NationStates Post-Modern Tech Community Thread

[New Aeyariss]

That's a great question. I think Cuscy will try to cover as much ground as he can; I'm sure he'll accept help in getting an understanding of unique PMT settings that might call for different approaches. At the same time, if you're thinking of cyberpunk, I have a strong feeling he'll cover that. If his great insight so far is any guide, he'll talk about the Information Technology and cyberwarfare aspect of insurgencies and COIN.

Yeah. With Cuscy's major.involvement in MT RP communities, I would expect his area of (considerable) expertise to lay within the near-future setting, where military doctrine won't differ too radically from modern teachings, of which he has an impressive amount of knowledge. My purview, on the other hand, is extensive and in-depth theorizing on settings in a more mid-to-far PMT context, into which cyberpunk fits.

I am actually going around 2030 - 2050 period. And it is in general based on speculations caused by trends observed now.

The guide will be divide into two parts; first one, the constants, would describe what will NOT change and why. Second one, the trends, will describe the WILL change.

[Post War America]

Yeah. With Cuscy's major.involvement in MT RP communities, I would expect his area of (considerable) expertise to lay within the near-future setting, where military doctrine won't differ too radically from modern teachings, of which he has an impressive amount of knowledge. My purview, on the other hand, is extensive and in-depth theorizing on settings in a more mid-to-far PMT context, into which cyberpunk fits.

I am actually going around 2030 - 2050 period. And it is in general based on speculations caused by trends observed now.

The guide will be divide into two parts; first one, the constants, would describe what will NOT change and why. Second one, the trends, will describe the WILL change.

You wouldn't perhaps be covering anything to do with the electronic world would you?

[United World Order]

Back on the topic of Railgun technology and with what Kraven posted about his Stratosphere Gun. It looks to me from what he described about his modern FLAK cannon that it essentially is a railgun of sorts or I guess probably utilizes similar concepts from Railguns. I've always been interested in developing Railgun technology that could target aircraft and could possibly be a lower cost solution to missiles since as we know for example with the U.S. A missile costs several million dollars, every single one that's produced and then in turn used in combat. While if things like the Stratosphere Gun were implemented in some way with Railgun tech then it could possibly in my mind lower the cost of munitions or give you a cheap option instead of AA missiles and the such. More so I think i'm going to build off on the Stratosphere gun as inspiration for a few PMT designs of my own involving Railgun tech that can act as Anti Air platforms and etc.

[New Aeyariss]

I am actually going around 2030 - 2050 period. And it is in general based on speculations caused by trends observed now.

The guide will be divide into two parts; first one, the constants, would describe what will NOT change and why. Second one, the trends, will describe the WILL change.

You wouldn't perhaps be covering anything to do with the electronic world would you?

I will be covering hacking to limited degree.

[Haishan]

Would like to add my Flak gun to the glossary

I suggest that the glossary is best reserved for common known concept in PMT, like railgun which (almost) everyone would have rather than have specific one kind of stuff being used by an individual player. In other words, mainstream fad items better suited for the glossary otherwise it will set precedent that unique creations of singular nation would overwhelm the glossary itself.

electromagnetic rifling

Please explain. So you're using some sort of rail to further spin the projectile in the barrel or something? I'm aware of adding EM (i.e coilgun) section to a conventional cannon but they put it at the muzzle brake. I feel however it makes sense more if the said piece is made like Stonehedge in Ace Combat where an initial gun charge propel the round before further accelerated by railgun section.

Back on the topic of Railgun technology and with what Kraven posted about his Stratosphere Gun. It looks to me from what he described about his modern FLAK cannon that it essentially is a railgun of sorts or I guess probably utilizes similar concepts from Railguns. I've always been interested in developing Railgun technology that could target aircraft and could possibly be a lower cost solution to missiles since as we know for example with the U.S. A missile costs several million dollars, every single one that's produced and then in turn used in combat. While if things like the Stratosphere Gun were implemented in some way with Railgun tech then it could possibly in my mind lower the cost of munitions or give you a cheap option instead of AA missiles and the such. More so I think i'm going to build off on the Stratosphere gun as inspiration for a few PMT designs of my own involving Railgun tech that can act as Anti Air platforms and etc.

Protip, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev0G49jXJX0 .

