NationStates Post-Modern Tech Community Thread

[A m e n r i a]

While I am no technical expert on this subject, I can state with certainty that there are things that qualify strictly as FT (e.g. interstellar and FTL travel, wormhole technology, deep space colonization, transference of consciousness between bodies, time travel, seemingly indestructible materials, some varieties of man-portable directed-energy weaponry, etc.) Artificial general intelligence, wireless power transmission, weather control, certain categories of high-performance materials, vehicle levitation technology, widespread use of thorium power, orbital kinetic bombardment systems featuring large payloads, lunar colonization, widespread railgun use, and technologies of comparable advancement typically qualify as PMT. I realize this is a lackluster answer, but I hope it is sufficiently useful to serve as a starting point.

It was at least a decent starting point for additional questions. Thank you.

Part of this is me also trying to figure out where my weird-ass nation actually falls other than the obvious FanT elements; as I see it FanT doesn't so much describe the technology as it does a facet of the setting, there's still a separate technology level, regardless of if that technology is magitech or not. Having nations that are difficult to figure out the TL of are becoming something of a normal occurrence for me. (Another one is nigh impossible to figure out the TL of as they've scavenged from ancient civilizations of various different TLs, but can't make the stuff themselves, so depending on how someone viewed it, they could be anything from PT to potentially FFT.) That said, if anyone else wishes to discuss this beyond what I've presented, that's great. I hope my questions can help other people too.

If a nation did possess one or more the technologies you do describe as strictly FT, but possessed few to none of the other usual trappings of FT (e.g. any space program at all, let alone interstellar travel or space colonies) and only possessed those particular FT technologies with none of the other, and in fact still used many lower tech options that are comparatively MT (e.g. mass producing the FN FAL rifle for its allies, a real life weapon that was considered new back in '53, and this is not a case of a purposefully anachronistic nation like steampunk, dieselpunk, or atompunk nations), would this modify where you'd say their TL is by any chance, or does possessing any of the above listed "FT technologies" automatically disqualify the nation in question from being anything but FT no matter what other circumstances are?

Again, just trying to get a grasp of things here. I may have been here a while (this site, not this thread, though with various nations) but TLs are still kind of weird sometimes, even if the are very helpful.

Demons aren't FanT tho, they exist irl.

[Hobbeebia]

There is inherently a blurred line between FT and PMT and to address that blurred li e the community some 11 years ago came up with the obscure NFT (Near Future Tech).

Instead of certain technologies being used as the divider line its relies on Tech proliferation.

For example, The UNSC would be considered NFT as it has FLT, but its wonky and dangerous to use and generally the technology is used primarily in warships and large scale shipping and the use of Cryo to travel is still wide spread and the marines are still like modern marines just with a few new toys.

[UniversalCommons]

No matter how dangerous FTL is still faster than light. Plus a professional soldier will generally beat a civilian even if they are better armed in many situations. A marine with deer rifle will very likely beat a civilian with a laser rifle in a forest.

Quite often PMT technology beats FT because people understand how to use it and have taken the time to design the equipment. A lot of FT is handwavium.

[The Hell Legions]

Demons aren't FanT tho, they exist irl.

Regardless of your personal religious beliefs, they'd still be FanT; whether you believe they exist or not, putting them in a setting that isn't FanT feels weird in terms of genre.

Not to mention that our portrayal of demons, though inspired by RL religious and mythological sources, ultimately intentionally subverts a lot of that. Additionally, we don't just have demons here. How about giants? Will you say they aren't FanT? What about elves? Fairies? Ghosts? Dragons? Zombies? Are those also "not FanT"? We're a FanT nation, and I'm just trying to figure out whether the tech we're using counts as PMT or FT, and hoping that this discussion helps other people who might be in a similar situation, as I feel the line between the two is too blurry.

There is inherently a blurred line between FT and PMT and to address that blurred li e the community some 11 years ago came up with the obscure NFT (Near Future Tech).

Instead of certain technologies being used as the divider line its relies on Tech proliferation.

For example, The UNSC would be considered NFT as it has FLT, but its wonky and dangerous to use and generally the technology is used primarily in warships and large scale shipping and the use of Cryo to travel is still wide spread and the marines are still like modern marines just with a few new toys.

