NATION

PASSWORD

Tiandi Big Discussion Thread

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]

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Roden1
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Founded: Jan 10, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Roden1 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:30 am

I'm gonna avoid the question about governability, since my current schedule kind of prevents me from RPing too much so it's not like I have much to contribute. However, I did have some observations regarding Christianity in Tiandi.

I understand that this is a region where East Asia is the centre of the world network and that the distance between its "Europe" and its "NAME" regions is more considerable than in our own world. As a result I was wondering how Christianity might evolve. I don't think that real life's division between Catholicism, Protestantism and Orthodoxy makes sense in Tiandi and I'd hope it's not used. Protestantism and Orthodoxy to a larger degree are the result of very specific clerico-political conflicts over issues that were more political than theological in nature. The division between WRE and ERE and later between the Romano-Germanic West and the Byzantium resulted in the development of two parallel politicul culture, one where the primacy of Rome was the norm and one where there were several patriarchs who were all subordinate to the Emperor. This won't happen. And much less with Protestantism, which surged from the humanistic Catholicism of Erasmus and its denounce of the Roman corruption and political intrigues. Nor does it make too much sense, imho, to have several Popes, the conditions for an Avignon papacy may not exist in Tiandi.

So, what I was thinking is that we could have a more 'Islamic', if you will, division of Christianity. Because it doesn't make sense to have just one single interpretation, that is simply not the case for any Abrahamic religion. Why Islamic? Because I was thinking of inspiring the division on the much deeper theological issues over the nature of God and the nature of Christ that domination theological debates from the 4th century until the Muslim invasions of the Levant and North Africa. These divisions, like those between Sunni and Shiites and others, will be much deeper than those that separate our Christianity, since they are based on different criteria on a very, very thorny issue, the very nature of the Messiah.

So I was thinking of a triple division between Chalcedonians (so basically Catholics and Orthodoxy in RL, perhaps with various patriarchs, like one per country?) that believes in the Holy Trinity and the nature of Christ was two, human and divine in one person, conceived by Mary. Then there is Monophysitism, which believes that Christ only had one nature, which was either solely divine (extremist position) or both human and divine (more moderate position) as Christ's human nature was absorbed by its divine one. Lastly we could also have Nestorianism. It argues the opposite, stressing the clear-cut distinction between the human Jesus and the divine Logos/Theotokos, and being generally accused of stressing more the human than the divine nature. And we can always include Arianism I suppose.

In any case, based on their very different Christological positions, the churches could evolve in different paths resulting, over time, in much more differentiated theological positions, as well as a certain degree of animosity amongst them.

In our own world, Chalcedonians dominated in Europe and in what we call nowadays the Maghreb, whereas Monophysites were the majority in pre-Islamic Egypt and parts of the Levant, and Nestorians were important in the so-called Assyrian churches, that is, in the eastern fringes of Byzantium, and had spread (considerably) into Persia as well as Arabia and reaching as far as communities in Central Asia but also in India.

I was wondering how that could work out in Tiandi, that is to say, which areas of Tiandi are/were Christians and how they would be split. I would imagine that Roden, Cosenza as well as Friskland and Banba, based on their geographical location and the association between Italy and Cosenza make more sense as Chalcedonian areas, but I don't know how to divide up the rest, especially since I'm not sure as to which parts of Gungju or other continents are Christian.

Btw, on the question of how to have a more bellicose Christian faith with their own fundamentalists, i saw a few posts back call them Crusaders. It's not a bad name, but personally I prefer the term Soldiers of Christ. Sounds more awesome, and less of a rip off.

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ArUmdAUM
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Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:33 pm

Haeseon brought up hate groups on irc and his mentioning of yellow hooded robes made me think for a while regarding race in Tiandi.

I think for certain we should have had pseudoscience regarding race and "scientific racism" during the high stages of Sinju imperialism. In regards to how people look, I don't think people from Sinju would ever have called themselves yellow, because East Asians are not at all yellow. And no, don't try to dispute this point.

