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Noronica
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1153
Founded: Dec 11, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noronica » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:24 am

Rodger bit back a laugh, "We are merely reacting strongly to the sudden incarceration of international personnel. I'm afraid that is the nature of things lest we be complacent and watch as this happens under our nose. We are not vilifying Charbagnia, merely concerned about the nature of its treatment towards our personnel. If this happened to be Atnaian personnel, I would find it hard to believe that you would be so defensive of the nation that has entrapped them in a situation that they should not have to have gone through. The way I see it, you are continuously going back on the Atnaia vs the Isles rhetoric which is something that is tiring. We do not happen to be discussing Atnaia, instead, we are on Charbagnia which happens to have our personnel. You may put forward your distress once this discussion has concluded."

Rodger leaned forward, his eyes narrowing, "Did I not just say, and I quote, 'if what you said is true in some form or another, I will gladly see that the team is punished, but what we need right now is for the team to be taken to the ICJ'. I shall describe what I meant. I was stating that I would be willing to hear 'both sides of the story' as long as it is fairly trialled by the ICJ. My colleagues and I are not vilifying anybody, just merely annoyed that steps were taken that broke international law."
Last edited by Noronica on Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Atnaia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1907
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Atnaia » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:24 pm

"I have not disagreed with you one iota," Barburj rubbed his eyes. "I never argued that they should not be prosecuted. In fact, if anything, I have advocated for it. My point is that the language we use here and how we approach this situation matters. If we call the investigators 'hostages', the ICJ will certainly factor that language into the discourse. And Charbagnia will factor it into their decision to return those individuals. I am not the enemy here. I am not stonewalling. I am simply asking that we stop jumping to conclusions. I will remind you that arresting and holding indviduals under espionage charges is not against international law, and what the investigators did broke those laws before the Charbagnians did anything that could be constituted a breach. You are right, if an Atnaian was on that team I would fight tooth and nail to get them back, but I would also recognize that leaking privileged, classified information to the press overstepped the line between investigator and spy. This wasn't whistleblowing, since they never approached us. One of those investigators HAD to be the leak, the information had been nowhere else."
Last edited by Atnaia on Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Noronica
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1153
Founded: Dec 11, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noronica » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:39 pm

Losing sight of the conversation Rodger attempted to conclude, “What would you rather call them? I feel it is right for a nation to define them as they like until they are returned. This team is being held unlawfully in another state that has not attempted to contact the League. Instead they keep the team in silence and are waiting for us to negotiate. While we are not dealing with demands, this can be seen as similar to a hostage situation as described by others amongst my colleagues. If the Charbagnian Government hand them over without fuss or any demands, then they shall be off the hook and we shall return to our preliminary investigation. If anything, the Charbagnian Government is more likely to transfer if to just remove their reputation of ‘keeping hostages’. Honourable delegate, this conversation is delving into pedantics and I feel you are concerned over details that will not play a large role in the transfer of the investigators.”

At Barburj’s last comment, Rodger sighed, “They were granted diplomatic immunity, therefore if they were conducting espionage operations, then they should have been expelled. If a member or the public was arrested in a foreign country for espionage, then fine, it is the country’s right to detain them, but this team is a League-sanctioned team that has privileges allowing them to be expelled if they act illegally. They are not allowed to be detained.”
Last edited by Noronica on Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Atnaia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1907
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Atnaia » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:45 pm

"Call them prisoners," Barburj waved a hand. "It is both accurate, neutral and a fair compromise, in my mind. As for how this affects the transfer of prisoners, remember that we are going to have to enter into negotiations with the Charbagnians. The language we bring to those negotiations will certainly colour their perception and attitudes in those discussions. I, for one, would be far more amenable to being helpful if people weren't insinuating that I am a criminal. Calling the prisoners hostages carries that insinuation and will surely alienate the Charbagnians and harm the negotiations."

"Diplomatic immunity should be waived in situations of espionage, the same as it should be waved for any major crime. The laws of diplomatic immunity insinuate that respect should be paid to the laws of the host state. Espionage is a clear violation. At the very least, the Charbagnians have every right to declare the investigators persona non grata."
Last edited by Atnaia on Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Noronica
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1153
Founded: Dec 11, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noronica » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:58 pm

“And I would not object to that. The Charbagnians may declare them that which is exactly what I said earlier, someone who is not welcome in the state and would therefore be expelled. That makes sense, and in that sense diplomatic immunity does not reach being declared persona non grata, but it does extend to incarceration which we see now. Honourable Delegate, we are of the same mind here, just that you are justifying illegal actions.”

