NATION

PASSWORD

GESO General Assembly [Exclusive]

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]
User avatar
Galactic Economy and Security
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Jul 25, 2016
Ex-Nation

GESO General Assembly [Exclusive]

Postby Galactic Economy and Security » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:01 am

The hall of the Security Council were artificially cavernous. Lights shined from a shadowed ceiling, concealing a network of lights, acoustic shapers, ventilation, and emergency defence measures. Waves of desks descended and circled around a great structure of struts and beams holding projector screens and speakers, all the better to relay information and the tiny faces of speaking members amongst the sea of sometimes intrigued, sometimes devious, but generally bored and unpleasant expressions regardless of the varied faces they may sit upon. The desks, too, varied - some high-tech and bristling with recorders and infoscreens, some the standard wood bureau provided by the SC, and some constructed of rare, exotic materials, either to flaunt wealth or bring a sense of national identity. Upon one of these, a dark wood shiny with wax and varnish, a red light blinked to request attention. A reptillian face, with colour-shifting eyes and soft, smooth scales emerged from the shadows of the formidable chair as Far'Ha presented the newest set of amendments for the GESO Charter.

Image

The Galactic Economic and Security Organization


Amended and Signed at Supreme Allied Headquarters, Neo Terra, New Sol . 2830




GESO Charter

We, the sapient people of this galaxy; whom had many of their forebears struggle through the unforgiving void and maelstrom of despair, come together today in this hall in order to preserve our sacrosanct freedoms that had been won with blood, toil, and will - henceforth establish the Galactic Economic And Security Organization in order to preserve the way of life that all sapient beings; human or otherwise have the universally given right to enjoy. In order to push back the tides of darkness and chaos that would ruin the temple of personal liberty, and tarnish the essence of freedom. And so we pledge this document for both posterity and prosperity to establish a noble and enlightened league of nations dedicated to the preservation of all life, and to establish a sacrosanct conviction to defend the liberty of the individuals privy to this document. Yet we, the signatory powers recognize that violence is not the solution to every challenge; and indeed should be the final resort. The Galactic Economic And Security Organization is a faction of peace foremost, and the signatories to this treaty will uphold the virtues of honor, dignity, diplomacy, mutual cooperation, and peace.

In entering this agreement, all parties agree to mediate disputes and coexist in harmony; suffering the countless genocides, the destruction, and the subsequent galactic dark ages that followed the era of disorder we the species of the Galactic Economic and Security Organization look forth to protect ourselves; to expand our knowledge of the universe, and to better the galaxy as a whole. We do not seek conquest; we seek knowledge, understanding, and economic prosperity.

To affirm this commitment, we establish these sets of amendments based on the principle of universal liberty, cultural liberty, religious freedom, and tolerance to all peoples amongst us.


Article 1

A. All sapient beings are to be granted the freedom of expression, speech, and thought; such actions may not be censured in international zones; any censured parties involved may ask for asylum from any number of member worlds.

B. Freedom of movement; unless sacrificed by allied trade command or the receiving world, all signatories shall retain free passage to their destination. Member powers shall promote freedom of movement for goods and services between worlds, and will attempt to minimize conditions that could cause an economic imbalance in intergalactic trade between member governments. Additionally, disputes between trading powers will divest to the Galactic Commerce Committee, which is overseen by the Secretary-General or a individual(s) appointed in their stead. However, as the Galactic Economic and Security Organization cannot impede upon the sovereign decisions of a power to restrict trade through its borders or interfere to an extent in any internal policy, a recourse for the determination of compensation for lost goods and services will be levied.

C. Realizing that extradition is a complex process, and that the galaxy has a myriad of legal systems that differ from world to world, the Galactic Economic and Security Organization establishes a magisterial assembly, selected from any nation that has been a member for at least one solar year, to be called the GESO Judicial Court (GJC). If the offense is committed against a citizen in international territory, then the government of the offended person may request extradition. However, the matter of local authorities conducting investigations cannot be overlooked, and this may cause some delay in the extradition of the perpetrator of the alleged crime. If there is a dispute between two governments about a suspect or individual, then the matter will come before a tribunal to be decided by a vote, and provided sufficient evidence is attained, the suspect will then be transferred to the most heavily offended party. In cases of sovereignty and national disputes, mediation to resolve the issue will be an additional safeguard to prevent escalation.

Article 2

A. Signatories to this document henceforth shall pledge to uphold the ideals of intergalactic stability, peace, economic freedom, liberty and freedom. With such aims, all peoples governed under this pledge shall strive to settle disputes amongst governments through peaceful means, and should refrain from destabilizing galactic affairs with unnecessary acts of aggression.

B. In the event of an act of aggression between two or more member states of the GESO, the Secretary-General* shall appoint a negotiator to mediate the conflict and resolve it. If the negotiator can not resolve it, the Secretary-General shall work with the Security Council to develop a peacekeeping mission using GRF forces to end the conflict.

B. In the event of an act of aggression between a member of the Alliance and a non-member, the Secretary-General* shall appoint a team of three ambassadors to attempt to resolve the dispute peacefully. If they do not succeed within 120 days, or if they submit a Notice of Failure, members of the Alliance are obligated to defend those attacked unless or until the Security Council has voted otherwise (bearing in mind Article 2A).

*(or Reserve, see Article 5B.B)

Article 3

A. To guarantee the functionality of this treaty to its fullest extent, member worlds jointly and individually by effective self-sustained capacity and mutual aid, will maintain and improve upon a collective and sufficient self defense capacity to resist armed aggression.

B. If armed aggression against a member state occurs, then Article 2(b) shall be activated. If it is so chosen by the power under attack however, the GESO shall reserve the right to intervene in conflicts if certain situations are involved. Minor incidents can henceforth be brought forth to be mediated, and if a significant threat is recognized by the allied power, an emergency meeting of the Security Council shall be called to debate the ramifications of any potential actions.

Article 4

A. The GRF (Galactic Response Force), shall be established as a unified military, exploration and defense force sanctioned to carry out the duties of collective defense, exploration and strategic and tactical operations that are authorized by the Secretary-General and the Council. The GRF shall be lead by the Joint Chiefs of Command, or JCC, and they will be appointed by the Secretary-General and confirmed by the Council with a majority vote, and will issue orders, assign and organize missions and other items that are required by the chief commanders of a force.

B. In extreme times, the JCC may appoint a Supreme Allied Commander, who will unilaterly take over the actions of the JCC once confirmed, though extreme actions such as deployment and usage of strategic weaponry, planet wide destruction, war, or peace, must still be passed and confirmed by the Council. The SAC may be removed by a majority vote of the JCC, or by the Council on the JCC's or Secretary-General's recommendation

C. The GRF will initially consist of vessels, stations, yards and other installations donated by member states for either limited or permanent leases. The Force shall maintain a mix of both, but should strive to field solely Force-owned vessels, operated by volunteer crews from member states. Funding for this shall come from, and be authorized by, the Council.

D. Deployment of the GRF, on large scale operations, may only come through confirmed action by the Council, or by the Secretary-General. The Secretary-General* may unilaterally deploy the GRF on large-scale operations without Council approval for a limit of twenty days, as defined by the Sol calendar, before the Council must approve the deployment and extend it. Without approval, all deployed units are to be recalled immediately. Small-scale deployments, not to exceed more then eight ships in any form, are not subject to this rule.

E. Command of any GRF deployment may not be given to any member-state, but from within GRF ranks of volunteer crew.

F. The GRF is to be funded according to a schedule determined by the Security Council. At the Security Council’s discretion this may be delegated to a designated committee to determine this schedule. The schedule shall take into account each nation’s contribution and each nation’s capability to pay. Each nation will be required to meet their funding requirements as laid out in this schedule.

