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OOC: Casualties And How To Take Them

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Ozymos
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OOC: Casualties And How To Take Them

Postby Ozymos » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:54 am

Casualties & How To Take Them
A (Relatively) Comprehensive Guide To Death & Destruction In International Incidents


Alright, this is a guide to Casualties and how to take them. Far too often, I see a fair amount of people in NS wars (PT, MT and FT) either not taking their hits by simply trying to ignore the attacker or by coming up with BS reasons as to how their troops crossing an open field were not turned to mush by the nuke that was just detonated next to them. I realise that there is a bit of this in Euroslavia's Helpdesk, but as far as I can see, it doesn't go into taking casualties much.


How To Win - Sponsored By Landeen


How do you win on NS? Well, it's not a simple as winning or losing in that sense. As noted by Euroslavia, if you don't like reading or writing, you won't like NS or II. Winning is defined by the person. If your only purpose is to conquer the world/star system/universe, you will never win, as there's always someone bigger than you or someone who's willing to fight or ignore you. If you come here with an intent of playing out an interesting and compelling story, then odds are you'll win every time.

In terms of war, if you're going to have one the best ones are always dicussed beforehand, rather than in the spring of the moment. This way, you have a rough idea of what will happen, and you can limit it so people don't bring ridiculous amounts of forces into the fray. Odds are, in a spontaneous war, one side will get dogpiled and they get cross/upset at this and leave, and the entire RP falls to bits. And in that case, everyone loses.

War On A Whim


Continuing from what I said on winning and losing here on NS, this is something that also needs addressing. Some of the most common threads on II, especially by newcomers, have a similar theme: they all wish to incite a war. Or at least, that seems to be what actually happens in the end. If you came here planning to just make an intro and that happened by accident, then it's not your fault. For those of you who do;

Be prepared for dissapointment. You'll be wasting time and making a bad name for yourself. 9/10, wars on a whim end with the instigator leaving in a rather angry temper.

The best wars, indeed, some of the best RPs, are ones that have been planned out and the goals set before they are begun. Although this may sound silly, planning a war with an enemy, remember that they're only your enemy ICly. Making enemies OOCly is a bad move, because most of the people here on NS will not mind you being an IC enemy as long as your willing to get along with them OOCly. For example, take the Grand World Order. As a facist dictatorship, he is the epitome of everything my MT government stands against. That said, out of character, I have respect for him from his writing skills and such things.

What Is A Casualty?


Though it may sound odd, I suppose it should be addressed. From Wikipedia;

Wikipedia wrote:A casualty is a person who is the victim of an accident, injury, or trauma. The word casualties is most often used by the news media to describe deaths and injuries resulting from wars or disasters. Casualties is sometimes misunderstood to mean fatalities, but non-fatal injuries are also casualties.

In military usage, casualties usually refer to combatants who have been rendered combat-ineffective, or all persons lost to active military service, which comprises those killed in action, killed by disease, disabled by physical injuries, disabled by psychological trauma, captured, deserted, and missing, but does not include injuries which do not prevent a person from fighting.

Civilian casualties is a military term describing civilian or non-combatant persons killed or injured by military action. The sum of casualties, whether military personnel or civilians, is known as the casualty count. Civilian prisoners of war are also casualties of war, but are counted separately from those injured or killed.


Basically, a casualty is what your soldiers and civillians become when they are maimed, wounded or killed in a war - be it by enemy fire, friendly fire, or just their own incompetance. They basically become a statistic (although most soldiers and civillians are already statistics here in NS). A casualty must be removed from your overall Order Of Battle (ORBAT) during a war. Once gone, they can be replaced, in time. For all immediate purposes however, they are out of the fight.

Types Of Casualties


Okay, so let's look at types of casualties to begin with. This covers both men and vehicles in this section;

KIA - Killed In Action: Soldier or vehicle has been totally destroyed. List as casualty.

WIA - Wounded In Action: Soldier or vehicle has been partially damaged. Potentially listed as casualty. More likely to count as a casualty for man than machine.

MIA - Missing In Action: Soldier or vehicle has not been verified KIA or WIA but has not been seen since the battle ended. Such a designation can be good for playing out an injured character behind enemy lines.