Rodger pinched the bridge of his nose, “Calling them prisoners insinuates that they have done wrong. We don’t know that and no one can legally declare them as such until they have been tried by the ICJ. I will remain referring to them as the investigators or team and I will not use the term hostage, but I refuse to use the philosophy of guilty until proven innocent.”

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Atnaia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1907
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Atnaia » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:28 pm

"Calling someone a prisoner doesn't insinuate they have done wrong, simply that they are imprisoned," Barburj said. "Calling them criminals insinuates they have done wrong. We call kidnap victims 'prisoners' at times."
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Noronica
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1153
Founded: Dec 11, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noronica » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:25 pm

Rodger felt ready to concede, he loved politics but the one thing that got to him was pedanticism. It was one of the reasons he had not attended law. Words were extremely important and Rodger knew that, but he had two things that stopped him, one was that he didn’t want to back down, and two, he had been informed that making the Charbagnians angry was the plan. His superiors wanted a chance to explode the powder keg, so he needed to carry the lighter to the fuse.

Sighing, he nodded, this little detail needed to be ironed out, “I must then take a step back and create a middle-ground. ‘Prisoners’ conveys power as well, so we need to ensure that this does not turn into a power-play. I-“ Rodger was about to continue but a little thought popped into his head. Barburj was right, kidnap victims could be called prisoners and to refer to the investigators as such would be almost as good as calling them hostages, therefore angering the Charbs. It was a risk, but it was killing two birds with one stone; satisfying the resident vocal ally of Charbagnia and possibly angering the Charbs. A small smile appeared and he sat back into his chair, “And, while I have my reservations I will concede. Prisoners is an appropriate term to use and I would heavily encourage others to do the same when it comes to the creation of our document to the Charbagnian Government.”

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Atnaia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1907
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Atnaia » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:32 pm

Barburj smiled graciously, but his brain snapped into fourth gear. He had hoped to drag this all out a bit longer. The Hegemon was looking to extend the chaos that was the Charbagnian situation as long as it was feasibly possible to do so. A proxy and scapegoat that could be used to distract until they could get their ducks in a row on Merrit. He was going to have to find as many little loops he could hook and stretch as he could as the situation proceeded.
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Corindia
Minister
 
Posts: 2670
Founded: May 29, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Corindia » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:39 pm

"I agree, Delegate Rodger; the term 'Prisoner' will do if it lets us move forwards."

Of the People, For the People

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Belle Ilse en Terre
Diplomat
 
Posts: 706
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Belle Ilse en Terre » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:45 pm

“Indeed.”
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Atnaia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1907
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Atnaia » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:49 pm

"If we have settled on that term, I think we can move forward," Barburj began, when suddenly his phone buzzed. He quickly scanned the screen and was startled by what he saw. As quickly as he could, he did the mental algebra of the situation, and decided that his best option was to barrel headlong into the coming shitstorm. It was his best chance at appearing to be on the side of the moralizing hypocrites who filled three-quarters of the chairs in the rooms. "Ladies and gentlemen, I think our conversation may have just taken a drastic shift. I'm sure we'll be receiving an update any moment, but it appears the situation with the investigators has changed for the worse."
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Battania Regnum
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Battania Regnum » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:13 pm

While the member-nations of the League we conversating, Viscount Montewar arrived at the Assembly, walking in with a secretary carrying papers and files for the Viscount. Montewar could be seen with his family crest on a small shield pinned to the right of his suit. When he pulled out his pocket watch to check the time, the crest of the Amber Throne was visible on the front of the watch. He took the papers from his secretary, dismissed him, and quietly took his seat to observe and listen to the current discussion.

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Noronica
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1153
Founded: Dec 11, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noronica » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:16 pm

Rodger turned to his aide who had quickly tapped his shoulder. A sheet of paper was handed to him that carried the seal of the Foreign Intelligence Service. Interested in its contents, he quickly read the document and his face turned white. While what was presented to him was a sure-fire way of getting what the Prime Minister wanted, it was too soon and Rodger was concerned for any future investigations as the Charb Government were unlikely to allow any further WMB research. He hoped that the report he had been sent by the investigation before they were arrested was correct.