*(or Reserve, see Article 5B.B)

Article 5

A. The Galactic Economic and Security Organization, noting the fact that an overall speaker and presiding member over council meetings is needed, hereby establishes the office of the Secretary-General. This office, shall be responsible for directing and leading various GESO organisations and for chairing meetings, resolving tie-breaks, representing GESO at inter-governmental functions and making public statements on behalf of GESO, as well as the executive administration of the Alliance as he or she sees fit.

B. The Secretary-General will be elected from within the Alliance itself, any member may propose a candidate and the entire member list shall vote on their first, second and third preferred candidates. The candidate with the lowest number of first preference votes is eliminated, and their votes are redistributed to their second preferences, or their third if the second has already been eliminated, until three candidates remain. The member with the greatest number of votes will become SG, while the candidates with the second and third greatest will be First and Second Reserve SGs, respectively. All shall serve two years, unless impeached by the Security Council. Impeachment can be called for at any time, and requires two seconding representatives and a two-third supermajority vote. In the event of an impeachment, the next Reserve SG will serve in the interim period until the next election is completed or two months elapse, whichever is sooner.

C. The Security Council is hereby established, with the purpose of overseeing the legislative, security, defense and authorization duties, as well as others previously prescribed in this Charter. The Council shall consist of one representative from each member-nation.
    (I): The Security Council will be led by the Secretary-General, who will officially propose bills, action and other items of discussion suggested or authored by the Counselors, and will be in charge of the behavior and conduct of the Counselors while in session. The Secretary-General may never vote in any Council action.

    (II): The SG will renounce ties to their home nation for the good of GESO as a whole. In matters in which the SG has executive power, such as the appointment of negotiators and mediators, they are prohibited from doing so in events in which their origin nation has a significant interest apart from GESO as a whole. In this case, their authority is enacted by a Reserve SG without an interested origin nation.

Article 6

A. Establishes the Executive Council. The Council shall consist of seven members, who will be elected in the same fashion as the Secretary-General; any member may propose candidates(s) and then the members as a whole will vote for they prefer. Each member will receive three votes, and may only lodge one vote per candidate. The top seven candidates with the most votes will be elected and will serve for a period of one year.
    (I): The Executive Council shall collectively act as a single Executive Officer and is responsible for the carrying out of the will of the Security Council in accordance with the charter with all future amendments.

    (II): The Executive Council is responsible for the administration, directing and managing of GESO Child organisations as spelled out below. Members of the Executive Council will take on a single portfolio as a Minister for each child organisation. This ministerialship being on a temporary and rotary basis within the Executive Council. Additional ministers may be added to assist member states in any single area, from resolving conflicts to trade. Any area that can assist relations between member states and maintain peace as well as between member and non-member states.

B. Establishes the following child organisations with their particular responsibility.
    (I): Galactic Response Force(GRF) - As Established under Article 4.
    (II): The Galactic Aid and Development Agency (GADA)
      1. Defines ‘aid’ as resources and support given to a population, nation or civilization to help it with development or to respond to a natural or sapient-made disaster including but not limited to food aid, education aid, the deployment of skilled personnel and medical aid;
      2. Determines that GADA will be have the following mission statement,
        - a. to co-ordinate international efforts and responses to natural and sapient-made disasters;
        - b. to help provide aid to nations and populations exposed to natural and sapient-made disasters should they be unable to effectively cope alone;
        - c. to help maintain international food security and to provide food aid to populations suffering from endemic malnutrition;
        - d. to help promote social and economic development in civilizations both within and without of GESO;
        - e. to provide aid to and co-ordinate the response to refugees and internally displaced persons;
        - f. to promote and encourage sustainable economic and environmental development with the application of appropriate technologies, especially in single-planet civilizations;
      3. Decides that GADA will be funded by donations and voluntary monetary contributions by GESO member-states and private citizens and organizations,
      4. Establishes an official fund to be administered by GADA to be used to help sponsor and support NGOs which help it in fulfilling its mission statement;
    (III): Strategic Espionage Unit
      1. To be lead by a three person team filled by different GESO member-states called Triumvirate, individual triumvirate members may be removed before their terms by a vote of the GESO Security Council. Term is 3 years on a rotating basis. A new member every year. Triumvirate is directly responsible to the Security Council for all activities.
      2. SEU may use a variety of technical assets in their field as appropriate
      3. The SEU is required to maintain personnel with updated training and intelligence before deploying in field. To use any and all abilities granted by magic, psionic or technolgical artifacts and skills. As well as weaponry available on black markets to obfuscate SEU involvement. Assets to be trained in culture, customs and languages foreign sites before deployment.
      4. Any asset can be deployed at foreign sites with the approval of the Triumvirate. Assets may only operate on local sites with a specific request from the appropriate jursidiction with a specific and defined scope and timeframe. All other cirsumstances mean that any asset cannot be deployed to any foreign or local site.
    (IV): Interstellar Research Institute
      1. Responsible for intergalactic disease control and response.
      2. Work closely with GADA to facilitate medical aid in help combat the outbreak of a contagion.
      3. Facilitate collaborative research into a broad spectrum of sciences, including but not limited to training in cross-species application, archaeological and historical research.

Article 7:

An important part of peace is strong trade links. To assist in the accomplishment of strong trade link between all member states GESO hereby:

A. Establishment a of a Gateway Network. Gateways allow for almost instantaneous travel between set destinations. GESO shall therefore run and maintain a network of gateways between member and founder states. Each state may define the extent of their involvement within the network specifying suitable destinations. States may choose to totally exclude the gateway network from all of their systems, incorporate a small list of connections or fully deploy a network within their boundaries.

B. Establish a collection of reserve currencies that member and founder states are recommended to hold. This is to assist in providing financial stability and access to a variety of markets at ease. There is no minimum amount that states must hold only a recommendation that they do. Reserve Currencies are currently set as, Terran Credits but may be added to by a successful majority vote of the Security Council.

Article 8

A. Establishes a formal procedure for amending this document. The Authors of this document acknowledge it to be imperfect. As times change and political factors gain and lose importance, a static alliance cannot last forever. Any member of the Security Council may propose an amendment, after which:

    (I): At least two members must announce their support,

    (II): A vote is called. In order to pass the vote, a simple majority of the SC must be in favour. The Secretary-General may, if they believe the amendment to be detrimental to GESO as a whole, raise the bar to a two-third super-majority.
Last edited by Galactic Economy and Security on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:02 pm, edited 9 times in total.

User avatar
Taigawa
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7469
Founded: Jun 25, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Taigawa » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:41 pm

Bookmark feature does'nt work for me, nor can I copy and paste on an xbox, so have a tag.
Tier 1, primarily anthro nation inspired by Halo, Mass Effect, and Asian culture. NS Stats are irrelevent to The Ecumene.

Alert Status
[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] Alert Status: 1- Total War Declared- Use of WMDs is authorized
Neyla is the only character to ever embarress Kyoki. All Forum 7 Characters
24 years old and female.

User avatar
Houseidou
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 56
Founded: Jun 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Houseidou » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:44 am

Yay! New GA section!

User avatar
Nilla Wayfarers
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1223
Founded: Apr 04, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Nilla Wayfarers » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:46 am

Houseidou wrote:Yay! New GA section!

Pretty sure this is just an RP. Not another section of the Assembly.
Our country is the world--our countrymen are mankind.
WA Delegate for Liberationists (Ambassador Oscar Mondelez).

