Ardokian RP Planning Tread [OOC | Semi-Open | PT/MT/PMT?]

[Ardoki]

I know first-hand of what the SACTO does to LGBTQ+ people.

If they invade, the people would not support it. It would be like neo-nazis invading Israel - Why would the Israelis welcome the neo-nazis?

I'm not denying that SACTO has a bad record in that respect, but the rest of us (certainly the majority) don't partake in such actions. If you want to avoid the worst prejudice, just OOCly consult them and reach a solution on how much to tolerate. As a country (and a person) who takes human rights very seriously, especially gay rights, being profiled as an ignorant and oppressive conservative state simply because we don't worship your brand of communism is more than untrue, it's offensive. You're making us all pay for perceived crimes that, if they happened at all by the one or two nations who condone them, would be strongly condemned by almost all parties.

I obviously don't think your, or other countries, adhere to such beliefs.

However if such countries are threatening the people's way of life are involved, they would not support any invasion.

Well I admit, that my nation does limit LGBT rights since my nation opposes them, and neither I will deny that I am far more harsh in methods I use in combat that states from the IFC.

However nowhere did Nihon experiment on Christians. Nor did Nihon ban homosexuality - unlike Ardoki which banned both hetero and homosexuality.

That OOC statement was a joke, and I cleared that up a few posts later (this was on the UL thread a few months back).

It is literally impossible to prohibit heterosexuality and homosexuality in our country - By extension that would also prohibit bisexuality.

[Novo Wagondia]

I had several chances to observe what Ardoki does to Christians.

Again who is telling anything here about invasion? Only goal of SACTO intervention is to keep Ardokian forces out of the Islands, not to stay on them.

Before I say my opinion, I would like to hear what others say.

It depends really.

If Ardoki decides to go ahead with his plans to try and sink the Redoubtable, I have only this to say to him.

Though, I'd prefer we kept things going the way they so I don't have to retcon all my actions.

What's happening right now? The last I heard there was the crisis with Quirinia, which I hope has been retconned.

[New Carloso]

It depends really.

If Ardoki decides to go ahead with his plans to try and sink the Redoubtable, I have only this to say to him.

Though, I'd prefer we kept things going the way they so I don't have to retcon all my actions.

What's happening right now? The last I heard there was the crisis with Quirinia, which I hope has been retconned.

Well, I basically severed all the commercial undersea cables connecting Ardoki and Thuas without them knowing and then deployed mines. Apparently Ardoki has plans to sink the ship that transported by delegate to and from the summit while it is heading home. This is of course the battleship Reboubtable.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Carloso how the hell did you get within 200km of him so fast with no resistence?

WTH man?

I'm not sure if you read my post correctly but I said clearly they are submarines and very quiet and stealthy ones at that that were for most of the time cruis'n through the thermocline being undetectable and shiz.

Okay, fair enough. I thought saw some mess about a surface ship of some sort.
My bad.

EDIT: And it isn't even within 200 km of Ardoki, its 200 km south of Thuas.

Ardoki still has control of the territory of somewhere between 2000-3000km of ocean space.
That's still at least 800km+ from which he could engage and destroy surface vessels...

Which is why I am planning on some hefty deception procedures...

[Novo Wagondia]

What's happening right now? The last I heard there was the crisis with Quirinia, which I hope has been retconned.

Well, I basically severed all the commercial undersea cables connecting Ardoki and Thuas without them knowing and then deployed mines. Apparently Ardoki has plans to sink the ship that transported by delegate to and from the summit while it is heading home. This is of course the battleship Reboubtable.

Awesome, I like where it's going with that. If we could retcon the whole Quirinia mess, restore the original plans for the archipelago (Basically the relationship between Taiwan and China, without any unfair spy-presidents and anti-invasion uprisings. We're supposed to be on their side; all the anti-IFC/SACTO propaganda in the world can be directed elsewhere, we only ask that this one place be on our side. After all, the Ardokians did invade.

I also like the idea that Ardoki is willing to give up the islands after a long conflict, because that leaves it open for a second invasion or some diplomatic/military crises in the future. And to make sure we keep the loyalty of the people in the archipelago, we can agree to limit genocidal practices (as long as Cuscy still gets a chance to guerrilla the hell out of the Ardokian military). Any violations of international law will be condemned by the moderate invaders, so there won't be any reason for the population to spontaneously switch allegiances.

