NationStates Post-Modern Tech Community Thread

[UniversalCommons]

Very interesting stuff. How have you guys used that biotech in RPs?

I used the industrial cloning vats to make some stuff in early RPs under a different moniker. Nacre for armor for example. A lot of players use spider silk in ballistic armor which can be possible made with transgenic goats. Transgenic silkworms offer some real mad science type possibilities. The industrial cloning vat is an element of fantasy assuming mass production of a particular type of tissue or biological culture. In vitro meat is a real product that could be used in space for example to provide meat where having large animals is not very practical.

[The Macabees]

Do you ever pose the possibility of you using PMT tech in those MT RPs? If so, how's the response?

[Vistora]

Do you ever pose the possibility of you using PMT tech in those MT RPs? If so, how's the response?

Given how terrifyingly stringent some serious MT groups are about detail and adherence, I doubt that would fly too well with them. I suppose that some MT+ nations can gain some wriggle room, but there's no way a nation like Vistora could RP in an MT setting.

[The Macabees]

Do you ever pose the possibility of you using PMT tech in those MT RPs? If so, how's the response?

...but there's no way a nation like Vistora could RP in an MT setting.

Suppose that all involved parties know that what matters is the story, so there's a general level of comfort that differences in tech won't be abused. Do you still think that's true?

[The Macabees]

The reason I ask is because between ~2003–05, these hard tech limits were a lot fuzzier. There were, of course, still frictions. In an ultimately abortive war between NATO and RWC — the two "big alliances" at the time —, we saw FT nations join a MT war, and that obviously caused a stir. But, the tech gap between a MT and PMT nation can be a lot less obvious, and it can also matter a lot less. In fact, I don't remember distinguishing between the two at the time. There were players who used buckyball armor on their tanks, and those were taken as canon regardless of whether they're PMT or MT.

It makes sense for people to split themselves into specialized groups, because that way they have a greater probability of interacting with the right kind of players (where 'right kind' is defined by each person's preference set). But, I don't think it far-fetched for techs to be mixed.

[The IASM]

I shall be keeping an eye on this.

Nanomachines son!

[Vistora]

...but there's no way a nation like Vistora could RP in an MT setting.

Suppose that all involved parties know that what matters is the story, so there's a general level of comfort that differences in tech won't be abused. Do you still think that's true?

I suppose it depends on the context then, but most MT RPs that I have encountered involve armed conflict between nations and nation-level entities, and thus tech level inevitably makes a big difference. Otherwise, RPs that are focused around individual characters rather than nations typically have all characters created within the context of that singular canon. Granted, the RPs I'm a part of might be more the exception than the norm.

But regarding the story, it is just too hard to justify a setting that involves nations of such disparate tech levels. Again, while MT+ might have some wiggle room, my VSOP commandos would just be out of place among even the special forces of an MT nation.

The reason I ask is because between ~2003–05, these hard tech limits were a lot fuzzier. There were, of course, still frictions. In an ultimately abortive war between NATO and RWC — the two "big alliances" at the time —, we saw FT nations join a MT war, and that obviously caused a stir. But, the tech gap between a MT and PMT nation can be a lot less obvious, and it can also matter a lot less. In fact, I don't remember distinguishing between the two at the time. There were players who used buckyball armor on their tanks, and those were taken as canon regardless of whether they're PMT or MT.

It makes sense for people to split themselves into specialized groups, because that way they have a greater probability of interacting with the right kind of players (where 'right kind' is defined by each person's preference set). But, I don't think it far-fetched for techs to be mixed.

I suppose my worry is that, from what I have seen, there is a genuinely competitive element to some conflict RPs, and thus requires actual balancing. Not that interaction between nations of different tech levels is impossible--the LoM even set up a war RP that involved both piddly MT nations and a few genuine omniwankers, though it died pretty fast--but such requires a lot of sometimes nonsensical finagling.

[Post War America]

Do you ever pose the possibility of you using PMT tech in those MT RPs? If so, how's the response?

