NATION

PASSWORD

[CLOSED - ESQ ONLY | IC] Fourth Esquarian Summit

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]

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Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:55 pm

Like most of her compatriots, the Regent herself was not particularly thrilled about the idea of being photographed. Contrary to popular opinion, the stereotypical reason - one that might have stemmed from Namor, as she was told - regarding its negative influence on soul, though, did not actually apply, and admittedly there were little possibility that this particular photo would be taken out of context. That said, her experience of dealing with foreign dignitaries since her youth was more than enough to allow her looking natural when the shutter was activated.

The night itself was rather uneventful, with the small band taking a detour in the town after their official business was concluded for the day. While the Aucurians obviously did not treat the Regent as a noble, the currency she had with her was enough to ensure service to her and her aides being the best money could offer. Naturally, after several servings of fine beverage, only Anteko and the towering man remained lucid, while the two younger servants failed to stay awake before their departure back to their rooms for the night.



As per protocol, the topics covered in the Summit had already been briefed to Anteko before her arrival. Concerns over the apparent insistence of the Aucurian host to force human rights as a whole into the agenda was problematic as ever. While the Regent was quite aware of pragmatism in politics, owing to her education as the heir to the throne once, it was of little use when interacting with ideologues that characterised Aucuria - it was irrelevant enough to afford being idealistic at the cost of practicality.

Perhaps as expected, Uspelevičius opted for what was essentially a preaching to the crowd - delivered to other leaders of the world instead of his own constituency. As her interpretor struggled to convert his words into Literary Tuthinan despite lacking many native terms in the lexicon, the Regent remained calm as she sipped her drink, occasionally resting her pen onto the paper to take note of his points.

It was apparent that the host was quite serious about including a rephrased Declaration of the Rights of the People in that of the Summit, with a "draft and proposal" already on the table before the actual discussion began. At least, he had the courtesy of mentioning the possibility of it being ignored while still signing the declaration - part of her expected that he would rather remove polities that do not satisfy his standard just to have all remaining leaders agree to his terms.

"Our gracious host has the gratitude from His Most Serene Majesty for sharing his eloquent view on the subject at hand. Unfortunately, he does not necessarily share the same view." The Regent decided to entertain the host, both out of his hospitality and, frankly, entertainment - any noble worth their salt in the Empire would have to enjoy a good debate, despite what the stereotype of autocracy in the world said otherwise.

"There is little doubt that the Declaration of the Rights of the People is held dear by the general population of Aucuria, as well as countless individuals beyond its border." Although filtered through the interpreters, it appeared that the Regent opted for saying "Deklaracija Žmonių Teisių" directly instead of any translation it might had in Literary Tuthinan. "However, despite - or perhaps precisely because of - the claim of it being 'basic, natural, inherent, universal', its legacy in the Tuthinan Home Islands does not necessarily paint the same rosy garden as our gracious host did."

"It is unfortunate that the honourable Zīgfrīdas Liuterauskas, being a guest to the previous monarch, would have to endure an unexpected prolonged stay during the most turbulent and bloody time of our history." "God-Emperor", a more accurate translation of the monarchical title of her country, would probably not sit well with all other leaders anyway. "That said, he did provide an intriguing glimpse into the mentality of those who were inspired by the Declaration on the archipelago at the time."

"Granted, as mister Liuterauskas concluded in his work - which this one is quite certain that our gracious host had sampled before - the arguments offered by the rebels are not as infallible as they would have liked. However, millions of lost souls could attest that the supposedly universal values that our host would like the leaders of the world to accept did not manifest in the same universality." The Regent takes a sip of her drink, giving precious time for her concise native language to be converted into the more lengthy foreign tongues. Her composure was not harmed in the slightest, possibly to the surprise of Uspelevičius. "In other polities, it may or may not satisfy the ideals of those who created the Declaration about two centuries ago. However, past implementations of it within the Empire resulted in arguably the antithesis of reducing 'pain and suffering' for the general population."

"Beyond what could be objectively observed, His Most Serene Majesty's and his loyal subjects also could not, in good faith, agree to the view of our gracious host that the Declaration describes some form of inalienable natural rights for all human beings. On a physical level, such statement is factually incorrect, as all of those rights can be deprived and denied, either by the authority or, in some cases, others. In fact, is it not true that such deprivation and denial in many polities - some of their leaders present in this very room - that concerns our gracious host in the first place?" Anteko takes another pause for a drink. Times like this made her wish they would serve alcohol in the Summit proper, although it might not be wise to serve some of the more volatile leaders alcohol when in discussion of controversial topics like this. "On a metaphysical level, since my ancestors ventured across the continent against all odds millennia ago, our civilisation has always held the belief that natural rights do not and should not exist. More accurately, it is in our belief - from His Most Serene Majesty himself to his loyal subjects - that such rights only exist in relation to duty, and thus would be more fittingly translated to 'privilege' instead."

"Indeed, despite usually left unstated, the same idea permeates many other polities, some of which our gracious host has invited to this Summit itself. Some call it civic responsibility, some call it civic duty, but the fundamental idea is the same: rights cannot and should not stand on its own without sacrifice in relation to it." The Grand Princess concluded, taking a seat after the last syllable left her lips. "As such, His Most Serene Majesty considers it against our sense of morality to agree to a message that, in our view, violates the sacred moral fabric of our society of all levels. I highly doubt our gracious host, himself being a proponent of respecting the will of the people, would like to make the mistake of enforcing an incompatible idea to an unwilling people he sought to cherish."
Last edited by Tuthina on Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Human Rights Haven (7/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

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Luziyca
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Founded: Nov 13, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:19 pm

Damir Agapov sighed. After the dinner, he had returned to his accommodations, where he planned how to best approach tomorrow's topics: human rights, and implementing the International League. While Luziyca has been characterized by many past Presidents as the leaders of the free world, Agapov knew that not everyone can really agree to the ideals presented by the President of Aucuria.



Agapov had to listen through Uspelevičius' lecture on human rights: how Aucuria revolutionized human rights, how they made it such an ideal that many countries, including his own, seek to emulate. Finally, after what seemed like an eternity of rambling, he finally presented a draft.

Once Uspelevičius' eternal lecture finally came to an end, he listened to the eloquently-worded rebuttal by Anteko. How the implementation of the Rights of the People in Tuthina led to suffering for millions of people, and consequently, will not endorse that whole section.