Having more categories can be useful, but only if each category is well defined. And the issue is that the difference between FT and PMT isn't well defined, IMO, which is why I'm asking a lot of this... and getting different answers.

In our particular case, we have magitek allowing for travel across different universes, essentially using portals (though I actually have looked up the science behind trying to do this; in particular it's Einstein-Rosen bridges) which certainly approaches FT probably, and the tech has been made to be fairly safe to use, but we don't have a space program, the tech to do this is still expensive, if not dangerous to use, and the transports aren't really "large scale". The biggest thing we can send through one of these things is a missile armed with a nuclear warhead. (Which is important, otherwise our nuclear program would be entirely pointless - we aren't worried about aggressors from our own universe, but other universes.) We can send vehicles through just fine, but none of them are "mothership-sized", and we're not putting anything in orbit.

As for our soldiers... well, there's "power armor", but it isn't really "armored" (not to mention the actual tech of the power armor mostly resembles what exists IRL right now for that)... armor in our setting is near worthless due to how effective weapons technology and munitions have gotten. When nearly any firearm can propel a depleted uranium round (which exist IRL today) through the target, and even tanks have trouble stopping it, no personal body armor will really help. And the particular weapons fielded cheaply in our setting (by both ourselves and our enemies) have made AFVs useless, and made tanks take on the role of assault guns that go behind the infantry, and basically rendered airplanes in a military sense useless for anything but long-range missions. And none of that is from anything that'd generally be thought of as FT, just the specific scale and way that we're using current MT and some PMT tech, and a few cases of what the non-human species of our setting can do. (E.g. infantry that can fly unassisted.) Okay, there's a few DEWs being thrown around, but all of them are somewhat clunky, and generally more expensive to produce than conventional firearms; they're generally fielded mostly in specialized roles. More dangerous than those are generally things like nanite muntions propelled from a grenade launcher, though these things are really expensive to make (in terms of the amount of time it takes to fabricate them, not resources.) Honestly, the craziest thing isn't actually the military though, but the industrial complex outfitting them; factories that are basically giant 3D printers run by AI, and widespread use of fusion power with an unlimited but unusual FanT fuel supply (in this case, souls. And... that's how our capital punishment system works, but that's another story.) Cybernetics and genetic modification are also in use, but the former can be somewhat clunky, and the latter is dangerous and unpredictable, and not in widespread use by anyone but one nation that specializes in it specifically (and tend to blend a lot of their magic with it.)

No matter how dangerous FTL is still faster than light. Plus a professional soldier will generally beat a civilian even if they are better armed in many situations. A marine with deer rifle will very likely beat a civilian with a laser rifle in a forest.

Quite often PMT technology beats FT because people understand how to use it and have taken the time to design the equipment. A lot of FT is handwavium.

True. The soldier has training, and knows what they are doing. In the right circumstances, PT can defeat FT, as long as the PT has the training and resources. I've championed the idea several times that proper use of tactics and strategy (which are different things) can almost always beat technology. Unconventional armies beat conventional ones 9 times out of 10.

Hmm... how do I put it... overall, I tried to base most of the technology in use by my nation on stuff that exists IRL. It might be way cheaper, it might be better designed overall, it might produced on a scale unthinkable, but for the most part, it's largely RL technologies. Anything going outside the realm of RL stuff is usually the FanT at work, occasionally mixed with technology for better ease of use. Our "alchemists", for example, are just wearing powered exoskeletons (that are mostly on par with RL ones, if a decent bit cheaper to make) strapped with a bunch of heavy magitech that hooks up to the body.

--------

So, yeah, I know the distinction between TLs gets confusing. Gets more confusing, I'd imagine, in scenarios where a nation is using tech it can't actually make, and was acquired somewhere else. Which I know there's some nations out there like that.

[Mutable]

Hi guys. I wrote up a factbook on my cyberpunk nation's obsession with prosthetics and augments in a society that views "evolution" and going beyond the known limits of their body is a standard to aspire to, the redefined perspective of perfectionism.

This factbook details the effect uncheck consumerism and marketing has on an economically oppressed society, the consequences of a culture funneled by manipulative corporations, and the most popular breeds of prosthetics and augments prevalent in this dystopian society.

