OOC Thread for Inyurstan Whistleblower Crisis [Closed]

[Isle of Lost]

go back and read what cusc wrote

he literally said 'your sub will sink'

like no option about it

i know i know, you're not cusc, but you are both on the same side and co-playing a country, and have the pretty much same attitude

I have been watching this thread since the beginning and I think some input from a different angle might clear this up.

Brytene, have you considered that perhaps the attitude Inyursta and Cuscy have is a bi-product of a lack of cooperation on your side? From what I've witnessed thus far has been a mear series of events where you keep coming out on top simply because, well, I think you don't know how to lose.

-> Embassy raid: Let's be honest, your people got caught in the Embassy. There is no way anyone, even well-trained individuals, are not going to be surprised by an ambush. The cards were stacked against you yet you still got the best and least likely outcome possible considering the planning by paramilitaries, geography of Santiago, distrust of 'Gringos' by the indigenous population and lack of aid by Cuscatlani officials.

-> Aiofe Duel: Considering there was to be nothing fair about that duel (again, questioning if you know how to or even can lose) Aiofe still got shot by a 45 hollow point. Let's be honest again, Nuelle had plenty of time to consider giving up, and therefore plenty of time to aim his shot. Aiofe just died. But, never to lose, Aiofe didn't.

-> Jungle Incident: Two wounded foreigners in the middle of a jungle perhaps 100s of miles from civilization. You'd be on the wrong end of the deal even if they had been in full health both.

-> Submarine showdown: this isn't over yet, so I can't really comment, but I get the idea from your attitude this far that it is going to live. Now may I point out that more than half the battle for a submarine is to remain undetected? Once a submarine hunter, whether a ship or aircraft, finds you you're screwed. The primary idea is not to be found, as that is the only counter measure to a sub hunt unless it is extremely uncordinated and is like only 1 helicopter.


Cooperation requires you to learn how to lose. Inyur let you win the Embassy (believe it or not, you won that), so therefore you should have given lee-way to him in either the Aiofe duel or the jungle thing. If that had happened, they wouldn't hate you right now and perhaps your sub might have escaped; but now that you've pissed them off I am positive they aren't going to let that happen.
I don't know why you can't lose, whether it is just a 'better' country thing or something more serious, but you have to understand that in situations where you have to go head-over-heels to win, you better be willing to lose another similar one or you're just another NS troll who uses the Writer's disconnect to win every battle. That is unfair to other players and generally will make people not RP with you. You hate SACTO a lot, I can tell, but if you keep this up you'll never fight SACTO again after this thread because no one in SACTO will want to RP with an uncooperative nation.

[Inyourfaceistan]

I wouldn't doubt that it happened to someone. If this guy is real I don't want to doubt his courage and sacrifice...
Of course thats also when you have two openings for the blood to release itself (instead of just internally bleeding and drowning)...

However. But what is suspicious in here that Brytene always has expert "under hand" when he needs them. I do not intend to spit on any person and if such guy is real - sorry. But everything as now proves that he is not.

I would have not considered it that much if "calling experts" behaviour did not happened constantly.

Ironically when we consider 1st Expert (computer one) said expert gave no arguments to support his point, which brings me to doubt that he even exists.

Yeah that's true I guess.
Just remember I am IRL biology student and Riysa is a microbiologist so...

*awaits input from Brytene's cousin who is an expert organismal biologist/zoologist and has trekked through both the Amazon, Darien Gap, Congo and interior Borneo while wounded*

-snip-

Just FYI I didn't invite him, he's just posting backing Cusc and I up to get me to post on his thread like I promised...

[Brytene]

Tell me, mr. Cooperatie, has any of us claimed to be a girl to bait us? Have any of us called his imaginary friends to do his binding and confirm his ridiculous claims?

where did I claim to be a girl? lol

I checked the SVD part with a Royal Marine later on to make sure (Fenwyck - ask him to confirm). Your were openly lying to prove your opinion.

lmfao

so wait you asked Fenwyck whether he was what, at the bar with me, or whether he served with this guy? I personally wasn't with the guy in the Balkans or w/e so I can't vouch 100% for him but he showed us the scar and sounded convincing and tbh asking one guy to verify a story about a story he heard isn't exactly 'proof' lol

why should I then bother? For you lying is perfectly fine. Make myself an expert each time I need something. Thing is, your experts say things nobody who happened to be in x position would say - exactly what you need them to say, each time you need it.

oho yeah, because Riysa just happens to have a clan of 'hacker' friends who are experts on this stuff, etc etc

the phone is ringing, it's the pot, he has some news for the kettle

Besides, this only begun after you begun forcing unrealistic situations on us and openly cheating in an RP. Highest degree of cooperative, I must say.

sorry like what?

We are not uncooperative ones here. I met people who actually were far more polite and cooperative than you were. Your "cooperatives" is codename for "I win".

ahh yes, because you, the guy with a page listing all of his one-post carrier group kills, is definitely not interested in winning

There is no dictating causalities - there is pure logic here. There is difference between dictating causalities and somebody claiming that no matter what we do your sub won't sink.

"your sub gets sunk, or at least heavily damaged.

End of story...that sub sinks"

that was you old bean, you said that

If a person requires entire magazine to die, you are a godmoder. Same if a person is hit into heart and lungs by 0.45 ACP in hollow point version.

