The continental blockade (MT/INVITE ONLY/OOC)

[Inyourfaceistan]

I just quickly threw together a few islands for Thuas..., as I needed to trace that other map and use it for Aanglandia a while back.

I'm thinking Thuas will either be north or west of Aanglandia (or north-west, I guess). This is an old map, but everything is in the right position (Aanglandia is the archipelago from the map originally drawn for Thuas...) for reference: https://i.imgur.com/A4Vm7dY.png?1

(Image)

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Thuasinisdún
Land Area: 1,200 km²
Population: 1,200,000
Population Density: 1,000/km²

I don't think it matters.
Northwest works for me though...

[Ardoki]

Okay, great.

I will be leaving for university shortly, so I can get some study done without distractions. So I won't be posting much today (and perhaps tomorrow as well).

EDIT: I'll try and study at home.

[Inyourfaceistan]

So are we good?

[Ardoki]

So are we good?

I still want to discuss a few more things in detail.

However, does everyone involved agree with this? I don't want to hear any more demands, especially impossible demands such as 'tribute' and 'kowtows'.

If the Ardokian government does give up Thuas... to SACTO, at best there will be mass resignations, while at worst there could be some sort of coup (though this seems unlikely at the moment, though it is still a threat). You're all very lucky this is being considered, because it is highly unrealistic that my government would ever accept this.

[Inyourfaceistan]

So are we good?

I still want to discuss a few more things in detail.

However, does everyone involved agree with this? I don't want to hear any more demands, especially impossible demands such as 'tribute' and 'kowtows'.

Everyone with serious influence on the broad coalition of nations holding the blockade has agreed to me at some point. There might be a few stragglers but they won't be able to pull together the mass of nations like we have done.

Of course the more war criminals you hand over, the more there are to go around, and the more appetites for justice can be satiated.

If the Ardokian government does give up Thuas... to SACTO, at best there will be mass resignations, while at worst there could be some sort of coup (though this seems unlikely at the moment, though it is still a threat). You're all very lucky this is being considered, because it is highly unrealistic that my government would ever accept this.

In the face of blockade and likely war?
Loosing a recently conquered territory and a few people involved with heinous crimes, or loosing their economy, and eventually their military, power, infrastructure and what not?

You would be hard pressed to find a nation that wouldn't so.
(And keep in mind Saddam refuses to pull out of Kuwait because his command were legitimately convinced the US et al were bluffing)

[Ardoki]

I still want to discuss a few more things in detail.

However, does everyone involved agree with this? I don't want to hear any more demands, especially impossible demands such as 'tribute' and 'kowtows'.

Everyone with serious influence on the broad coalition of nations holding the blockade has agreed to me at some point. There might be a few stragglers but they won't be able to pull together the mass of nations like we have done.

Of course the more war criminals you hand over, the more there are to go around, and the more appetites for justice can be satiated.

A few pages back, Nihon (who is undoubtedly a major player in SACTO, and would have a lot of influence over other countries in the blockade) demanded our government pay tribute and 'kowtow' to Nihon.

Ardokians are a somewhat proud people, they would never do anything like that, especially not towards a country they feel is backwards. It would be a national humiliation which many Ardokians would be unable to accept; they would likely lash out at the perceived injustice and embarrassment.

Nihon started this blockade, and all the other countries followed his lead. Is Nihon and the rest of SACTO behind this deal? If so, we can go on to discuss the details and finalise the conditions.

I might understand if a couple of non-SACTO countries involved in the blockade cannot be forced to back down. If that is the case, they will have to be eliminated.

If the Ardokian government does give up Thuas... to SACTO, at best there will be mass resignations, while at worst there could be some sort of coup (though this seems unlikely at the moment, though it is still a threat). You're all very lucky this is being considered, because it is highly unrealistic that my government would ever accept this.

In the face of blockade and likely war?
Loosing a recently conquered territory and a few people involved with heinous crimes, or loosing their economy, and eventually their military, power, infrastructure and what not?

You would be hard pressed to find a nation that wouldn't so.
(And keep in mind Saddam refuses to pull out of Kuwait because his command were legitimately convinced the US et al were bluffing)

Again, Ardokians are quite proud (and a bit indoctrinated). They feel as though Ardoki is the greatest country in the world, a shining beacon of progress and an example for all to follow. They would feel it beneath them to compromise with countries they view as backward, it might even appear as though Ardoki considered them its equals.