Agapov organized his thoughts on how he might be able to hammer out a compromise, so once Anteko was done her speech, he may suggest a way to hopefully make most of the autocrats happy without pissing off his democratic allies in Aucuria and Ainin.

Once Anteko was done her speech, Agapov clicked his microphone.

"The Christian Republic, as though as we strongly believe that these rights outlined by His Excellency, Mr. Uspelevičius, should be adopted, the truth is that considering the response made by the Grand Princess of Sakawa, I do not believe that this section can feasibly be passed, with the opposition from the Tuthinan government, and the likely opposition from the governments of Ankoren, Koyro, Nevanmaa, and Xiaodong, just to name a few."

Agapov drank some of his dihydrogen monoxide.

"However, the Christian Republic recognizes that it is important that human rights be recognized, if not for our goodness of their own hearts, to improve their image on the world stage."

"Therefore, the Christian Republic of Luziyca would like to table the following that would certainly satisfy the interests of both the democracies and autocracies of the world. We would keep the first section of the draft as tabled by Mr. Uspelevičius, but we would like to alter the second article so it shall read thus:"
The summit recognizes that all human beings are to be granted specific rights to reward them for their sacrifices that have led up to the present-day political order from the split of the genus Homo from our last common ancestor with the other Great Apes.

"I have high hopes that this wording will be satisfactory to the Aucurians and Tuthinans, as well as every other state at this table, as we humans have made substantial sacrifices, such as our emigration from our place of origin in search of new worlds, to fighting wars, whether they be in the name of some idealistic cause like the unification of Luziyca, to protecting the people from losing their rights like in Tuthina."

"These explorers, whose names have long since been lost to history, left the safety of their communities, whether it be by necessity, circumstance, or just for the sheer fun of it, to discover new worlds. From the first humans who have arrived on Luziyca over a million years ago, to the Monics who made that fateful crossing towards Tuthina to escape hostile tribes from mainland Borea thousands of years ago, they have sailed by sea, or trekked over land to find a new home for themselves, and further propagate the human race. If they had not left their communities, and instead chose to stay at our place of origin, we would not be sitting here at Kalnaspils."

"To deny them and their descendants rights is an affront to why they have left their communities: as many of them have left because of war, famine, or oppression, it would be unfair for them to not reap what they have sown millennia ago: the right to live without fear of being killed because of who they are."

Agapov had some more dihydrogen monoxide.

"Then we have the warriors. Unlike these explorers, whose names are lost to history, almost every nation at this table has had their heroes who we may name. We have Huswa Varanken, who fought to unify the many states of Luziyca under the cause of liberty and unification. Tuthina has Walis Mbing, who fought to stop Tuthinans from being deprived of their right to live, which in my opinion, is the most important human right that we can all have."

"To not grant these warriors their rights after they have fought is wrong: just like how we granted every Luziycan citizen the rights outlined in our Charter of Rights, the Tuthinans gave every subject of the Emperor the right to live without fearing that their lives may be in jeopardy just because of their racial background. It would be an insult to those who sacrificed their lives to not give the rights to the people who they fought for."

He paused for a moment. He kinda wanted to continue his speech, but he knew deep down that he wanted to hear what others had to say.

Click.

Now Agapov waits to see if people mock him.
Last edited by Luziyca on Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:19 pm

Despite being the primary target of her words, Uspelevičius did not seem to react strongly to the Regent disagreeing with arguably the fundamental political ideal of his country. The somewhat forced smile on his face, though, stroked Anteko's pride in her own upbringing as she could not help but feel the superiority of the system that had stood the test of time for more than three millennia. After another sip of her drink, the Regent offered the Aucurian host a satisfied smile and a small nod.

The indulgence, however, was short-lived, as another microphone sprang to life. Agapov was the last person Anteko hoped to enter the discussion, not due to any competency in his debate skill, but his seemingly unfathomable ability to utter the most nonsensical ideas ever conceived by rational mind. Resisting her urge to land her face on her palms, her only noticeable reaction to the proposal was rolling her eyes briefly when the interpreted words reached their nadir.

"While commendable in intention, it is in my regret to inform the honourable representative of Luziyca that His Most Serene Majesty still founds the... amended article insufficient." Anteko moistened her lips with her drink once it had been refilled, thanking the server in process. "While our ancestors have sacrificed much to be entitled their respective privileges, and that their moral teaching ought to be the bedrock of our civilisation, ancestral sacrifice in itself does not negate the need for those who live today to enjoy privilege without the corresponding duty. Indeed, just as most privileges are persistent, so would their corresponding responsibility be in order to sustain them."

"In fact, it is in my belief that our gracious host understands it as much as I do, if I am allowed to make such assumption." Anteko takes a brief pause, turning her gaze upwards and looking upon the six portraits looming over the leaders. "As our gracious host has stated, many Aucurians have made the ultimate sacrifice to advance their cause against ill-rulers in favour of a more egalitarian political system. If the rationale by the honourable representative of Luziyca is to apply, it would amount to saying that Aucurians - now that they have earned the assorted human rights guaranteed by the Aucurian constitution - would no longer need to remain vigilant against aspiring tyrants in the future. Would it not be considered a grave insult to many Aucurians - six of them immortalised in this very room - who are adamant in their faith towards the Declaration and the ideals it sought to uphold?"

The Regent looked towards Uspelevičius again as she finished her speech, both to gauge his reaction and to satisfy her own curiosity of how he would react.
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Human Rights Haven (7/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

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Luziyca
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38290
Founded: Nov 13, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:08 am

He heard another click. Anteko chimed in to respond to his proposal. As she ripped into his argument and tore it to shreds, Agapov knew that he had to organize his rebuttal quickly, and to phrase it in such a manner that he would not offend President Uspelevičius, or other people.

Soon enough, Anteko was done speaking. He now had an obligation to respond.

Click.

"In regards to the statement made by the Most Serene Highness, the Grand Princess of Sakawa, considering that now, we are dealing with societies, which for the most part, have become so specialized, the person who a few centuries ago needs to do multiple things for a living, may now work at an assembly line hammering nails into widgets and still earn his or her keep. Many countries in Esquarium do not have conscription, even during wartime.

"Thus, while the Christian Republic understands the reasoning presented by the Most Serene Highness that people must do specific responsibilities to receive specific privileges, and thus, nobody automatically deserves rights, the fact of the matter is that the Christian Republic believes that some human rights should be respected, mainly the right to life."

He sighed, as he knew that some of the delegates may miscontrue it as him being pro-life, when in fact, he was pro-choice. Regardless, Agapov had another sip of H2O, and continued.