Sinju is complicated as it stretches highly from north to south - from up in the Arctic Circle down into the Tropics. There would be a wide range of skin complexions and tones, even within a country, with farmers often being very tan from constant outdoor work, while those who spent most of their time indoors would have lighter skin. Attempts to define "race" would probably be strongest in a period where most of Sinju has recently shifted to industrial, manufacturing based economies with fairly large middle classes. Those attempting to define this would most likely mingle with the educated upper-middle and upper classes.

However, perhaps that isn't so important? After all, there is a fairly wide range of skin complexions among those considered "white" IRL as well, and those who aren't considered "white" often have much lighter skin complexions than those who are.

I thought that perhaps back during this period, people from the Center would have attempted to give races color names beyond just skin complexion. Perhaps East Asians would indeed have been the "yellow race" if someone like the Yellow Emperor was also present in Tianqian mythology, and yellow continued to be a color associated with imperial lines. However, this may become problematic if non-Sinic states such as Jeongmi and Fusen try to distance themselves from Tianqi and create their own unique national myth with the rise of nationalism and the idea of self-determination for different ethnic and linguistic groups. Perhaps there could be separate Jeongmic, Fusenic, and Tianqic races, or they could have been considered branches of a greater "yellow race."

But people and society can attempt to reconcile or choose to ignore contradictions in thought.

White people could be the "red race," as they were often referred to as "red barbarians" in China, Japan, and Korea due to the fact that some European sailors had red hair. "Red people" wouldn't correspond exactly to how "white people" is viewed in the United States today (generally doesn't include Middle Easterners or often Latinxs who are white-passing), as Tiandi does not have the same social structure of Earth. People from Sinju, who would be the ones attempting to define races, would not care about things like religious differences which are often the difference between being white or not (Armenians often considered white but Turks are not). Thus Middle Easterners and North Indians would probably be included in definitions of "red people."
Last edited by ArUmdAUM on Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ArUmdAUM
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:55 pm

Roden1 wrote:I'm gonna avoid the question about governability, since my current schedule kind of prevents me from RPing too much so it's not like I have much to contribute. However, I did have some observations regarding Christianity in Tiandi.

I understand that this is a region where East Asia is the centre of the world network and that the distance between its "Europe" and its "NAME" regions is more considerable than in our own world. As a result I was wondering how Christianity might evolve. I don't think that real life's division between Catholicism, Protestantism and Orthodoxy makes sense in Tiandi and I'd hope it's not used. Protestantism and Orthodoxy to a larger degree are the result of very specific clerico-political conflicts over issues that were more political than theological in nature. The division between WRE and ERE and later between the Romano-Germanic West and the Byzantium resulted in the development of two parallel politicul culture, one where the primacy of Rome was the norm and one where there were several patriarchs who were all subordinate to the Emperor. This won't happen. And much less with Protestantism, which surged from the humanistic Catholicism of Erasmus and its denounce of the Roman corruption and political intrigues. Nor does it make too much sense, imho, to have several Popes, the conditions for an Avignon papacy may not exist in Tiandi.

So, what I was thinking is that we could have a more 'Islamic', if you will, division of Christianity. Because it doesn't make sense to have just one single interpretation, that is simply not the case for any Abrahamic religion. Why Islamic? Because I was thinking of inspiring the division on the much deeper theological issues over the nature of God and the nature of Christ that domination theological debates from the 4th century until the Muslim invasions of the Levant and North Africa. These divisions, like those between Sunni and Shiites and others, will be much deeper than those that separate our Christianity, since they are based on different criteria on a very, very thorny issue, the very nature of the Messiah.

So I was thinking of a triple division between Chalcedonians (so basically Catholics and Orthodoxy in RL, perhaps with various patriarchs, like one per country?) that believes in the Holy Trinity and the nature of Christ was two, human and divine in one person, conceived by Mary. Then there is Monophysitism, which believes that Christ only had one nature, which was either solely divine (extremist position) or both human and divine (more moderate position) as Christ's human nature was absorbed by its divine one. Lastly we could also have Nestorianism. It argues the opposite, stressing the clear-cut distinction between the human Jesus and the divine Logos/Theotokos, and being generally accused of stressing more the human than the divine nature. And we can always include Arianism I suppose.

