Excidium Planetis wrote:Rawhein wrote:This nation is neither known to, nor recognised by GESO at this time. Until, I expect near the end of the RP, they would be regarded by the majority of members as a pirate base with civ support staff. If you wish, I can let you (as a sympathetic nation and a Triumvirii of SIU) gather intel that proves otherwise through the RP.
In the absence of evidence that these are actually pirates, Excidium Planetis would not take any offensive actions against them. You see, Excidium Planetis values the principle of
innocent until proven guilty, and thus, substantive evidence is needed to convict groups of piracy. Clearly, if GESO is not aware of the true nature of these raiders, that evidence does not exist.
I operate on a somewhat different principle. It goes "if you attack our freighters, steal our stuff, resist capture, and also attack the military escorts we provided, do not be surprised when we decide we've had enough and begin striking back, to ensure you no longer can." Prisoners will be taken, and tried for piracy following interrogation.
Since we're speaking ICly-
We aren't. I am speaking OOCly about why Excidium is not doing anything ICly about the raiders.
Misunderstanding, nothing more.
That reason is twofold:
1) There is no evidence that these are pirates as opposed to a military force.
2) If it is a military force, then, per Article 2 section B:
-snip-
Clearly, Excidium Planetis is not obligated to defend attacked GESO members until negotiations fail. And they haven't, as far as Causer is aware, because there was no IC mention of negotiations at all.
Military forces, mercenary or official, act on behalf of nations. None of the raiders have so far claimed such, nor do they display any recognised flags on their hulls, nor have they requested negotiations beyond demands for tribute (including slaves) from border worlds. Therefore, they are not acting on behalf of a nation, therefore they're doing it for their own gain (supported by salvaged equipment showing up in later engagements), therefore piracy, therefore Art. 2(B) is inapplicable.
1) None of this was IC. This is the OOC thread, and I never speak ICly except in quotation marks.
When I say "ICly", I'm referring to arguments that apply to your IC nation, not you the person sitting at a keyboard. The note preceding the below was directed at [your name here], and was denoted as such.
2)
When Excidium Planetis joined, it joined knowing it was an alliance that first and foremost pledgedto uphold the ideals of intergalactic stability, peace, economic freedom, liberty and freedom.
And one that would supposedly
strive to settle disputes amongst governments through peaceful means, and should refrain from destabilizing galactic affairs with unnecessary acts of aggression.
Attacking a group of raiders without negotiations and without proof of piracy is the very definition of destabilizing galactic affairs with unnecessary acts of aggression, and thus Excidium Planetis would not condone it.
No, attacking civilian freighters that have done nothing to you is an unnecessary act of aggression. So, for that matter, is demanding tribute, blockading worlds that refuse, and attacking escorts. As for us, let me ask you something - in WWII, did the Allies stop after they liberated invaded nations, even though they had technically restored Europe to the way it was? No, they went on to aggressively attack Germany, because the threat there needed to be ended. We are ensuring the liberty of our members and other world that are threatened, and the peace of the G/D border which in turn promotes economical freedom by opening up the trade routes. We don't claim it as ours, nor force any of our members to stay with threats, nor claim exclusive use of the border. We're removing a threat that thus far has done nothing to show itself as anything more than simple criminality.