"To answer the question posed by the Most Serene Highness, if they want to remain vigilant and on the lookout for future tyrants that may threaten them, it is their God-given right to remain vigilant. But for most people, who want to live out their lives without fearing that they may be oppressed by tyrants just because of their race, because of circumstances they cannot change, I am almost certain that the average Aucurian may rest now, if they so desire."

"However, considering the points made by the Most Serene Highness, I am willing to amend my proposal, with the hopes that the language in them would appease most of the countries in this room:"

The summit recognizes that all human beings are to be granted specific rights to reward them for their continuing sacrifices to the advancement of the present-day political order, from the split of the genus Homo from our last common ancestor with the other Great Apes, all the way to the present-day, and into the future.

"I believe that the language in the amended section shall be sufficient enough to appease the concerns made by the Tuthinan government, while ensuring that this section will not completely alienate democracies as it does cover the ancestral sacrifices made by our ancestors, as well as the continuing sacrifices made by the many politicians across Esquarium."

His response was now pretty much complete. After going back through what he said, he felt pretty confident that, for the most part, he had articulated everything that he wanted to say.

Now, it was time for him to wait for the inevitable rebuttal made from the Grand Princess of Sakawa... or maybe President Uspelevičius could finally chime in.

Click.
Last edited by Luziyca on Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Namor
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Posts: 3489
Founded: Mar 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Namor » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:49 am

As soon as Uspelevičius introduced the topic on human rights, President-General Antelope stared at the host, trying not to eye leaders in the room who clearly came from countries with far-from-stellar human rights records. He had exited the summit room on the first day with a cautious optimism, having seen that the summit didn't fall apart yet despite the presence of polarizing figures and subjects both.

Reading the quasi-human rights charter proposed by the Aucurian President, Antelope sensed that he wasn't reading anything original. It readily struck him that many of the provisions in Uspelevičius' proposal were extracted from the document that Aucurians prided themselves in the most - the Declaration of the Rights of the People, commonly known in his country as the "Aucurian Declaration." The President-General didn't show a change in facial reaction (he had kept a straight face all along) when Uspelevičius noted how the declaration inspired the Kansist uprising in the later years of the Hao dynasty. That was true, Antelope thought, but the Kansists weren't the romanticized revolutionaries Uspelevičius may have wanted the summit to believe. For all of their idealism, Chen Minko's rebels have been detested by the upper strata of society for their intolerance of beliefs that weren't their's and fervent ethnic nationalism. They were imperfect revolutionaries, whose cause was perfected by the Liberationist Party during the Namorese Civil War. At least that's how Antelope was brought up to believe.

He listened to the Tuthinan rebuttal to Uspelevičius' remarks, before lending an ear to the Luziycan President's...attempt at reaching a compromise. The President-General couldn't believe what he was hearing. Did Agapov really make a reference to apes and warriors? What was he trying to accomplish? His "compromise" made so little sense that Antelope felt like making a rebuttal of his own, but didn't know how because he didn't know what Agapov was talking about.

Once Agapov's second attempt at defending his compromise ended, President-General Antelope turned on his microphone.

"I am glad that President Uspelevičius brought up human rights," he began, suppressing his inner feelings on the matter out of a desire to strike a hospitable tone in a summit that would likely go haywire. "It's a contentious subject, but one that shouldn't be. Indeed, the struggle for humans to live in freedom and dignity has never been restricted to any one region, country, or continent. It is a universal struggle, one whose impact can still be felt in places where some of the most fundamental rights of man are not adequately acknowledged. This summit may have disagreements over the meaning of human rights, or the obligations that supposedly come with human rights, but one thing that I think we can all agree on is that people have rights that cannot be deprived without reason.

"President Uspelevičius' proposed draft on human rights is a good start to the conversation. But I believe a better start to the conversation is a draft that reaffirms our commitment to rights and freedoms that every sensible person can accept, but unfortunately are not fully respected everywhere. These include the right to life, right to equality, freedom from want and freedom from fear. Many of the rights stated in the draft stem from these four cardinal rights, but the summit can play a more constructive role in defending human rights by endorsing these cardinal rights first."
Last edited by Namor on Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Tuthina
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Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:33 am

Anteko took another sip of her drink as the oddly restrained discussion continued. On one hand, the Namorese President-General joining in the discussion was a welcoming change of pace from Agapov and his questionable mental capacity if his words and actions in the summit was of any indication. On the other hand, he did not seem to grasp what her initial argument against Uspelevičius entailed - or, perhaps more likely, simply not caring.

"While I do not intend to iterate, I feel it would be necessary to reaffirm the stance of His Most Serene Majesty on the current topic for the honourable representative of Namo government. As stated at the beginning of this discussion, His Most Serene Majesty and his Empire, in fact, disagree with the notion that 'people have rights that cannot be deprived without reason', both physically and metaphysically." It was probably less prudent than she was supposed to be, but at the same time, some degree of hostility between the two governments was probably expected by both sides, considering that at least the Empire saw the current Namorese polity to be as close as an ideological enemy there was. Still, she was able to maintain a diplomatic look, and most choice of word on her part most probably would be lost after being translated. "As such, His Most Serene Majesty would not, in good faith, agree to the 'four cardinal rights' as mentioned, at least in the context of them being universal rights that all human beings are born with, until the concerns over its ramification raised previously had been sufficiently addressed."
Last edited by Tuthina on Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Human Rights Haven (7/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

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Namor
Minister
 
Posts: 3489
Founded: Mar 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Namor » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:35 pm

The President-General tried to grasp the message that the Tuthinan regent was trying to convey. He had listened and taken notes to the regent's rebuttal to the Aucurian president's address on human rights. Expectedly, the regent was pointing to the civil conflict in her own country that left millions of people dead, allegedly in the name of republicanism. Antelope didn't study Tuthinan history extensively, but from his advisors understood that part of the reason why the absolute monarchy enjoys substantial support in the island state is because the losers of the uprising - the republicans - used human rights to justify ethnic cleansing. Clearly, the rebels did not interpret human rights correctly, but the damage had been done; in a country where obedience to the emperor is tightly enforced, the narrative that human rights is not as bright of a concept that its purveyors portray it to be has been deeply embedded into the national consciousness.

