasy, etc.). I don't like it when others who are too close-minded attack the style of RPing that I happen to like.
So I will defend my position against any statements like "all news posts are easy". And I will show you one example why, in fact, news-posts can be harder (and in fact requires more research) than a long ass post about a queen that marries a king, on and on and on and on, words words word words, no diplomacy realism at all.
Just words and words and words. No technical information behind them. Just made long for the sake of making it wrong. Html and formatting, fancy words used. But no substance at all.
See what I did there? I am being close-minded.
Edit: There! I turned my text into a blocktext to make it fancy! Oh I am such a wonderful and higher quality roleplayer! (just let me turn this into a 10,000 long ass words post about a king that marries a queen)
Yohannes wrote:Also, I thought this is supposed to be a "NationStates Modern Tech Advice and Assistance" thread?
So why are people not talking about things that actually matters: NationStates Modern Technology, creative technology (e.g. Lamoni, Lyran style, Etoile Arcture [sorry if I misspell your name dude], Pharthan style technology, etc.]?
Why are people not talking about actual technology and industrial or military designs? Why are people instead attacking other players who RP in a different way than them? I mean, c'mon guys. Really?
Edit: I mean, c'mon: "NationStates Modern Tech Advice and Assistance Thread."
"Let's talk about newsposts and how people who RP with newsposts are lower quality RPers or they are too lazy to write 5,000 words posts."
Really?
Edit: I love browsing this thread and I used to post here (and liking it) because I thought this is an open-minded neutral thread, not a place where people attack other people. I don't want to see this thread turning into... you guys know what.
Edit: There! I turned my text into a blocktext to make it fancy! Oh I am such a wonderful and higher quality roleplayer! (just let me turn this into a 10,000 long ass words post about a king that marries a queen).... with no NSMT diplomacy realism behind it at all
"Let's talk about writing long ass king marries a queen post"
"Let's talk about fancy beautiful html formatting and blocktext writing"
"Let's talk about waiting for your troops to arrive post"
"LET'S ATTACK OTHER PLAYERS WHO ARE DIFFERENT THAN US!"
Someone who are more well acquainted with military and industrial technology - perhaps like The Macabees, Lamoni, The State of Monavia, or anyone who is more technically competent but also OOC wise NEUTRAL at the same time - should replace Ghant as OP of this thread. Ghant clearly knows nothing at all about military technology and making him an OP of a "NationStates Modern Tech Advice and Assistance Thread" will turn this thread into a non-neutral, non-technology, biased thread.
At the moment, this is as much a "community" thread as it is a parody. How can someone who knows nothing about economic, technical, military, etc. information being made an opening poster of a "community" thread about NationStates Modern Technology?
I'd rather not see him giving wrong advice about technical information to new players!
I know I am going to to take the flak for this post but I don't care. If Ghant is going to ask the Forum Moderators (which, by the way, he can do that is completely fine as he is the opening poster after all) to remove this post, then that highlight even more why he should not be made an opening poster.
Ghant has strong points: he is a really good creative writer (much better than anyone I know on NationStates). But unfortunately a "Technology" thread is not the right thread for him to chair/lead.
Allanea wrote:I believe you’re misreading the thread title if you think that this is intended to be a technology advice thread in that sense. Certainly from the get-go I have believed that this is an advice thread for the ‘Nationstates Modern Tech’ roleplay milieu, rather than an advice thread about ‘modern tech’ military technology.
New Aeyariss wrote:At the moment, this is as much a "community" thread as it is a parody. How can someone who knows nothing about economic, technical, military, etc. information being made an opening poster of a "community" thread about NationStates Modern Technology?
Modern Technology does not refer itself merely to assistance regarding technology; it also concerns itself with ability to RP within certain environment. By my own observation Ghant has clearly proven himself capable of RPing within Hard MT environments such as Cornellia. In addition to that he is a well respected RPer and though he has some flaws, I do believe he is a valid and decent choice for this position.
And even if he has the drawbacks, there is always others (myself included) who are willing to provide him with aid. After all, the best situation is to compare this to staff of a president - president does not need to be expert on everything, because he has his staff members who are willing to assist with their respective duties.
To expect complete knowledge on all aspects of MT RPing from one person is madness.
"LET'S ATTACK OTHER PLAYERS WHO ARE DIFFERENT THAN US!"
I don't think that there is any attack going on, with all due respect.