Yeah I usually do, but I wind up having to dial it all back to the point that there's no meaningful difference. Most of the time, decent MT RPers tend to be so wrapped in "Absolut Realizms" that they cannot comprehend mixing technology. At least in my experience.

I'd wager the PMT/FanT thing doesn't help either.

[The Macabees]

We have a lot of success in the region I'm in mixing MT and PMT elements.

My philosophy follows a mix of competitive and collaborative elements. My goal in each RP is to create a framework of rules that gives each player a lot of creative freedom, but at the same time constrains each person in just the right way to make sure the RP flows well (both ICly and OOCly). What I generally do is collaborate on the macro-scale, or big picture. The reason I do this is because as the stakes rise, the willingness to cooperate decreases when the cost of loss increases. So why not collaborate on an ending (which can be as abstract or specific as you'd like) at the beginning, so that each player is RPing with a common vision? For example, in my current war RP with Scandinvan, we have a broad idea of how the RP will end — my invasion will ultimately fail, but his slave trade in Greater Dienstad will be extinguished. With that settled, and since there's no longer any macro-level risk, we can enjoy a lot of creative freedom on the micro-level. And because it's competitive at the micro-level, players are more likely to use their wit and their creativity to come up with imaginative solutions to difficult and dynamic problems.

So I can use crazy PM tech, because the other players in the thread know that it won't change the big picture. In other words, it reassures them that I won't use PM tech to wank.

[Just in case there are any other economists in the room, I like to think of it as an institutional framework that helps solve a lemons problem.]

[Singaporean Transhumans]

There was a time when I was on another nation, stereotypically communist yet somehow democratic and multi-party, all while being sorta cyberpunk PMT. I jumped into this MT RP and 'used only modern tech' and yet embarrassingly ported fuel cell vehicles and EMP weapons into that RP. so cringeworthy

I even actually jumped into a MT RP back when I was a Combine ripoff. But that intervention didn't go for long when I realized Combine soldiers still looked pretty weird fighting modern day people

Nowadays I just use puppets and proxies with a background cutting edge of sorts.

[UniversalCommons]

The real problem in MT is when people start using inventions that are happening right now, or technology like the Zumwalt naval ship being in mass production. This tends to throw MT roleplays out the window.

[Singaporean Transhumans]

The real problem in MT is when people start using inventions that are happening right now, or technology like the Zumwalt naval ship being in mass production. This tends to throw MT roleplays out the window.

exactly what i did

[The Macabees]

Why do you think that creates problems?

[UniversalCommons]

It creates anachronisms where there are different levels of technology going on at the same time. It also allows you to create super units with a close to complete package of super gear which you tend to over use. This leads to single unit focus. You have your Future Force Warrior with your AA-12 shotgun with rocket powered remington fragmentation shotgun shells, an underbarrel 3 shot metalstorm 40mm grenade launcher. laser targeting system and a bandolier of antitank stick grenades... it gets silly.

[Post War America]

Indeed... I also don't appreciate the MT folk who use the latest and greatest of everything. I find it vexing, seen as the current trend is toward "realism" in everything, but having ridiculously unrealistic massive armies powered by the bleeding edge of technology, but chastise people for using stuff that's a bit more speculative.

[The Macabees]

It only gets silly if you allow it to, right? As I see it, if you know the limits of PMT in a MT framework, then you shouldn't be worried about overstepping those limits. I, of course, agree that there are always silly ideas, but silly is always context dependent, and ultimately it's the context (the RP/story/plot) that matters.

With comments like these,

The real problem in MT is when people start using inventions that are happening right now, or technology like the Zumwalt naval ship being in mass production. This tends to throw MT roleplays out the window.

I think the issue in the examples you guys give has more to do with method (lack of collaboration), more so than the setting.

[Post War America]

I would concur with that assessment, and that I've generally had a better time with collaborators than with competitors. I just wish everybody had a big red indicators over their Avatar saying which they were.

[Rezzurus]

I'm coming back from the dead just to say this.