Like Aanglandia, Thuas was once a part of Ardoki, and is considered such by the Ardokian people. Not only would they hate the fact that their great country is divided, they would see SACTO influence as a literal invasion and occupation of a part of Ardoki. Ardokians would not be willing to negotiate for something which they truly believe is already theirs; from their point of view, SACTO is the aggressor in their attempt to break apart Ardoki, while Ardoki is a completely innocent victim of imperialism and colonialism.

Humans do not behave completely rationally one hundred percent of the time. Not only are their political realities which might make it better for my government to reject the offer, emotion can often become the primary means of making a decision in place of logic (in large groups, groupthink can make this situation so much worse).

[Inyourfaceistan]

A few pages back, Nihon (who is undoubtedly a major player in SACTO, and would have a lot of influence over other countries in the blockade) demanded our government pay tribute and 'kowtow' to Nihon

That's called "a joke".

Stop conflating OOC with IC...

Nihon started this blockade, and all the other countries followed his lead. Is Nihon and the rest of SACTO behind this deal? If so, we can go on to discuss the details and finalise the conditions.

To be honest most SACTO don't care/don't trust you to actually make a long term deal...

But functionally as far as you are concerned yes, they are behind it.

Again, Ardokians are quite proud (and a bit indoctrinated). They feel as though Ardoki is the greatest country in the world, a shining beacon of progress and an example for all to follow. They would feel it beneath them to compromise with countries they view as backward, it might even appear as though Ardoki considered them its equals.

Like Aanglandia, Thuas was once a part of Ardoki, and is considered such by the Ardokian people. Not only would they hate the fact that their great country is divided, they would see SACTO influence as a literal invasion and occupation of a part of Ardoki. Ardokians would not be willing to negotiate for something which they truly believe is already theirs; from their point of view, SACTO is the aggressor in their attempt to break apart Ardoki, while Ardoki is a completely innocent victim of imperialism and colonialism.

Humans do not behave completely rationally one hundred percent of the time. Not only are their political realities which might make it better for my government to reject the offer, emotion can often become the primary means of making a decision in place of logic (in large groups, groupthink can make this situation so much worse).

Well that's not our fault if monkeys in a tree surrounded by hungry salties refuse to acknowledge they are in a tree surrounded by hungry salties...

[Ardoki]

A few pages back, Nihon (who is undoubtedly a major player in SACTO, and would have a lot of influence over other countries in the blockade) demanded our government pay tribute and 'kowtow' to Nihon

That's called "a joke".

Stop conflating OOC with IC...

This didn't really look like a joke to me, and there was no admission that it was a joke in the following posts.

However, admittedly I am bad at determining sarcasm over the Internet. I'll be sure to remember this, and assume all future incidences are just jokes.

Nihon started this blockade, and all the other countries followed his lead. Is Nihon and the rest of SACTO behind this deal? If so, we can go on to discuss the details and finalise the conditions.

To be honest most SACTO don't care/don't trust you to actually make a long term deal...

But functionally as far as you are concerned yes, they are behind it.

What about the other countries involved in the blockade?

[Inyourfaceistan]

What about the other countries involved in the blockade?

Shaz, who is now in control of the IFC has agreed to call it off.
I will be handing over some of the criminals to the IFC for war crimes tribunals, which will keep most of them satisfied.

[Ardoki]

How much control are you expecting over Thuas?

If you really want to control the people there (who are Ardokian); I expect them to be RPed perfectly (their sentence structure and vocabulary must be correct, their internal thoughts must also must be wholly consistent, their intentions and desires must also conform completely to what they should be, correct guidelines must be followed when selecting visual representations, personality tendencies must be present and not misrepresented in any way, Ardokian culture must be taken into account and used as a filter for all actions, etcetera) .

I had to disown a previous attempted portrayal of an Ardokian because it was terrible wrong and made absolutely no sense.

[Inyourfaceistan]

How much control are you expecting over Thuas?

If you really want to control the people there (who are Ardokian); I expect them to be RPed perfectly (their sentence structure and vocabulary must be correct, their internal thoughts must also must be wholly consistent, their intentions and desires must also conform completely to what they should be, correct guidelines must be followed when selecting visual representations, personality tendencies must be present and not misrepresented in any way, Ardokian culture must be taken into account and used as a filter for all actions, etcetera) .

I had to disown a previous attempted portrayal of an Ardokian because it was terrible wrong and made absolutely no sense.

You are looking for every excuse now, aren't you?

[Ardoki]

How much control are you expecting over Thuas?