For: good things
Against: bad things

Economic Left/Right: -4.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54

Want to make the WA more democratic? Show your support here.
The Greatest GA Resolution Author Ever wrote:Due to more of the Econmy using computers instead of Paper The Manufactoring for paper prducts shpuld decrease because were wasting rescources on paper ad more paper is being thrown in the trash

User avatar
Galactic Economy and Security
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Jul 25, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Galactic Economy and Security » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:46 am

Houseidou is a member of the GESO and is merely mentioning the fact that this is our new General Assembly thread, as a note this thread is only open to GESO members and declared observers.

-UTA
Last edited by Galactic Economy and Security on Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Excidium Planetis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7483
Founded: May 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Excidium Planetis » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:57 am

Ambassador Causer and Colonel Aisling, strangely silent these last few weeks, now speak. Not at the same time, mind you, that would get difficult to understand.

"I believe the matter of debate was... er... time travel?" Colonel Aisling reads over the UTA's recommendation for enforcing the timeline continuity. "As a member of the Strategic Intelligence Unit leadership, I would like to voice concerns with the United Terran Alliance's plan to use SIU operatives to enforce the continuity of our timeline. Firstly, even if it were possible for us to go back and correct changes in every case, sending the SIU back in time couldn't do it... the impact they themselves have on the timeline could be too great. The SIU operatives could screw everything up worse than it was before.

"Secondly, if the timeline is changed in a way that prevents GESO's formation, then there will be no SIU to send back, so we can't correct any changes.

"I suggest, to maintain the continuity of the Galactic Economic and Security Organization, we limit backwards time travel to only those times since the formation of GESO."
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

User avatar
NERV arms conglomerate
Diplomat
 
Posts: 926
Founded: Nov 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby NERV arms conglomerate » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:06 am

The Viva(D) class ship hit the water with a thunderous crash, like a flying boat of old she thundered along before finally dropping down to a reasonable oceanic speed, her undamaged, dark green livery glinting as her re-entry and landing shielding shut down, water filling the minute gap between the shield envelope and her hull. steam washing out of her now deactivated engine outlets as she steamed towards an open birth within the marinas and docklands littering the border between the city and the sea, the neo-gothic architecture enhancing her styling as she herself was designed to reminisce upon a time long past, a time of surface ships, steam power, and resilience of thought.

INN. Diplomatic Justice, Viva Class (D) Diplomatic - Stateroom 01

E-Vee was bored, She'd Joined NERVgov to see the universe, at the age of one hundred she was barely into her first third of life, having lived upon Serenity, the capital planet all her life. Now, Now she was traveling aboard a steamer to meet and greet some of the most powerful people in the 'verse. it was surely terrifying and absorbing, the art deco buildings rising from a clear, clean ocean. the view was breathtaking.

"EeVee, we'd like permission to synch with your implant if that's possible?" a disembodied, calm and triplicated voice expressed as she prepared to disembark.

"you're the New Diplo-MAJI Right?"

"yes, We are named Trichotomy.individually we are"
"Tory"
"Rose"
"And I am Swallow"
they elucidated in three differently toned voices as EeVee Gave them permission.

she was ready, a last glance in the mirror allowed her to explore her uniform, printed especially for the event...it was
'well, at least its well fitting.' she thought as she examined herself, her uniform a dark green tunic-like suit jacket(as was the terran style) over a black sleeveless shirt/dress piece, finished off with a set of medals upon one breast of the jacket and a pair of low-heeled, knee high boots.
enhancing the uniform was her red, oxide coloured hair, pulled back in a tight braid that flowed down her back, ending just below her waistline.

lost in her musings, she had moved towards the exit hatch, a disembarking ramp having been manoeuvred into position while she worried. she took a step, off the ship and onto the ramp.
'ha, one small step for me, one giant leap for diplomacy' she thought. as she disembarked.
a member of the league of armed neutrality
a member of the Inter-Galactic Security Council
a member of the Alliance of Celestial Corporations
A member of GESO

hi, I'm female, I'm a Corbyn supporter, I believe in a fair and equal singularity and I try to make money by making films.(not going all that well)

User avatar
Houseidou
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 56
Founded: Jun 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Houseidou » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:17 am

Sorry for my breach of protocol. I'll kick things off.


As the session of the General Assembly began, the Houseidan representative, Mother Superior Natsume Birushana, took the floor and strode to the podium. She seemed to be a twenty-something human woman of the Asian ethnicity, with a very pretty face, a body that was neither too curvy nor too slender, but right in the median of human attractiveness, bright red hair that came down to her waist, a slight tan, and heterochromia that made one iris brown and the other gold. She was clad in a beautiful white kimono with a trim resembling red and gold walls, and a stole flanking her neck and draping down the front of her robes depicting a red and gold gate on each end with the frame resembling an old-fashioned torii, the ancient Shinto spirit gates in some Japanese temples. She started her presentation, uploading a display program that activated the gigantic screen behind her, turning from showing the GESO emblem to a map of the Milky Way galaxy.

"Fellow delegates of GESO, I welcome you this morning with a matter of immense importance, far larger than any one nation can deal with. The past 4 Stems(1) of my nation's history has been one of great upheaval and change due to what we are now calling the Basaka War." She clicks a button on a remote, and the display zooms in on the Scutum-Centaurus Arm, in the Delta Quadrant, and a small yellow dot pops up, the view going in further to show a stellar bubble in gold, multiple star systems highlighted. "Not even a Stem after we made first contact with the rest of the galaxy and emerged from Grand Years of isolation, and we detected unusual signatures at the edge of one of our rimward colonies. The display changes to show the fuzzy image of 8 mushroom-shaped objects, clearly moving slightly relative to the position of the camera. They then begin to turn their caps towards the camera, and something impacts the holder of the camera, causing it to shake and pitch, until it rotates to show an angular spaceship being destroyed, the obvious source of the camera. "These were what we called the Basaka, aggressive automated capital ships built for an unknown purpose."

The display now shows a diagram of the alien ships, with a thick armored "cap" with sensors and mass drivers poking out of slots, a ring of fusion thrusters of various sizes on the inner rim of the interior of the cap, a spherical core in the center of the cap's rear, and a long trailing greebled stalk that slowly tapered off at the end. "This is a Basaka Von Neumann-class Capital Ship, our designation, not theirs. The frontal armor is a little over 20 kilometers in diameter and is a little less than a kilometer thick, with a roughly 25-kilometer-long tail that is 2 kilometers wide at its thickest. The frontal armor has slots to extend out powerful mass drivers and laser cannons, and the underside and tail are bristling with smaller point-defense versions of both, in addition to their fusion engines that can fire out destructive plumes." Her slide changes to an egg-shaped craft with three spindly legs around the circumference of the widest part, a bulbous fusion bottle of an engine at the rounded back, and a three-pronged beak at the tapered front. "The Siafu-class Fighter. 20 meters long from mouth to thruster, its primary weapons are the three lasers cannons it contains in the end segments of its legs, and its sharp mouth and claws for dismembering ships. Next, her slide shows a cylindrical cousin of the Siafu, retaining the huge beak and the bulbous thrusters, but now with multiple limbs clustered around the mouth end like tentacles, and pods along the midpoint that are weapons. "The Marabunta-class Corvette. 80 meters long and 20 meters wide, and also adept at engaging against ships and fighters with both its engines and its laser batteries." She then changes to show the schematics of a rectangular prism with cylinders along its outer flanks, the bulbous engine pods in back, and an anvil-shaped cockpit in front. "Last in the Basaka arsenal is the Weta-class Tender, at 200 meters long and 50 meters wide. It doesn't have weapons, but possesses thick armor, and serves as a tug, a mobile refueling point, a transport for material the Basaka extract, of, if needed, a ram." She then displays a simulated diagram of a Basaka Task Force of Von Neumanns in red that form up and begin firing on an enemy fleet in blue with their frontal weapons. "The Basaka use their Von Neumanns to pound against enemy ships at range while sending out their swarms of fighters and corvettes to intercept enemy missiles and fighters, then to overwhelm the crippled vessels. As she says this, the smaller ships try in vain to fight back, but are overrun with a cloud of red dots that are clearly the Siafus and Marabuntas. The dots surround the blue shapes, obscuring them, then depart to show the blue ships have vanished. "More detail dossiers are being sent to your offices and personnel.