POW - Prisoner Of War: Soldier or vehicle has been captured by the opposing forces. Has the potential to be listed as a casualty, depending on what some nations do with POWs. If they decide to execute them, then they immediately become KIA. If they are left alive, they may be listed as MIA and also possibly WIA. If you agree with the OpFor, then you may try a rescue mission at which point they may no longer be listed as caualties. Otherwise, treat them as MIA.

Attacker Vs Defender: Doing Your Research


Okay, so we've looked at types of casualties, so now we move on to how they become casualties. More often than not, it tends to be because they were shot by the enemy, although sometimes it may be due to something else. To begin with, let's look at an example of an Attacker/Defender scenario;

Defender wrote:Sgt Foley and his men advanced through the wrecked suburb. Bodies lay everywhere, both hostile and friendly. The only sound was the crackle of a burning car nearby. Then, a sudden vocie made them all jump. A woman, her clothes bloodied from a bullet wound, had spotted them, and had used the last of her energy to get their attention. They rushed over and tried to treat her wounds.


Then the attacker's turn;

Attacker wrote:Suddenly, a pair of A-10 Thunderbolt II's roared by overhead. They did not see Foley's men at first, but on a second pass, spotted the group. They headed off and then turned back once more. This time, the roar of their nose-mounted 30mm cannons filled the air as they performed a strafing run on the group.


And now the Defender responds;

Defender wrote:"Take cover!" Foley shouted as the A-10's fired. He ducked behind a car as he saw one of his men get hit by cannon fire. Luckily for him, his armour stopped the bullet-


And that's where you stop. Often, the defender does not do the homework on the attackers forces. Much as you might not want to lose a character or some troops, if you get into a war then that's going to happen and you have to accept it. For the purposes of the example, it is important to note that an A-10's nose gun fires shells that rip tanks in half. One man's armour isn't going to stand a chance. But consider the fact that Foley is allowed to survive because he ducked. He may, through sheer luck, survive such an attack.

However, there are some exceptions. FT is a big one, where the number of different types of weapons, shields, FTL drives and so on and so forth, can make it difficult to do some cross-referencing. Realistically, if you're facing down a ship that is twice as big and with four times your firepower, you should be well prepared for the reality that you might not win in a one-on-one battle. All in all, use some common sense when it comes down to taking casualties.

Morale - The Invisible Injury


This has had me thinking for some time now. Most people seem to (or do so intentionally) gloss over the effect that some events in war will have on their troops. For example, the soldiers coming under heavy and relentless artillery fire, or facing down a tank regiment, or their leader being shot dead by a well-hidden sniper.

All these events will affect your troops in different ways. Indeed, the reason for most people glossing over it may be because there are so many variables, and in a non-character RP, I suppose it makes little difference. However, if you do intend to play the morale card, remember that not all soldiers will be rallied by the death of a General. Some will cower in fear, some will run, some will be unmoved and some will be rallied. Unless they either have no emotions or are a race of war-bred animals.

A Word On Army Sizes, Economies, Nukes And Casualties - Written By Lynion


Lynion wrote:When I first came to Nationstates, back in the Jolt Days, I remember reading through the threads about different stories/issues/conflicts/war/drama/natural disasters. Sure, it was interesting to read them but I always noticed how the numbers of a nation military was established. Economy, population and percentage of population in the armed forces were the focus points. This includes everything from the lowest private, to the high ranking generals, to the pilots and the mechanic’s. Pay is based on average and the rest is focused on equipment, training, skills, and supplies, etcra. Taking the advice from older/veteran Jolt/NS players, I was able to figure out that if I stayed under 2% in peace time, I could maintain a capable military. During war time, it might climb to 3%, if invaded, close to 5%, not including the men and women that did national service for five years and went on to do something else (EG: Retail Industry, Farming etcra). I still keep that policy but, in recent time I’ve never being required to climb any higher than 2%. Then came along Nationstates.net forums...I didn’t think it would’ve changed that much.

Upon arriving at Nationstates.net forums and upon when this was posted, I’ve witness/read several threads with military forces where (not picking on anyone) NSer’s have posted freakingly oversized military forces. Then, when older/veteran Jolt’s players made a statement that the economy would be ruined because of the military size. Then of course the players would be saying there are no rules about it and eventually they’ll be ignored.

Sure, there are no rules but there are guidelines. Just as Captain Barossa explained to Elizabeth Swan onboard the Black Pearl.

“Thirdly, the code is more of a guideline than actual rules,” (Pirates of the Caribbean Curse of the Black Pearl)

However, the guidelines are simple.