In any case, based on their very different Christological positions, the churches could evolve in different paths resulting, over time, in much more differentiated theological positions, as well as a certain degree of animosity amongst them.

In our own world, Chalcedonians dominated in Europe and in what we call nowadays the Maghreb, whereas Monophysites were the majority in pre-Islamic Egypt and parts of the Levant, and Nestorians were important in the so-called Assyrian churches, that is, in the eastern fringes of Byzantium, and had spread (considerably) into Persia as well as Arabia and reaching as far as communities in Central Asia but also in India.

I was wondering how that could work out in Tiandi, that is to say, which areas of Tiandi are/were Christians and how they would be split. I would imagine that Roden, Cosenza as well as Friskland and Banba, based on their geographical location and the association between Italy and Cosenza make more sense as Chalcedonian areas, but I don't know how to divide up the rest, especially since I'm not sure as to which parts of Gungju or other continents are Christian.

Btw, on the question of how to have a more bellicose Christian faith with their own fundamentalists, i saw a few posts back call them Crusaders. It's not a bad name, but personally I prefer the term Soldiers of Christ. Sounds more awesome, and less of a rip off.

Ack, forgot about this! Took a long vacation...

I agree that the real life divisions between Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox Christianity don't make sense in Tiandi and I would really encourage that people not use them. I really think that religious divisions within Christianity based on the very nature of the Christ would be very interesting. The divisions present in early Christianity are pretty fascinating and I would love to learn more about them.

I also think that we'll have to alter Christianity a bit in order to transplant it from RL to Tiandi. I think Ancient Cosenza could have had something like the Roman Empire, stretching across most of Zalland as well? We could have had minor Semitic groups along Ancient Zalland's eastern coast, sort of like Phoenicians, speaking things like Aramaic or Biblical Hebrew.

Haha, yeah, the crusaders thing is sort of a parody on how jihadists is used in the West (or America, at least), since in the modern day it's often used in a positive context such as "crusader for peace" or "crusading for justice," while "jihad" is often used in Arabic for overcoming a struggle or persevering to be a better person or Muslim but it is only known in the context of waging holy war to those outside the Middle East.
Last edited by ArUmdAUM on Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Intermountain States
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Founded: Oct 12, 2014
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Intermountain States » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:28 pm

Arumdaum wrote:
Roden1 wrote:I'm gonna avoid the question about governability, since my current schedule kind of prevents me from RPing too much so it's not like I have much to contribute. However, I did have some observations regarding Christianity in Tiandi.

I understand that this is a region where East Asia is the centre of the world network and that the distance between its "Europe" and its "NAME" regions is more considerable than in our own world. As a result I was wondering how Christianity might evolve. I don't think that real life's division between Catholicism, Protestantism and Orthodoxy makes sense in Tiandi and I'd hope it's not used. Protestantism and Orthodoxy to a larger degree are the result of very specific clerico-political conflicts over issues that were more political than theological in nature. The division between WRE and ERE and later between the Romano-Germanic West and the Byzantium resulted in the development of two parallel politicul culture, one where the primacy of Rome was the norm and one where there were several patriarchs who were all subordinate to the Emperor. This won't happen. And much less with Protestantism, which surged from the humanistic Catholicism of Erasmus and its denounce of the Roman corruption and political intrigues. Nor does it make too much sense, imho, to have several Popes, the conditions for an Avignon papacy may not exist in Tiandi.

So, what I was thinking is that we could have a more 'Islamic', if you will, division of Christianity. Because it doesn't make sense to have just one single interpretation, that is simply not the case for any Abrahamic religion. Why Islamic? Because I was thinking of inspiring the division on the much deeper theological issues over the nature of God and the nature of Christ that domination theological debates from the 4th century until the Muslim invasions of the Levant and North Africa. These divisions, like those between Sunni and Shiites and others, will be much deeper than those that separate our Christianity, since they are based on different criteria on a very, very thorny issue, the very nature of the Messiah.