She goes back to the map of Houseidou, and zooms out to show a huge grey sphere off to rimward and a bit spinward, the edge of the larger sphere partly engulfing the touching side of the smaller golden sphere. "We have spent the past Terran decade fending off the Basaka from destroying our civilization. The only saving graces are that the Basaka do not possess FTL, meaning they have to travel between stars at subluminal speeds, they have no true AI, just complex serieses of logic gates with pre-programmed battle strategies, and no fleetwide command, as the ships can communicate and coordinate, but not move as one like a real fleet can. They can be predictable, and they can be outwitted. But the Basaka possess incredible salvaging, mining, refining, and manufacturing capabilities. Their modus operandi is to enter a system, destroy any opposition, glass any habitable planets to make them inhospitable to most life, then strip the system of resources to make more ships and refuel themselves before moving on, leaving behind one Von Neumann to continue the mining process and make more ships. And based on our telemetry and calculations, they have expanded across a rough sphere FIVE THOUSAND parsecs in radius, with no signs of stopping. The closest star nation we know of in their path is the R.u.B., who will have the Basaka fleets heading fringeward on their doorstep in about 3-4 Grand Years, or about a Terran century."

"In conclusion, I am proposing a referendum to execute one of the biggest cleanup operations in the history of the galaxy. Each system the Basaka conquer is another system for them to use to make more of themselves. They are a threat on an unprecedented scale to all of us, as they have presumably exterminated an untold number of civilizations across countless worlds in what we call the Basaka Blight. This operation will be twofold." She commands the display to show white disks being formed against the sphere in various places. "The first will be to form levies, fortified regions in space to deflect Basaka advance away from potentially habitable worlds, though I doubt we will be able to cover their entire sphere of advancement." The display now has a white lance thrusting out from the gold sphere into the center of the grey sphere. "The second is an expedition to the center of the Blight. Our analysis of the code of Basaka processor cores indicates that there might be a way to broadcast an override that gets Basaka Von Neumanns to stand down. But the programmers of the Basaka were smart, and we aren't quite sure if we could make the override convincing enough. So their creators had to have a way to control them. Any override code must be, if anywhere, on the homeworld of the Basaka, wherever it is." She switches back to the GESO logo, and turns to her fellow delegates. "I open the floor to all of you for questions, comments, things we might have overlooked, and most importantly whether or not you will help us end this menace once and for all.

(1) Stem: Houseidan measurement of time roughly analogous to 2.6 Terran Years. http://www.nationstates.net/nation=hous ... /id=654469
Last edited by Houseidou on Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
RawHein
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Jul 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RawHein » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:33 am

Excidium Planetis wrote:Ambassador Causer and Colonel Aisling, strangely silent these last few weeks, now speak. Not at the same time, mind you, that would get difficult to understand.

"I believe the matter of debate was... er... time travel?" Colonel Aisling reads over the UTA's recommendation for enforcing the timeline continuity. "As a member of the Strategic Intelligence Unit leadership, I would like to voice concerns with the United Terran Alliance's plan to use SIU operatives to enforce the continuity of our timeline. Firstly, even if it were possible for us to go back and correct changes in every case, sending the SIU back in time couldn't do it... the impact they themselves have on the timeline could be too great. The SIU operatives could screw everything up worse than it was before.

"Secondly, if the timeline is changed in a way that prevents GESO's formation, then there will be no SIU to send back, so we can't correct any changes.

"I suggest, to maintain the continuity of the Galactic Economic and Security Organization, we limit backwards time travel to only those times since the formation of GESO."


"Your policy would indeed be a sound one," Far'Ha replied, "if we held a monopoly on time travel. Unfortunately, by it's very nature, we have no way of knowing if anyone else has altered causality, but if we can then there's no reason not to suppose others can. It's for this reason the SIU is required to intervene, should changes be detected - the UTA has assured me that they can provide the technology to make this possible. In addition, I should remind you that Defence Secretariat Silver does not represent the UTA - that is simply her nation of origin. I believe Honoured Delegate
Franklin Barnov fills that role, just as Fel'Ha filled mine after I resigned to maintain impartiality."
The Raw'Hein naming system.
Raw'Hein's introduction
Raw'Hein's reformation

[REDACTED BY MOD] (no registration or extra software necessary)

User avatar
NERV arms conglomerate
Diplomat
 
Posts: 926
Founded: Nov 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby NERV arms conglomerate » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:01 pm

EeeVee watched and listened as the conversation upon time travel ended, a steaming decanter of black, Freeport(TM) Alcho-coffee flashing into existence upon the small serving table to the right-hand side of her chair, the original desk having been replaced by a minimalist black office chair and the previously mentioned serving apparatus, this had been done for two reasons, the first being that NERVians were extremely tall, thus they required much legroom. the other, somewhat more important reason was as a declaration of NERVian culture.

having listened intently the plight of Houseidou EeeVee entered outwardly silent deliberations with The Trichotomy.

"so, what do you think?" she asked of them, her intentions translated into a chat box in her peripheral vision, the three minded Ais thought processes dominating the chat, the three deliberated until replying with:

We all agree that an armed intervention in the area is inevitable, simulations and analysis of the quadrant reveal a trend that indicates that there is a high probability of profit reduction and genocide. thankfully the machines involved are confirmed non-sapient or sentient, thus an armed intervention by NERV-MOD would not breach NERVian Sapient or sentient right-to-life laws. Additionally, NERVgov has expressed an interest in expanding into the area due to its dense population and relatively small nations. you have permission to pledge a to be determined military force into the area to support the peoples of the area."

EeeVee stood from her chair and spoke, her implant transmitting to the integrated PA systems.

"in response to the VN machines, I have been given authorization to pledge a yet to be determined military force into the area of effect, however, NERVgov would prefer an international response, we agree that a referendum should be held and endorse this motion by the Houseidou Representative." she finished, sitting down shortly after, her hands were shaking as she lit a ciguarette.

'my first speech!' kept running thrugh her mind over and over as she tried to calm down.
a member of the league of armed neutrality
a member of the Inter-Galactic Security Council
a member of the Alliance of Celestial Corporations
A member of GESO

hi, I'm female, I'm a Corbyn supporter, I believe in a fair and equal singularity and I try to make money by making films.(not going all that well)

User avatar
Excidium Planetis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7483
Founded: May 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Excidium Planetis » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:39 pm

Rawhein wrote:"Your policy would indeed be a sound one," Far'Ha replied, "if we held a monopoly on time travel. Unfortunately, by it's very nature, we have no way of knowing if anyone else has altered causality, but if we can then there's no reason not to suppose others can. It's for this reason the SIU is required to intervene, should changes be detected - the UTA has assured me that they can provide the technology to make this possible.

"If others possess the ability to alter time, then they can simply send a ship backwards to when the UTA's precursors were in their primitive stages, and destroy them. Thus GESO loses the ability to alter time, and we can't do anything to reverse it.

"The only thing to prevent this would be a preemptive strike to destroy any civilizations which also possess time travel, and that's not only impossible, but impractical. Madam Silver's plan won't work in the case that others possess time travel, so why should we use it? How can you justify deploying the SIU to engage in pointless endeavors?"

In addition, I should remind you that Defence Secretariat Silver does not represent the UTA - that is simply her nation of origin. I believe Honoured Delegate
Franklin Barnov fills that role, just as Fel'Ha filled mine after I resigned to maintain impartiality."