You shouldn't worry about anachronisms or people using stuff that is only in prototype stage at this moment. We're all fictional nations existing in a fictional universe of our own making, anything is possible. Technology should only ever be approached as Window Dressing. It should never have center stage in your RP. Technology should be treated as a stage prop, nothing more. If someone has stuff from, say, Ghost Recon Future Soldier, so long as they use it responsibly and not as a iWin button, then you shouldn't worry about it.

Collaboratation and Compromise, they're two extremely vital components in making a thread work.

[Vistora]

I'm coming back from the dead just to say this.

You shouldn't worry about anachronisms or people using stuff that is only in prototype stage at this moment. We're all fictional nations existing in a fictional universe of our own making, anything is possible. Technology should only ever be approached as Window Dressing. It should never have center stage in your RP. Technology should be treated as a stage prop, nothing more. If someone has stuff from, say, Ghost Recon Future Soldier, so long as they use it responsibly and not as a iWin button, then you shouldn't worry about it.

Collaboratation and Compromise, they're two extremely vital components in making a thread work.

I don't know, I somewhat disagree with your assertion that technology is subservient to story. In Cyberpunk especially, it is the technology present that defines the setting, provides the impetus for a lot of action and conflict, and indeed is responsible for the presence of the story itself; after all, how could Asimov have written his novels on the effects of sentient robots in society without that core, critical element of sentient robotics?

[The Macabees]

It's true that some settings will clash, and that in many senses different styles don't really work together.

However, the overarching idea behind the RP doesn't have to be about one setting or the other, it can be about how these different settings, or cultures, clash and how the characters deal with these issues. It's like saying mixing Far Eastern ideas with Western ideas doesn't work, but it often does, including if it's about how these ideas clash and how people overcome the problems this poses. And it doesn't even have to be the main focus of the RP; it's simply the way how seemingly disparate tech-levels can work together, assuming of course that the players involved want to do that.*

* If a player absolutely doesn't want to mix tech levels, that has to be respected too. There's nothing wrong about that stance.

[Post War America]

On an unreleated note... Mac, would you be willing to let me add a story or two to yer Stories from a long war thread. I kind of wanted to explore how my nation watched, learned, and adapted to a multiversal existed... and having some of my people observe the conflict would, I feel be a good way to explore that.

[The Macabees]

On an unreleated note... Mac, would you be willing to let me add a story or two to yer Stories from a long war thread. I kind of wanted to explore how my nation watched, learned, and adapted to a multiversal existed... and having some of my people observe the conflict would, I feel be a good way to explore that.

Go for it! That would be really fun to read.

[Post War America]

On an unreleated note... Mac, would you be willing to let me add a story or two to yer Stories from a long war thread. I kind of wanted to explore how my nation watched, learned, and adapted to a multiversal existed... and having some of my people observe the conflict would, I feel be a good way to explore that.

Go for it! That would be really fun to read.

If I'm getting this right, the conflict is essentially a slave liberation operation? Or is there a lot more realpolitik involved>

[The Macabees]

If I'm getting this right, the conflict is essentially a slave liberation operation? Or is there a lot more realpolitik involved?

The war is an invasion of Scandinvan with the intent to force into unconditional surrender. Anti-slaving is an angle that many nations have interpreted the war from (ICly), and that has certainly helped my country sell the war, but it's not the official purpose. We're invading because of their meddling in our affairs. Scand had funded and armed the rebellion of the pirate city-states along the southern coast of a Macabean territory, and to dissuade further attempts to do so by them or any other country, the Golden Throne decided to launch an invasion of the Scandinvan Empire. There are other ambitions on both sides that will reveal themselves as the RP goes on, as well.

The way that I described the idea early on was "two guys at a bar looking for a fight." My country is coming out of a 5–6 year political and economic slumber, and with the recent annexations of various territories adrenaline is pumping. Scand, on the other hand, is facing internal tensions, and the war will bring about a further radicalization of his country (the Sons of Erid). These dynamics influenced the direction of the conflict as well.

[Post War America]

Tis a fairly interesting concept... its a damn shame that A) you're pretty deep into it, and B) The pitiful force I contribute would pale in comparison to the numbers I was seeing, and C) I lack the ability to write anything that would give that RP proper justice. At least I could write a story or two.