So I was thinking of a triple division between Chalcedonians (so basically Catholics and Orthodoxy in RL, perhaps with various patriarchs, like one per country?) that believes in the Holy Trinity and the nature of Christ was two, human and divine in one person, conceived by Mary. Then there is Monophysitism, which believes that Christ only had one nature, which was either solely divine (extremist position) or both human and divine (more moderate position) as Christ's human nature was absorbed by its divine one. Lastly we could also have Nestorianism. It argues the opposite, stressing the clear-cut distinction between the human Jesus and the divine Logos/Theotokos, and being generally accused of stressing more the human than the divine nature. And we can always include Arianism I suppose.

In any case, based on their very different Christological positions, the churches could evolve in different paths resulting, over time, in much more differentiated theological positions, as well as a certain degree of animosity amongst them.

In our own world, Chalcedonians dominated in Europe and in what we call nowadays the Maghreb, whereas Monophysites were the majority in pre-Islamic Egypt and parts of the Levant, and Nestorians were important in the so-called Assyrian churches, that is, in the eastern fringes of Byzantium, and had spread (considerably) into Persia as well as Arabia and reaching as far as communities in Central Asia but also in India.

I was wondering how that could work out in Tiandi, that is to say, which areas of Tiandi are/were Christians and how they would be split. I would imagine that Roden, Cosenza as well as Friskland and Banba, based on their geographical location and the association between Italy and Cosenza make more sense as Chalcedonian areas, but I don't know how to divide up the rest, especially since I'm not sure as to which parts of Gungju or other continents are Christian.

Btw, on the question of how to have a more bellicose Christian faith with their own fundamentalists, i saw a few posts back call them Crusaders. It's not a bad name, but personally I prefer the term Soldiers of Christ. Sounds more awesome, and less of a rip off.

Ack, forgot about this! Took a long vacation...

I agree that the real life divisions between Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox Christianity don't make sense in Tiandi and I would really encourage that people not use them. I really think that religious divisions within Christianity based on the very nature of the Christ would be very interesting. The divisions present in early Christianity are pretty fascinating and I would love to learn more them.

I also think that we'll have to alter Christianity a bit in order to transplant it from RL to Tiandi. I think Ancient Cosenza could have had something like the Roman Empire, stretching across most of Zalland as well? We could have had minor Semitic groups along Ancient Zalland's eastern coast, sort of like Phoenicians, speaking things like Aramaic or Biblical Hebrew.

Haha, yeah, the crusaders thing is sort of a parody on how jihadists is used in the West (or America, at least), since in the modern day it's often used in a positive context such as "crusader for peace" or "crusading for justice," while "jihad" is often used in Arabic for overcoming a struggle or persevering to be a better person or Muslim but it is only known in the context of waging holy war to those outside the Middle East.

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ArUmdAUM
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:54 pm

Intermountain States wrote:There should be an extremist military called the Salvation Army

lol this would be funny
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Ban Pho
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Founded: Aug 20, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Ban Pho » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:33 am

Seeing as the oceanian area looks quite empty, I am willing to add an oceanian nation, and you may see an app from me very soon. I will also establish an IIWiki page for that nation.
Last edited by Ban Pho on Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ArUmdAUM
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Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:20 am

Ban Pho wrote:Seeing as the oceanian area looks quite empty, I am willing to add an oceanian nation, and you may see an app from me very soon. I will also establish an IIWiki page for that nation.

Yeah, it seems interesting! What were your ideas regarding civil war?

I think the name could also be changed, haha. It's sort of weird how the nation's name is in Mandarin, when the colonizer uses Cantonese and the world's lingua franca is Korean. What did you get the name from?
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Sabara
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sabara » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:17 pm

hey guys

we should all go on irc some weekend
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Ban Pho
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Founded: Aug 20, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Ban Pho » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:01 am

ArUmdAUM wrote:
Ban Pho wrote:Seeing as the oceanian area looks quite empty, I am willing to add an oceanian nation, and you may see an app from me very soon. I will also establish an IIWiki page for that nation.

Yeah, it seems interesting! What were your ideas regarding civil war?