Sighing, Rodger held the document to his chest and spoke solemnly, "It is with great regret that I must inform the Honourable Delegates of this League of the Western Isles that one of the League investigators currently incarcerated in Charbagnia has passed away. The reasons are vague as the Coroner's report has yet to be published or it is being withheld. So far our intelligence is from leaks within the Charb Government and testimonies from Charbagnian dissenters, it is likely that the investigator had undergone lethal torture or death through maltreatment and malnourishment. As one of those that voted for the sending of the team, I give my heartfelt condolences to the investigator's family and friends, and I deeply hope that this matter may be resolved and brought to light swiftly."
Last edited by Noronica on Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
Posts: 2185
Founded: Dec 29, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Thuzbekistan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:02 pm

Asım Şadi, a dark toned man with black hair, entered the hall and found the seat marked for Thuzbekistan. Seeing that everything had been taken care of on the Paperwork front, he then sat quietly and listened to ongoing conversation. Most of it wasn't in his nation's interest, so he elected not to speak on the topic.
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Atnaia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1907
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Atnaia » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:55 pm

Barburj scratched his knee. "I am at liberty to mention that representatives from my nation are already discussing terms for the release of the investigators who remain prisoners."
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Polar Svalbard
Senator
 
Posts: 3642
Founded: Mar 28, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Polar Svalbard » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:18 pm

Stephanie nodded, "That is good. I thank your representatives. Hopefully we won't have to send letters of condolences to too many families. One is already too many."
Member of The Western Isles
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Noronica
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1153
Founded: Dec 11, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noronica » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:46 am

Rodger spoke again, "We have reports that the investigators are flying back to the International District as we speak, they shall be taken for debriefing and to the hospital before they shall attend the ICJ. It is with utmost sadness and respect that I shall inform the League that the body of the Corindi investigator shall be travelling with them in a coffin." He paused before bringing up his next subject, "Honourable delegates, I feel that I must also inform you that there have been various accounts and media coverages of a recent protest in the city of Helwerder. The most worrying detail is that it deteriorated into mass violence and murder by the Charbagnian Government forces who suppressed the riots."

Rodger's aide informed the staff to put up a leaked videos website, one of its trending videos being the footage of the riots. Several million people had already watched it which meant that it was all the more pressing. He had already watched it several times and knew just how bad the situation was. The video displayed the final moments of the riots, with tanks rolling over anything and everything in their path, firing at any remaining protestors while bodies lay strewn across the ground. Meanwhile, soldiers were being pushed back by protestor's firing back at them. It was a horrific sight, but it was something that needed to be seen.

"I must warn the League that the footage about to be shown is graphic and may contain content that is distressing to some viewers." Waiting for anyone to step out of the chamber, he turned to the Secretary-General, "May I be permitted to show the League this material?"
Last edited by Noronica on Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Corindia
Minister
 
Posts: 2670
Founded: May 29, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Corindia » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:36 pm

Américo had seen the footage, but he still grimaced at the thought of seeing it again. Still, it was important.
"Best to show it regardless, I hope that it impresses the gravity of the situation on those not taking this seriously."

Of the People, For the People

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Negarakita
Diplomat
 
Posts: 902
Founded: Aug 29, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Negarakita » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:16 pm

Purnama walked confidently into the assembly, his immaculate white Baju Koko decorated with both traditional patterns and a small metal pin of the Negarakitan flag. He did not wear a traditional sarong to match his traditional shirt, instead wearing western suit pants rolled up at the ankles according to the sunnah. On his head, a black peci was perched. He wore small glasses that accentuated the impression given by his tidily trimmed beard. He looked at once the proud patriot, devout Muslim, canny schemer and learned scholar. His steps were calm and soft, as if he desired to shroud himself from any attention. When he found the seat labelled Negarakita he sat down carefully, looking around before checking his notes on the issue currently on the docket. The Charbagnian issue was not one that Negarakita cared particularly much about. Their trade interests in Charbagnia were minimum, neither did they have anything of a stake in the political actions. While Negarakita was against the use of chemical weapons, it was not in their internet to stir the pot. State sovereignty was another issue. Some of Negarakita's laws were often cause for international discussion, not least their zero-tolerance approach to drug trafficking. In many regards, it was in their favour to support Atnaia's protection of Charbagnian law. He had no strong opinion on the showing of the videos, having grown up among triad violence in Negarakita, so voiced a quick affirmation.