Then there was the regent's reiteration of the belief that - if the President-General interpreted her words correctly - human rights are not inalienable, that they can only exist alongside individual sacrifices to society. Actually, Antelope didn't find that idea hard to understand, given his origin from a culture that, presumably similar to Tuthina's, rejected the notion of taking everything for granted. Yet there was still something the President-General didn't understand about the Tuthinan's argument.

He turned his microphone back on, a diplomatic smile planted on his face.

"The position of the representative from Sakan is that people do not have natural rights, and the rights that we know of are actually privileges that come with civic responsibilities. Although I fundamentally disagree with the idea that rights do not exist, I do not believe the regent's position regarding civic responsibilities is entirely incompatible with mine, nor with the positions of others in the room. The point that I was trying to make is that under most circumstances, people's lives should not be deprived by others. People should not be treated differently from other people. People should not live with obstacles, material or otherwise, that prevent them from living fulfilling lives. Along with that, people should not live in fear.

I regret to say that I am not familiar with the honorable regent's role in administering her state, and I do not pretend to know what her people specifically want. Regardless of where one stands on the question of whether human rights are inherent, however, I daresay that all people, irrespective of their race, nationality or culture, share a few common aspirations, such as living fulfilling lives. Most people do not expect to be the richest or most powerful within their lifetimes, but they want to live in dignity. We all have different ideas on how these aspirations should be met, but that should not make respecting these aspirations difficult.

"Of course, human rights are not equivalent to an absence in social order. We can expect citizens to abide by the law and be responsible to each other, and that citizens who fail to do so will face the consequences, be they legal or otherwise. This goes without saying, if that's what the regent means by civic responsibilities. If she means something else, this would be a great opportunity for her to go into detail."


After he finished, the President-General had a sudden urge to speak with Uspelevičius, to suggest that the draft is better off without strong language, specifically references to "irrevocable" or "inalienable" rights. Not that the Antelope didn't believe in inalienable human rights or anything else the Aucurian President had written on the draft, but if the ideologue wanted to make any progress in promoting human rights in the summit, he might as well promote it in a manner that doesn't alienate. Too much.
Last edited by Namor on Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:22 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:39 am

As the debate continued, the difference between Anteko - and her country, by extension - with the rest of the participants became once again apparent in her mind. While her, like many of the higher-ranking nobles and dedicated civil servants, had been educated and trained in a way so as to know the cultural difference between her country and more or less the rest of the world, it was nonetheless something that most of them could not truly understand or comprehend.

"Well-articulated, honourable President-General. That is why unlawful killing within His Most Serene Majesty's Empire is, in fact, subjected to prosecution. However, I believe a key word in the criteria laid out by the representative of Namo government is 'under most circumstances'. While I am aware that many polities have since abandoned capital punishment, my country disagree in that regard. Similarly, it is in our belief that some individuals indeed should be treated differently, such as exceptional individuals whose honours and merits have been recognised, and criminals who have willingly abandoned human dignity or had actively tarnished that of others." The Regent responded, "While it is fortunate that such cases are a rarity within the Empire, and presumably most other polities as well, it nonetheless showed that those rights are not and should not be inalienable, irrevocable or inviolable."

"Regarding the inquiry on 'civic responsibility', a term that I have used to describe the form of individual sacrifice that some countries opted for, I am fully aware that different polities and cultures have different notions regarding them. Under the rule of the Namo government, for example, it might simply mean 'abide by the law and be responsible to each other', as stated by its honourable representative. I do not claim to represent other countries, but at least under the rule of His Most Serene Majesty, our society is much less egalitarian, for it is in our belief that individual capability should be awarded - our notion of what is just and fair, if you may. More often shared by fellow monarchies, we see it fit to divide our society into various ranks, from the highest Imperial family that I am bestowed upon, to the well-educated scholar-gentlemen that have proven their wealth of knowledge, to the simplest commoners and other social class that abstain from unbearable responsibility in exchange for a simpler life." Anteko explained, "As it should be, different social rank in our society are expected different amount of sacrifice, or responsibility, in exchange of their privilege and rights. Beyond the border of the Empire, different countries most probably expect different civic duty from their citizens regardless of ranks, as well. Some might ask for them to oversee judicial process, some might ask for them to serve in its military branch. As such, I do not think it will be prudent for the declaration to attempt defining what every individuals in every society has, or ought to have."
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Human Rights Haven (7/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

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Namor
Minister
 
Posts: 3489
Founded: Mar 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Namor » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:51 am

The President-General hooked his cup of water by the tip of his lips as the regent expounded her view of fair treatment and civic responsibilities. There may be philosophical differences preventing Tuthina from accepting human rights, and the President-General himself didn't exactly understand the Aucurian host's interpretation; still, he thought he could explain human rights in a way that the regent - and the Tuthinan nobility by default - can accept in accordance with her own principles.

"I think the primary issue is that the regent is contrasting human rights and social harmony, when the reality is the two are not inherently contradictory. For example, you mentioned treating 'exceptional individuals' differently from criminals. This has nothing to do with human rights; in any society, people of accomplishment should have their merits recognized, and criminals who harm the dignity of other people should be punished. This is a view shared by all peoples. When we say 'rights are inalienable, irrevocable or inviolable,' we do not mean one should go unpunished for committing a crime, which, depending on its severity, may constitute a violation of human rights itself.

"I am aware that people in Tuthina are divided into various ranks. Based on this, you assume people should have more rights based on what class they belong to. I doubt this is a characteristic inherent in monarchies, because I know many monarchies where human rights are guaranteed and slavery doesn't exist. Furthermore, going back to my point about common aspirations, I seriously doubt members in the lowest echelons of any society do not aspire to live without fear and want as much as their compatriots who are better-off, and therefore do not deserve to live without fear and want - if this is the idea you were trying to convey.

"I wholeheartedly agree it would be foolish to dictate what others should do. I cannot fathom a declaration every five years telling Namorese who they should elect for President-General or Central Council, or a declaration telling Tuthinans to overthrow their emperor."
As the President-General said this, he could not help thinking he actually wanted Tuthina to democratize, but suppressed that thought. "But this subject concerns aspirations interwoven with human nature. If you agree it is not immoral for people to want fulfilling lives, to live in dignity, then accepting the concept of human rights shouldn't be a difficult task. Bearing in mind, of course, that the rule of law and civic responsibility are beyond question."

He took another sip of water.
Last edited by Namor on Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Luziyca
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Postby Luziyca » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:27 am

Agapov was disappointed by Anteko's lack of response to his proposal, as he wanted to engage in conversation with her. Nonetheless, he soon was interrupted by the Namorese President-General. Shohai started to engage in a debate with the Grand Princess of Sakawa.