I think the name could also be changed, haha. It's sort of weird how the nation's name is in Mandarin, when the colonizer uses Cantonese and the world's lingua franca is Korean. What did you get the name from?

I'm creative enough to use this. XD

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Toishima
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Toishima » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:31 pm

YOU NEVER SAW IT COMING

THE NEW

THE IMPROVED

THE GREAT EMPIRE OF AKITSUKUNI

RETURNS

COMING SOON TO A THEATRE NEAR YOU


Basic characteristics
Modernising State, RIsing/Developing Economy, Competitive against Sinju, Right-Wing democracy, Constitutional Monarchy, seemingly a theocracy, income inequality. "Leader of the Third World".

Land Claim
Image

PLUS KVENARA.

History so far

The Beō, Ti Sqa, Sahaptin and other native ethnic groups have inhabited what is now mainland Akitsukuni since antiquity, with the Beō culture largely originating from the island of Akitsukuni. Jungjun colonisation began in the 16th century, led by Fusen. Akitsukuni Island was initially settled through penal transportation and exile of Fusenese political prisoners, while two colonies were established on the Sadamisaki peninsula for the bountiful local resources. The populations steadily grew over the subsequent decades and by the 1760s most of the region had been explored and an additional five colonies had been established in the area. Numerous disputes between Fusen and the colonies resulted in the Akitsukunese Revolution, aided by Meisaan, which began in 1762 and ended in 1782 when Fusen recognised the newly-formed Republic of Akitsukuni and Sadamisaki as an independent nation.

The newly-independent nation embarked on a vigorous expansion into the interior of Uju throughout the 19th century, displacing and exterminating local native populations, acquiring new territories, and gradually forming new prefectures until it reached a size roughly identical to its modern borders in 1840. The Akitsukunese Civil War resulted in the establishment of the Empire of Akitsukuni and Sadamisaki, the installation of the Akitsukunese monarchy and the instating of the Imperial Shrine religion as the state religion in 1848, marking a new stage in the development of modern Akitsukuni. Rapidly modernising in a bid to compete on equal footing with the colonial nations, the Empire's victory in the June War of 1890 confirmed its status as a new world power. Finally reforming into the Greater Empire of Akitsukuni, the Empire embarked on a path of increased militarism, nationalism and expansionism that culminated in the Uju War and the Uju Genocide, which expanded into a part of the Eulhae War that ended with an armistice. A violent coup by Nariakira Okabe in 1949 resulted in reforms made to the government to open up Akitsukunese industry and trade to the world, but laid the groundwork for a recurring cycle of civilian and military governments that only ended in 1991, after which the country underwent major political and economic reform and modernisation, emerging a major global economic and military power, and one of the major regional powers in Uju by the mid-2000s.