"Citizens always represent their nation when speaking before foreigners." Aisling replies. "They serve as an example to other cultures, upon which opinions of entire empires are based."

Houseidou wrote:"The first will be to form levies, fortified regions in space to deflect Basaka advance away from potentially habitable worlds, though I doubt we will be able to cover their entire sphere of advancement." The display now has a white lance thrusting out from the gold sphere into the center of the grey sphere. "The second is an expedition to the center of the Blight. Our analysis of the code of Basaka processor cores indicates that there might be a way to broadcast an override that gets Basaka Von Neumanns to stand down. But the programmers of the Basaka were smart, and we aren't quite sure if we could make the override convincing enough. So their creators had to have a way to control them. Any override code must be, if anywhere, on the homeworld of the Basaka, wherever it is." She switches back to the GESO logo, and turns to her fellow delegates. "I open the floor to all of you for questions, comments, things we might have overlooked, and most importantly whether or not you will help us end this menace once and for all.


"Why not simply systematically destroy the Von Neumanns? It seems that they are essential to the continuing efforts of the Basaka war machine. Without them, the Basaka lose the ability to continue manufacturing additional ships, correct?" Aisling asks.
Last edited by Excidium Planetis on Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

User avatar
RawHein
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Jul 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RawHein » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:47 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:
Rawhein wrote:"Your policy would indeed be a sound one," Far'Ha replied, "if we held a monopoly on time travel. Unfortunately, by it's very nature, we have no way of knowing if anyone else has altered causality, but if we can then there's no reason not to suppose others can. It's for this reason the SIU is required to intervene, should changes be detected - the UTA has assured me that they can provide the technology to make this possible.

"If others possess the ability to alter time, then they can simply send a ship backwards to when the UTA's precursors were in their primitive stages, and destroy them. Thus GESO loses the ability to alter time, and we can't do anything to reverse it.

"The only thing to prevent this would be a preemptive strike to destroy any civilizations which also possess time travel, and that's not only impossible, but impractical. Madam Silver's plan won't work in the case that others possess time travel, so why should we use it? How can you justify deploying the SIU to engage in pointless endeavors?"


Far'Ha sighed - he'd spent an hour trying to understand the various past present and future tenses as they related to time travel, before giving up and having an assistant sit down with one of the UTA's "temporal experts" to bash out an FAQ he could recite. "From what I've been informed, if we develop time travel technology then we will be able to intervene along our past at any point. As such, we will have the chance to protect ourselves. More to the point, developing time travel is not what allows others to interfere with us - they have always been able to do that, just as we will always be able to protect ourselves once we develop it-" He twisted at one of his fingers to distract himself from the headache. "An analogy. We can't build airfields to defend against bombers, because someone else can bomb the construction sites. But if we can obtain some interceptors from the future, we can attack the bombers, and thus build airfields, until we have enough that our protection is self-sufficient and can spare interceptors to send back."

In addition, I should remind you that Defence Secretariat Silver does not represent the UTA - that is simply her nation of origin. I believe Honoured Delegate
Franklin Barnov fills that role, just as Fel'Ha filled mine after I resigned to maintain impartiality."

"Citizens always represent their nation when speaking before foreigners." Aisling replies. "They serve as an example to other cultures, upon which opinions of entire empires are based."


"But they do not represent their governments. This is not the Terran Alliance's plan, though they have been consulted - the proposal is from GESO's Defence Secretariat, who happens to be Terran and has no political relationship with them."
The Raw'Hein naming system.
Raw'Hein's introduction
Raw'Hein's reformation

[REDACTED BY MOD] (no registration or extra software necessary)

User avatar
Excidium Planetis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7483
Founded: May 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Excidium Planetis » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:57 am

Rawhein wrote:
Excidium Planetis wrote:"If others possess the ability to alter time, then they can simply send a ship backwards to when the UTA's precursors were in their primitive stages, and destroy them. Thus GESO loses the ability to alter time, and we can't do anything to reverse it.

"The only thing to prevent this would be a preemptive strike to destroy any civilizations which also possess time travel, and that's not only impossible, but impractical. Madam Silver's plan won't work in the case that others possess time travel, so why should we use it? How can you justify deploying the SIU to engage in pointless endeavors?"


Far'Ha sighed - he'd spent an hour trying to understand the various past present and future tenses as they related to time travel, before giving up and having an assistant sit down with one of the UTA's "temporal experts" to bash out an FAQ he could recite. "From what I've been informed, if we develop time travel technology then we will be able to intervene along our past at any point. As such, we will have the chance to protect ourselves.

"Sure, we can interfere in the timeline... but what if we never existed? An enemy with time travel can accomplish that, and easily."

More to the point, developing time travel is not what allows others to interfere with us - they have always been able to do that, just as we will always be able to protect ourselves once we develop it-" He twisted at one of his fingers to distract himself from the headache.

"How can we possibly protect ourselves if we never exist in the first place?"

"An analogy. We can't build airfields to defend against bombers, because someone else can bomb the construction sites. But if we can obtain some interceptors from the future, we can attack the bombers, and thus build airfields, until we have enough that our protection is self-sufficient and can spare interceptors to send back."

"That's a paradox... you were only able to build interceptors to send back because you had interceptors built that were sent back. It would be more likely that the enemy attack destroys your ability to make interceptors, and thus no interceptors are sent back to defend you.

"But let's carry out this analogy further: Say, upon seeing the interceptors, the enemy went further back in time to before the interceptors arrived, and then destroyed your airbases prior to the interceptor arrival? Then there would be no airbases left, even with interceptors sent back. The interceptors would have to guard every moment in time continuously to prevent the bombers from eliminating them in the past, because the bombers can strike anywhen, and the interceptors have to be there to stop it."

Rawhein wrote:"But they do not represent their governments. This is not the Terran Alliance's plan, though they have been consulted - the proposal is from GESO's Defence Secretariat, who happens to be Terran and has no political relationship with them."

"If Madam Silver has no political relationship to the UTA, then should I choose to remove my sidearm and eliminate her, the UTA has no reason to take action against me, correct?"
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

User avatar
New Roman Empire
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10616
Founded: Nov 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby New Roman Empire » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:20 am

Excidium Planetis wrote:
Rawhein wrote:
Far'Ha sighed - he'd spent an hour trying to understand the various past present and future tenses as they related to time travel, before giving up and having an assistant sit down with one of the UTA's "temporal experts" to bash out an FAQ he could recite. "From what I've been informed, if we develop time travel technology then we will be able to intervene along our past at any point. As such, we will have the chance to protect ourselves.

"Sure, we can interfere in the timeline... but what if we never existed? An enemy with time travel can accomplish that, and easily."

More to the point, developing time travel is not what allows others to interfere with us - they have always been able to do that, just as we will always be able to protect ourselves once we develop it-" He twisted at one of his fingers to distract himself from the headache.

"How can we possibly protect ourselves if we never exist in the first place?"

"An analogy. We can't build airfields to defend against bombers, because someone else can bomb the construction sites. But if we can obtain some interceptors from the future, we can attack the bombers, and thus build airfields, until we have enough that our protection is self-sufficient and can spare interceptors to send back."

"That's a paradox... you were only able to build interceptors to send back because you had interceptors built that were sent back. It would be more likely that the enemy attack destroys your ability to make interceptors, and thus no interceptors are sent back to defend you.

"But let's carry out this analogy further: Say, upon seeing the interceptors, the enemy went further back in time to before the interceptors arrived, and then destroyed your airbases prior to the interceptor arrival? Then there would be no airbases left, even with interceptors sent back. The interceptors would have to guard every moment in time continuously to prevent the bombers from eliminating them in the past, because the bombers can strike anywhen, and the interceptors have to be there to stop it."