The first section sets the stage for how Oasis, the corporation with a strong grasp on the city of Sanctum, has redefined societal norms and views on perfectionism. The next section discusses the history behind prosthetics, referring to known history and connecting to the events that shaped Sanctum's current obsession with augmentation to hopefully add a layer of realism, and the third section - which is currently unfinished atm - describes the most popular types of augments civilians use.

How does it look? Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=mut ... id=1287054

[The Macabees]

A new collection of essays on the colonization of Mars. Looks interesting, although the price is a bit steep.

[The Macabees]

Does anybody play a "post-ecological disaster" PMT world? Or, if you don't, how would you? How do you think it would differ from another PMT setting?

[UniversalCommons]

It would be very hot outside. Add 3 degrees to global temperatures. The coastlines would be flooded and turned into malarial swamps. If you were not covered you could get sick from genetically modified insects-- like mosquitos or flies. The weather would be unpredictable, sometimes it would rain and there would be floods, other times, there would be drought conditions. There would be less arable land, with much more desert or scrubland. Many of the crops would be genetically modified to survive desert or dry conditions. Some crops would be grown indoors inside buildings or on roofs. Good quality soil would be a valuable commodity. So would clean water. People would use desalination a lot to get water.

Large amounts of animals would have died out. Some of the scavengers would still be around. The creatures that can survive off most things, cockroaches, ants, raccoons, pigeons, and rats. I would imagine that some of the zoo animals would have escaped. You would find alligators, turtles, goldfish, and other popular pets everywhere. There would be lots of feral dogs, often in packs. Many of the smaller animals that did survive would have better defenses, poison, camouflage, being inedible, etc.

People would move inland as the coasts flooded. There would be some corporate parks with guarded gates for the wealthy. I would imagine that some of these might be like Disneyland with armed guards, or some of the more clean cut suburbs.

The poor would be left outside and often would function as scavengers. Some of them would survive by creating something like a gated trailer park with walls. Some of the more quiet ones would probably be quite safe. Others would be gang infested hellholes.

I like how the writer Paolo Bacigalupi did his young adult series, Tool of War, The Drowned Cities, and Shipbreaker. I think it might make a good setting.

After the collapse when everything died, there would be a resurgence of pestivorous plants like kudzu, ivy, certain grasses and other hardy plants.

I would also imagine that epidemics like SARs or other flu like symptoms would be more common in the heat. I could also imagine that people might use crop disease and diseases to fight each other as the social order collapsed.

In the more mountainous areas and areas farther from civilization, I would imagine the off grid people we see now might join together for mutual protection or to create their own communities that harken back to places like Cascadia, Ecotopia, or similar things. Many would be heavily armed, and not want outsiders around.

These are some ideas.

[Lord Dominator]

Does anybody play a "post-ecological disaster" PMT world? Or, if you don't, how would you? How do you think it would differ from another PMT setting?

Well, the most obvious scenario is a climate change related one. National Geographic helpfully made maps of what the world would look like if all the glaciers and ice sheets melted.

Bit takeaways are the loads of refugees from now flooded areas (either that or they'd be dead) on every continent except Africa (Egypt however...) which would have problems from the greater heat and expanded deserts instead.

In essence, the biggest changes would probably be a massive reduction in global population, and the collapse of most if not all nations currently existing (depends essentially on how fast the ice melts). The arable land of the world would shift massively or change in most cases, from flooding or desert expansion.

[A m e n r i a]

Demons aren't FanT tho, they exist irl.

Regardless of your personal religious beliefs, they'd still be FanT; whether you believe they exist or not, putting them in a setting that isn't FanT feels weird in terms of genre.

Not to mention that our portrayal of demons, though inspired by RL religious and mythological sources, ultimately intentionally subverts a lot of that. Additionally, we don't just have demons here. How about giants? Will you say they aren't FanT? What about elves? Fairies? Ghosts? Dragons? Zombies? Are those also "not FanT"? We're a FanT nation, and I'm just trying to figure out whether the tech we're using counts as PMT or FT, and hoping that this discussion helps other people who might be in a similar situation, as I feel the line between the two is too blurry.

Ghosts are jin and it's not just "personal religious beliefs", it's fact, but that is a discussion better suited for the IDT.