(Peace Time) Anything under 2% for the population to be in the armed forces is to be considered to be for peace times or perhaps for minor wars. Keep in mind that the less armed forces you have, the better train they’ll be, better supplied, better supported and better equipped than an oversize military.

Example:

The first Gulf War in 1990 was sparked when Suddam Hussein invaded the small nation of Kuwait over oil. Kuwait didn’t stand much of a chance because the Iraqi army was the FOURTH biggest in the world at the time. However, when politics was over and the bullet was needed, a Coalition Force numbering close to 500,000 liberated Kuwait and exterminated the Iraqi Army which had out-numbered them. At one point, due to the heavy number of surrendering Iraqi Forces, the Coalition Forces gave them a bottle of water and ordered them to march behind the advancing forces.

Why? The Iraqi Forces did have the numerical advantage over the Coalition Forces but it lacked everything else. According to some sources, the AK-47’s had rusted parts and often jammed, the training was very basic, officers and NCO’s weren’t experienced and lacked leadership skills.

(Caution) 2% to around 4% is considered, you want to go to war but you’re not prepared to go Full War. This can be risky but might also might be needed since you believe the war will be short or between yourself and your friends/allies/coalition forces that you’ll be able to defeat the enemy force/s. Why do I say risky? Possible answers (Next is Full Scale War Example).

Example:

During WW2 Hitler’s Germany between 1939 to around 1944, The Third Reich was at a Caution level with intensions of waging a very short war after witnessing Chambell’s Britain and France and appearing not to be lifting a finger against him, except through chatter. Seeing this, Hitler thought that maybe Britain would side with Germany into crushing the Communist Soviet Union even though the Soviets and the Germans agree not to attack each other. (Communist with Fascism? Everyone knows the outcome) (This is A theory). Hitler viewed Britain as a superiorly race like Germany. (Hitler believed that anyone with blonde hair and blue eyes were the superior race...something along those lines). With this in mind, he didn’t believe that he would have to fight them. However, when Germany invaded Poland, WW2 broke out. So how does this helps us? Hitler didn’t believe (theory) that he would have to attack Western Europe and wanted to invade Communist Soviet Union (theory). It could be assumed that the Third Reich was at caution level which explains why it wasn’t purely focused on Full Scale War. Could be one of the reasons why it failed to hold its conquered territory.


(Full Scale War) Arguments can be started over the percentage level but as a rough guess, it can be anywhere between 4% and 6% of the population in the military. Why? Some NSer’s believe 10% is the limit while others think it should be 5%. Whichever you think is right for you, I would give myself a limit of 5%, 6% if I’m getting desperate (hope that never happens).

Example

The United Kingdom during the Second World War, under Chambell and Churchill, the United Kingdom and many of the nations still loyal to the crown (EG: Canada, Australia, New Zealand), went straight into Full Scale War (Australia and New Zealand is debatable but won’t go into it). The UK had every right to go into Full Scale War even though their first battle against the Germans wasn’t until 1940 (Norway, France, Dunkirk and start of the Battle of Britain). Rations were introduced heavily, the war effort was huge and it jumped straight into Full Scale War. However, the battles didn’t start until 1940 (Norway and France). With the bulk of the national budget going into the armed forces, this would support why it was capable of defending itself until the tide turn in the Allies favour.

Conclusion being risky or not: Risky because you can’t really tell what’s going to happen in the next minute. Whether Hitler intended to go Full Scale War or not for any reasons, I’m not sure. However, it might’ve helped support his armies across Europe and the forces in their new lands. The UK on the other hand didn’t seem to take a chance. Much like Hitler, they didn’t know that in 1941, Germany would invade the Soviet Union but their choice to go Full Scale War might’ve being between them and being invaded (theory). Much like NS, the choice can be both risky and might save your nation.

Overall

Like I said before, these are simple guidelines that will/can/definitely/might be debated about by NSer’s since everyone has a different point of view and I can’t force you to change it. However, I can give you good advice that won’t get you ignored. Having a massive army can be very impressive but if you lack everything else, a smaller and better supplied, trained, equipped, supported force will/can take it out. Yes there have being some RP’s where a smaller force has out-done a larger force and it can be done. Whether or not your opponent intends to do so or just how you play your cards, it can happen and sometimes, it makes the RP interesting, as in the plot/story. However, if you become too cocky, or believe that what I wrote everyone will submit too, don’t let it happen. There’s even times when a larger force will wipe out a smaller one and yes, there have being a few RP’s and plenty of RL conflicts/wars but I’m not going to go into it.