Rawhein wrote:"But they do not represent their governments. This is not the Terran Alliance's plan, though they have been consulted - the proposal is from GESO's Defence Secretariat, who happens to be Terran and has no political relationship with them."

"If Madam Silver has no political relationship to the UTA, then should I choose to remove my sidearm and eliminate her, the UTA has no reason to take action against me, correct?"


Vice Secretary General Tal entered the room and took his place next to the Terliran ambassador Tilei. "let me address that last statement Ambassador Causer and Colonel Aisling. There are no need for such talk within the GESO Assembly. If you were to shoot Madan Silver, I doubt the UTA government will stand by and let that go unanswered. Also, none of the members here would let that go unanswered as well. Frankly, if you were in our space and on our ship and said that to a Terliran Official. You would have been shot on the spot, so I would be very careful when you propose a statement such as the one you just have brought up. Now yes time travel has its own dangers, but so does going out your front door. Even exiting the womb you crawled out of was a danger to you and your mother. We as GESO can not official tell anyone what they can or can't do, but what we can do is establish regulations on said technology to ensure that its harder for anyone to abuse the system. So if you dont want people to abuse it, I suggest you come up with a way to regulate the technology rather than bicker and gripe on how dangerous it is. We all know what the dangers are and we know the price of failure if something were to get in the wrong hands."
“Venimus, Vidimus, Vicimus"
Member of the:IRON Alliance
Xirvo Corporation "Contractors of the future."
[/floatright][floatleft]
I use 1% of my population: 83,720,000
Budget:41,607,720,541,369.43

User avatar
Excidium Planetis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7483
Founded: May 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Excidium Planetis » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:20 am

New Roman Empire wrote:
Excidium Planetis wrote:"If Madam Silver has no political relationship to the UTA, then should I choose to remove my sidearm and eliminate her, the UTA has no reason to take action against me, correct?"


Vice Secretary General Tal entered the room and took his place next to the Terliran ambassador Tilei. "let me address that last statement Ambassador Causer and Colonel Aisling. There are no need for such talk within the GESO Assembly. If you were to shoot Madan Silver, I doubt the UTA government will stand by and let that go unanswered.

"Why not?" Colonel Aisling replies. "The UTA has no political relationship with Madam Silver, so why should they respond?"

Also, none of the members here would let that go unanswered as well. Frankly, if you were in our space and on our ship and said that to a Terliran Official. You would have been shot on the spot, so I would be very careful when you propose a statement such as the one you just have brought up.

"Ah yes, I see. So I should be careful about talking about shooting a fellow GESO member, you say as you talk of me being shot. Hypocrisy." Aisling sneers.

Now yes time travel has its own dangers, but so does going out your front door. Even exiting the womb you crawled out of was a danger to you and your mother.

"I was raised in a tank. My mother decided she didn't want a child and had my embryo removed and placed in an artificial womb." Aisling replies. "Frankly, exiting it was not much of a danger to anybody, let alone did it have dangers on the scale of eliminating entire nations from history."

We as GESO can not official tell anyone what they can or can't do, but what we can do is establish regulations on said technology to ensure that its harder for anyone to abuse the system. So if you dont want people to abuse it, I suggest you come up with a way to regulate the technology rather than bicker and gripe on how dangerous it is. We all know what the dangers are and we know the price of failure if something were to get in the wrong hands."

"I did come up with a way to regulate the technology: Use it only to go back to times after GESO was founded."
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

User avatar
The Fedral Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4270
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby The Fedral Union » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:27 am

Councilor Branov was becoming wary of the debate, the representative from Exceduim as always, was living up to the previous mantra of mountains out of mole hills their people seemed to be dead set on. He was a calm fellow, with black well kept hair and light brown skin denoting his origins from Tyrian. He had yet to even introduce himself, and it seemed the assembly was abuzz with activity concerning three issues in succession. Project Orion, the development of a temporal defense strategy, and the crisis plaguing the Houseidans. He folded his hands before him awaiting for the vice secretary to complete his blunt yet masterful verbal swing at Aisling and the colonel.

He cleared his throat and stood from his seat eyes gazing across the chamber.

“If I may address the floor, I’d like to introduce myself I am Councilor Frank Branov now representing the Terran Alliance in these chambers I’d like to offer a nod of respect to all those present within these hallowed halls.

I have several points of note to make, first that the Houseidan government has the full support of the Terran Alliance as bound by the mutual defense treaty this assembly is subject too, in their struggle against their foes, I would kindly ask the ambassador to provide all relevant military information on the machines to allied command.

Secondly I’d like to welcome the honored delegate from Nervgov, it is an honor to see powers new and old come together in the spirit of peace and protection.


And finally, the current debate about regulations on Temporal operations or technology while necessary and with valid points on both ends can only become a never ending issue. We are straying in to the territory of paradoxes, what if’s and speculation that is well beyond I am somewhat sure most of the assemblies preview; we’re not theoretical physicists, nor spatial scientists. However our people long ago have seen what the ravages of uncontrolled temporal manipulation can do first hand.

This is why we shouldn’t limit ourselves too stringently, and our governments position is that we will take what steps are needed to protect our nation and its people from threats arising from the eventual proliferation of this technology.

You do not have to be a mathematician to note that if anything has a possibility of grater than zero, that over a period of time something is bound to happen. It is better to lay out a framework of how we will deal with this as an organization, rather than to use an old earth term, adopt a leave it to beaver policy.

-I..”


Branov furrowed a brow at the Aisling's outburst , again he ignored it continuing with his line of thought.

“Incidentally I would like to move on to Project Orion if we may?”


Silver sat expressionless, she wasn’t inclined nor had to reply directly to any questioning made by Aisling, as she was not in a formal hearing. Nor was it in her purview, as her new position precluded countermanding the decisions of the civil authorities whom had been elected within the organization.
Last edited by The Fedral Union on Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
[09:07.53] <Estainia> ... Nuclear handgrenades have one end result. Everybody dies. For the M.F Republic, I guess
Member of the Galactic Economic and Security Organization
[REDACTED BY MOD]

User avatar
Excidium Planetis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7483
Founded: May 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Excidium Planetis » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:41 am

The Fedral Union wrote:And finally, the current debate about regulations on Temporal operations or technology while necessary and with valid points on both ends can only become a never ending issue. We are straying in to the territory of paradoxes, what if’s and speculation that is well beyond I am somewhat sure most of the assemblies preview; we’re not theoretical physicists, nor spatial scientists. However our people long ago have seen what the ravages of uncontrolled temporal manipulation can do first hand.

This is why we shouldn’t limit ourselves too stringently, and our governments position is that we will take what steps are needed to protect our nation and its people from threats arising from the eventual proliferation of this technology.

You do not have to be a mathematician to note that if anything has a possibility of grater than zero, that over a period of time something is bound to happen. It is better to lay out a framework of how we will deal with this as an organization, rather than to use an old earth term, adopt a leave it to beaver policy.

-I..”


