Mashallah, Dawn Has Arrived [Septentrion, OOC]

[Murovanka]

Also, I take it that you and Soode will duke it out in the seas, then.

In all seriousness, though, the Soodean Imperium probably would not commit to immediate conventional warfare - Ummayah is strategically located but not worth risking world war over as long as other alternatives exist. If Gaul jumps right into airstrikes on government targets, the Soodean government would first issue diplomatic denunciations and such. Then it would start shadowing Gauliscian carriers with patrol aircraft and intelligence ships disguised as trawlers, all while stepping up arms sales to government forces. Only if these warnings fail would it resort to combined attacks by submarines, aircraft, and surface warships - in which, as you stated, the Imperial Soodean Navy would rely heavily on land-based assets (especially aircraft) to offset its deficiency in aircraft carriers.

I'm actually not sure if the Soodean government would go so far as to land its own forces in Ummayah. It would benefit from immediate access to government ports, allowing it to ship in heavy units from day one, but the Soodean Army has been pivoted toward conventional warfare on its own territory from 2005 or so and hasn't invested in light expeditionary units or long-term counterinsurgency planning. Its main contributions would be less direct: launching airstrikes on rebel forces, supplying heavy weapons and command advisers to government troops, and patrolling the western approaches to present an obstacle for any interventionist fleet. Like open naval warfare, landing troops would presumably be a last-ditch measure if nothing else can save the situation.

In other news, I found my copy of FM 100-63, so I am now in a better position to flesh out info on the government's forces.

Yeah, that's what I meant, I'd assume you would hold back from directly fighting each other for as long as possible, maybe Soodean pilots half-heartedly disguised as Ummayan ones strike rebel/al-Kabaab/Gauliscian/NT forces, which would be as far as the engagement goes initially. Whether it'll escalate, that we can leave open.

So I take it that we'll start with al-Kabaab bombings and perhaps the rebels and terrorists seizing a few important cities, and continue from there?

[Gauliscia]

Noted Muro, I'm after a good story only. I won't be going all gung-ho anyway so while we conduct strikes on the kebabs, it'll give us told to think about choosing a faction. It would be rather fun if a Gauliscian battalion gets surrounded by a teeming pack of Ummayad savages and annihilated.

[Murovanka]

Noted Muro, I'm after a good story only. I won't be going all gung-ho anyway so while we conduct strikes on the kebabs, it'll give us told to think about choosing a faction. It would be rather fun if a Gauliscian battalion gets surrounded by a teeming pack of Ummayad savages and annihilated.

It would be interesting if you all first bombed al-Kabaab together, while Gaul and NT use it as a cover to arm, assist and land help for the rebels.

[New Tyran]

Ummayah doesn't seem to be that far away from my former colony of Khalistan a puppet of mine. So I'd probably launch my operations from that country.

[Achesia]

So I kinda want to get at least some shots in. Im thinking after the attacks in Aurde on Deus Vult that I roll an SSGN over to Ummayah and level a few camps or kill some al Kaabab leadership.

[Murovanka]

Ummayah doesn't seem to be that far away from my former colony of Khalistan a puppet of mine. So I'd probably launch my operations from that country.

That works fine.

So I kinda want to get at least some shots in. Im thinking after the attacks in Aurde on Deus Vult that I roll an SSGN over to Ummayah and level a few camps or kill some al Kaabab leadership.

Aren't you close to getting overstretched with the number of RP's your committed to? I am, nearly, once a pile of work hits me I'm not sure what I'll do... but vacation in two weeks, so should be ok. It'll get worse for me later on anyway, might as well do what I can here. Anyway, I've got enough people bombing me (and my dear al-Kabaab), tyvm

[Achesia]

Ummayah doesn't seem to be that far away from my former colony of Khalistan a puppet of mine. So I'd probably launch my operations from that country.

That works fine.

So I kinda want to get at least some shots in. Im thinking after the attacks in Aurde on Deus Vult that I roll an SSGN over to Ummayah and level a few camps or kill some al Kaabab leadership.