[Ardoki]

Well, I basically severed all the commercial undersea cables connecting Ardoki and Thuas without them knowing and then deployed mines. Apparently Ardoki has plans to sink the ship that transported by delegate to and from the summit while it is heading home. This is of course the battleship Reboubtable.

Awesome, I like where it's going with that. If we could retcon the whole Quirinia mess, restore the original plans for the archipelago (Basically the relationship between Taiwan and China, without any unfair spy-presidents and anti-invasion uprisings. We're supposed to be on their side; all the anti-IFC/SACTO propaganda in the world can be directed elsewhere, we only ask that this one place be on our side. After all, the Ardokians did invade.

I also like the idea that Ardoki is willing to give up the islands after a long conflict, because that leaves it open for a second invasion or some diplomatic/military crises in the future. And to make sure we keep the loyalty of the people in the archipelago, we can agree to limit genocidal practices (as long as Cuscy still gets a chance to guerrilla the hell out of the Ardokian military). Any violations of international law will be condemned by the moderate invaders, so there won't be any reason for the population to spontaneously switch allegiances.

If it will be based on Taiwan and China. A thousand kilometres is too great a distance between the countries.
Others don't like that.

We should let the others decide first. Plus make sure there is a set plot outline we all agree upon beforehand, so as to stop future hijacks and so everyone knows what will be happening.

[Novo Wagondia]

Awesome, I like where it's going with that. If we could retcon the whole Quirinia mess, restore the original plans for the archipelago (Basically the relationship between Taiwan and China, without any unfair spy-presidents and anti-invasion uprisings. We're supposed to be on their side; all the anti-IFC/SACTO propaganda in the world can be directed elsewhere, we only ask that this one place be on our side. After all, the Ardokians did invade.

I also like the idea that Ardoki is willing to give up the islands after a long conflict, because that leaves it open for a second invasion or some diplomatic/military crises in the future. And to make sure we keep the loyalty of the people in the archipelago, we can agree to limit genocidal practices (as long as Cuscy still gets a chance to guerrilla the hell out of the Ardokian military). Any violations of international law will be condemned by the moderate invaders, so there won't be any reason for the population to spontaneously switch allegiances.

If it will be based on Taiwan and China. A thousand kilometres is too great a distance between the countries.
Others don't like that.

We should let the others decide first. Plus make sure there is a set plot outline we all agree upon beforehand, so as to stop future hijacks and so everyone knows what will be happening.

I agree. And awaiting input from others, would you be comfortable for a compromise at 500 km? That's halfway between what we're suggesting (800 km) and you're suggesting (200 km). You've already agreed to it:

Fine.

500 kilometres.

That should be a compromise. However we'll decide on the other details later.

[Ardoki]

If it will be based on Taiwan and China. A thousand kilometres is too great a distance between the countries.
Others don't like that.

We should let the others decide first. Plus make sure there is a set plot outline we all agree upon beforehand, so as to stop future hijacks and so everyone knows what will be happening.

I agree. And awaiting input from others, would you be comfortable for a compromise at 500 km? That's halfway between what we're suggesting (800 km) and you're suggesting (200 km). You've already agreed to it:

Fine.

500 kilometres.

That should be a compromise. However we'll decide on the other details later.

A Taiwan-China like scenario, would imply that the archipelago is under just as much threat as Taiwan is.

However I'd like to keep this to just an insurgency, at least until my exams are finished.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Awesome, I like where it's going with that. If we could retcon the whole Quirinia mess, restore the original plans for the archipelago (Basically the relationship between Taiwan and China, without any unfair spy-presidents and anti-invasion uprisings. We're supposed to be on their side; all the anti-IFC/SACTO propaganda in the world can be directed elsewhere, we only ask that this one place be on our side. After all, the Ardokians did invade.