Good thing she was only hit in one lung then isn't it

i totally agree, if nuelle had managed to put a bullet into each lung and her heart, or if he'd emptied a whole magazine of automatic ammunition into her, she would be dead

but he didnt so

Summoning a person known for starting OOC dramas to cease OOC drama.

Very nice idea. Not like I will say anything bad about Carloso since I am not like certain group - I will not insult him.

'I will not say anything bad about Carloso'

'he is known for starting OOC drama'

also for the record, I didn't "summon him", he came of his own accord, but according to you everything bad in the world is my fault so...

Predicted so much that you not only planned for it but decided to force your demands on people who didn't want them.

yes, yes, i cleverly forced you to open fire on my retreating submarine and forced your embassy staff to open fire

dance on my strings puppet!

You think making demands to the OP about a situation he did not agree to is worse than simply assuming someone's tank is dead after multiple ATGM hits, KEP kits, and air strikes and just ignoring its existence IC?

....no? my point was that dictating casualties IS worse than asking for civility

Fair enough.

But enough about the sub. Im going to let the four torpedoes do the talking...

well what's the point? If anything other than the outcome you want happens, i'll just get a stream of abuse, so...

I wouldn't doubt that it happened to someone. If this guy is real I don't want to doubt his courage and sacrifice...

eyyyy, brownie points for you, that's actually something we can agree on. Doubt computer programmers or biological experts or w/e but don't hate on
veterans

To be fair it was just the lung

-thumbs up-

I have been watching this thread since the beginning and I think some input from a different angle might clear this up.

Brytene, have you considered that perhaps the attitude Inyursta and Cuscy have is a bi-product of a lack of cooperation on your side? From what I've witnessed thus far has been a mear series of events where you keep coming out on top simply because, well, I think you don't know how to lose.

well tbh ask anyone other than these guys I've RPed with

hell, check my iiwiki - brytene has not won a single historical war, other than one skirmish where it was rescued by a huge superpower (ie not me winning) and one where it was occupied for a whole year and the capital city was burned to the ground back in the dark ages.

There's detailed pages for battles where brytene lost, multiple times - the battle of port aspen, for example, where half the entire brytisc navy was lost at a 1/6 casualty ratio in favour of the enemy

Embassy raid: Let's be honest, your people got caught in the Embassy. There is no way anyone, even well-trained individuals, are not going to be surprised by an ambush. The cards were stacked against you yet you still got the best and least likely outcome possible considering the planning by paramilitaries, geography of Santiago, distrust of 'Gringos' by the indigenous population and lack of aid by Cuscatlani officials.

They were surprised though...it basically began with a truck full of terrorists turning up at the front door and flushing the defenders through the house and out of the back door in a panic with only one guy fighting a delaying action. The defenders were then caught out in the open with everyone either dying or being captured, except for the intern who was allowed to leave. IDK how that was a victory for me...

Aiofe still got shot by a 45 hollow point. Let's be honest again, Nuelle had plenty of time to consider giving up, and therefore plenty of time to aim his shot. Aiofe just died. But, never to lose, Aiofe didn't.

it's aoife (irish name) and what do you mean, 'aim his shot' - he fired and hit her about two inches away from her heart or w/e, he punctured a major organ and almost killed her

it's not like iny said 'he shoots at her upper torso' and i said 'lol he hits her foot' or something

Two wounded foreigners in the middle of a jungle perhaps 100s of miles from civilization. You'd be on the wrong end of the deal even if they had been in full health both

is that RP over yet?

i already said just let them freakin die as part of an offered compromise (in which the sub would also be severely damaged and the captain killed) but iny is insistent aoife must die, and keeps calling me untrustworthy anyway so no, we're stuck having to RP that stupid little sideline

this isn't over yet, so I can't really comment, but I get the idea from your attitude this far that it is going to live. Now may I point out that more than half the battle for a submarine is to remain undetected? Once a submarine hunter, whether a ship or aircraft, finds you you're screwed. The primary idea is not to be found, as that is the only counter measure to a sub hunt unless it is extremely uncordinated and is like only 1 helicopter.

Like I said before, I'm not "bad at losing" - but when someone goes IN to every RP we ever have telling me the outcome, why the hell would I give it to them?

I don't know why you can't lose, whether it is just a 'better' country thing or something more serious, but you have to understand that in situations where you have to go head-over-heels to win, you better be willing to lose another similar one or you're just another NS troll who uses the Writer's disconnect to win every battle. That is unfair to other players and generally will make people not RP with you. You hate SACTO a lot, I can tell, but if you keep this up you'll never fight SACTO again after this thread because no one in SACTO will want to RP with an uncooperative nation.

Thanks for the advice, but I've RP'ed plenty before. I've had entire planets belonging to my nations destroyed before, I've had my national leader murdered by fascist rebels sponsored by an enemy player. As discussed, I am not 'proud' of Brytene - it has been trashed over and over through history, and during development of the atlas World War thread it's looking like Brytene is going to be on the losing side.

No, I am not too 'proud'. The problem is: in all my time RPing, this is the first time I've had people try and tell me the outcome of an RP before it's even started, and so no, surprisingly I'm not going to be co-operative. I understand long odds, I get it. But what on earth is the point of an RP where someone has only one outcome in mind and tells you that right at the start, and calls you names if you won't "co-operate"?