Aren't you close to getting overstretched with the number of RP's your committed to? I am, nearly, once a pile of work hits me I'm not sure what I'll do... but vacation in two weeks, so should be ok. It'll get worse for me later on anyway, might as well do what I can here. Anyway, I've got enough people bombing me (and my dear al-Kabaab), tyvm

I'm just talking one post, to ya kno, show the flag. Lol

Plus I'm dropping out of a couple because they have failed to maintain my interest lol, or many other ppls interest for that matter.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Also, I really don't like how Ummayah has apparated several thousand kilometers eastwards which might make it a bit unrealistic for Gaul and NT, but for canon purposes we could maybe handwavium it so that it's half the distance.

Both Gaul and NT have carriers, don't they? Strike aircraft launched from a carrier-battlegroup would be more than adequate if retaliatory gunboat diplomacy is your only goal, and against a less-than-competent air force a carrier maintaining proper radio discipline and constantly shifting its location is all but invisible.

Another option would be to negotiate access to ports and airfields in neighboring countries. I don't know what Pillowlandia's stance on the issue is, but they would be the most valuable ally. Qusayn is supportive toward the Ummayah regime but is too poor to send troops or anything, and it might allow some foreign aircraft to use its airbases to strike al-Kabaab forces in exchange for a very generous offer of development funds... by which I mean, helping a few government officials "develop" their property...

Ummayah doesn't seem to be that far away from my former colony of Khalistan a puppet of mine. So I'd probably launch my operations from that country.

Measuring on the map, it would be at least 2,500 kilometers from Khalistan to Ummayah, assuming the aircraft divert course to stay out of Qusayni airspace. Which would require multiple in-air refuelings for fighters and light bombers but is doable.

Sounds fair enough. Gauliscia will be conducting major air attacks on the Ummayan military as our fleet approaches and this realised its presence will not be welcome. A possible cause for war with Ummayah itself would you shooting down one of our recon UAVs or bombers on their raids. Our navy is still staffed by veterans of the Wanko-Gauliscia war, so it is by all accounts a formidable force.

The Imperial Soodean Navy also recently (Fall 2014) engaged in a victorious war with Innominada - hence its current partitioned state. But this has mainly had the effect of making its officers overconfident about their ability to intimidate interventionist fleets out of the area.

I do like the idea of a drone shoot-down as grounds for escalation, though. Maybe Gauliscian forces would begin with airstrikes against insurgent targets in areas under de-facto al-Kabaab control, which the government can't do much to oppose anyway. Obviously the regime is miffed about having its airspace violated, but they benefit more from sitting back and making empty denunciations while one of their peskiest rivals gets bombed into oblivion, as opposed to attacking Gauliscian aircraft and provoking an even harder conflict.

If they extend their missions beyond al-Kabaab controlled areas, though, the regime (with Soodean support) might try to gamble on pushing them back. Perhaps an Ummayan or Soodean fighter jet would shoot down a Gauliscian UAV that appeared to be surveying government troop positions, thinking that this would be interpreted as a warning shot and underestimating how Gauliscian forces would react to an attack on their military property. Or, plot twist - what the Ummayan government radar operators thought was a drone was actually a manned aircraft, whose pilots are either killed in the shootdown or parachuted into a horrible captivity.

[New Tyran]

I maintain three carriers with a fourth on the way. Probably dispatch one group alongside Gaul forces. Shadowing Ummayah government forces.

[Murovanka]

Also, I really don't like how Ummayah has apparated several thousand kilometers eastwards which might make it a bit unrealistic for Gaul and NT, but for canon purposes we could maybe handwavium it so that it's half the distance.

Both Gaul and NT have carriers, don't they? Strike aircraft launched from a carrier-battlegroup would be more than adequate if retaliatory gunboat diplomacy is your only goal, and against a less-than-competent air force a carrier maintaining proper radio discipline and constantly shifting its location is all but invisible.