I also like the idea that Ardoki is willing to give up the islands after a long conflict, because that leaves it open for a second invasion or some diplomatic/military crises in the future. And to make sure we keep the loyalty of the people in the archipelago, we can agree to limit genocidal practices (as long as Cuscy still gets a chance to guerrilla the hell out of the Ardokian military). Any violations of international law will be condemned by the moderate invaders, so there won't be any reason for the population to spontaneously switch allegiances.

If it will be based on Taiwan and China. A thousand kilometres is too great a distance between the countries.

How? How? Explain yourself.
I have explained multiple times how anything short of 800km is basically right under your nose from a military perspective.

Please, explain how that much of a distance would make even the slightest difference in terms of population and politics?

We should let the others decide first. Plus make sure there is a set plot outline we all agree upon beforehand, so as to stop future hijacks and so everyone knows what will be happening.

For the second time, Qui wasn't actually saying your president was a spy IC, he was BLUFFING, his character was making stuff up in order to get a reaction from your character (which he got, and then some...)

[Novo Wagondia]

I agree. And awaiting input from others, would you be comfortable for a compromise at 500 km? That's halfway between what we're suggesting (800 km) and you're suggesting (200 km). You've already agreed to it:

A Taiwan-China like scenario, would imply that the archipelago is under just as much threat as Taiwan is.

However I'd like to keep this to just an insurgency, at least until my exams are finished.

I meant Taiwan-China in terms of political relationship and history (refuge for dissidents), not exact geographical proximity. I don't see why a compromise at 500 is too much for either side to bear.

And because it is a serious OOC concern, I would personally be fine with that. I don't know what others will say, but I'm fine restricting involvement to the Redoubtable incident, some diplomatic escalation afterwards, and funding of insurgent groups. Ground contributions can come when you're ready.

[Ardoki]

If it will be based on Taiwan and China. A thousand kilometres is too great a distance between the countries.

How? How? Explain yourself.
I have explained multiple times how anything short of 800km is basically right under your nose from a military perspective.

Please, explain how that much of a distance would make even the slightest difference in terms of population and politics?

We should let the others decide first. Plus make sure there is a set plot outline we all agree upon beforehand, so as to stop future hijacks and so everyone knows what will be happening.

For the second time, Qui wasn't actually saying your president was a spy IC, he was BLUFFING, his character was making stuff up in order to get a reaction from your character (which he got, and then some...)

Part in bold, I acknowledge that you don't like that. So I'm kind of ruling it out.

Awesome, I like where it's going with that. If we could retcon the whole Quirinia mess, restore the original plans for the archipelago (Basically the relationship between Taiwan and China, without any unfair spy-presidents and anti-invasion uprisings. We're supposed to be on their side; all the anti-IFC/SACTO propaganda in the world can be directed elsewhere, we only ask that this one place be on our side. After all, the Ardokians did invade.

I also like the idea that Ardoki is willing to give up the islands after a long conflict, because that leaves it open for a second invasion or some diplomatic/military crises in the future. And to make sure we keep the loyalty of the people in the archipelago, we can agree to limit genocidal practices (as long as Cuscy still gets a chance to guerrilla the hell out of the Ardokian military). Any violations of international law will be condemned by the moderate invaders, so there won't be any reason for the population to spontaneously switch allegiances.

If it will be based on Taiwan and China. A thousand kilometres is too great a distance between the countries.
Others don't like that.

We should let the others decide first. Plus make sure there is a set plot outline we all agree upon beforehand, so as to stop future hijacks and so everyone knows what will be happening.

Quirinia, in his posts, claims those things in plain text (not in speech or thoughts) - Why implies that it is an objective fact. Him also releasing the fraudulent documents, would also ruin President Sloane, if I didn't make him a spy I don't know what would have happened.

[New Aeyariss]

The issue of kilometers was because of range of Ardokian ground - based aircraft, cruise missiles, etc.

If it was closer we would have to strike Ardokian mainland, which Ardoki does not want to.

@Ardoki and?


Propaganda is integral part of warfare. Numerous nations spread lies to pursue their goals ( false flags like Burning of Reichstag, Gliwice Provocation, Mukden incident, etc).

[Novo Wagondia]

I thought we were ignoring everything that had happened with Quirinia...

Which would include the whole spy controversy that went against our original plans and just created an unnecessary problem for all of us.