I've offered ways out of this a dozen times but each time I'm called untrustworthy, and the best part is I never even lied - Iny wanted a duel, so I promised him OOC that no-one but Aoife would harm him so long as Nuelle stuck to the rules of the duel. Which is true - no-one ever shot him, not until he fired at Aoife when she was unarmed.

He believes I offered him a dice-roll, but actually what he asked was 'what do you think of a dice roll?' and I said 'well that's how i did it with cusc' or something along those lines - apparently from this, I am now the ultimate antichrist and should never be engaged with

except decisions keep being made to extend this rp instead of draw it to a close (chase my sub, talk was made of invading atlas, etc etc)



EDIT - also, I would hope that not all SACTO members would 'blacklist' me just because Iny and Cusc trash talked about me, in fact I have a crime RP planned with one guy already

just like not all Atlas members blacklist Iny and Cusc even though certain Atlas members think they're rude

tbh anyone who joins in a 'blacklist', I'm okay not RPing with anyway

[Isle of Lost]

I don't care about your past RP experience, the fact is this is the only thread I've seen besides mad NS summer threads where someone has ever HAD to tell someone else the outcome simply because they are uncooperative and refuse to lose. Nothing about anything you have done on this thread gives me the idea that you ever bothered considering the possibility that you MIGHT lose.

As impossible of a task as it was to escape that embassy you never once thanked Inyur for allowing you to do it rather than pointing out that they should have Never escaped; rather you tried for MORE of a victory than that was.

As unlikely as it was for Nuelle to miss given the time he had to aim (don't ignore it just because you disagree with it) and as unlikely it is that Aoife lives regardless due to the area she was hit in, I get the feeling you always knew she wasn't going to die.

No matter how impossible it is to escape your death sentence in the jungle, you didn't care and went out of your way to make fate align to allow them to live; even ignoring (at the time) the possibility of letting Cusc or Inyur RP something else and rather just teleported your people through time and space to allow them to live.

So yes, I am sorry that Cusc said your submarine is going to sink because you'd be godmodding to let it live unless you're truly a brilliant submariner strategist. You lost the submarine when you parked it 12nmi off the coast and blazed active sonar. Ignore Cuscatlani territorial claims all you like, but 12nmi off the coast and still operating off active sonar? Your captain sealed the fate of his crew before the first torpedo was dropped on you, and now they HAVE been dropped, what are you going to do? Godmod and evade it? Godmod and deploy some countermeasure that doesn't exist?
Do Not get mad at Cusc for stating the obvious when you had a chance to prevent it but didn't.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Predicted so much that you not only planned for it but decided to force your demands on people who didn't want them.

yes, yes, i cleverly forced you to open fire on my retreating submarine and forced your embassy staff to open fire

Talking about OOC here.

Try to stay focused.

....no? my point was that dictating casualties IS worse than asking for civility

I want a clean-cut conflict in which there will be mutual respect for everyone involved, regardless of alignment. This applys to both sides in the war.

Doesn't look like asking to me...

Dictating casualties (or simply ignoring the existence of certain assets) CAN be worse than demanding terms to the OP, especially over a "war" nobody agreed on, but it is not ALWAYS worse.

Again if you think civility is the issue here then your missing the point...

[New Aeyariss]

@Bryt: My predecessors said exactly what needed to be said, but something to be added;

You are really good in showing your true nature - and by the way mocking yourself - when you poorly attempt to mock me in your post.

Not like that I am concerned about that lack of seriousness, but it has to say a lot about your attitude towards us.

[Brytene]

I don't care about your past RP experience, the fact is this is the only thread I've seen besides mad NS summer threads where someone has ever HAD to tell someone else the outcome simply because they are uncooperative and refuse to lose. Nothing about anything you have done on this thread gives me the idea that you ever bothered considering the possibility that you MIGHT lose.

As impossible of a task as it was to escape that embassy you never once thanked Inyur for allowing you to do it rather than pointing out that they should have Never escaped; rather you tried for MORE of a victory than that was.

Escape the embassy? They made it all of twenty feet, they basically ran out of the back door then got killed or captured - that's not an escape :/

As unlikely as it was for Nuelle to miss given the time he had to aim (don't ignore it just because you disagree with it) and as unlikely it is that Aoife lives regardless due to the area she was hit in, I get the feeling you always knew she wasn't going to die

he didn't miss, he made a pretty much direct hit, and as Iny discovered when he asked on the realism thread, it is totally plausible for someone to survive a single bullet to the lung when given immediate medical attention

No matter how impossible it is to escape your death sentence in the jungle, you didn't care and went out of your way to make fate align to allow them to live; even ignoring (at the time) the possibility of letting Cusc or Inyur RP something else and rather just teleported your people through time and space to allow them to live.

oh, so they are now escaped are they? Sorry, afaik they're still in the jungle...

So yes, I am sorry that Cusc said your submarine is going to sink because you'd be godmodding to let it live unless you're truly a brilliant submariner strategist. You lost the submarine when you parked it 12nmi off the coast and blazed active sonar. Ignore Cuscatlani territorial claims all you like, but 12nmi off the coast and still operating off active sonar? Your captain sealed the fate of his crew before the first torpedo was dropped on you, and now they HAVE been dropped, what are you going to do? Godmod and evade it? Godmod and deploy some countermeasure that doesn't exist?
Do Not get mad at Cusc for stating the obvious when you had a chance to prevent it but didn't.