[Haishan]

Yes it is a weapon unique to me, I felt that the system was also uniquely PMT to warrant it's inclusion, but I'll leave that decision down to Mac.

The weapon itself is smoothbore, essentially a coil gun in design, but does away with traditional rifling to improve the gas seal through the barrel this improves velocity but retains accuracy by spinning the round like conventional rifling.

That's a weird way of doing it. In my opinion, an electromagnetically propelled gun is essentially point click weapon. Sure you have velocity at your side but the target may have more maneuverability and evade the cannon round by out maneuvering the gun mount turning rate despite the munition's fast velocity. So rather trying to spin the projectile towards the target, what if you make it to have either adaptive fusing or some sort of maneuvering flap to the munition?

That will massively increase accuracy (and cost, by the way) of the munition. The trend for medium to big caliber guns (especially for AA) favour munitions that can maneuver themselves toward the target somehow to make do with the gun's low rate of fire and increase probability of kill. See Vulcano DART guided-ammunition or 35mm AHEAD ammunition. 120 mm shell is more than enough to stick some kind of flap to it and guidance system plus adaptive fusing. FYI the USN is conceptualizing on guided railgun rounds.

[The Macabees]

Don't mean to interrupt, but re: glossary. You know, I don't want to dictate what can go in there. I was hoping that the thread, and that includes purpose and glossary, get shaped by the community. I get Haishan's hesitation to add very specific terms, because then we might be having to add everyone's tech. At the same time, if that's what people want, we can go that route. I don't have a preference either way, and if I do it doesn't matter.

[The Macabees]

I added the term with a paraphrased definition.

I've been thinking of the glossary issue and here is a soft rule* proposal:

1. Individual weapons are glossary-candidates if they are "household canon," where the latter is defined as a minimum standard of fame; AND,
2. The individual weapon must be representative of a PMT "school of thought."

Of course, "household canon" and "minimum standard of fame" are vague, but it's a start.

* E.g. a rule of thumb.

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

I added the term with a paraphrased definition.

I've been thinking of the glossary issue and here is a soft rule* proposal:

1. Individual weapons are glossary-candidates if they are "household canon," where the latter is defined as a minimum standard of fame; AND,
2. The individual weapon must be representative of a PMT "school of thought."

Of course, "household canon" and "minimum standard of fame" are vague, but it's a start.

* E.g. a rule of thumb.

I think the glossary is better reserved for generic terms rather than for specific designs. Things like "railgun, "coilgun", "ETC ignition", etc

[Vistora]

I added the term with a paraphrased definition.

I've been thinking of the glossary issue and here is a soft rule* proposal:

1. Individual weapons are glossary-candidates if they are "household canon," where the latter is defined as a minimum standard of fame; AND,
2. The individual weapon must be representative of a PMT "school of thought."

Of course, "household canon" and "minimum standard of fame" are vague, but it's a start.

* E.g. a rule of thumb.

I think the glossary is better reserved for generic terms rather than for specific designs. Thinks like "railgun, "coilgun", "ETC ignition", etc

I very much agree; in order for this thread to be a successful resource to nascent players, we should keep the glossary to more generalized terms rather than specific weapons relevant only to their creator.

That being said, I would like to clarify another important genre of PMT to perhaps be added to the glossary: Post-Cyberpunk. Obviously related to Cyberpunk, Post-Cyberpunk is a generally more idealistic take on the future of technology, rather than the doomspelling dystopianism of classic Cyberpunk. Technology is portrayed most typically as a neutral force that can be used for good or evil, while the "system" present is generally not an ultimately antagonistic, faceless monolith of destruction. Essentially, Post-Cyberpunk, while a distant cry from utopian, focuses on weaving its story in a more hopeful setting.

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

Here's a WIP PMT design of mine:

Note: My nation fits into the MT+10 category (or light/early PMT) so things perhaps aren't as exotic as what other PMT RPers are accustomed to seeing. As a rule of thumb I generally restrict myself to technology that actually been physically tested (like a scramjet) and has technical papers/testing data published so I can get a general idea of its performance characteristics.

Model was made be me using Solidworks, a 3D Computer Aided Design/Drafting (CAD) software, if anyone is curious.