Here's a question though: how plausible are hovering vehicles like hoverbikes and flying skateboards and if you guys have them, how do you justify them?

[UniversalCommons]

Hoverbikes are drones with strong ultracapacitors or batteries. Nanobatteries might do it, so might advanced sugar batteries. A hoverboard is a two piece drone. A hoverbike is a low flying man capacity drone.
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/ho ... ncna935191

[A m e n r i a]

Hoverbikes are drones with strong ultracapacitors or batteries. Nanobatteries might do it, so might advanced sugar batteries. A hoverboard is a two piece drone. A hoverbike is a low flying man capacity drone.
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/ho ... ncna935191

Hold on, sugar batteries?

[The Macabees]

What would be your guys' version of a PMT insurgency?

[UniversalCommons]

I would imagine a future nightmare urban insurgency.

It would probably be an urban insurgency that would mix a lot of hacking with identity falsification because there would be biosensors everywhere. I would imagine the foot soldiers would quite literally appear to be their enemies and have their signatures and identities during their operations.

Weapons would be fabricated from raw materials and printed without identifying marks using using a combination of additive manufacturing and laser cutting. Operations might be focused on getting raw or restricted materials to make weapons or get identities.

There would be blackout zones where surveillance could not reach or out of the way places like off grid or contaminated areas where secret bases might be located. There would probably be a second economy where the rebels would meet to get food and other supplies a huge grey market where people would go to get the necessities where the Orwellian state would fail to reach.

The organization might be both cell and block chain based with coded identities built on secret bulletin boards and meeting places...

[The Macabees]

It would probably be an urban insurgency that would mix a lot of hacking with identity falsification because there would be biosensors everywhere. I would imagine the foot soldiers would quite literally appear to be their enemies and have their signatures and identities during their operations.

This is interesting because the urban guerilla phenomenon is a prediction that David Kilcullen, a major COIN expert, has made (a very interesting book, btw - well worth the read).

And if you look at the 2008 Mumbai attacks, the attackers actually did something very similar to what you describe. They had teams in Pakistan monitoring social media to use the footage that bystanders were using to coordinate their movements and avoid authorities.

So, I think you're right on the money.

[UniversalCommons]

Since nobody has done this yet. How do you get to PMT Post-scarcity mixed with abundance, the Utopian Terran Empire. How close are we to it and how can we set it up as part of a RP? Basically people are free to do what they want, however social pressures convince most people to work, study, or make things. Basic late PMT handwavium. Mainly what technologies or mix of technologies and ideas makes this possible based on hard science, economics, and resources. I would think there would have to be asteroid mining. Any thoughts.

[Post War America]

Since nobody has done this yet. How do you get to PMT Post-scarcity mixed with abundance, the Utopian Terran Empire. How close are we to it and how can we set it up as part of a RP? Basically people are free to do what they want, however social pressures convince most people to work, study, or make things. Basic late PMT handwavium. Mainly what technologies or mix of technologies and ideas makes this possible based on hard science, economics, and resources. I would think there would have to be asteroid mining. Any thoughts.

3d Printing, Asteroid Mining, and the real kicker would be some way to more efficiently harvest energy. Presumably much more efficient power storage and widespread usage of solar panels.

[Kylarnatia]

Since nobody has done this yet. How do you get to PMT Post-scarcity mixed with abundance, the Utopian Terran Empire. How close are we to it and how can we set it up as part of a RP? Basically people are free to do what they want, however social pressures convince most people to work, study, or make things. Basic late PMT handwavium. Mainly what technologies or mix of technologies and ideas makes this possible based on hard science, economics, and resources. I would think there would have to be asteroid mining. Any thoughts.

3d Printing, Asteroid Mining, and the real kicker would be some way to more efficiently harvest energy. Presumably much more efficient power storage and widespread usage of solar panels.

I'm no expert in either science or energy technology, but I've always been quite enamoured with the idea of Thorium reactors, and actively use them as part of my PMT setting.

Asteroid mining is definitely another possible PMT venture to expand and enrich the economy, and with that advancement in space-faring, I think it's fair to assume there would have been quite some advancement in both VI and AI technologies, leading to quite a fair bit of automation in a variety of industries, which may go some way to justify the "free lifestyle" UC is looking for while also touching upon the "social pressure to work, study, create" which could form part of the narrative theme of your nation.