'stating the obvious'

so tell me, there is literally no outcome possible other than the sub being at the bottom of the sea? is that what you're saying?

[Brytene]

Doesn't look like asking to me...

Dictating casualties (or simply ignoring the existence of certain assets) CAN be worse than demanding terms to the OP, especially over a "war" nobody agreed on, but it is not ALWAYS worse.

Again if you think civility is the issue here then your missing the point...

Er, the 'terms' he demanded were that everyone treat each other with respect

are you saying you object to that?

[Inyourfaceistan]

So yes, I am sorry that Cusc said your submarine is going to sink because you'd be godmodding to let it live unless you're truly a brilliant submariner strategist. You lost the submarine when you parked it 12nmi off the coast and blazed active sonar. Ignore Cuscatlani territorial claims all you like, but 12nmi off the coast and still operating off active sonar? Your captain sealed the fate of his crew before the first torpedo was dropped on you, and now they HAVE been dropped, what are you going to do? Godmod and evade it? Godmod and deploy some countermeasure that doesn't exist?
Do Not get mad at Cusc for stating the obvious when you had a chance to prevent it but didn't.

UH-1 generally has just over a 240nm range.
L8N has a range in the thousands of nautical miles, so it's range is more limited by the range of shore assets and ground-based fighters to support it, but just for the sake of my point we will stick to the UH-1 variant.

Half of 240nm is 120nm.
Eftwyrd's stated top speed is 28kn*, which is 28nm an hour. For the sake of simplicity lets round it up to 30nm per hour.
30 goes into 120 a total of four times.
That means it will take Eftwyrd a total of 4 hours to escape the range of shore-based UH-1N's**; and much longer to escape the range of the L8N's.
All factors held constant the sub will have to survive the better part of four hours*** while under attack from just aircraft.

So no IoL and Cusc, it's not impossible for the sub to survive, it's just EXTREMELY unlikely and improbable.

---

*This assumes Eftwyrd takes no damage from the four torpedoes just fired upon it and/or can sustain top speed
**This assumes the Cuscatlanis don't deploy a destroyer or something with ASW helicopters on board to temporarily extend their range
*** The actual time that the chase has been occurring has not been officially determined or agreed upon by either party, however given the facts that 2 L8N and Camiguana were deployed and in-position before the chase began it's not much, especially in terms of hours

[Flardania]

'stating the obvious'

so tell me, there is literally no outcome possible other than the sub being at the bottom of the sea? is that what you're saying?

Being that close to the shore with the sonar....this is literally the only thing I may have to agree you have to accept. Aoife surviving and all that I saw no issue and your embassy crew was stopped so you didn't escape.

[Isle of Lost]

I don't care about your past RP experience, the fact is this is the only thread I've seen besides mad NS summer threads where someone has ever HAD to tell someone else the outcome simply because they are uncooperative and refuse to lose. Nothing about anything you have done on this thread gives me the idea that you ever bothered considering the possibility that you MIGHT lose.

As impossible of a task as it was to escape that embassy you never once thanked Inyur for allowing you to do it rather than pointing out that they should have Never escaped; rather you tried for MORE of a victory than that was.

Escape the embassy? They made it all of twenty feet, they basically ran out of the back door then got killed or captured - that's not an escape :/

As unlikely as it was for Nuelle to miss given the time he had to aim (don't ignore it just because you disagree with it) and as unlikely it is that Aoife lives regardless due to the area she was hit in, I get the feeling you always knew she wasn't going to die

he didn't miss, he made a pretty much direct hit, and as Iny discovered when he asked on the realism thread, it is totally plausible for someone to survive a single bullet to the lung when given immediate medical attention

No matter how impossible it is to escape your death sentence in the jungle, you didn't care and went out of your way to make fate align to allow them to live; even ignoring (at the time) the possibility of letting Cusc or Inyur RP something else and rather just teleported your people through time and space to allow them to live.

oh, so they are now escaped are they? Sorry, afaik they're still in the jungle...

So yes, I am sorry that Cusc said your submarine is going to sink because you'd be godmodding to let it live unless you're truly a brilliant submariner strategist. You lost the submarine when you parked it 12nmi off the coast and blazed active sonar. Ignore Cuscatlani territorial claims all you like, but 12nmi off the coast and still operating off active sonar? Your captain sealed the fate of his crew before the first torpedo was dropped on you, and now they HAVE been dropped, what are you going to do? Godmod and evade it? Godmod and deploy some countermeasure that doesn't exist?
Do Not get mad at Cusc for stating the obvious when you had a chance to prevent it but didn't.

'stating the obvious'

so tell me, there is literally no outcome possible other than the sub being at the bottom of the sea? is that what you're saying?

Really dude? All you're going to do is argue my statements on what has happened? Is that it? I Already told you that, where you believe it or not, you escaping the Embassy was a 'Victory' in sorts because it was the only better possible outcome.

I don't know know what the disconnect between my criticism of your now retconned News post even though I stated it, does it? Since you don't quite grasp the ideas I am throwing your way in that segment, perhaps I could make it simpler? How about: The fact you bothered posting that in the first place is my evidence? Better now?