If you really want to control the people there (who are Ardokian); I expect them to be RPed perfectly (their sentence structure and vocabulary must be correct, their internal thoughts must also must be wholly consistent, their intentions and desires must also conform completely to what they should be, correct guidelines must be followed when selecting visual representations, personality tendencies must be present and not misrepresented in any way, Ardokian culture must be taken into account and used as a filter for all actions, etcetera) .

I had to disown a previous attempted portrayal of an Ardokian because it was terrible wrong and made absolutely no sense.

You are looking for every excuse now, aren't you?

No. I just want to avoid any misrepresentations, as that will force me not to recognise the portrayal.

I have many other conditions as well; I just wanted to get this one out of the way first.

[Inyourfaceistan]

You are looking for every excuse now, aren't you?

No. I just want to avoid any misrepresentations, as that will force me not to recognise the portrayal.

I have many other conditions as well; I just wanted to get this one out of the way first.

After everything I came through to reach an acceptable compromise, you are really going to make a sentence structure a major obstacle?

[Ardoki]

No. I just want to avoid any misrepresentations, as that will force me not to recognise the portrayal.

I have many other conditions as well; I just wanted to get this one out of the way first.

After everything I came through to reach an acceptable compromise, you are really going to make a sentence structure a major obstacle?

I control Ardokians, they are my nation. If I am going to let others RP them, I need to have assurances it will be done correctly (obviously, that will involve a lot of correspondence with myself, as only I understand my nation far better than others).

That fake Ardokian soldier was so annoying. He looked like a jerk, spoke in a way which showed that he had not grown up in Ardoki or lived there for any reasonable amount of time, showed not a single sign of indoctrination (in fact, it was as if he had been fed libertarian propaganda his entire life, which would not have been possible if he grew up in Ardoki), was a hyper individualist (which makes no sense if he grew up in an incredibly collectivist culture), and suddenly became Christian (even though he would have had access to a science-focused education as a child), etcetera. It made no logical sense for an Ardokian to act like that (even if he was a prisoner of war), so I could not accept him as Ardokian.

[New Aeyariss]

After everything I came through to reach an acceptable compromise, you are really going to make a sentence structure a major obstacle?

I control Ardokians, they are my nation. If I am going to let others RP them, I need to have assurances it will be done correctly (obviously, that will involve a lot of correspondence with myself, as only I understand my nation far better than others).

That fake Ardokian soldier was so annoying. He looked like a jerk, spoke in a way which showed that he had not grown up in Ardoki or lived there for any reasonable amount of time, showed not a single sign of indoctrination (in fact, it was as if he had been fed libertarian propaganda his entire life, which would not have been possible if he grew up in Ardoki), was a hyper individualist (which makes no sense if he grew up in an incredibly collectivist culture), and suddenly became Christian (even though he would have had access to a science-focused education as a child), etcetera. It made no logical sense for an Ardokian to act like that (even if he was a prisoner of war), so I could not accept him as Ardokian.

And you do realize that this isn't one sided way? It is actually Ardoki that is in loosing position, not Grand Coalition... If Grand Coalition can not get what it wants through diplomacy, it will do so by other means...

[Inyourfaceistan]

After everything I came through to reach an acceptable compromise, you are really going to make a sentence structure a major obstacle?

I control Ardokians, they are my nation. If I am going to let others RP them, I need to have assurances it will be done correctly (obviously, that will involve a lot of correspondence with myself, as only I understand my nation far better than others).

So literally after as much as I have tried, you would rather go back to the blockade and possible war than have someone incorrectly RP personalities or sentence structure?
Or just say that people from Thaus are their own seperate ethnicity?
Really?

That fake Ardokian soldier was so annoying. He looked like a jerk, spoke in a way which showed that he had not grown up in Ardoki or lived there for any reasonable amount of time, showed not a single sign of indoctrination (in fact, it was as if he had been fed libertarian propaganda his entire life, which would not have been possible if he grew up in Ardoki), was a hyper individualist (which makes no sense if he grew up in an incredibly collectivist culture), and suddenly became Christian (even though he would have had access to a science-focused education as a child), etcetera. It made no logical sense for an Ardokian to act like that (even if he was a prisoner of war), so I could not accept him as Ardokian.

1) I never OOC'ly confirmed or denied that character was Ardokian. It's Setz so for all you know the user behind that account could be a 5'7" mocha-skinned bro with a mustache, black curly hair and a Fer-de-Lance tatoo...

2) You have no idea what a dynamic individual is, do you?

[Ardoki]

I control Ardokians, they are my nation. If I am going to let others RP them, I need to have assurances it will be done correctly (obviously, that will involve a lot of correspondence with myself, as only I understand my nation far better than others).