Yohannes wrote:Okay, if that is true that no one is attacking people who happen to like to roleplay in a different way than them (i.e. through posting news), then that is good. NationStates is meant to be an open world where everyone can roleplay whatever they want (so long as they don't break the forum rules). I believe this is a common knowledge (which can be lost sometimes when people think they are the best of the bunch)
And I will fight for that kind of open-mindedness even if that will ruin my "reputation".
The last thing we need is to turn this thread into a thread where people attack other people's style of RPing. We don't want to turn this thread into a close-minded, elitist ("important people only!" or "our way is better than them!") thread (hint for some posters here who know what I am hinting at).
The fact that we can agree and disagree with one another is good. And thank you for disagreeing with me Allanea and New Aeyariss (and others), though unfortunately I will still stand by my position that I believe someone else should be the opening poster of this thread.
Thank you.
Allanea wrote:Now, let me first say that I am not at all interested in participating in debate on who is, and who is not, a good roleplayer. I have in my experience enjoyed roleplaying with players who are commonly considered ‘bad’ at least as much, if not more, than those that are commonly considered ‘good’. I am probably considered a ‘bad’ roleplayer by quite a few.
But I am interested in participating in a debate on what is, and what is not, a good roleplaying practice. Bad roleplaying practices are sometimes seen with people who are overall good roleplayers, indeed some of the best.
It is entirely possible for a player to focus so much on worldbuilding their nation (or, for a group of players, their region), that they don’t actually engage in any roleplaying activities in the sense of portraying the actions of their characters and nations in an improvised, unscripted manner.
This is a fun hobby, but it’s not roleplaying.
On the matter of news posts, they hold within themselves an advantage and a disadvantage. On one hand, a player can use a news post as a way to briefly inform other players of developments in their nation. Often this is used to be able to “have” a certain technology, or some manner of institution or item in your nation, because you have after all posted about making it and introduced it in advance.
Arguably, this is a bad practice, for two reasons:
1. It rarely provides anything to interact with.
2. It often implies the newspost as an accurate, “official account” of the events.
But the good thing about newsposts is that they don’t have to be accurate!
Consider the following layers of narration:
1. What “actually” occurs in the setting of your story.
2. What the reader is told about it.
In a regular post, the player writing the post usually functions as a reliable narrator:
“At 08:00 the Bigtopian knights unsheathed their swords and slew the dragon.”
The reader surmises from this that this is what occurred in-universe. He might decide that for whatever reason he sides with the dragon, or that his nation IC will protest the dragon’s untimely death. But it’s indisputable that at 08:00, Bigtopian knights slew the dragon.
But what if we do this:
“BNN, Bigtopia-City – The infamous dragon, Caskadon, was reported dead this morning at 08:00, slain by the King’s loyal knights, Sirs Donald, Ronald and Monald.”
Perhaps Caskadon is not dead, and BNN is lying to portray the knights in a positive light.
Perhaps he was actually slain the night before, and Bigtopian propaganda is misrepresenting the circumstances of his death.
Used in this way, I think, newsposts are actually quite helpful because they help portray the [fairly reasonable] fact that your nation has a variety of perspectives on the events.
by Yohannes » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:16 pm
by Allanea » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:25 pm
by The Akasha Colony » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:51 am
Yohannes wrote:Someone who are more well acquainted with military and industrial technology - perhaps like The Macabees, Lamoni, The State of Monavia, or anyone who is more technically competent but also OOC wise NEUTRAL at the same time - should replace Ghant as OP of this thread. Ghant clearly knows nothing at all about military technology and making him an OP of a "NationStates Modern Tech Advice and Assistance Thread" will turn this thread into a non-neutral, non-technology, biased thread.
At the moment, this is as much a "community" thread as it is a parody. How can someone who knows nothing about economic, technical, military, etc. information being made an opening poster of a "community" thread about NationStates Modern Technology?
I'd rather not see him giving wrong advice about technical information to new players!
by Yohannes » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:34 pm
The Akasha Colony wrote:I have no idea what the rest of your beef is with Ghant and it's not really relevant to myself either way
by Kyrusia » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:09 pm
Yohannes wrote:Feel free to tell the forum moderators to delete my posts too if you like. I have made my points loud and clear!
by Ghant » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:12 am
by Lamoni » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:26 am
Licana on the M-21A2 MBT: "Well, it is one of the most badass tanks on NS."
Vortiaganica: Lamoni I understand fully, of course. The two (Lamoni & Lyras) are more inseparable than the Clinton family and politics.
Triplebaconation: Lamoni commands a quiet respect that carries its own authority. He is the Mandela of NS.
by The Macabees » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:15 am
by The Macabees » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:22 am
by The Macabees » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:46 am
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