[Ardoki]

The issue of kilometers was because of range of Ardokian ground - based aircraft, cruise missiles, etc.

If it was closer we would have to strike Ardokian mainland, which Ardoki does not want to.

@Ardoki and?


Propaganda is integral part of warfare. Numerous nations spread lies to pursue their goals ( false flags like Burning of Reichstag, Gliwice Provocation, Mukden incident, etc).

Yes, I know.

It would have ruined the political career of Sloane, the major pro-independence leader. The government would fall apart, the pro-independence movement would have its reputation tarnished. Or they would see through the lies of the propaganda, and see the SACTO and the IFC as liars who are trying to attack their ally (Sloane) for some reason.
I just don't understand what he was trying to do. It was counter-intuitive.

[Inyourfaceistan]

A Taiwan-China like scenario, would imply that the archipelago is under just as much threat as Taiwan is.

However I'd like to keep this to just an insurgency, at least until my exams are finished.

I meant Taiwan-China in terms of political relationship and history (refuge for dissidents), not exact geographical proximity. I don't see why a compromise at 500 is too much for either side to bear.

500km is within the combat radius of almost all aircraft.
1000km is only within the combat radius of a few interceptors and modern fighters. In addition his base of resupply is right there and he claims to have OTH which can track targets at 3000km; It's still an advantage for Ardoki hands down, but a series of advantages which offset the numerical advantage pitted against him.

A fair range would be like 2000 or 3000km away, that way both sides are relying purely on naval assets, except Ardokian combat aircraft with external drop tanks.
But we already agreed on 1000km away...

And because it is a serious OOC concern, I would personally be fine with that. I don't know what others will say, but I'm fine restricting involvement to the Redoubtable incident, some diplomatic escalation afterwards, and funding of insurgent groups. Ground contributions can come when you're ready.

As far as OOC is concerned I can hold off until he is good to fight, but IC Inyursta will launch their attack during/right after the peace talks.

[New Aeyariss]

Yes, I know.

It would have ruined the political career of Sloane, the major pro-independence leader. The government would fall apart, the pro-independence movement would have its reputation tarnished. Or they would see through the lies of the propaganda, and see the SACTO and the IFC as liars who are trying to attack their ally (Sloane) for some reason.
I just don't understand what he was trying to do. It was counter-intuitive.

Or, if people believed that Ardokians have been infiltrating the government, government would fall and somebody with more... drastic program of expulsion of Ardokian invasion from the islands would have taken power.

And the fun would begin .

[Inyourfaceistan]

The issue of kilometers was because of range of Ardokian ground - based aircraft, cruise missiles, etc.

If it was closer we would have to strike Ardokian mainland, which Ardoki does not want to.

@Ardoki and?


Propaganda is integral part of warfare. Numerous nations spread lies to pursue their goals ( false flags like Burning of Reichstag, Gliwice Provocation, Mukden incident, etc).

Yes, I know.
I just don't understand what he was trying to do. It was counter-intuitive.

Sloane was clearly a weak leader and an Ardokian puppet, whether Qui's character made up statistics or not.

By making stuff up he either forces Sloane to prove his credentials and quit bowing down to Ardoki; or it ruins Sloane's career and gives room for a real patriot and anti-Ardokian to step up and take his place.

[Ardoki]

Yes, I know.

It would have ruined the political career of Sloane, the major pro-independence leader. The government would fall apart, the pro-independence movement would have its reputation tarnished. Or they would see through the lies of the propaganda, and see the SACTO and the IFC as liars who are trying to attack their ally (Sloane) for some reason.
I just don't understand what he was trying to do. It was counter-intuitive.

Or, if people believed that Ardokians have been infiltrating the government, government would fall and somebody with more... drastic program of expulsion of Ardokian invasion from the islands would have taken power.

And the fun would begin .

The people would most likely not believe the propaganda, as all it al it was was wild and almost unbelievable accusations with no evidence to back them up. The government and people would then have negative views of the SACTO and the IFC.

[New Aeyariss]

Technically more concern was replacing of Solane, who was clearly supporting appeasing Ardoki, with a man who would support driving Ardoki of the island. In short, replacement of dove by a warhawk.