One last note

There’s one last thing that just came to my mind. I remember in a thread somewhere that an NS player had around a 10 million population (stated on his NS face page) but claimed to have colony populations in total around 1.2 billion. Ok...for heaven’s sake, go by what your population is on your NS Page (unless it’s FT). Nobody is going to take you seriously if you do that. Which brings me to another thing, other RPer’s will give you more respect if you go by your economy, the national budget and your population.

Before I continue, there are some RPer’s out there (such as myself) that’ll have less population than stated on the NS Page. Example: on my NS page, I’ve got a population of over 3 billion but I RP with 1 billion since it’s easier to maintain. You can have a small population which is fine as long you inform others if it’s required.

Finding required numbers in the armed forces.

Everyone is going to sit down and think to themselves: How the bloody hell do you find your military strength? Actually I shouldn’t have said that but I thought it should be said. First off, some people will just do a certain percentage of their population in the military. Sure, that’s nice. All it does, it gives you the numbers and nothing else. What about pay and spending money? I’ll show you how to do it and I’ll use my nation, with the RP population of 1 billion to explain how to find the numbers.

I’m going to do the peace time scenario and have 2% as my starting place. For those who don’t know, it’s population multiply by 0.02. My answer gives me 20 million as the armed forces. Taking that, you divide the Defence Budget by 20 million which gives me how much I spend on EACH soldier.

For anyone interested in a Nationstates Budget outline, I use this website: http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/main.aspx

My Defence Budget: $32,341,331,635,245.40 divided by 20 million = $1,617,066.58

In this case, I might spend on average $300,000 to $400,000 on each personal. Remember it’s AVERAGE. This means it might be different for a new mechanic than a high ranking general. I’m not going to go into that.

Having 2% is impressive but I’m going to add 1% and 0.5% to the table just to give you an idea.

1% would be 10 million, same maths, outcome is: $3,234,133.16. I might be generous and do between $400,000 and $500,000 since I got a higher amount to spend on each soldier.

0.5% is 5 million, same maths, outcome is: $6,468,266.32. I will be generous and do between $600,000 and $700,000 for each personal.

However, looking at everything, considering my three colonies and the homeland to defend, I would stick with 20 million strong. Why? Mainly for the numbers and to defend the colonies, if I didn’t have the colonies then I might go with 10 million since it’ll be easier to defend.

If I find that it was somewhere between 1% and 0.5%, I would narrow it down until I find a comfortable number to RP with as well as take part in conflicts. However, since I’m comfortable with 20 million, I’ll stick with it. Others might want to debate about payments per soldier, but that’s how I’ve done it and it has worked pretty well so far. Others might find it comfortable less than 1%, however, it all depends on how the budget works, population and what you feel comfortable with.

Nuclear weapons etcra.

Nuclear weapons program...no I’m not going to touch the subject, no I’m not going to even attempt it and no, I’m not interested in doing an explanation on nuclear weapons. I don’t want to do it because honestly, I’ve got no clue how a nuclear program works. Why don’t I do it? Besides what I just wrote, I’ve seen RP’s and taking part in RP’s where nuclear weapons just destroys the RP and I really don’t like that. Another thing, I don’t see the point in wiping out a nation with nuclear weapons if it doesn’t give me anything in return besides a crater of nothing and radiation. If you want advice, I can’t recommend anyone since I don’t know anyone but, if you go through some of the storefronts and/or RP’s, you might find someone. If anyone wants to put themselves out to give advice those whose looking for advice, please TG me about it and I’ll put your name up in the same post.


Unique Characters/Ships - Sponsored By The Steppe Empire


Yeah, I see this happening alot. Okay, so you've named your ship/plane/starship after a famous ship/plane/starship. Said naming is not a way of guaranteeing it's invincibilty. Some of the most common are among Star Trek fans here (i'm slightly among them, although not entirely), that they have a ship called "U.S.S Enterprise", or "U.S.S Voyager". Now, the important thing to remember is that just because they're invincible in the TV show (in the case of the Enterprise, it wasn't anyway), doesn't mean it carrys over to here. Enterprise or not, one ship with a fancy name cannot take on a whole fleet single handedly and win unscathed. That's the height of GodModding. Remember, just because it's got a fancy name, doesn't make it invincible. This goes for characters too. To illustrate this point, i'll simply post this quote;

Doctor Who Wiki wrote:Staal: "My name is Staal, The Undefeated"
The Doctor: "Oh, that's not a very good nickname. What if you do get defeated? Staal The-Not-So-Undefeated-Anymore-But-Never-Mind?"