And finally, no. I am not saying there is no other outcome. I am just saying you can't lose therefore your going to make the planets align so you can ignore probability and let the thing live. Once again, is that all your're going to say? Not even question your mistakes which led to your submarines' current predicament?


Now, please stop nit-picking minor parts of my argument and realize the Real issue here before you reply to me again.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Escape the embassy? They made it all of twenty feet, they basically ran out of the back door then got killed or captured - that's not an escape :/

Well they basically had literally every possible stroke of luck happen that could happen; let's see:

1) Find out, and raise the alarm, and escape in a matter of seconds before parcos can surround the place
2) Off-duty Cuscatlani sniper can't neutralize a full-body target in a doorway (while Bryton snipers can pick off AT crews through walls)
3) Two government agents + "civilian" (who is actually enemy recon/officer) are undeterred by watching a man go down in front of them as parcos continue to drag their heels and walk as slowly as humanly possible just to get around 1 building
4) The one Cuscatlani supposedly in your pocket coincidentally shows up right in time to create a convientent escape (to nothing)
5) Cuscatlani sniper fails to take out engine block*
6) CADI paramilitaries cant even hit the wheels on a truck*
7) Cuscatlani civilian in Bryton pocket knows about disguised CADI perimeter and avoids and intentional collision*
8+) Lone truck makes it to highway so it can escape to? More guys with guns chasing them? Hijack a plane? Escape through the jungle (lol), Find another embassy dumb enough/brave enough to harbor you so CADI can re-group, reinforce and prepare another attack all the while the Cuscatlani govt. has reasonable cause to believe they are just as guilty as everyone else?*

God I feel like I'm narrating Cinema Sins, lol...

---

*Understanding convenient and highly fortunate events 5 - 8+ were retconned

Doesn't look like asking to me...

Dictating casualties (or simply ignoring the existence of certain assets) CAN be worse than demanding terms to the OP, especially over a "war" nobody agreed on, but it is not ALWAYS worse.

Again if you think civility is the issue here then your missing the point...

Er, the 'terms' he demanded were that everyone treat each other with respect
are you saying you object to that?

Are you saying you support players objecting to OP's word?
Are you saying you support making demands for a 'war' which hadn't been agreed on by everyone who would be involved?

I can ask questions in place of answers too, "m8"...

[Brytene]

'stating the obvious'

so tell me, there is literally no outcome possible other than the sub being at the bottom of the sea? is that what you're saying?

Being that close to the shore with the sonar....this is literally the only thing I may have to agree you have to accept. Aoife surviving and all that I saw no issue and your embassy crew was stopped so you didn't escape.

Thanks

my point about the sub was, actually even if we assume there's no way the sub commander could escape through conventional means (which isn't 100% since nothing in war ever is) then there should still be other possibilities

• a third nation could come into play
• the sub could surface and surrender
• I could get reinforcements (though this is apparently impossible since apparently Cusc lays claim to a circle of the globe with a diameter of 10,000km)
• Politics could change the situation (though again since Cusc hasn't even given an IC reason for declaring war or opening fire and all of his people seem intent on dying a glorious and wasteful death, I doubt any meaningful character or political RP will occur)

but none of this matters since cusc has decided exactly what will happen, and so why should anyone but him even bother writing posts? What's the point?

Really dude? All you're going to do is argue my statements on what has happened? Is that it? I Already told you that, where you believe it or not, you escaping the Embassy was a 'Victory' in sorts because it was the only better possible outcome.

So my guys getting killed and captured 20 feet to the south, instead of INSIDE the embassy, is a 'victory'? A victory would have been them finding a vehicle and escaping, a victory would have been the Cuscatlani police saving them instead of being corrupt, a victory would not end with both soldiers dead and the civilians lost in a jungle

I don't know know what the disconnect between my criticism of your now retconned News post even though I stated it, does it? Since you don't quite grasp the ideas I am throwing your way in that segment, perhaps I could make it simpler? How about: The fact you bothered posting that in the first place is my evidence? Better now?

Ok, so when I make a bad post and it is retconned I'm scum, but when Cusc/Iny do it (for example having a sub send communications back to the surface without a communications buoy, WHAT) then it's just a mistake? Good to know

And finally, no. I am not saying there is no other outcome. I am just saying you can't lose therefore your going to make the planets align so you can ignore probability and let the thing live. Once again, is that all your're going to say? Not even question your mistakes which led to your submarines' current predicament?

See above, and who ever said I thought my grasp of submarine warfare was perfect? If I hadn't had Cusc and Iny sat there from the start going 'HA YOU'RE GONNA LOSE YOU MUST DIE I WILL WIN' then of course I'd be more reasonable, but since this isn't a real sports game where one player can force a win or loss, then starting off with such a boastful attitude was never going to achieve anything

Now, please stop nit-picking minor parts of my argument and realize the Real issue here before you reply to me again.

I am perfectly fine not having this conversation with you though good to see another person telling me what I 'have' to do on an open-ended text based forum

[Inyourfaceistan]

conventional means (which isn't 100% since nothing in war ever is) then there should still be other possibilities
- a third nation could come into play

Like who?

the sub could surface and surrender

Hmmm....