First, Shohai had tabled a proposal for the "four cardinal rights," which Agapov may have been inclined to agree with. Of course, Anteko felt that it was not enough as it failed to address her concerns for duties. Shohai then went on to ask her to clarify her meaning of duty, which Anteko was happy to provide, including some examples outside Tuthina, such as conscription, and in particular, jury duty. Then he listened to Shohai's rebuttal.

During that time, he began pondering on how best to comment on these recent developments. Silently, he cursed himself for forgetting to bring a few aides with him, and for not realizing that he was a fucking moron.

He brought his cup of water to his lips, opened his mouth just a smidge, and in a few moments, the cup was empty. Soon enough, he set the empty cup aside so it may be refilled by the Aucurian staffers, who were no doubt getting real tired of Agapov's antics, whatever they were. However, just as the cup was returned with water, the Namorese President-General was finished speaking. Knowing that it was probably now time to respond to the recent developments, he clicked on the microphone, to alter his proposed amendment yet again to accommodate the recent discussions.

"In light of the current discussion between the Most Serene Highness, the Grand Princess, and His Excellency, the President-General of Namor, the Christian Republic shall amend its proposal to accommodate their interests, as well as, I hope, everyone else who is in this room."

2. The summit recognizes that all human beings shall have the three fundamental rights: the right to life, to live with dignity, and to live without fear
  1. These rights can only be violated if the offender has committed and is convicted of a crime that violates any or all of these three principles
3. The summit recognizes that all human beings are to be given further rights, provided that they fulfill their civic duties to the best of their abilities.
  1. Allows all countries to define these rights and civic duties in accordance with their national customs, provided they don't conflict with the three fundamental rights in an unjustified manner

While he knew the Aucurians would hate it, Agapov felt that this was the only feasible way that a section on human rights can get passed, let alone included in the Kalnaspils Declaration. The only other option, he felt, would have been to just ignore that section and risk angering many Aucurians for not "discussing the matter."

He wondered whether to keep speaking, but deciding that he had said what he wanted to say in this present moment, he clicked the microphone.
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Tuthina
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Postby Tuthina » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:18 am

"So, if I am not mistaken, by 'rights are inalienable, irrevocable or inviolable', it is actually meant to be interpreted as 'rights are not inalienable, irrevocable or inviolable'? Because if I am not mistaken, then 'inalienable, irrevocable or inviolable' means they are not to be surrendered, revoked or violated, especially given the current draft declaring that 'they cannot justly be deprived or denied'. If the interpretation of the honourable representative of Namo government is correct, then I would like to suggest the wording of the declaration be changed to better reflect its actual meaning." The Regent cannot help but feel suspicious of the intention of human rights issues being included in the declaration, seeing that it has little to do with international cooperation - at least the kind that does not include enforcing it on polities that were unwilling to accept the criteria given by those more fervent about the issue.

"Regarding the common aspiration, I cannot help but feel that it is heavily dependent on what kind of rights the honourable President-General is proposing based on those four cardinal rights. While some seem rather intuitive - freedom of life most probably involves a ban on unlawful killing according to the legal system of a particular polity, the idea of 'freedom from want' would be meaningless in itself without expanding on what it truly entails. From what I am taught, the most common definition seems to suggest that all individuals ought to be entitled 'an adequate standard of living', including foodstuff and housing. Assuming that such definition is indeed what is being proposed, then I am afraid that His Most Serene Majesty would not agree to it. While we are aware that many polities have opted for some degree of social welfare that sought to guarantee it, as I have stated before, his Empire and his subjects do not believe all human beings are entitled to anything by default. If one is to be irresponsible with their resource so that they cannot sustain an adequate living by themselves, then it is difficult to see why others - either through work or taxation - should be asked to support them." Despite what was implied, charity did exist within the Empire, primarily under the provision of the Imperial Cult. However, apart from it being theoretically a private or semi-private organisation, the fact that their facilities nonetheless required those who seek shelter to still provide labour in exchange of food and residence still made it a far cry from a guaranteed right. "Freedom from fear, similarly, suffers from a similar predicament, as fearlessness can be both unenforceable and sometimes undesirable. On a practical level, His Most Serene Majesty's Empire - or any polity, for that matter - does not currently possess technology that can make one free from fear as far as I know, and I would imagine such hypothetical technology would be indistinguishable from brainwashing. On a metaphysical level, would fearlessness really be something desirable? After all, legal deterrence appear to serve as the foundation of many legal systems in the world, or at least make use of it alongside other goals for a justice system. Some - including the esteemed theologians of the Imperial Cult - would even argue that fear itself is a fundamental part of humanity, but that would be a digression ill suited for this summit. Overall, a clearer definition of those cardinal rights and what they should entail in actual policy would be much appreciated."

"In conclusion, I believe that His Most Serene Majesty's fundamental disagreement with the current draft as it stands is the emphasis on its universality and irrevocability. Indeed, this applies to both that by our gracious host, and by the honourable representative of Luziyca. It would be imprudent of me to agree to sections of the declaration where such alarming ambiguity is left unaddressed."
Last edited by Tuthina on Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Aucuria » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:45 am

"I would like to thank President-General Antelope, President Agapov, and the Regent for their contributions," Uspelevičius began, turning on his microphone, "But with all due respect, Regent, I would question whether or not the crimes of a few individuals in Tuthinan history inherently mean that human rights would not work there. History is riddled with examples of men who used the doctrine of natural rights as a means to power without actually believing in them, or having any intent to fulfill their promises. Katurou Imahara took power claiming his desire was to preserve the newly-won liberty of the Senrian people, Lu Keqian claimed his goal was to guarantee that the Xiaodongese people would have a government that respected them, and yet the regimes they establised could hardly be said to adhere to the promises of human rights. Aucuria has its own examples of such men; Žygimantas Ramanauskas established a brutal military regime that showed no respect for liberty or democracy in the late 1800s, even though his regime pretended to lionize the founders of the republic. I would thus posit that maybe the fact that the leaders of the Tuthinan insurgency did not live up to the values they claimed to espouse is not proof that human rights are inherently incompatible with Tuthinan culture, but instead merely proves that there are individuals who will say anything and everything if they think it will help them satisfy their lust for power."