Awesome name =/= Invincibility.

On the other hand, doesn't mean you have to permanently lose it either. Although harder with people (although GWO has managed to pull that trick off), it is easy to replace ships and give them the same name. Such an act also gives a ship a bit of history.

So by all means, give your ship or character an awesome name, but keep in mind it won't save them from a bullet to the head or a sword through the gut.

Posting Those Casualties


Alright, so you've been attacked and the attacker has won the day. Your men have been slaughtered. What now? Well, you post the results of such an engagement. This can be done in the midst of story telling;

The tanks rolled forward, firing as they went. The enemy took out three of them with their RPGs, but the remaining seven pressed forward.


Or a more easy to read casualty list;

x3 M1A1 Tanks
x3 Tank Crews


Even a combination of both will do. As long as you post them.

What To Do If Your Opponent Isn't Taking Hits - Sponsored By Malcastrineze


More often than not, GodModding spirals out of control because one side is taking their hits and one side isn't. There may be a multitude of reasons for this, but for the purposes of this it doesn't much matter. What matters is sorting it out so that casualties are taken.

Okay, so lets say your opponent isn't taking hits from your tanks, or planes, or ships, or whatever. How do you go about getting them into line?

Well, the first thing is to be blunt - ask them (politely) to post their losses. If you get ignored, politely restate the inquiry to them. If this continues, you are well within your rights to demand that they post their casualties.

Often, it won't come to more than that. If it does, and your opponent refuses to take any damage, then there are some things you can do.

Leaving the RP should be considered a last resort. You retcon all involvement in the RP and it's as if you were never there. If you're not prepared to do that, then you state that you're not posting anything else untill the opponent takes the hits. If that fails, you can continue to post but state that you will ignore any damage done by the opponent not taking hits untill he posts his casualties. I know some will say "two wrongs don't make a right" but in this case, short of leaving the RP, it is all you can do.

One thing that will become apparant if you are seen taking hits when your opponent isn't is that you'll soon gain friends. People (such as myself) will point things out and can exert pressure on some nations to take hits. They will also be more willing to RP with someone who is respectful enough to take hits than someone who isn't.

The Art Of Losing


This is part of Euroslavia's Helpdesk thread, but i'll post my short take on it here.

Basically, make it good. Even if it's your main man going down, if you let him go the enemy will have more respect for you and will probably let you take a few grunts with him as he dies. A good loss is much better than a crappy, godmodded win. It will earn you a damn sight more respect among regular players on the forums.

/rant.
Last edited by Ozymos on Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:48 am, edited 18 times in total.
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Mirnect
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Postby Mirnect » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:03 am

I applaud this completely.
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Postby Rethan » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:08 am

I wonder what sparked this off. ;)

I agree entirely. One must be ready to accept casualties in a war, regardless of how "special" their characters/warship/godlike being of awesomeness is.

However, there are times when I am willing to make exceptions, either for the sake of plot or because of some other reason. For example, in FT a nomadic race: blowing up their colony ship is significantly easier than invading a planet. In such a situation I'd be more than willing to give it a degree of invulnerability, given that I'd view it as a planet, not a warship.

In MT this becomes less likely to happen, because it's easier to relate to the technology being used and less fantastic things happen in general. Realism has a higher stake in MT, and as a result I am less likely to be willing to afford unnatural survivability to a "super character".

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Postby Ozymos » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:15 am

Rethan wrote:I wonder what sparked this off. ;)


I know, it's a mystery to me too :eyebrow:

Actually, it's been preying on my mind for some time now. Steppe's BS just pushed it to the forefront and it became an issue.
Last edited by Ozymos on Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Landeen » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:29 am

Rethan wrote:
Sometimes losing is more fun than winning.


I would say that whoever details the best story "wins".

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Postby Malikov » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:05 am

Ozy, I like your new flag, although i had grown accustomed to your old one.

In any case, great job here. Although a slightly better way of posting causalty's (I feel at least) would be having a General receive reports (RP the reports, instead of OOCLY listing them). I find that saying: 3xtanks KIA || 5x troops MIA, ect... detracts from the quality of the RP. I prefer seeing interactions like this:

"Sir!" a private rushed up to General Herman, "The latest reports are in from intelligence!"