I could get reinforcements (though this is apparently impossible since apparently Cusc lays claim to a circle of the globe with a diameter of 10,000km)

It's possible but keep in mind they will be detected and intercepted by the Cuscatlani navy and air force, and probably also the Inyurstan navy depending on how far north they are...

Politics could change the situation (though again since Cusc hasn't even given an IC reason for declaring war or opening fire and all of his people seem intent on dying a glorious and wasteful death, I doubt any meaningful character or political RP will occur)

Gran Cuscatlan never declared war...

Not sure when war was declared. I didn't see any declaration of war, did you guys see a declaration of war?

[New Aeyariss]

Gran Cuscatlan never declared war...

Not sure when war was declared. I didn't see any declaration of war, did you guys see a declaration of war?

Attack on sub is vengeance for Embassy ICly + take as note that on geopolitical scale Cuscatlan is attempting to "bully" your nation to force it to commit certain acts - namely back down.

a third nation could come into play

And how would it appear in there apart from you trying to teleport Atlas to my shore?

We have entire area mapped with IYF.

I could get reinforcements (though this is apparently impossible since apparently Cusc lays claim to a circle of the globe with a diameter of 10,000km)

I am not laying claim; Consider the fact that a carrier moves

See above, and who ever said I thought my grasp of submarine warfare was perfect? If I hadn't had Cusc and Iny sat there from the start going 'HA YOU'RE GONNA LOSE YOU MUST DIE I WILL WIN' then of course I'd be more reasonable, but since this isn't a real sports game where one player can force a win or loss, then starting off with such a boastful attitude was never going to achieve anything

Have you even bothered why we treat you like that?

There would be no issue if you were cooperative.

But if you insist on "I win" and disregard calls to behave politely, then we have right to seek whatever form of communication you wish to speak.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Gran Cuscatlan never declared war...

Not sure when war was declared. I didn't see any declaration of war, did you guys see a declaration of war?

Attack on sub is vengeance for Embassy ICly + take as note that on geopolitical scale Cuscatlan is attempting to "bully" your nation to force it to commit certain acts - namely back down.

Or the fact that the sub basically acted like it just tried a bio attack against Cuscatlan...

Plus bullying doesn't really work in this case. That would imply both sides actually have anything they are competing over or can actually do anything to each other outside their own spheres of influence...

[New Aeyariss]

Plus bullying doesn't really work in this case. That would imply both sides actually have anything they are competing over or can actually do anything to each other outside their own spheres of influence...

Technically, the embassy personnel decided to do what they did since they heard what happened to investigators.

+ There is geopolitical reason, Cuscatlani crusade against all forms of leftism .

[Isle of Lost]

Being that close to the shore with the sonar....this is literally the only thing I may have to agree you have to accept. Aoife surviving and all that I saw no issue and your embassy crew was stopped so you didn't escape.

Thanks

my point about the sub was, actually even if we assume there's no way the sub commander could escape through conventional means (which isn't 100% since nothing in war ever is) then there should still be other possibilities

• a third nation could come into play
• the sub could surface and surrender
• I could get reinforcements (though this is apparently impossible since apparently Cusc lays claim to a circle of the globe with a diameter of 10,000km)
• Politics could change the situation (though again since Cusc hasn't even given an IC reason for declaring war or opening fire and all of his people seem intent on dying a glorious and wasteful death, I doubt any meaningful character or political RP will occur)

but none of this matters since cusc has decided exactly what will happen, and so why should anyone but him even bother writing posts? What's the point?

Really dude? All you're going to do is argue my statements on what has happened? Is that it? I Already told you that, where you believe it or not, you escaping the Embassy was a 'Victory' in sorts because it was the only better possible outcome.

So my guys getting killed and captured 20 feet to the south, instead of INSIDE the embassy, is a 'victory'? A victory would have been them finding a vehicle and escaping, a victory would have been the Cuscatlani police saving them instead of being corrupt, a victory would not end with both soldiers dead and the civilians lost in a jungle

I don't know know what the disconnect between my criticism of your now retconned News post even though I stated it, does it? Since you don't quite grasp the ideas I am throwing your way in that segment, perhaps I could make it simpler? How about: The fact you bothered posting that in the first place is my evidence? Better now?

Ok, so when I make a bad post and it is retconned I'm scum, but when Cusc/Iny do it (for example having a sub send communications back to the surface without a communications buoy, WHAT) then it's just a mistake? Good to know

And finally, no. I am not saying there is no other outcome. I am just saying you can't lose therefore your going to make the planets align so you can ignore probability and let the thing live. Once again, is that all your're going to say? Not even question your mistakes which led to your submarines' current predicament?

See above, and who ever said I thought my grasp of submarine warfare was perfect? If I hadn't had Cusc and Iny sat there from the start going 'HA YOU'RE GONNA LOSE YOU MUST DIE I WILL WIN' then of course I'd be more reasonable, but since this isn't a real sports game where one player can force a win or loss, then starting off with such a boastful attitude was never going to achieve anything

Now, please stop nit-picking minor parts of my argument and realize the Real issue here before you reply to me again.

I am perfectly fine not having this conversation with you though good to see another person telling me what I 'have' to do on an open-ended text based forum

Part 1. See Inyur's ignored comment right above yours to see what all went right that shouldn't have to see why it is a victory and why it gives off the impression you can't lose.