"Regarding the concept that human rights are inalienable, your example does not actually prove that article two is factually incorrect. What is meant by the statement 'human rights are inalienable' is that these rights exist even when they are denied or ignored. An individual has the right to freedom of speech, even if they are jailed for criticizing a government official; the government is simply ignoring that right. An individual has the right to a fair trial, even if they are going to be summarily executed; the government is simply ignoring that right. Put simply, a government ignoring or denying a right does not mean that said right does not exist; it just means that the government is failing to uphold said right. Rights exist independent of whether or not a government upholds them."

"You also argue that article two is wrong because there are places where human rights are denied; however, I will note that the declaration does not say that human rights cannot be denied. It says that human rights cannot be justly denied. In short, the article does acknowledge there are places where human rights are not respected, and it establishes that such places are acting unjustly. As such your claim that article two is 'factually incorrect' falls flat."

"Finally, the concept that civic duty is somehow mutually exclusive with human rights- if I am to understand your final argument correctly, that Tuthinan culture has a concept of civic duty and privileges- civic duty is not mutually exclusive with human rights. It is entirely possible for both concepts to coexist, and they do in much of Nordanoconitia, where individuals both have civil rights such as freedom of speech and freedom of thought, and civic duties such as voting and sitting on juries. It is possible for both concepts to coexist without tearing the moral fabric of society to shreds."

"I will... consider adding the suggestions made by President Agapov to the summit declaration," he concluded. "I would also like to hear any further suggestions, most especially from some of the delegates who have been quiet during this discussion."
Last edited by Aucuria on Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Qianrong » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:40 pm

Hayato Nisimura switched on his microphone and began talking. "Honorable President Uspelevičius, I must object to your mischaracterization of the honorable Grand Marshal Imahara," he began, his voice curt and formal. "You noted earlier how the Senrian revolutionaries under Ryuunosuke Miyamoto were inspired by your Declaration, and what you say on that is true, but it was forces under Marshal Imahara that scored the greatest victory of the Senrian Revolution, by capturing the final emperor and forcing his abdication. He was elected Chairman of the Government of National Preservation by the broadly representative and democratic Council of the Senrian State, and kept the Senrian Republic alive during its darkest hour. After the war, he was elected Prime Minister in an open, democratic election in which his opposition was unfettered and the rights of the people were respected. Whatever actions he took against treasonous forces within Senria was temporary, legal, and wholly justified by the threat that those forces posed not only to the liberty but to the very survival of the Senrian people. If it had not been for Marshal Imahara, Senrian liberty and the Senrian nation would not exist."

And I imagine Yuan Xiannian pleasures himself with thoughts of such a world to no end, Nisimura thought acerbically.

He cleared his throat before continuing. "With regards to the current topic of discussion, the Senrian government has no issues with the proposals made by the most honorable and respect Regent of Tuthina, and by the honorable President of Luziyca." He then switched off his microphone.
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Tuthina
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Postby Tuthina » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:34 pm

Although the smile remained diplomatic, the Regent was genuinely pleased that Uspelevičius managed to muster up a response despite the signs of nervousness, especially following the less-than-stellar performance of his Luziycan counterpart. Even though the arguments he offered was not as logically sound as those regularly observed among nobles within the Empire, it was not terribly common for someone appointed by commoner mandate to achieve that degree of logical thought, which appeared to be eschewed in favour of vague, grand terms without substance. "Our gracious host has the gratitude of this one for his response. That said, it is nonetheless necessary for me to clarify certain statements addressed by our gracious host."

"First, regarding the terrible outcome of our civil war caused by republican rebels, I have reserves about whether it is truly caused by the 'crimes of a few individuals'. While it is true that none of the major rebel factions managed to uphold their popular mandate due to high intensity of the conflict, millions of individuals nonetheless willingly joined the rebellion, the explicit purpose of which being to overthrow the time-tested monarchy in favour of a government system fundamentally inspired by the Declaration of the Rights of the People." The Regent stated, "The honourable Zīgfrīdas Liuterauskas had noted insufficiency in both logic and morality of a particularly genocidal faction, but said faction nonetheless genuinely believed in their cause despite that, which is something that all sides - even His Most Serene Majesty's government agree. If 'misapplications' of an ideology are excluded from interpreting its result, then all ideologies would be more or less equally valid. However, I do not think that many honourable representative, especially our gracious host, would be inclined to believe in the benefit of an absolute monarchy simply because it had worked in other countries, including that of my own."

"Obviously, examples of republicanism being attempted within the Imperial realm were few and far in-between, making it difficult to conclude the likelihood of the result not being in favour of the more popular, rosy view of it shared by our gracious host. However, given that the last 'experiment' have caused tens of millions of untimely death and almost destroyed our civilisation, I am rather not inclined towards another attempt of it, and it is in my hope that none of the honourable representatives present would want to risk the life of millions of individuals simply for the questionable prospect of proving the universality of an ideology."

"Another statement that has become necessary to be addressed is that human rights remains in existence even if it is rejected or violated by authority. As I have stated previously, the question becomes why would human rights still be a fundamental aspect of humanity, as it seems to be implied to be, if it can be violated on a regular basis with negligible, if any drawback. If it is not something that can be objectively observed to be in existence - especially given its moral nature - and that it is not observed in all cultures and polities, then it becomes quite difficult for me to see how can it still exists as a fundamental part of humanity, or why its deprivation would be considered unjust - assuming that it is deprived in the first place, and not simply non-existent to begin with."

"Regarding the final counterargument of our gracious host, I would like to clarify that I do not believe civic duty to be mutually exclusive to human rights - in fact, I stated that they cannot, and should not be separated from each other. The fundamental conflict in this case, in my opinion, is that as privileges should only be granted to individuals who have both the ability and will to uphold the relevant sacrifice - duty and responsibility in more vernacular term - the logical conclusion must be that one who cannot, or otherwise choose not to uphold them should not receive any rights as a result. While it is obviously that authority can force its population to offer sacrifice in exchange of certain sets of rights in return, I cannot help but think that the very idea of forcing someone to do so against their ability and will to be an immoral action." Anteko paused a little for the interpreters to catch up. "Though, if our gracious host is to insist the existence of human rights despite my arguments, I would recommend that the term used to describe it to be changed from 'irrevocable and inviolable' to 'inalienable' as I did. By definition, it is factually incorrect to state that they are irrevocable and inviolable if they can indeed by revoked and violated."
Last edited by Tuthina on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Nevamaa » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:33 am

The King stood up:

"As the King of the Nevan Realm, I can not and will not support any proposal that grants individuals rights or liberties that exist independently of the state, whether the form of government of the said state is republican or monarchist. Nor will I accept any declaration that tries to promote egalitarian ideals that try to make equal those who God created unequal. A lord, a burgher and a peasant can never enjoy the same rights and obligations, much like a child can't enjoy the same rights as their parents."
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:18 am

"Where's that duchess bitch when you need her?" Cao thought to himself after hearing the sudden interruption of the Nevan king, who, it seems, decided to wake from his slumber and urinate on everyone's cereal.