[Ardoki]

Yes, I know.
I just don't understand what he was trying to do. It was counter-intuitive.

Sloane was clearly a weak leader and an Ardokian puppet, whether Qui's character made up statistics or not.

By making stuff up he either forces Sloane to prove his credentials and quit bowing down to Ardoki; or it ruins Sloane's career and gives room for a real patriot and anti-Ardokian to step up and take his place.

Sloane was the most anti-UASR (he wasn't anti-Ardokian as he was an Ardokian himself) politician. He was the most anti-UASR they got, before calling for war (which would be economic and literal suicide).

[Inyourfaceistan]

Quirina, in his posts, claims those things in plain text (not in speech or thoughts) - Why implies that it is an objective fact. Him also releasing the fraudulent documents, would also ruin President Sloane, if I didn't make him a spy I don't know what would have happened.

1) Ignore it and make him retcon
2) Roll with it and call BS IC'ly
3) Roll with it and RP the effects of Sloane being a weak, luke-warn puppet

[Novo Wagondia]

I meant Taiwan-China in terms of political relationship and history (refuge for dissidents), not exact geographical proximity. I don't see why a compromise at 500 is too much for either side to bear.

500km is within the combat radius of almost all aircraft.
1000km is only within the combat radius of a few interceptors and modern fighters. In addition his base of resupply is right there and he claims to have OTH which can track targets at 3000km; It's still an advantage for Ardoki hands down, but a series of advantages which offset the numerical advantage pitted against him.

A fair range would be like 2000 or 3000km away, that way both sides are relying purely on naval assets, except Ardokian combat aircraft with external drop tanks.
But we already agreed on 1000km away...

All fair points. And if we've already agreed, why is there any issue? Ardoki still has weapons systems in range, and benefit of being closer for resupply and reinforcements, and is playing the classic die-hard island defense. The IFC benefits from local sentiments and more nations in the invasion force; so each side has their strength and flaws

[Inyourfaceistan]

Sloane was clearly a weak leader and an Ardokian puppet, whether Qui's character made up statistics or not.

By making stuff up he either forces Sloane to prove his credentials and quit bowing down to Ardoki; or it ruins Sloane's career and gives room for a real patriot and anti-Ardokian to step up and take his place.

Sloane was the most anti-UASR (he wasn't anti-Ardokian as he was an Ardokian himself) politician. He was the most anti-UASR they got, before calling for war (which would be economic and literal suicide).

He was in no way anti-Ardoki UASR by any stretch of the imagination...

I'm not the only one here that can see that.

[New Aeyariss]

Sloane was the most anti-UASR (he wasn't anti-Ardokian as he was an Ardokian himself) politician. He was the most anti-UASR they got, before calling for war (which would be economic and literal suicide).

Doubt it. People of the islands could defeat Ardoki, but that of course will take time.

+ There were SACTO / IFC armies standing behind people of Than - SACTO, which has been looking for pretext to fight Ardoki for really long time. Short, quick in pace conflict ended by SACTO victory could tarnish Ardokian reputation on international scene and help in "containing" export of Ardokian version of Marxism.

[Riysa]

Wow, this exploded while I was gone...

Okay, why are you guys making such a big deal out of what Qui did? He was making stuff up on the spot to get a reaction from everyone, just because he said it doesn't mean its true. The only person that has to be blamed for this mess is, quite frankly, Ardoki, who reacted badly OOCly to an IC statement that had no basis behind it.

Ardoki, I think the reason why he did it was because Sloane's portrayal was pretty slavish, honestly. Even if he wasn't a spy, he seemed to cave in pretty quickly, while a leader determined to keep an enemy off of his/her soil would've rallied behind the nations supporting him/her and told O'Brien off.

Now, when we got into this RP, we came in first with the idea that we were going to invade the mainland, then that got changed to islands that were being occupied by Ardoki. We're still fine with the island idea, but I'm very sure we decided on a majority support for independence and anti-Ardoki, with some insurgency going on. Changing it around is a tasteless move, and moving it any closer that 1,000 km gives Ardoki even more of an advantage than he already has. Plus, it means that we're essentially bound to striking the mainland, which I understand he wants to avoid at all costs.

Did I miss anything here?