You might also want to look at Arcologies as some form of inspiration for a basic approach to handling the pressures of sustaining a large population.

As I said, by no means an expert in any of these areas - I'm sure there are others who could provide more "hard data" for these things if prompted - but these are the sorts of things I've drawn on for inspiration in the past when worldbuilding. Hope they prove useful.

[Post War America]

3d Printing, Asteroid Mining, and the real kicker would be some way to more efficiently harvest energy. Presumably much more efficient power storage and widespread usage of solar panels.

I'm no expert in either science or energy technology, but I've always been quite enamoured with the idea of Thorium reactors, and actively use them as part of my PMT setting.

Asteroid mining is definitely another possible PMT venture to expand and enrich the economy, and with that advancement in space-faring, I think it's fair to assume there would have been quite some advancement in both VI and AI technologies, leading to quite a fair bit of automation in a variety of industries, which may go some way to justify the "free lifestyle" UC is looking for while also touching upon the "social pressure to work, study, create" which could form part of the narrative theme of your nation.

You might also want to look at Arcologies as some form of inspiration for a basic approach to handling the pressures of sustaining a large population.

As I said, by no means an expert in any of these areas - I'm sure there are others who could provide more "hard data" for these things if prompted - but these are the sorts of things I've drawn on for inspiration in the past when worldbuilding. Hope they prove useful.

Those would certainly work. As in they'd solve the main challenges of creating a non-scarcity economy. Namely:

-Raw Materials
-Energy
-Manufacturing Capacity

[UniversalCommons]

Arcologies as an idea are interesting, but don't appear to be workable. Arcosanti is a very interesting example of this. There is a little bit too much utopianism in this.

I would imagine that there would have to be a much tighter, more circular economy, where everything was designed to be recycled. The concept is called Cradle to Cradle design. There would be virtually no waste as everything down to the molecular level would be a potentially recyclable compound. With advanced enough additive manufacturing, all kinds of materials could be used cellulose, plastic, metal, etc.

There would be a lot more local produce with bioshelter organic farming, urban farms, and vertical farms. I am not sure these will be skyscraper farms. I would imagine them more like big box stores with three or four stories, solar and wind on the roofs, loading bays for automated trucks. Many supermarkets would grow some of their own produce and possibly sea food, or chickens. There are some places in Japan where you can buy produce fresh from roof farms.

Again as we colonized space, the greenhouse technology of closed farms would be brought back to earth allowing for much more efficient greenhouses. It would be like how solar power came out of the space program. Something to remember about closed systems, is that the produce is organic, it comes from a closed system.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/lunar-mart ... e-on-earth

There would be much closer monitoring of cleaning agents and chemicals. This might come from space as well. There can be no loose chemicals, or poisons in a tightly confined space. People will have a much greater interest in tight environmental controls inside a space colony. There can be little or no waste in a space colony. Everything is recycled, excrement, food waste, animal and plant leftovers.

There would still be large farms, but the value of land around urban centers would increase.

Also, I would imagine that the rep rap printer would have advanced to the point where if you have the raw materials you can build a 3D printer, then use that printer to make more printers. 3D printers would advance considerably with the early moon colonies, printing 3D habitats and tools on the moon. The structures would have to be much more materially efficient and air tight than earth bound houses. I think what was made on the moon with printed habitats for the moon and mars would come back to earth with more efficient manufacturing and construction techniques. These designs would be elegant, energy efficient, and designed to be constructed quickly. There would be domes, cylinders, and other shapes often made of ceramic or clays.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/24/picture ... -mars.html

I would imagine there would be an initial start with nuclear thermal rockets using low grade fuels allowing for early asteroid mining. This would greatly increase the availability of rare earth metals driving the prices down and allowing for new applications in computing and energy technology. Eventually, I imagine, there would be Helium 3 mining on the moon.
https://spacenews.com/momentum-grows-fo ... ropulsion/

I would also think that there would be far more energy efficient buildings. I would imagine new construction would be net zero for houses and housing complexes with built in solar, wind, and geothermal connected to a smart grid with nuclear and biomass adding to the mix. Many industrial complexes would be built to be energy plus, have wind, solar, and biomass as well as other technology to add in new construction.