Clearing his throat, he prepared to speak. Unlike Aucuria, where the flame of revolutionary republicanism continues to burn bright, Ainin's had long been extinguished by, amongst other things, a massacre, a coup d'état, a dictatorship, a cultural genocide and a reactionary constitutional revision. Aininian leaders were therefore not particularly fond of moralistic preaching on human rights, except when diplomatically convenient of course. This, unfortunately, was not a particularly convenient time.

"Mr. President," Cao respectfully began, "the Aininian Republic shares Aucuria's deep concern for the rights of all mankind. We also recognise that not all nations share these same convictions. While we find that regrettable, we believe that lingering on such a fundamental disagreement without any genuine," he said with extra emphasis on the last word while turning his gaze to the Luziycan president, "solution will be unable to yield an effective consensus. However, we do believe that the language proposed by President-General Antelope is constructive and could, perhaps with reservations, form a basis for the final text of the Declaration."

He then turned to the Regent.

"If I may ask, if Your Highness were compelled to write some language for the declaration on the topic of rights and responsibilities, what would such a draft roughly look like?"
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Postby Luziyca » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:56 pm

After Agapov was done speaking, he listened to the Grand Princess of Sakawa responding to both him and to Uspelevičius' proposals. He agreed with her when she hoped that "none of the honourable representatives present would want to risk the life of millions of individuals simply for the questionable prospect of proving the universality of an ideology."

Once she was done yet another eloquent speech, Agapov was about to integrate her responses into his proposal when His Pompousness, Juhani of Nevanmaa stood up and said something that was incredibly crude and disrespectful. If he wanted to further humiliate himself and his country in such a room, he would have decided to strangle him right then and there.

But of course, he did not. Instead, he prayed to God that this torture would end soon, and that anyone else could contribute.

And his salvation came in the form of Cao Nima. While he acknowledged that his country shared the same concerns as Aucuria, he recognized that lingering on such a disagreement without any genuine solution would not exactly lead to consensus. He then asked the Grand Princess of Sakawa how she would draft the proposal on rights and responsibilities.

All while that was going around, Damir Agapov worked on amending his proposal. After all, he felt that it was, by far, the only real path that could remotely come close to achieving any sort of consensus. As much as he'd like to deem it a waste of time, he knew that he had to keep amending his proposal until either everyone is pissed off at him, or until they can agree on something. Finally, his new draft was completed, reading as follows:

2. The summit recognizes that all human beings shall have the inalienable rights of life, to receive basic sustenance and basic housing; and to be secure from all threats against the average person from the state or by other persons
  1. Defines basic sustenance as receiving three meals of 500 Calories per day, or a total of 1,500 Calories, at a bare minimum
  2. Defines basic housing as having five square meters (53.8195521 square feet) with a bed and a stove
  3. These rights can only be violated if the offender has committed and is convicted of a crime that violates any or all of these rights
3. The summit recognizes that all human should be given additional rights, provided that they fulfill their civic duties to the best of their abilities.
  1. Allows all countries to define these additional rights and civic duties in accordance with their national customs, provided they don't conflict with the three fundamental rights in an unjustified manner


He knew that perhaps he was forgetting a few things, and while he felt that perhaps he should speak and explain himself to the rest of the room, he felt that his proposal to the section on human rights is, at the very least, one step closer towards completion.
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Tuthina
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Postby Tuthina » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:04 am

"While His Most Serene Majesty sees the ideal scenario is to not consider this an issue that would require international cooperation, a declaration with a more refined wording can be condoned as well, if you may, honourably representative of Ainin." The Regent answered Cao before turning her attention towards her aide. As she began to talk to him in Literary Tuthinan, the secretary servant laid his fingers on his laptop computer as well. It did not take long for a draft of their own to be prepared, translated and distributed.

1. The attendees of the Fourth Esquarian Summit recognise that humans are fundamentally different from the rest of known lifeforms originating in Esquarium, being endowed with both sentience and sapience, as well as want for happiness and better life beyond simple subsistence.

2. The Summit recognises the innate ability for humans to reason and seek happiness, and that certain privileges ought to be granted to them to assist their endeavour.

3. The Summit acknowledges the vast difference in culture, tradition, morality and governing system between polities within Esquarium, as well as their different interpretation in degree of innate privileges for human individuals.

4. The Summit respects the rights for each polity to determine the most appropriate way to promote human happiness in regards to the unique culture and tradition of their society.

5. The Summit encourages all attending polities to provide the minimum privileges to foreign citizens within their territory to the best of their ability in respect to privileges of such individuals within all relevant polities.
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:02 pm

After glancing over the language, Cao briefly mulled it over. On one hand, the draft was far more reasonable than he would have expected, although his expectations were probably negatively influenced by the King of Nevanmaa's delusional rant, but on the other, the notion of human rights as 'privileges' would be contradictory to the liberal-democratic construction that Ainin subscribed to, at least out of convenience owing to its position of leadership in that bloc. While he was willing to adopt most of the Tuthinan regent's language into the final declaration, there was some wording that had to change so that he wouldn't be chided by Lotbinière for selling out the liberal democratic world's principles to the Tuthinans upon his return to Huimont.

"Thank you, Your Highness," Cao replied while completely ignoring the Luziycan president's idiotic draft.