"If your people have seen firsthand the ravages of uncontrolled temporal manipulation, why does one of your people suggest a policy uncontrolled temporal manipulation? Why do you yourself suggest that-" Aisling consults the transcript. "-we 'shouldn't limit ourselves too stringently'? If uncontrolled temporal manipulation results in problems, shouldn't we control it as much as possible, and not allow unrestricted use at all periods of time?"
Last edited by Excidium Planetis on Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

User avatar
Taigawa
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7469
Founded: Jun 25, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Taigawa » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:00 am

"I agree. If we are to be using time travel to any extent, it must be precisely controlled, or else disaster will be inevitable. To draw from the nation I represent, or from our nation at large, there are a number of events that had the outcomes been different, the Ecumene I represent to your organization would'nt exist. A good number I'll bring up for clarity's sake. Had the Forerunners not colonized our world, or the ruins been destroyed while we were in our earlier stages in development, the humans who invaded Thessia almost two centuries ago would have almost certainly have killed off my entire race and destroyed our civilization. Even had that even not happened, we would not be the powerhouse we are, as the discovery of those ruins allowed my people to achieve viable spaceflight in decades, instead of centuries. Another would be if the nuclear conflict of the 20th century escalated, my civilization would be in the stone age still centuries later, or even had we begun to recover and survived as a species, I would not be before this council. To go back even further, if someone were to go back and tell the Yulan Imperium of our plans to rebel, chances are my entire nation would never exist. So in conclusion and to reitterate my initial point, Time Travel is a volitile technology, and if we are to use it at all, it must be regulated and controlled for the sake of all of us."
Tier 1, primarily anthro nation inspired by Halo, Mass Effect, and Asian culture. NS Stats are irrelevent to The Ecumene.

Alert Status
[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] Alert Status: 1- Total War Declared- Use of WMDs is authorized
Neyla is the only character to ever embarress Kyoki. All Forum 7 Characters
24 years old and female.

User avatar
NERV arms conglomerate
Diplomat
 
Posts: 926
Founded: Nov 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby NERV arms conglomerate » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:45 am

EeeVee finished her cigarette, its butt disappearing in a similar light to the arrival of her earlier refreshments. the representatives had been filibustering about a hypothetical time war for far too long. EeeVee and her AI companion had become annoyed with the argument, the Houseidan representative had been waiting for any sort of reply for what felt like a supremely discourteous amount of time. the knowledge that citizens of Housidou were likely in serious danger spurring her actions and overriding her nervousness. a single statement from her bioelectrical companions(s) sealed her actions "we agree with you" they told her, the sensation of support flooding in from her implant.

She stood, turned to the bickering representatives and talked.
"while I'm sure we all agree that causal or temporal warfare is a threat, it isn't really a major one, dimension or parallel universal travel renders the issues a moot point, every time an attacking nation changes the past they simply split off a new timeline of events, one in wich the victim nation developed differently, both nations still exist, both nations are capable of actuating their futures.-" she paused for effect, hoping that her point would sink in.
"-while you're debating the semantics and tactics of such a war more important events are taking place in the present, the right honourable representative from Houseidou raised a time sensitive matter that precedes hypotheticals. Please can we get on with it?" she finished, sitting down and lighting another cigarette.
Last edited by NERV arms conglomerate on Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
a member of the league of armed neutrality
a member of the Inter-Galactic Security Council
a member of the Alliance of Celestial Corporations
A member of GESO

hi, I'm female, I'm a Corbyn supporter, I believe in a fair and equal singularity and I try to make money by making films.(not going all that well)

User avatar
RawHein
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Jul 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RawHein » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:03 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:
Rawhein wrote:Far'Ha sighed - he'd spent an hour trying to understand the various past present and future tenses as they related to time travel, before giving up and having an assistant sit down with one of the UTA's "temporal experts" to bash out an FAQ he could recite. "From what I've been informed, if we develop time travel technology then we will be able to intervene along our past at any point. As such, we will have the chance to protect ourselves.

"Sure, we can interfere in the timeline... but what if we never existed? An enemy with time travel can accomplish that, and easily."

More to the point, developing time travel is not what allows others to interfere with us - they have always been able to do that, just as we will always be able to protect ourselves once we develop it-" He twisted at one of his fingers to distract himself from the headache.

"How can we possibly protect ourselves if we never exist in the first place?"


"For a military man, you are being unusually fatalist. Your argument, as I understand it, is "We shouldn't develop TT technology, because then others can use theirs against us". When in reality, anyone that ever has it or ever will effectively has always and will always have it, regardless of whether we do or not. It doesn't matter when they choose to intervene along our causality chain, because once we develop our own then the chain is self-sustaining - we have it, therefore we can protect our timeline, therefore we cannot be prevented from having it."

"An analogy. We can't build airfields to defend against bombers, because someone else can bomb the construction sites. But if we can obtain some interceptors from the future, we can attack the bombers, and thus build airfields, until we have enough that our protection is self-sufficient and can spare interceptors to send back."


"That's a paradox... you were only able to build interceptors to send back because you had interceptors built that were sent back. It would be more likely that the enemy attack destroys your ability to make interceptors, and thus no interceptors are sent back to defend you.

"But let's carry out this analogy further: Say, upon seeing the interceptors, the enemy went further back in time to before the interceptors arrived, and then destroyed your airbases prior to the interceptor arrival? Then there would be no airbases left, even with interceptors sent back. The interceptors would have to guard every moment in time continuously to prevent the bombers from eliminating them in the past, because the bombers can strike anywhen, and the interceptors have to be there to stop it."


"Firstly, no. No paradox is created, because the interceptors that are sent back maintain their causality chain. If the nation didn't know how to design interceptors, and subsequently based their designs on those that arrive, then it would be a paradox because that knowledge has no source. And again, your defeatism is showing here. Planets have huge population centres and terrorists can bomb anywhere, for example, and you are arguing that this makes anti-terrorism units pointless. What is wrong, exactly, with guarding our causality chain at every point? With the technology available, we can detect changes made - the Aeon's temporal shielding places it outside of our causality chain, like an off-site backup. Why can't it intervene every time? It can spend months, if not years between operations, and still appear at the correct time to defeat interference."
The Raw'Hein naming system.
Raw'Hein's introduction
Raw'Hein's reformation

[REDACTED BY MOD] (no registration or extra software necessary)

User avatar
Houseidou
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 56
Founded: Jun 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Houseidou » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:15 am

Excidium Planetis wrote:"Why not simply systematically destroy the Von Neumanns? It seems that they are essential to the continuing efforts of the Basaka war machine. Without them, the Basaka lose the ability to continue manufacturing additional ships, correct?" Aisling asks.


Natsume had wondered that same question hours ago, when she was briefed on this latest development and asked to present it to the GESO General Assembly. After all, the Houseidan Celestial Navy had taken out over 100 Von Neumanns during the entire war. Why not continue to do that? So she answered Aisling's question by bringing up the map on the display to show the small golden sphere of Houseidou against the looming grey sphere of the Basaka Blight. "One simple word, my fellow representatives: Scale." She plugged in a calculator to show them the equation she was shown recently. "Space is a very big place, and the Blight not only covers the entire depth of the galaxy, but also the spaces above and below, where stars are very few and far between, and the dense globular clusters and Scutum-Centaurus Arm, where stars are more tightly packed. To this end, let's assume that the average stellar density, the average amount of stars in a given region of space, for the entire Basaka Blight is 1 star every 100 cubic parsecs (0.01Mstarpc3). To figure out how many stars are in the Basaka Blight, we have to calculate its volume, which is easy, since the volume of a perfect sphere is four-thirds times pi times the radius cubed (4/3πr3). We will estimate the volume of the Basaka Blight, which is not exactly a perfect sphere, using this equation. Plugging in the radius of 5000 parsecs, we get five-point-two-three-six times ten to the eleventh power cubic parsecs (5.236x1011pc3). Now, it's a matter of putting in our star amount, and we get roughly five billion, two hundred thirty-six million stars (5.236x109Mstar)."