Part 2. Never said that, but thanks for putting words into my mouth. If you actually read what I posted, rather than assuming that I am scum for being freinds with Cuscy and Inyur (two can play that game), then you would have noticed that all I was doing was using hour straight jump to victory to show your natural lack of cooperation.

I had been expecting you to post an educated argument in return, but rather you just jumped to assuming I am wrong because I bothered to critize you. Same in OOC as in IC I see? Jump straight to victory because you can't lose?

Part 3. If the submarine hunt hadn't occurred after your stunts with both embassies and the Aiofe duel perhaps they too would be more cooperative? You constantly lay blame on them, yet, had you actually bothered to read anything I've said to you rather than assuming it is wrong because of who said it, you'd realize your as much of this problem as them, if not more.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Plus bullying doesn't really work in this case. That would imply both sides actually have anything they are competing over or can actually do anything to each other outside their own spheres of influence...

Technically, the embassy personnel decided to do what they did since they heard what happened to investigators.

And the senator and his aide (although the former is IC'lly considered an "extrajudicial killing")...

+ There is geopolitical reason, Cuscatlani crusade against all forms of leftism .

How does this help that, though?

[Brytene]

Attack on sub is vengeance for Embassy ICly + take as note that on geopolitical scale Cuscatlan is attempting to "bully" your nation to force it to commit certain acts - namely back down.

The first part makes no sense since your embassy staff attacked brytene, but the second makes a little more sense. But you could at least show some inner workings, because it feels like there is no-one making decisions IC in Cuscatlan, just everyone pre-programmed to hate

And how would it appear in there apart from you trying to teleport Atlas to my shore?

We have entire area mapped with IYF.

So no-one on II is allowed to be anywhere near south america or the caribbean, or else have ships passing by?

I am not laying claim; Consider the fact that a carrier moves

really not trying to be rude but I don't understand this, can you re-word it?

we treat you like that

Thanks for admitting it. Yeah I've been obtuse but that's because it's a two-way street - you treat me badly, I treat you badly. You can't tell me I'm solely to blame - instead of trying to point fingers how about we try to find a way to extricate ourselves from this massive mess (like I've been asking for about 10 pages)

Part 1. See Inyur's ignored comment right above yours to see what all went right that shouldn't have to see why it is a victory and why it gives off the impression you can't lose.

Except that half the list was retconned, and the others
1 - they crashed a hummer through the front gate of a building with about 5 rooms, of course a soldier can shout 'GET OUT' and they can all run away
2 - uh, that soldier was shot - iny just never made it clear that the guys were going to shoot the moment they fired, and he's dead anyway
3 - So my guys running away from the people shooting them is somehow me godmodding?
4 - OK yeah so the intern arrived at a handy time - but as said, that didn't exactly save the day

so in other words, i should count the embassy where all my guys died or were captured as a victory because brytisc people know to unsuccessfully run away from terrorist gunmen?

Never said that, but thanks for putting words into my mouth. If you actually read what I posted, rather than assuming that I am scum for being freinds with Cuscy and Inyur (two can play that game), then you would have noticed that all I was doing was using hour straight jump to victory to show your natural lack of cooperation.

Uh, I didn't know you were 'friends' with them, Iny just said you were RPing together, and I don't think (as this RP proves) that automatically makes you friends...

but yes you caught me I hate everyone Iny and Cusc have ever touched

I had been expecting you to post an educated argument in return, but rather you just jumped to assuming I am wrong because I bothered to critize you. Same in OOC as in IC I see? Jump straight to victory because you can't lose?

This is just petty insults lol, I'm not going to respond in kind, sorry

. If the submarine hunt hadn't occurred after your stunts with both embassies and the Aiofe duel perhaps they too would be more cooperative? You constantly lay blame on them, yet, had you actually bothered to read anything I've said to you rather than assuming it is wrong because of who said it, you'd realize your as much of this problem as them, if not more.

Okay, so you're claiming I'm only disagreeing with your points because I 'didn't read them' and because I'm dismissing you entirely? my keks sind ausgefressen

[Brytene]

K, here's what I propose, feel free to stop me if I am evil scum and it would be easier (Wat) to keep RPing with me

> The sub is badly damaged (6 months drydock minimum) and the captain killed, but makes it away

Reasoning - given there is some confusion about how far away reinforcements are (it's somewhere between 600 and 5500km apparently) plus both sides are pretty entrenched and seem to think they already know the outcome down to the last butterfly wing, this seems a fair compromise - millions of dollars of damage plus a high-ranking officer killed. Given anti-sub warfare just relies mostly on bombarding a sub until you score a hit or damage it, this means that a clean escape (no injuries) or an outright kill (sinks with all hands) depends on long the chase goes on for, and we're never gonna agree on that.

EDIT - at 600km, an F-15C could be over the combat zone within like 10-15 minutes and even at 1,200km could be there in 20-30, let alone something as fast as a MiG, meaning that we could also get into a massive clusterfuck and argue even more and that the death of the sub is by no means a 'sure thing'

> Melendez lives

Reasoning - Tancias didn't

> Darryl and Maggie die

Reasoning - I can't be bothered to do a Bear Grylls RP, plus the sub got away

[New Aeyariss]

really not trying to be rude but I don't understand this, can you re-word it?