"While Ainin is prepared to accept most of the language presented in this latest draft into the final declaration of the Esquarian Summit," he began, "We must also note that the notion that the categorisation of what the liberal democratic world considers to be human rights as 'privileges' has connotations that are antithetical to the way that they are construed in many of our own societies, as a privilege is almost antonymous to a right. While we may argue semantics on the meaning of privileges for a very long time, the fact of the matter is that the connotative properties of this word are problematic, and I believe unacceptable, for many of our governments and peoples. So I recommend that we do not cast judgement on the nature of these 'rights' or 'privileges' and instead refer them by a term that does not have connotations either way, such as 'freedoms' or 'liberties', as both concepts far predate the concept of natural rights while still embodying its spirit."
Last edited by Ainin on Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Tuthina
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Postby Tuthina » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:02 pm

"His Most Serene Majesty sees no issue with the proposed change of terms by the honourable representative of Ainin." The Regent responded. In truth, the choice of wording itself was not a deliberate attempt by her to smuggle a statement into the declaration, but simply an issue of translation due to Literary Tuthinan - at least the officially-regulated one - had a rather limited lexicon regarding such issues. While her interpreter failed circumvent the issue, the fact that Anteko herself knew the foreign tongue allowed her to understand what Cao stated without problems.
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Luziyca
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:44 pm

As Agapov listened to Anteko's response to Cao Nima's response, she seemed to have adequately addressed the concerns of many world leaders in this room. When Cao Nima read it, he seemed satisfied: the only request was to change privileges to freedoms, which was duly granted by the Grand Princess of Sakawa.

"As the Christian Republic is confident that the proposal made by the Most Serene Highness provides an adequate compromise between the views presented by our gracious hosts in Kalnaspils, and by the autocracies in this room, the Christian Republic shall endorse the proposal made by the Most Serene Highness, with the changes recommended by His Excellency, the President of Ainin. In addition, the Christian Republic shall withdraw its proposal from consideration."
Last edited by Luziyca on Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aucuria
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Aucuria » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:52 pm

"I am sorry, but I don't think I could allow articles 3 and 4 of the text proposed by the honorable Grand Princess to enter into the proposed draft," Uspelevičius said while shaking his head. "I think it's clear that these article would be widely used by... certain kinds of regimes to justify the violation and ignoring of inalienable human rights, and that is firstly wholly contrary to the point of a human rights declaration, and secondly utterly unacceptable to myself and, I believe, to the vast majority of the people I represent. It would be a bastardization of the greatest sort for this summit's attempt at promoting human rights to, in fact, legitimize and excuse human rights abuses through these articles."
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Luziyca
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Founded: Nov 13, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:56 am

Agapov lowered his head into his arms when he heard Uspelevičius refuse the proposed Articles 3 and 4 into the draft, and let out an audible sigh. As much as he wanted to give a speech saying that Uspelevičius sucks, or something along those lines, he knew that he had to at least pretend to be somewhat diplomatic. After tossing aside an idea to refuse to sign the declaration without these articles lest the Aucurians find a reason to remove Luziycan military bases from Aucuria, and wording things carefully to avoid offending Ankoren, he chirped up.

"Considering the refusal of our gracious hosts to implement Articles 3 and 4 of the proposal made by the Most Serene Highness, in spite of the fact that it has been approved by Ainin, Tuthina, and the Christian Republic, I believe that any attempts at achieving any further compromise will be futile, especially when you are dealing with autocracies like Nevanmaa and Xiaodong, and totalitarian states like Koyro, who are present in this room."

"Instead, I think that we should give the proposed International League the, admittedly unenviable task of writing up a human rights declaration, so we may move on towards the next topic."


He checked his watch. Hopefully, it didn't go past lunch...
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Namor
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Founded: Mar 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Namor » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:53 am

President-General Antelope read the Regent Anteko's version of the draft. He didn't find it too offensive to attendants in the summit that have an interest in promoting human rights, though its language was clearly intended to give countries with questionable human rights records some space to continue their abuses with impunity.

"I concur with President Uspelevičius's objections to certain aspects of the regent's draft. While the proposed draft adequately addresses the human need to live in happiness and dignity, which is the basis of all human rights, I am concerned that some parts of it, specifically the third and fourth articles, will be used by certain governments to justify abuses against their citizens that are unjustifiable by any measure.

"I am also in favor of referring to these rights not as privileges, but as freedoms or liberties as proposed by President Cao. While I - and perhaps many in this room - stick with the fact that rights exist and people are entitled to enjoy them, referring to these rights as 'freedoms' allows this summit to avoid unnecessarily long debates over what 'privileges' entail."


He cleared his throat before continuing. He wanted to bring up another topic that could save from the summit from confining itself in a gridlock over what certain words meant, or which sentences should or should not be on the final declaration.

"Also...it appears that none of the drafts concerning human rights that were proposed in this summit touched upon the struggles of the people mentioned in the summit agenda, whom President Uspelevičius correctly referred to as 'the world's most vulnerable groups.' I am talking about refugees, displaced persons, and the stateless, whose aspirations for a better and dignified live have been routinely suppressed. It is my hope that we can move beyond semantics and have a productive conversation about this, because this summit cannot make any real progress on preserving and promoting human liberty without addressing the plight of humanity's most vulnerable members."

He turned his microphone, reached for his cup of water and drank from it.
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Ainin
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ainin » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:27 am

"Thank you for your remarks, Mr. President-General," Cao replied after taking a few minutes to have aides type up a proposal. He was beginning to become annoyed at the standstill pace of the discussion, and hoped to bring it to a quick end. He couldn't speak for any of the other leaders, but he was hungry and wanted lunch.

"While Ainin does see the validity of the concerns, we do not believe that it would be dangerous to simply affirm that some countries have a different understanding of human liberties than our construction of unalienable rights, as this is an objective fact that has been made nakedly apparent in the course of this discussion."

"Furthermore, I do not believe that firm language based on our worldview, not shared by some attendees of this summit, would be able to adopted by consensus and I think that pursuing such a line would be an exercise in futility. I'd like to propose the following draft, with Clause 6 serving as an explicit understanding that this is not intended as a concrete declaration of the values of the international community but merely as a consensus for a starting point."

1. The attendees of the Fourth Esquarian Summit recognise that humans are fundamentally different from the rest of known lifeforms in the universe, being endowed with the capacity to reason and the desire to achieve happiness and an emotionally, culturally and socially fulfilling life.

2. The Summit recognises that the pursuit of happiness is an innate portion of the human condition and that this endeavour ought to be facilitated by all governments through the enumeration and promotion of a series of freedoms.

3. The Summit acknowledges the vast ethical, cultural and historical differences across nations, and that this may result in variance in the methods and philosophical justifications employed in the promotion of this universal goal.

4. Pursuant to this goal, the Summit urges nations to take affirmative action to empower groups who have historically been deprived of their human needs as a result of inequality.

5. The Summit encourages the development of regional and multilateral efforts to promote and enhance human freedom and affirms the importance of proposed and extant institutions dedicated to this purpose, such as the International League and the Esquarian Community.

6. The Summit resolves on behalf of the international community to remain actively seized on this issue.
Last edited by Ainin on Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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