Name:	Waverider Hypersonic Strike Missile
Length:	8.0m
Width:	0.7 m
Wingspan:	1.24 m
Weight:	2,700 kg
Propulsion:	Hydrocarbon fueled Scramjet, Solid Rocket Booster
Speed:	Mach 6
Operational Range:	3,500km-5,000km
Flight Altitude:	20,000 m
Guidance:	INS/GPS, TERCOM, Terminal IR homing (submunitions)
Warhead Options	1x 500kg earth penetrating munition 2x independently targetable 250kg BROACH submunitions 2x independently targetable 250kg blast-fragmentation submunitions 2x senor fused submunitions dispensers, 6x BLU-108 each
Launch platforms	Strategic Bomber, Cruise Missile Submarine (SSGN)

The waverider is designed to be a long range hypersonic missile which will compromise the air based leg of my nation's "conventional prompt global strike capability", or the capability to at a moments notice attack a target anywhere on the planet with a conventional munition in less than one hour. The waverider is primarily intended to be carried by the Harbinger Stealth Bomber, my nation's main strategic bomber. The Harbinger will carry 12 waveriders on two internal rotary launchers. The waverider is designed to be launched from the Harbinger at an altitude of around 15,000 meters. After being ejected from the bomb bay and dropping a few dozen meters the rocket booster of the Waverider then activates and takes the missile vertically up to 20,000 meters where the missile turns horizontally and the rocket booster accelerates the missile to mach 4.5 before being discarded. Starting at mach 4 the scramjet engine lights with the exhaust being vented out of the interstage section. After booster separation the scramjet accelerates the missile to mach 6 where it then cruises until the scramjet burns out. The missile then glides towards the target with its speed and high L/D ratio letting it glide over 1000 kilometers through the atmosphere before it crashes. The name "waverider" comes from the missile's use of hypersonic shockwaves to generate lift.

The Waverider itself is constructed out of aluminum while the rocket booster is made from titanium. The aluminum skin is coated with an ablative silica TPS which is designed to withstand the extreme heat of sustained hypersonic flight while also minimizing heat transfer to the aluminum skin of the missile. The nose of the missile where heat stress is the highest is coated with a molybdenum-zirconium-titanium refractory superalloy which can endure temperatures over 1,000 degrees C. The scramjet of the waverider is constructed from inconel, a type of high temperature nickel superalloy. The scramjet is cooled by circulating hydrocarbon fuel trough the walls of the scramjet before the fuel is ignited in the combustor. The missile is designed to use JP-7 fuel (Same as the one used on the SR-71) of which the Waverider carries some 1,000kg in a nitrogen inerted tank in the center of the fuselage. Guidance is via GPS/INS system with a radar altimeter which is used for TERCOM (Terrain Contour Matching). Each Waverider is also fitted with a two way satellite datalink which allows for mid-course guidance correction as well as the missile's target to be reprogrammed in flight.

The payload section of the waverider is rather unique and deserves some explanation. Instead of crashing into the target like a conventional missile the Waverider ejects either one or two guided submunitions when it passes over the target. With two submunitions the missile can thus glide to one target, eject one submunition, then glide to another target before ejecting the other submunition. The choice of warhead is rather expansive and allows the waverider to engage a multitude of targets. the The 500kg unitary perpetrator munition features a hardened blast fragmentation warhead attached to a rocket booster which accelerates it to M3.5 before impact. The 500kg warhead is made from a super-hard silicon carbide ceramic matrix composite with a shock and temperature insensitive aluminium-molybdenum(VI) oxide explosive. Penetration is in excess of 30 meters of earth and 6 meters of reinforced concrete. For attaching less hardened targets the waverider can be fitted with two 250kg BROACH submunitions which can each penetrate some 2 meters of reinforced concrete. The broach munition is unpowered and contains an IR seeker, glide fins, and a 100kg shaped charge followed by a 150kg blast fragmentation warhead. For softer targets like unprotected structures or exposed infantry the waverider can be fitted with two 250kg blast fragmentation submunitions. Each submunitions has an IR seeker, glide fins, and a multi-mode proximity fuse which can be set to airburst, impact, or various delay settings. For destroying groups of vehicles the waverider can be fitted with two sensor fused submunitions which each contain six BLU-108 sensor fused munitions, wind corrected munitions dispenser tail kit, and a drag chute for slowing the submunition down to subsonic velocities before the cluster munitions are ejected. Each BLU-108 dispenser launches four "skeets" which consist of a dual mode IR/laser seeker and an EFP warhead which is designed to attack the weaker top armor of armored vehicles.