Sorry browser ate half of my post.

I meant that Nimitz for example moves at 30+ knots (56+ km/h; 35+ mph) to illustrate you that your fleet will not be in range at once.

Thanks for admitting it. Yeah I've been obtuse but that's because it's a two-way street - you treat me badly, I treat you badly. You can't tell me I'm solely to blame - instead of trying to point fingers how about we try to find a way to extricate ourselves from this massive mess (like I've been asking for about 10 pages)

Can you please bother to copy my entire posts not select what you want to answer to?

My statement was that I will not allow myself to be mocked, what you are doing all the time. I never seen you even bothering to cooperate with us, just go mad once you got something not according to your posts.

Besides, nobody here bothered to tell you that sub will sink; what I meant in your posts was that realistically your sub is dead.It lost only element that kept it alive - stealth.

And IC reason for that attack was that Cuscatlani government wanted to show entire world "how weak" (not stating an opinion, just how gov attempted to portray yoy) your nation ICly by not being able to respond to provocations.

Reasoning - given there is some confusion about how far away reinforcements are (it's somewhere between 600 and 5500km apparently) plus both sides are pretty entrenched and seem to think they already know the outcome down to the last butterfly wing, this seems a fair compromise - millions of dollars of damage plus a high-ranking officer killed. Given anti-sub warfare just relies mostly on bombarding a sub until you score a hit or damage it, this means that a clean escape (no injuries) or an outright kill (sinks with all hands) depends on long the chase goes on for, and we're never gonna agree on that.

1) WWII ended long ago.

2) There is no Brytenian vessel at least 4000 km from Cuscatlani shore, since you never RPed them moving there, and I quite frankly do not remember Atlas being closer to me. As I stated before teleporting landmasses to call up aid is not gonna work - and if you insist, entire Cuscatlani armada is waaaay closer, remember that.

[Brytene]

just go mad once you got something not according to your posts.

Both sides have been doing that

Besides, nobody here bothered to tell you that sub will sink; what I meant in your posts was that realistically your sub is dead

You straight-up said it would sink.

There is no Brytenian vessel at least 4000 km from Cuscatlani shore, since you never RPed them moving there, and I quite frankly do not remember Atlas being closer to me. As I stated before teleporting landmasses to call up aid is not gonna work - and if you insist, entire Cuscatlani armada is waaaay closer, remember that.

So in other words, you're only laying claim to 8000km of the planet, not 10,000km, and you're absolutely dead-set on RPing with someone who you think is a terrible RPer?

[New Aeyariss]

You straight-up said it would sink.

Why?

So yes, I am sorry that Cusc said your submarine is going to sink because you'd be godmodding to let it live unless you're truly a brilliant submariner strategist. You lost the submarine when you parked it 12nmi off the coast and blazed active sonar. Ignore Cuscatlani territorial claims all you like, but 12nmi off the coast and still operating off active sonar? Your captain sealed the fate of his crew before the first torpedo was dropped on you, and now they HAVE been dropped, what are you going to do? Godmod and evade it? Godmod and deploy some countermeasure that doesn't exist?
Do Not get mad at Cusc for stating the obvious when you had a chance to prevent it but didn't.

^ That.

Also as a note; ASW is not about bombarding sub. This is not WWII. ASW is about DETECTING the sub. Once it is detected sub is usually dead.

[Inyourfaceistan]

But you could at least show some inner workings, because it feels like there is no-one making decisions IC in Cuscatlan, just everyone pre-programmed to hate

Because there was so much inner workings when catamount and her thugs murdered a guy in cold blood?
So much inner workings when they poisoned Melendez for no fucking reason other than to compromise the lives of everyone involved with the drop?

And how would it appear in there apart from you trying to teleport Atlas to my shore?

We have entire area mapped with IYF.

So no-one on II is allowed to be anywhere near south america or the caribbean, or else have ships passing by?

Never said that.
There was a slight misunderstanding that what you were reading on OTH was in fact an interpretation of some unusual pixels around the area of Cuscatlan, and not a face-down video game/movie-style monitoring monitoring of the situation...

However if they want to risking getting that close to Cuscatlan keep in mind he has a fucking navy and an air force and shore defenses, which includes the ability to detect and intercept from a long ways out...

extricate ourselves from this massive mess (like I've been asking for about 10 pages)

Like what?
Because right now I'm damn certain I can sink that sub either this turn or the next, unless some insane occurence flies out from left field; and the jungle execution-turned-potential-miracle-survival story will simply last until your people either fuck up, get unlucky or get detected...

So honestly I could go silent OOC right now and this will most likely end in a result that I'm fine with; so unless you have something worth bargaining for or just want to call it quits yourself if this situation is as bad as you say it is im just going to let it play out...

1 - they crashed a hummer through the front gate of a building with about 5 rooms, of course a soldier can shout 'GET OUT' and they can all run away

*Crash*
*CADI moves out and storms the grounds*
"Hey what's that?"
"Let me look at the security cams."
"Oh it's guys with guns run."
"Oh shit they are everywhere!"

Vs

"Ready..."
"On your mark..."
*Crash*
*CADI loligags and takes their sweet fucking time*
"Go go go!!!"