"I agree that it is valuable to see. However, I believe that delegates who do not wish to see such footage should be allowed to leave the room first."
Muslim revert, supporting wasatiyyah for a true and moderate expression of our faith. Political centrist.

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Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
Posts: 2185
Founded: Dec 29, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Thuzbekistan » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:18 pm

Asim Sadi rolled his eyes. "If the delegates are disturbed by violent footage, then they need not be making decisions for their nations," he said. "Roll clip, somebody."
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Ainslie
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1574
Founded: Jun 15, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ainslie » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:52 am

Parkes looked at the Thuzbekistani delegate and then focused on the Negarakitian. "Welcome, neighbour." He then turned back, taking in the space that the league was in. "Now that we have offered time for delegates and other officials to leave the room, shall we view the footage?" Parkes looked behind him at an empty seat which an Ahnslen was sitting in minutes ago. He gave a concerned look to the Federal Corporal who sat immediately behind him. The FedCor returned a gesture as if to discretely say that the individual left.
Last edited by Ainslie on Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Yinhe
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Sep 25, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Yinhe » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:48 am

Raymond gulped. Naturally squeamish, he doubted he wanted to stay and see such videos. However, walking out wasn't an option either.

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Ter Natiour
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 105
Founded: Nov 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Ter Natiour » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:42 am

(Edited, it seemed rude to the League for entering and just start talking)
As the Ambassador walks into the room and looks for an empty seat, he listens to the Speakers and faintly remembers that Charbagnia is right beside his nation. James Soup walks quietly over to his seat in the official uniform of a commander in Terra Classem (The Military of Ter Natiour) and while waiting for the video to start, quietly calls an aid to start researching Charbagnia and what is happening over there.
Last edited by Ter Natiour on Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Atnaia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1907
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Atnaia » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:08 am

Barburj remained silent, folding his hands upon the table. He was far from squeamish and, given that Taubadel was in Charbagnia, had been briefed on the situation there. He scanned the faces of the collected delegates to get a read on their dispositions.
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"Progress makes perfect." - Hegemon Thomas Wessich

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Noronica
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1153
Founded: Dec 11, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noronica » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:18 pm

(IC RP Post: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=33156508#p33156508)

Rodger followed the reactions, interested in their interactions and who seemed to be one whose 'side'. Once assent had been given by the Secretary-General, Rodger nodded to the staff member who then signalled the tech team to begin playing the video. Once Rodger had heard the tell-tale crackles of bad camera footage, he sat back down and watched the screen closest to him.

The video began with swearing in both French and German as several Charbs ran in and out of shot, some dragging their friends or strangers they wished to help, some dragging themselves across the ground as either they were too weak to walk or were suffering badly from burns. Rodger could see in the background huge plumes of smokes from fires across the tarmac, covering most of the sunlight and giving the square an illusion of hell.

Rodger then heard several outbursts of automatic rifles, and the screams of both Charb protestors and nationalists rang out. Large swathes of Charbagnian troops entered the square and began their brutal assault, swiftly gunning down any that stood in their way. Several grenades were thrown into the crowds which killed many. However, the ones that survived took up their own arms and retaliated.

The fighting was so close that soon it became a close-quarters battle, with several soldiers using their bayonets and the protestors using anything sharp or handguns. The cameraman was having to run quite a far distance to escape the action, but the detail was still caught.

The conflict had become a stalemate with no clear victor until the sounds of squeaking wheels managed to be picked up by the camera. The camera panned towards several tanks and reinforcements in APC's which entered the scene. The tanks stood primarily as a threat, but a few shells were fired, destroying any barricades that had been made by the protestors. The tanks rolled over the carnage and came to the centre of the square where a group had managed to secure themselves on the President's podium. Instead of the tanks firing their shells, two soldiers quickly took apart a crate that they had been carrying and laid a long object on both their shoulders. Rodger realised what it was only when the podium and its barricade fell to pieces and the last of the resistance was quashed.

The cameraman attempted to capture a few shots of the mix of both soldiers and protestors on the ground until several shouts were heard outside of shot which prompted the cameraman to bolt.
Last edited by Noronica on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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