Another option would be to negotiate access to ports and airfields in neighboring countries. I don't know what Pillowlandia's stance on the issue is, but they would be the most valuable ally. Qusayn is supportive toward the Ummayah regime but is too poor to send troops or anything, and it might allow some foreign aircraft to use its airbases to strike al-Kabaab forces in exchange for a very generous offer of development funds... by which I mean, helping a few government officials "develop" their property...

That could do. Still, the cost of supplying, logistics and all, bases and carrier groups so far away, that would increase with distance, right? More for a prolonged campaign. But as long as it doesn't come to a direct fight with the Soodean navy, that should be manageable.

Also, I think Gaul has some island bases just off the Ummayan coast, that could be used by him and NT to stage attacks alongside their carrier groups.

I'm just talking one post, to ya kno, show the flag. Lol

Plus I'm dropping out of a couple because they have failed to maintain my interest lol, or many other ppls interest for that matter.

Yes but such an intervention would be much more than just a post. Well, I won't allowhope you won't lose interest in Deus Vult after you guys bugged me so long to start it. Make it interesting pls. See this.

[Achesia]

Both Gaul and NT have carriers, don't they? Strike aircraft launched from a carrier-battlegroup would be more than adequate if retaliatory gunboat diplomacy is your only goal, and against a less-than-competent air force a carrier maintaining proper radio discipline and constantly shifting its location is all but invisible.

Another option would be to negotiate access to ports and airfields in neighboring countries. I don't know what Pillowlandia's stance on the issue is, but they would be the most valuable ally. Qusayn is supportive toward the Ummayah regime but is too poor to send troops or anything, and it might allow some foreign aircraft to use its airbases to strike al-Kabaab forces in exchange for a very generous offer of development funds... by which I mean, helping a few government officials "develop" their property...

That could do. Still, the cost of supplying, logistics and all, bases and carrier groups so far away, that would increase with distance, right? More for a prolonged campaign. But as long as it doesn't come to a direct fight with the Soodean navy, that should be manageable.

Also, I think Gaul has some island bases just off the Ummayan coast, that could be used by him and NT to stage attacks alongside their carrier groups.

I'm just talking one post, to ya kno, show the flag. Lol

Plus I'm dropping out of a couple because they have failed to maintain my interest lol, or many other ppls interest for that matter.

Yes but such an intervention would be much more than just a post. Well, I won't allowhope you won't lose interest in Deus Vult after you guys bugged me so long to start it. Make it interesting pls. See this.

Lol Im not giving up on Deus Vult what would make u think that

[The Soodean Imperium]

That could do. Still, the cost of supplying, logistics and all, bases and carrier groups so far away, that would increase with distance, right? More for a prolonged campaign. But as long as it doesn't come to a direct fight with the Soodean navy, that should be manageable.

For a prolonged campaign against a roughly parity opponent, yes, especially if there are ground troops involved. The Brits struggled a lot with long logistics chains in the Falklands War, though Argie pilots were also at the very limit of their fuel to reach the islands. Which, again, is the ISN's main doctrinal bet: while it has fewer and smaller carriers than an opposing alliance, it can win an engagement within its sphere of influence by leaning heavily on its shorter supply routes and abundant land-based aviation.

But yeah, bombing a few targets (government or otherwise) and then leaving once the message is made is well within a properly supplied carrier-battlegroup's capabilities. As I see it, landing marine brigades for a prolonged operation would be the more taxing part, but in both cases it depends on the duration and intensity of the conflict.

The main way to offset any supply disadvantage would be through diplomatic agreements with other local countries, whether it's allowing supply ships to route through their ports, basing aircraft and drones from their airfields, or even building up troops there and attacking across the border. This is, after all, how the US has maintained a dominant military presence in the Middle East despite being on the opposite side of the globe.