There would be a complete switch to battery technology with a focus on sugar batteries, nanobatteries, or some other advanced battery or ultracapacitor technology. This would include electric jets based on superconducting technology. Cars and motorcycles would be all electric. They would have built in telematics for managing wear and tear and energy usage as well as AI for self driving.

I threw in a few articles for effect.

[Crimetopolis]

How feasible would 4wheeler-mounted cavalry? be Would they be an effective counter measure against horse dwellers? Glad for any input

[UniversalCommons]

I would imagine it would be interesting to do a ball wheel fast ATV. https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a ... cal-tires/
I would imagine, you could create an omnidirectional fast platform for four wheel drive vehicles. Both ATVs and cars. It would allow vechicle to be extremely maneuverable. Something which would be both faster and more maneuverable than a horse.

[Allanea]

How feasible would 4wheeler-mounted cavalry? be Would they be an effective counter measure against horse dwellers? Glad for any input

I'm not clear about the question.

Is the idea that the 4-wheeler (ATV) cavalry is going to fight off ATV-back ? (A bit like horse cavalry, but not with horses)? If yes, then it's a bit of a difficult idea. ATVs require even more attention to steer than horses (for the obvious reasons that they are not animals and don't keep balance on their own, and also move far faster).

If they are going to dismount and fight like dragoons (which were a type of cavalry that only used their horses for operational mobility, but were not meant to fight off the horses in combat), then they can do reasonably well (although it's not clear why this is happening, why are they not just using cars or trucks or whatnot?)

[Allanea]

There would be much closer monitoring of cleaning agents and chemicals. This might come from space as well. There can be no loose chemicals, or poisons in a tightly confined space. People will have a much greater interest in tight environmental controls inside a space colony. There can be little or no waste in a space colony. Everything is recycled, excrement, food waste, animal and plant leftovers.

Why is any of this happening?

That's to say, 'space colonies' today (the only thing close to an example is ISS or MIR) are not self-enclosed, of course (the astronauts' body waste is ejected into space).

In the future there's no reason for them to be, at least if we are assuming that the prices of space transport (in terms of dollars per unit of weight transported) are going to decrease sufficiently to allow space colonization.

The ethical grounds against pollution can be of two kinds:

1. Pollution is bad because it reduces the well-being of other humans.
2. Pollution is bad because other life forms (animals, and perhaps even plants) have an intrinsic right to not being choked by pesticide and whatnot, and we should respect their ethical claims even though they are not sufficiently capable of making them themselves (I don't agree with this worldview, but I accept, in arguendo that some do).

Neither of these viewpoints apply in an environment where broadly speaknig ther'es no life. The surface of, say, the moon, can not be meaningfully argued to have its own ethical claim.

From an economic standpoint, the Solar System holds more raw materials than humanity can ever meaningfully exploit within the observable future. If we assume that in some near future there will be a decline in transportation prices that would allow us to move tens of thousands of tons of metal and other materials across the Solar System, there's no reason to imagine economizing on the use of these things.

On Earth, one can argue that humanity has some kind of "bearing capacity" that can be feasibly exhausted. (Perhaps not directly through literally consuming all the materials available, but perhaps through causing some kind of environmental disaster in the future).

But in an environment where every one of the major elements is available and can be used in manufacturing, and where transportation costs are low, it seems unnecessary to be frugal.

That's to say, being frugal can be considered a virtue if you have a religion that calls for it, or if you believe that resources are highly restricted and by claiming one you're taking away from another who has a moral claim on the resource. If we can reroute asteroids with tens of thousands of tons of carbon in them, and then use the carbon to make food using the cheap (in your words) energy of the Sun, why should I not have a triple-deck SolarBurger?

Equally , why bother having organic farming in an enclosed environment? Organic food isn't better for one's health in any way. Outdoors, an environmentalist argument can be made I suppose (Depending on whether you care more about pesticides or about land use efficiency), but in an enclosed environment, you can use whatever chemicals you like as long as they don't get into the natural environment we want to preserve and as long as they don't harm anyone's health.