[UniversalCommons]

Would there be any advantage in an EM coil in a shotgun or automatic shotgun. Would it do anything for range or stopping power. Call it the ACS-10 Automatic Coil Shotgun 10 guage and use the style of fragmentation shells from the AA-12. Just curious what the advantage might or might not be for this.

[Vistora]

Would there be any advantage in an EM coil in a shotgun or automatic shotgun. Would it do anything for range or stopping power. Call it the ACS-10 Automatic Coil Shotgun 10 guage and use the style of fragmentation shells from the AA-12. Just curious what the advantage might or might not be for this.

That depends wholly on the capabilities of the EM assembly, but no, I would say that the significantly increased size, weight, and complexity is not worth whatever marginal benefits you can squeeze from it, not unless you're advanced enough to completely replace propellant-based weapons with EM ones effectively and efficiently.

[Haishan]

Would there be any advantage in an EM coil in a shotgun or automatic shotgun. Would it do anything for range or stopping power. Call it the ACS-10 Automatic Coil Shotgun 10 guage and use the style of fragmentation shells from the AA-12. Just curious what the advantage might or might not be for this.

Bring on the future of rocket-propelled shot gun rounds. It's not like NS players follow Geneva Convention on explosive ammunition on small arms. The primary issue with EM technology is the power pack and efficiency of such coil/rails. Sure you can have it given consideration of PMT power management system but Vistora is right, practically it would be better if you make grunt weapons not as complex and leave EM technology for big guns.

Now I have a question for thread; by PMT time scale would room temperature superconductor becomes feasible? I read around a little bit and some IRL researchers theorised that superconductivity is a function of material arrangement and thickness of such stuff. Consider that we can actually build a stuff, atom by atom IRL now, so I hypothesize that room temperature superconductor will be legit somewhat in PMT. And if it does, perhaps it will solve Vistoria's concern on inefficiency of such EM assembly in UniversalCommons' idea.

[Vistora]

Would there be any advantage in an EM coil in a shotgun or automatic shotgun. Would it do anything for range or stopping power. Call it the ACS-10 Automatic Coil Shotgun 10 guage and use the style of fragmentation shells from the AA-12. Just curious what the advantage might or might not be for this.

Bring on the future of rocket-propelled shot gun rounds. It's not like NS players follow Geneva Convention on explosive ammunition on small arms. The primary issue with EM technology is the power pack and efficiency of such coil/rails. Sure you can have it given consideration of PMT power management system but Vistora is right, practically it would be better if you make grunt weapons not as complex and leave EM technology for big guns.

Now I have a question for thread; by PMT time scale would room temperature superconductor becomes feasible? I read around a little bit and some IRL researchers theorised that superconductivity is a function of material arrangement and thickness of such stuff. Consider that we can actually build a stuff, atom by atom IRL now, so I hypothesize that room temperature superconductor will be legit somewhat in PMT. And if it does, perhaps it will solve Vistoria's concern on inefficiency of such EM assembly in UniversalCommons' idea.

I don't believe there is any physical constraint forbidding their existence, and thus, if it exists, it is simply a matter of discovering what complex composite formulation could create such a material. Again, that's a big if, not to mention that material-property issues with the current crop of high-temp superconductors prevent them from being widely in use. For example, YBCO can be cooled below critical temperature with liquid nitrogen (a relatively easy low-temp coolant), yet is a brittle ceramic that is difficult to machine and utilize. It's not so much an issue of synthesis as it is formulating a useful room-temp superconductor in the first place.

[UniversalCommons]

GE Recently made a major breakthrough recently in high temperature superconducting in 2013. It has led to 10MW + Wind turbines, and a variety of improvements in energy generation. I think the full effect has just begun. It changes the economics of wind power, gas turbines, and hydroelectric.

http://www.windpowerengineering.com/des ... eneration/

[The Macabees]

I very much agree; in order for this thread to be a successful resource to nascent players, we should keep the glossary to more generalized terms rather than specific weapons relevant only to their creator.