[Gauliscia]

We have one aircraft carrier as per se, that can carry around 25 F35Bs and then three helicopter carriers which can in theory carry harriers but probably won't. We'll probably just send the carrier and maybe a heli carrier for ASW. But we do have Viceroyalty of Tuxlocia, a handful of islands off Ummayah (another reason to pacify the rebels)) so we can build up short range assets from there and supply our forces from here too. No doubt we truly face a logistical mammoth and all this is susceptible to some interception...

As to us engaging Soode or the Ummayads directly, this remains to be seen. It depends what happens as we build into it, but of course there is good scope for you shooting down a UAV craft, recon blame or of we wanted to make things truly saucy, a bomber.

[Murovanka]

Can this be like the OP picture thing

[Gauliscia]

When's the op up?

[New Tyran]

ICly how long has Junud al-Kabaab been a group for? When the RP starts has the group already seized and holds large amounts of territory already or is just starting to expand? Maybe we send an envoy from our government stupidly thinking we can broker a ceasefire agreement between the warring factions. The envoy's plane is shot down on route to the capital. That could stir shit up for us.

[Murovanka]

When's the op up?

One and a half weeks, unless any of you would like to write the OP.

ICly how long has Junud al-Kabaab been a group for? When the RP starts has the group already seized and holds large amounts of territory already or is just starting to expand? Maybe we send an envoy from our government stupidly thinking we can broker a ceasefire agreement between the warring factions. The envoy's plane is shot down on route to the capital. That could stir shit up for us.

I'd say Shahid militancy would've picked up speed in the IC last 4-5 years, which coincides when the Wankan religious bloc started funneling money to extremist voices abroad. In Ummayah, there was a loosely united rebel alliance which splintered due to divisions within in the past years. Al-Kabaab would've existed as an independent entity for perhaps just over 2 years or so.

I'm open to start from wherever, perhaps while they are expanding, from when al-Kabaab and other rebels have seized a few major cities. Your envoy could perhaps be on the way to attempt to negotiate some sort of calm when al-Kabaab shoots the infidel flying object down.

[Murovanka]

Great OP Gaul, perhaps I'll follow that up with the situation in Ummayah, where the rebels and al-Kabaab are gaining ground?

[Gauliscia]

Great OP Gaul, perhaps I'll follow that up with the situation in Ummayah, where the rebels and al-Kabaab are gaining ground?

[Murovanka]

@NT, how about al-Kabaab attacks your embassy to start it off?

[New Tyran]

@NT, how about al-Kabaab attacks your embassy to start it off?

Yeah, that could work. Then I can start a post with my government's response. Hopefully I can start writing a post tonight.

[Murovanka]

@NT, how about al-Kabaab attacks your embassy to start it off?

Yeah, that could work. Then I can start a post with my government's response. Hopefully I can start writing a post tonight.

Sorry for my delay on my part, been rather busy, but I'll get to it hopefully in the next coupla days. If you like you can RP the attack on the embassy or anything else really.

[New Tyran]

Oh so is this set around the early 2000s?

ayyy here's me thinking I can bang out the stealth multirole fighters with a full battlegroup, now it's gonna be a single light carrier with some harriers and a few somewhat working destroyers

[Gauliscia]

Oh so is this set around the early 2000s?

ayyy here's me thinking I can bang out the stealth multirole fighters with a full battlegroup, now it's gonna be a single light carrier with some harriers and a few somewhat working destroyers

Oh no... there goes my carrier too... Bloody hell

[Murovanka]

Oh no... there goes my carrier too... Bloody hell

Well, this happens after our war, Gaul, so you'd still have it..?

Oh so is this set around the early 2000s?

ayyy here's me thinking I can bang out the stealth multirole fighters with a full battlegroup, now it's gonna be a single light carrier with some harriers and a few somewhat working destroyers

Right, so just for clarification, that's my calendar. We can do it two ways: one, this is some historical thing that sets the stage for the present day or two, I'll remove the dates and we assume it is modern day. I just put it down as 2004 for canon timeline purposes, but you don't have to abide by that.