So literally after as much as I have tried, you would rather go back to the blockade and possible war than have someone incorrectly RP personalities or sentence structure?
Or just say that people from Thaus are their own seperate ethnicity?
Really?

But that would change a lot of things.

Thuas was supposed to be a small island near Ardoki in the middle of an ocean. Ardokian explorers discovered it several hundreds of years ago (I would say probably the 15th Century); it became an outpost and then a stopover point for Ardokian ships headed to and from the colonies, all the while settlers arrived.

If there was a separate ethnicity there; how did they arrive before the Ardokians (the island is a lot closer to Ardoki than anywhere else)? Why did no Ardokians move there and eventually become a majority (there was about 500 years of Ardokian rule)? Why was there no assimilation or adoption of Ardokian culture and customs?

If Thuas was an Ardokian colony, that would make sense. However, it was intended to be a small island near Ardoki.

[Flardania]

I can sympathize with Ardoki on this issue. If an aspect (former or not) of a user's nation is taken then they should still resemble who they are. Essentially cus remember when I had my election thread? The Tachibana and party we had were not the same we started off with as it had to make sense in the canon.

[Inyourfaceistan]

But that would change a lot of things.

That would change almost nothing.

Thuas was supposed to be a small island near Ardoki in the middle of an ocean. Ardokian explorers discovered it several hundreds of years ago (I would say probably the 15th Century); it became an outpost and then a stopover point for Ardokian ships headed to and from the colonies, all the while settlers arrived.

If there was a separate ethnicity there; how did they arrive before the Ardokians (the island is a lot closer to Ardoki than anywhere else)? Why did no Ardokians move there and eventually become a majority (there was about 500 years of Ardokian rule)? Why was there no assimilation or adoption of Ardokian culture and customs?

"How did the Irish arrive before the English took them over?"
"How did the Cañari arrive before the Inca took them over?"
"How did the Basques, Occitanians and Catalonians arrive before the French & Spanish divided them up?"

If Thuas was an Ardokian colony, that would make sense. However, it was intended to be a small island near Ardoki.

And in what nonsensical parallel universe are the two terms mutually exclusive?

[Inyourfaceistan]

But hey if imperfect portrayal is too much for you after everything I did to save a deal; then we can always go back to blockading and probably war.
Either way works for me...

[Flardania]

But hey if imperfect portrayal is too much for you after everything I did to save a deal; then we can always go back to blockading and probably war.
Either way works for me...

Or the third option is to cooperate and plan the canon......you know together which is what rping is........

[New Aeyariss]

Or the third option is to cooperate and plan the canon......you know together which is what rping is........

You are implying that I RPed Tachibana in wrong way? That is news to me, as I remember us having little disagreements then.

[Inyourfaceistan]

But hey if imperfect portrayal is too much for you after everything I did to save a deal; then we can always go back to blockading and probably war.
Either way works for me...

Or the third option is to cooperate and plan the canon......you know together which is what rping is........

Cooperation is a two-way street. You can't possibly expect us to concede any further than we already have.

I am so fucking tired of people expecting me to keep giving in when the other side refuses to budge over the stupidest shit.

[Flardania]

Or the third option is to cooperate and plan the canon......you know together which is what rping is........

You are implying that I RPed Tachibana in wrong way? That is news to me, as I remember us having little disagreements then.

I stated Tachibana was done right because we planned.

Or the third option is to cooperate and plan the canon......you know together which is what rping is........

Cooperation is a two-way street. You can't possibly expect us to concede any further than we already have.

I am so fucking tired of people expecting me to keep giving in when the other side refuses to budge over the stupidest shit.

Making sure something you create does not drastically change when handed the account is in another hand is not stupid shit. I would expect if I was to borrow your account you would want me to rp appropriate to how Inyursta would react in the same way as you would not be able to properly rp my nation without discussion with me.

[New Aeyariss]

Or the third option is to cooperate and plan the canon......you know together which is what rping is........

Cooperation is a two-way street. You can't possibly expect us to concede any further than we already have.

I am so fucking tired of people expecting me to keep giving in when the other side refuses to budge over the stupidest shit.

The problem with Ardoki is that he does not realize how quickly I could decimate his nuclear arsenal, thus rendering any second response extremely weak; and the fact that even without that I could do serious damage even without firing a bullet. Soviet military theoreticians fully agreed that nuclear war is winnable with as much as 80% of total potential their state had before the war erupted.

Peace is not really in interest of the Empire of Greater Nihon; damaging Ardoki as a nation is. If Ardoki wants peace, it has to give something in return.