A scowl appeared under the General thick white mustache. His eye's narrowed, as he leveled his gaze at the solider who dare adress him in such a harried manner. "Well, don't just stand there private. What's the report say?"

"Well sir," the private tugged at his uniform's collar, and beads of sweat began appearing on his forehead, "apparently Baker company is...

And then you get into the details.
Last edited by Malikov on Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Ozymos » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:07 am

Malikov wrote:Ozy, I like your new flag, although i had grown accustomed to your old one.


Eh, i've been concentrating on FT recently, so my flag needed to be a little more spacey.

By the way, feel free to add to this. I will be adding stuff in as it comes to mind.
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Postby Malikov » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:15 am

Ozymos wrote:*snip*

By the way, feel free to add to this. I will be adding stuff in as it comes to mind.

Alrighty then, and example of my prefered causalty posting...

Sir!" a private rushed up to General Herman, "The latest reports are in from intelligence!"

A scowl appeared under the General thick white mustache. His eye's narrowed, as he leveled his gaze at the solider who dare adress him in such a harried manner. "Well, don't just stand there private. What's the report say?"

"Well sir," the private tugged at his uniform's collar, and beads of sweat began appearing on his forehead, "Apparently Baker company is KIA, due to some strafing runs by the enemy. Alpha and Bravo teams have managed to break the main line, but they suffered heavy losses. They have no vehicular capabilities right now, and are pinned down by a group of sniper. We'll need to send in Echo to re-enforce them, and have an airstrike take out the snipers. So far we've suffered two airborne MIA's. The planes were brought down, bombers both of them, but the crews managed to bail out. Alpha and Bravo are going to be passing by their locations soon enough, so they should be able to give us a more full report."


And then, depending on the situation you could post about other encounters, some Navy skirmishes, anything that comes to mind really. You could also post causalties in a single squad, if you don't have many, by different means. Say, having the company get get shot at, or something that would cause injury, and then having the character you are controlling discover who's alive, who isn't, ect...

In any case, I think that ICly posting your losses takes a little more skill and imagination, then OOCly posting them. It can also make for some interesting plot and character development scenario's, by having your General talk strategy with some of his other commanders, or by having a field trooper go beserk and suicide bomb a tank or something.
Last edited by Malikov on Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Between the crosses row on row
That mark our place, and in the sky
The larks still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below...

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Postby Verzia » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:29 am

great job!

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Postby Clamparapa » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:53 am

This needs to be stickied! Great job Ozymos! I am one of those people who focuses more on the story and less on the technology aspect. I'll go into more detail about characters as individuals instead of them as a group. So when it comes time to post casualties, it'll be more detailed and gory. I definitely try to keep it PG-13, but sometimes the heat of the moment and those creative juices get the better of me. I haven't been in a lot of wars here in the NS boards, but in my home region, we used to have some excellent battles. The reason for this wasn't just good story-telling; it also had to do with the amount of casualties people took. They were realistic and helped the flow of the battle.

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Techno-Soviet
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Ex-Nation

Postby Techno-Soviet » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:07 pm

I recall seeing a thread like this much, much earlier.
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Postby Ozymos » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:10 pm

Techno-Soviet wrote:I recall seeing a thread like this much, much earlier.


'Fraid I didn't know that when I wrote this.
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Postby Techno-Soviet » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:13 pm

Ozymos wrote:
Techno-Soviet wrote:I recall seeing a thread like this much, much earlier.


'Fraid I didn't know that when I wrote this.


Not a problem, this is a good one as well, since i can't remember the name or author of the other thread (venturing a guess I think it was Questers, Leistung or Third Spanish States), I was just having a moment of deja vu.

Anyways, this should be either stickied or merged with another sticky, and perhaps it could be expanded on with more scenarios showing the basic rates of casualties to expect during said scenario. (i.e. charging a machine gun nest in the open while under artillery fire is suicide, flanking attacks by infantry through a nearby forest with armour attacking from the front, &c.)
Last edited by Techno-Soviet on Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Solar Communes » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:42 pm

Depends upon which sort of tactics you resort to.

Some will naturally bring greater casualties and defeat.