[UniversalCommons]

Because organic material is expensive in space. In a closed environment, you can only carry so much organic material, food, water, etc. which takes up weight. In order to reduce the weight of organics, you recycle water, food, air, etc. thus reducing the amount of organics which you need to carry as well as the water weight and the weight of air. If you did not recycle, you would need a greater weight of air, water, and food material. The ideal situation is where you do not need to add extra weight because you have a closed loop environment system and do not need to take on any additional food or water. You also want to reduce contaminants inside. For example, you want to use stainless steel instead of plastics which does not off gas. Also activities like smoking inside your closed environment for example, because you have to add extra weight to remove the pollutants, the cigarette smoke. Every time, you have to throw away material, you are adding weight that needs to be replaced. It is an internal issue. Less weight means less fuel use. It also means greater efficiency inside your settlement.

Also, in a closed environment, you don't need to worry about whether your food is organic or not. It is closed, there are no pests, no need for pesticides. Again it is about creating an internal environment that uses minimal resources for maximum results. Things like aeroponics make sense in this kind of environment.

The replacement cost of sending material to Mars because of weight for example is very high. The ideal situation is where you don't have to resupply, you have more than enough because all of the food, water, and air are reused and remain clean. It is much better if this kind of system does not get contaminated. If you can build a proper system like this for five people for example, they could stay indefintely without resupply from earth. It might be designed for seven people, but can run indefinitely with five people.

https://siberiantimes.com/science/cases ... n-or-mars/

This is not about polluting the external environment, but creating an internal environment which does not need resupply from outside sources. For a generation starship for example, everything would be recycled. There are no guarantees that when you reach your destination, it will have what you need. You might have to make several trips. Or in some cases, you might drop off only a portion of your colonists before you go to the next location.

Weight is quite literally life support and money.

Weight is also fuel. This is why laser sails which push a ship the distance to Mars for example, reduce weight, the amount which needs to be carried is reduced. It is also why things like solar power are in some ways ideal, they generate energy from an external source and reduce the weight requirements to run your ship to Mars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlle ... ort_system

More recently, the Chinese CELSS experiment is much more efficient.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00575/full

Having something which can take care of the water inside your house, your energy use, and make it easier to grow clean food inside a container like a shipping container is even more valuable on earth because you have an environment that is easy to pollute.

Once you get where you are going with your closed loop life support system, you might send out robots that would build solar panels in automated fashion, mine the earth, then extrude it into domes and other airtight forms, then replicate your life support system, essentially growing many of the components in your life support system. If it is new, you might want to be able to make as much of it as possible using local resources. The outside resources would be the tools to make the things, not so much the materials themselves. There might be some things like helium 3, or uranium that might be used for the initial buildout.

You send your ship which recycles all the internals. Land it, it uses robots to build several domes, solar panels, maybe you also add a few small fission or fusion reactors. Inside the dome, you take the components from inside the ship that are part of the bioregenerative life support system and grow a new one. You send your colonists to a prepared location. There is less to carry on the way there because a lot of it is already built.

Part of this is about resource efficiency. Very advanced systems tend to leave less waste. Also, things like sleeper ships are fantasies. It is a steady march to full bioregeneration.

A lot of environmentalism is not about pollution, it is about reduction of resource use. Lean manufacturing which uses less manufactured materials in making things is considered an environmental technology. An example of this would be finding ways to eliminate plastic from packaging, and reducing the amount of paper in packaging as well. The reduction in resource use also relates to energy. LED bulbs use less energy and last longer than standard light bulbs.

Design is another factor in environmentalism. The concept of cradle to cradle is designing things so they can be fixed, repaired, and all the parts can be reused. The ideal is to have nothing that cannot be reused or fixed creating a zero waste environment with high efficiency in material and energy use. It is a different approach than consumerism. Because of extreme efficiency, it can reduce costs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle-to-cradle_design

An example of a cradle to cradle facility might be an electric car garage where people can lease or call the garage, have the car delivered. All of the repairs are done internally and at a certain point, in the life of the car, it is designed to be dismantled and reused directly from the garage. I could imaging a space facility where your asteroid mining bot gets recycled and dismantled after a certain period of use, so it can be used to make a new asteroid mining bot. The whole process is planned from beginning to end.

Another example of this while it is not directly environmentalism is landing on Mars where there is water ice which can be used to make rocket fuel and oxygen. This reduces the amount of fuel and oxygen which need to be carried. https://www.space.com/mars-water-ice-map.html