She stares out into the crowd. "And each of those stars will have at least one Basaka Von Neumann in its system. A ship twenty kilometers wide, thirty kilometers long, and having kilometer-thick frontal armor. A ship capable of overwhelming even a prepared fleet. And there are potentially FIVE BILLION OF THEM. Even if each of our battleships managed to fire a single railgun round to instantly kill each of the Von Neumanns, we do not have five billion depleted uranium shells the size of trees.We aren't sure the GALAXY even has that much uranium. And we will have to engage each of those stars to not only capture, but hold, as the occupational Von Neumanns in a system will constantly build copies of themselves to send out on random vectors, so any star we do take from them must be guarded from the inevitable 'counterattacks'." She sighs and regains her calm composure. "It is simply more effective to broadcast a kill switch protocol to get them to stand down and make it far easier to dismantle the behemoths. Regarding our plans, and any information on the Basaka that we have, we have sent all of your respective offices our records of the battles in the war, the data we have collected on the Basaka, and any other pertinent files. We thank you for your support, and I am still here to answer your questions."

User avatar
Excidium Planetis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7483
Founded: May 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Excidium Planetis » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:04 am

Rawhein wrote:
Excidium Planetis wrote:"Sure, we can interfere in the timeline... but what if we never existed? An enemy with time travel can accomplish that, and easily."


"How can we possibly protect ourselves if we never exist in the first place?"


"For a military man, you are being unusually fatalist. Your argument, as I understand it, is "We shouldn't develop TT technology, because then others can use theirs against us". When in reality, anyone that ever has it or ever will effectively has always and will always have it, regardless of whether we do or not.

"That is not at all what I am saying. I am saying that it is impossible for us to protect our own causality chain from outside interference, thus, our resources are best utilized making sure we ourselves do not break it. Whatever happens elsewhere will happen whether we send the SIU to defend our past or not."

It doesn't matter when they choose to intervene along our causality chain, because once we develop our own then the chain is self-sustaining - we have it, therefore we can protect our timeline, therefore we cannot be prevented from having it."

"We cannot defend it. This unknown enemy that has not been proven to even exist can strike at any time period in thousands of years and completely destroy every GESO member civilization in infancy. How can we possibly monitor and defend every single point in time? GESO does not have the resources to defend ourselves in the past for thousands of years, which is what we would need to do to protect ourselves.

"If you are arguing that our causality chain cannot be erased simply by virtue of us having time travel, then why bother trying to protect it at all? That's a scenario where the past cannot be changed."

"Firstly, no. No paradox is created, because the interceptors that are sent back maintain their causality chain.

"That is a temporal paradox, more specifically a causal loop, with the actions in the future being a cause for actions in the past, in this case the completion of the airbases, which are the original cause of the interceptors. The causality chain is preserced, you are correct, but it is preserved in a way that is a paradox. It is akin to sending a billiard ball back in time at such an angle as to knock itself into the correct trajectory in the past. Though in this case, you are sending interceptors to defend themselves in the past."

If the nation didn't know how to design interceptors, and subsequently based their designs on those that arrive, then it would be a paradox because that knowledge has no source.

"That is also a causal loop. But in the case of the interceptors, the interceptors have 'no source' as you say, because they only exist if they exist. You see what I'm saying? If the interceptors had not been sent back in time, they would never have been built. They exist only because they were sent back in time, which is where the causal loop occurs. To make a direct comparison to your design analogy, what if the interceptors were sent back in time instead of designs, and then we're reverse engineered? It would still be a causal loop, even though now only the interceptors are being sent back. Any case where the interceptors are the cause of the interceptors' own existence, whether by being the blueprint for themselves or by defending the facilities that will manufacture them, is a causal loop.

And again, your defeatism is showing here. Planets have huge population centres and terrorists can bomb anywhere, for example, and you are arguing that this makes anti-terrorism units pointless.

"Not at all. The government of Excidium Planetis has the resources to stop terrorism effectively. One terrorist attack getting through in one thousand planned attacks does not completely destroy our government. On the other hand, one time travel attack in ten million getting through can completely erase us from existence. We have neither the resources nor the ability to continuously win such a high stakes game."

What is wrong, exactly, with guarding our causality chain at every point?

"I don't know about other GESO nations, but Excidium Planetis barely has the manpower and vessels to defend ourselves and allies in the present, let alone at every conceivable point in the past."

With the technology available, we can detect changes made - the Aeon's temporal shielding places it outside of our causality chain, like an off-site backup.

"That device itself is a paradox. If the Aeon really exists outside of our causality chain, then say for example it goes back in time and destroys the United Terran Alliance in its distant past. The Aeon is never even created, yet it still exists? That right there is the Grandfather paradox, where a future event prevents a past event that was partly to blame for the future event in the first place. In fact, all operations of the Aeon in such a manner as you describe would be paradoxes, since the Aeon would be stopping the events that caused it to be sent back in the first place. Causality is completely unpreserved in this case.

"This is to ignore the fact that if this temporal shielding does what it supposedly does, why should we not just cover the whole of our civilizations with it?"

Why can't it intervene every time? It can spend months, if not years between operations, and still appear at the correct time to defeat interference."

"And what if multiple attacks during the same time are made? Can one Aeon exist in multiple places at once? If so, why not send our one Aeon to every solar system at every time and have unparalleled powers of observation of our enemies, and combat capability besides?"
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

User avatar
The Fedral Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4270
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby The Fedral Union » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:58 pm

Silver took this moment to politely excuse herself, she merely shrugged off the extraneous questioning and pointless debate about Temporal mechanics. It was neither her place nor her purview to become involved in the debate. Though the pompous assumption that everyone in GESO was as meek about their military investment as Exceduim was made her inwardly chuckle.

"If you'll excuse me secretary general, vice secretary I believe my attention is needed concerning this "Basaka blight", I must review with my staff the relevant data that concern them, and mobilize appropriate GRF assets in order to enforce our mutual defense obligations."
Last edited by The Fedral Union on Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[09:07.53] <Estainia> ... Nuclear handgrenades have one end result. Everybody dies. For the M.F Republic, I guess
Member of the Galactic Economic and Security Organization
[REDACTED BY MOD]

User avatar
RawHein
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Jul 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RawHein » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:56 pm

Far'Ha sighed again. "Indeed, it seems the previous discussion was becoming unproductive." Reading back through the transcripts, he looked up to address the Houseidan representative. "Cher'Birush, as I understand the issue, this war has been going on for more than ten solar years. Why did you not alert us earlier? We could have helped with war loans and supplies, not to mention the GADA." He shrugged his shoulders in leaving the issue behind. "Regardless, we will of course do the best we can. Every GESO nation has of course signed their commitment to mutual defence, which brings us to the policy Secretariat Silver will announce shortly on the Basaka when she returns. Until then, the next briefed subject is the Orion-class flagship the Terliran delegate proposed, and I daresay Triumvirii Aisling will want to make a statement on the viability of a covert operation to locate the homeworld. I personally feel that the GRF needs an anchor to look up to and build itself around, and with the funding act passed it should be fiscally sound. Ambassador Tilei, I believe you have the floor."
Last edited by RawHein on Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Raw'Hein naming system.
Raw'Hein's introduction
Raw'Hein's reformation

[REDACTED BY MOD] (no registration or extra software necessary)

User avatar
New Roman Empire
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10616
Founded: Nov 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby New Roman Empire » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:28 am

Vice Secretary General Tal stood up once he heard Project Orion, "Yes as you all currently know the current flagship of the GRF is of UTA design and construction. We believe that a joint project to replace that ship with input from all species would go a long way in show how GESO cooperates with its members. This would go a long way with show unity in GESO, but more importantly, it would show that we can come together to agree on a ship that has technology from all member states in it. So what we propose is a new flagship to be made with technology from all member states."
“Venimus, Vidimus, Vicimus"
Member of the:IRON Alliance
Xirvo Corporation "Contractors of the future."
[/floatright][floatleft]
I use 1% of my population: 83,720,000
Budget:41,607,720,541,369.43

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to International Incidents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Astoria, Krawlea, Krvava Koupel, Libetarian Kingdoms

Advertisement

Remove ads