Do your own research into real tactics and strategies rather than going "ZERG RUSH KEKEKE ^_^" or ripping off 99% of real-time strategy games which are totally unrealistic(or just play Hearts of Iron 2, which give a good insight in grand strategy for a game). That's what you have to if you desire for your NS to ICly win battles more oftenly than losing, other than also making awesome and well written posts instead of rubbish(many RPers will factor your post quality when defining how successful you'd have been against their forces in a War RP), and like Sun Tzu said, know your enemy and think well before making one. A leader who isn't insane or stupid wouldn't risk biting more than what his NS military can chew. And this includes knowledge about alliances.
Last edited by Solar Communes on Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ozymos » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:47 am

Indeed. I'm afraid that I didn't quite have as much time as i'd hoped when I began writing it, and therefore had to bring some of it to a rather abrupt close. However, i'll be adding to it as things come to mind.
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Postby Malcastrineze » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:00 am

One thing I'd like to say when it comes to FT warships: Bigger is not always better. In fact, it's entirely possible that the smaller ship might actually be much more advanced than the larger one, due to the fact that as technology advances, it gets smaller. So you could have somebody's 9,001 kilometer super-dreadnought-of-doom getting its ass kicked by somebody's little fifty meter cruiser because it's so much more advanced. It's less about the size of the ship, or even the power relative to population (if you go by that rule) then it is about the technology you put on it.

Other than that, great job! I think it's especially true in FT that people try to avoid taking casualties with one piece of technology or another. Point is, it's not a war if stuff doesn't get blown up and people don't die.
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Postby Ozymos » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:17 am

Malcastrineze wrote:One thing I'd like to say when it comes to FT warships: Bigger is not always better. In fact, it's entirely possible that the smaller ship might actually be much more advanced than the larger one, due to the fact that as technology advances, it gets smaller. So you could have somebody's 9,001 kilometer super-dreadnought-of-doom getting its ass kicked by somebody's little fifty meter cruiser because it's so much more advanced. It's less about the size of the ship, or even the power relative to population (if you go by that rule) then it is about the technology you put on it.

Other than that, great job! I think it's especially true in FT that people try to avoid taking casualties with one piece of technology or another. Point is, it's not a war if stuff doesn't get blown up and people don't die.


Aye, I did try to make it clear that ships in FT, much like FT itself, is not as clear-cut as MT due to the multitude of different technologies and styles. My 200 km ship was defeated ( ;)) by smaller ships in the Hyperborian War thread before I left it, because it was set upon by much more technologically advanced ships.

On that note, I reckon a section on what to do about people not taking casualties would be a good idea.
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Postby Russenich » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:26 am

For some of the worst rp'ing in history just type volringiansteinholschigutten for how not to rp.

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Postby Solar Communes » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:31 am

Ozymos wrote:On that note, I reckon a section on what to do about people not taking casualties would be a good idea.


ICly, Solar Communes biggest spacecrafts(read: "coreships") have a super-weapon: a huge and very fast missile with a FT version of the Large Hadron Collider built inside it that generates a black hole when hitting or nearing a target, used against those who claim to have indestructible spacecrafts. However, it's OOCly a first warning prior to the IGNORE Supermassive Black Hole Cannon and so far I never really found the necessity to use it(ICly it was used only once, and to stop a sort of stellar disaster rather than against an enemy spacecraft), which will be used if the other NS still insist on godmodding and uberwanking an indestructible spacecraft.

No quarter for godmodders, that's how you should do it. FT is already tolerant to heavy wankage, but there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.
Last edited by Solar Communes on Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ozymos » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:29 am

Bumpity. Included the excellent piece on Economies, Army Sizes and Nukes that Lynion wrote for me. Thanks Lynion! :)
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Postby Olthenia » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:11 pm

Sticky this. Now.

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Ex-Nation

Postby N3wgr0unds » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:32 pm

StIcky this now! :clap:
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Postby Euroslavia » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:43 pm

Ozymos wrote:Indeed. I'm afraid that I didn't quite have as much time as i'd hoped when I began writing it, and therefore had to bring some of it to a rather abrupt close. However, i'll be adding to it as things come to mind.


I definitely enjoyed looking through this. I'm going to sticky it for now, and hopefully address some points later on (when I'm feeling a bit better!).
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Ex-Nation

Postby Jenrak » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:45 pm

Very nice, Oz! A definite read-through for anyone who is not familiar with taking losses.

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Ex-Nation

Postby karvoco » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:57 am

i agree completely

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