That being said, I would like to clarify another important genre of PMT to perhaps be added to the glossary: Post-Cyberpunk. Obviously related to Cyberpunk, Post-Cyberpunk is a generally more idealistic take on the future of technology, rather than the doomspelling dystopianism of classic Cyberpunk. Technology is portrayed most typically as a neutral force that can be used for good or evil, while the "system" present is generally not an ultimately antagonistic, faceless monolith of destruction. Essentially, Post-Cyberpunk, while a distant cry from utopian, focuses on weaving its story in a more hopeful setting.

Added.

And, if that's the majority opinion (which it seems it is, so far), then that's fine by me, re: glossary and specific designs.

[Quattore]

Disregarding the costs of obtaining it, how well will hydrogen perform as a tank fuel, provided the technology required matures enough?

[Vistora]

Disregarding the costs of obtaining it, how well will hydrogen perform as a tank fuel, provided the technology required matures enough?

Ooh, glad you asked. The current issue with hydrogen is storage, as it simply cannot match the volumetric energy densities of hydrocrabon fuels like petrol, diesel, and kerosene. The solution I found was to use a theoretical formulation of liquid hydride chemicals, which can potentially store hydrogen at volumetric densities high enough to compete with hydrocarbon fuel. Otherwise, I don't think it is any less effective of a combustant.

[Quattore]

Disregarding the costs of obtaining it, how well will hydrogen perform as a tank fuel, provided the technology required matures enough?

Ooh, glad you asked. The current issue with hydrogen is storage, as it simply cannot match the volumetric energy densities of hydrocrabon fuels like petrol, diesel, and kerosene. The solution I found was to use a theoretical formulation of liquid hydride chemicals, which can potentially store hydrogen at volumetric densities high enough to compete with hydrocarbon fuel. Otherwise, I don't think it is any less effective of a combustant.

Are there any safety risks though in its use as (explicitly) a tank fuel?

And how much would these risks be reduced by a well-pressured engine?

[Vistora]

Ooh, glad you asked. The current issue with hydrogen is storage, as it simply cannot match the volumetric energy densities of hydrocrabon fuels like petrol, diesel, and kerosene. The solution I found was to use a theoretical formulation of liquid hydride chemicals, which can potentially store hydrogen at volumetric densities high enough to compete with hydrocarbon fuel. Otherwise, I don't think it is any less effective of a combustant.

Are there any safety risks though in its use as (explicitly) a tank fuel?

And how much would these risks be reduced by a well-pressured engine?

That's hard to say, as this theoretical hydride technically only exists, well, in theory. The chemical composition is unknown, but it's unlikely to be very flammable in as of itself, as these hydrides require elevated temperatures and pressures to release their hydrogen contents. All in all, I'd say it is safer than gasoline, really. Hydrogen itself is problematic because it's an invisble, odorless (bitter almonds is the scent of hydrogen cyanide), extremely flammable gas that burns with a difficult-to-see flame. That being said, gasoline also shares some of these issues, being a volatile hydrocarbon and all. So no, no safety risks as far as I could know.

[Haishan]

Are there any safety risks though in its use as (explicitly) a tank fuel?

And how much would these risks be reduced by a well-pressured engine?

That's hard to say, as this theoretical hydride technically only exists, well, in theory. The chemical composition is unknown, but it's unlikely to be very flammable in as of itself, as these hydrides require elevated temperatures and pressures to release their hydrogen contents. All in all, I'd say it is safer than gasoline, really. Hydrogen itself is problematic because it's an invisble, odorless (bitter almonds is the scent of hydrogen cyanide), extremely flammable gas that burns with a difficult-to-see flame. That being said, gasoline also shares some of these issues, being a volatile hydrocarbon and all. So no, no safety risks as far as I could know.

Hydride as hydrogen carrier have been experimentally tested, so no they're not theoretical. The primary issue using them is the hydride binds with hydrogen too strongly or complex synthesis or have gravimetrically bad energy content compared to ordinary petrol.

There are also alternatives to the storage issue, like Liquid Organic Hydrogen Carrier (LOHC) and Metal-Organic-Framework (MOF) but as perception goes LOHC seems the likely candidate although they're in early experimental phase IRL.

Or the solution could be simpler and store hydrogen in....synthetic diesel and use a reformer or SOFC to generate power directly out of them than fussing on choosing appropriate hydrogen storage medium. The society IRL is built around conventional fossil fuel and it's very hard to beat qualities of such fuel. My suggestion is to supplement to it rather than radical replacement due to consideration of time and monies taken for such switch. There's an issue to make every vehicle able to use hydrogen gas and ensure they don't explode for some strange reason.

[Vistora]

That's hard to say, as this theoretical hydride technically only exists, well, in theory. The chemical composition is unknown, but it's unlikely to be very flammable in as of itself, as these hydrides require elevated temperatures and pressures to release their hydrogen contents. All in all, I'd say it is safer than gasoline, really. Hydrogen itself is problematic because it's an invisble, odorless (bitter almonds is the scent of hydrogen cyanide), extremely flammable gas that burns with a difficult-to-see flame. That being said, gasoline also shares some of these issues, being a volatile hydrocarbon and all. So no, no safety risks as far as I could know.

Hydride as hydrogen carrier have been experimentally tested, so no they're not theoretical. The primary issue using them is the hydride binds with hydrogen too strongly or complex synthesis or have gravimetrically bad energy content compared to ordinary petrol.

There are also alternatives to the storage issue, like Liquid Organic Hydrogen Carrier (LOHC) and Metal-Organic-Framework (MOF) but as perception goes LOHC seems the likely candidate although they're in early experimental phase IRL.

Or the solution could be simpler and store hydrogen in....synthetic diesel and use a reformer or SOFC to generate power directly out of them than fussing on choosing appropriate hydrogen storage medium. The society IRL is built around conventional fossil fuel and it's very hard to beat qualities of such fuel. My suggestion is to supplement to it rather than radical replacement due to consideration of time and monies taken for such switch. There's an issue to make every vehicle able to use hydrogen gas and ensure they don't explode for some strange reason.

By theoretical, I didn't mean hydrogen-carrying hydrides themselves were theoretical, I meant that a liquid hydride with all of the ideal qualities listed is theoretical. And when I call something theoretical, that's me generally placing it quite high up the chain of plausibility.

Also, I'm assuming that the aforementioned LHOCs aren't burning the organic compounds themselves, and just using them to store hydrogen? Otherwise, that would rather defeat the point.

[Haishan]

By theoretical, I didn't mean hydrogen-carrying hydrides themselves were theoretical, I meant that a liquid hydride with all of the ideal qualities listed is theoretical. And when I call something theoretical, that's me generally placing it quite high up the chain of plausibility.

Also, I'm assuming that the aforementioned LHOCs aren't burning the organic compounds themselves, and just using them to store hydrogen? Otherwise, that would rather defeat the point.

Better match your semantics then, Vistora. I cannot see hidden meanings so I read things sometimes literally. As per LOHC or any hydrogen storage medium at all, the aim would probably store and release hydrogen at later date, not to combust the storage medium. You don't set a tank (arguably aka storage medium) of petrol on fire on reason to provide power do you? Hydrogen is inconveniently non-dense and putting it in pressurized tanks is badplan and so LOHC and its kin are suggested to replace this highly-pressurized tank and thus potentially solving some storage issue for Quattore. The rest is probably engineering issue to ensure the hydrogen doesn't leak from the storage on their route to the engine.

[Vistora]

By theoretical, I didn't mean hydrogen-carrying hydrides themselves were theoretical, I meant that a liquid hydride with all of the ideal qualities listed is theoretical. And when I call something theoretical, that's me generally placing it quite high up the chain of plausibility.

Also, I'm assuming that the aforementioned LHOCs aren't burning the organic compounds themselves, and just using them to store hydrogen? Otherwise, that would rather defeat the point.

Better match your semantics then, Vistora. I cannot see hidden meanings so I read things sometimes literally. As per LOHC or any hydrogen storage medium at all, the aim would probably store and release hydrogen at later date, not to combust the storage medium. You don't set a tank (arguably aka storage medium) of petrol on fire on reason to provide power do you? Hydrogen is inconveniently non-dense and putting it in pressurized tanks is badplan and so LOHC and its kin are suggested to replace this highly-pressurized tank and thus potentially solving some storage issue for Quattore. The rest is probably engineering issue to ensure the hydrogen doesn't leak from the storage on their route to the engine.

Of course. I presumed as much, but was merely clarifying. And yes, I am aware of the appeal of LOHCs and liquid hydrides as alternative methods for hydrogen storage to pressurization and/or cryogenic liquefaction, which was evident in my first post on the matter.