THE DISCUSSION on 160417

[10:33] <Arumdaum> it might be better for you to be more removed though, the further away the easier it is to break away and develop a separate identity
[10:35] <Izanami_no_Mikoto> No I mean being in competition to Sinju and doing controversial stuff while being right next door
[10:37] <Izanami_no_Mikoto> I'm not sure what you mean by a separate identity? Akitsukuni is going to still be a right-wing largely Japonic state though with a weird modern religion and monarchy in place.
[10:39] <Arumdaum> in terms of separate identity I mostly mean they don't see themselves as Fusenese, like not the same people and culture and stuff as what's going on in Fusen, even if Akitsukuni is mostly made up of descendants from Fusenese colonists, but yeah you can try doing controversial stuff
[10:40] <Izanami_no_Mikoto> Hmm, Could such attitudes be forced through seperatistic nationalist propaganda over several decades? What I'm trying to set up is also the idea of Fusense Supremacy especially before the 1945 period. As in ethnically the people still identify as Fusenese, but socially/politically identify as Akitsukunese
[10:44] <Arumdaum> but prior to eulhae wdym by fusenese supremacy; late 1800s early 1900s i have fusen trying to take over all fusenic nations. maybe not exactly take over but like trying to unite japonic nations in sinju
[10:46] <Izanami_no_Mikoto> I may have to change stuff somewhat, but what I meant was basically genociding the natives in the area due to the superiority of the Fusense race, After the racist religious fanatics won the Civil War in the mid-1800s. I also have a Spanish-American War type thing happening in the 1890s where Akitsukuni wins against something; could this be tied to the Fusenese Unification thing and lead further to the great social/political divide between Akitsukuni and Fusen? This is to lead up to their participation in the WW2-type event where they attempt to conquere Uju and wipe out the natives entirely and is largely disconnected from the rest of the war, like Europe and the Pacific in WW2
[10:49] <Arumdaum> would there be a great sociopolitical divide prior to fusen transforming post-eulhae?
[10:51] <Izanami_no_Mikoto> Possibly from the start; I've tried to explain this by having Akitsukuni be a penal colony and exile ground for your Shogun to send political exiles away
[10:52] <Izanami_no_Mikoto> After the Civil War things would get even more divided since religious fanatics take over the state
[10:53] <Arumdaum> I think initially Fusenese people in Akitsukuni would see themselves as Fusenese because they are surrounded by natives, also they would want protection from other colonial powers like Jeongmi or sab
[10:54] <Izanami_no_Mikoto> Yeah, Sab said he'd support my revolution
[10:55] <Arumdaum> maybe I can overtax you guys lol, allow highest posts to only be filled by those born in fusen. restrict certain settlements into certain areas
[10:56] <Izanami_no_Mikoto> There would also be the thing about a lot of them being political exiles, Not to mention the burgeoning monarchist cult exiled from Fusen and now essentially being free to run around causing trouble haha. Political exiles would have the know-how to forment a revolutionary movement, wouldn't they?
[10:57] <Arumdaum> most people would probably be those moving to escape poverty and get free land in akitsukuni
[10:59] <Izanami_no_Mikoto> What I have so far is that Akitsukuni Island and the mainland portion were different colonies, with Akitsukuni Island having the original penal colonies and be where the revolution begins, Eventually spreading to the mainland and merging both with the assistance of Sab. Then they go roaming the continent, displacing natives and such. When does the Fusense attempt to take over all Fusenese states begin?
[11:02] <Arumdaum> late 1800s
[11:02] <Izanami_no_Mikoto> One of the causes of my civil war is that a faction wished to get closer to or join Fusen for some reason, but it's in I think 1840s. Maybe completely unrelated movement then haha
[11:03] <Arumdaum> brb
Last edited by Toishima on Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ArUmdAUM
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Posts: 23904
Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:41 pm

Would anyone be interested in an Earth project for Tiandi?
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Daeseong
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Jun 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Daeseong » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:30 am

ArUmdAUM wrote:Would anyone be interested in an Earth project for Tiandi?

Earth Project - Map Proposal

Above lies a map with the various Chinese nation plots (sorry, China is not going to be one big country fellas), Korea, Manchus, Japan, and various Tungstic groups. Arum and I discussed the relative role of the various nations. The Chinese sub-states, Korea, Vietnam, and Japan will take the place of first world countries (GDPPC nominal of 40,000 +). The Tungstic Rim (Dzungars, Mongols, Siberian peoples, Ainu) will roughly take the place of IRL Slavs due to lack of coast, largely nomadic warrior histories (and communism??) and will have GPPPC of 10-19k. Thailand will also fall here, acting as a Turkey of sorts.

Southeast Asia and India will probably serve as Africa and the Middle East broadly, being the most logical colonial expansions, being brutally colonized and poor. Singapore might be an exception. Australia should be one of more settler colonies, and America should be a Creole of settlers and Native peoples. That's all we have so far.

In addition to Earth Project, we're thinking of allowing RMB-RPing or really simple forum RP (a few paragraphs?) for this Earth canon. Of course, worldbuilding the original Tiandi map will be the major focus, but the earth map will let us RP and have a good time even when busy. That is, the Earth Project will not be in the region necessarily and be open - but those in the RP would be encouraged to move to Tiandi.
Last edited by Daeseong on Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ArUmdAUM
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Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:14 am

POD 907 CE

some basic shit: balhae doesnt fall, china stays divided

907 - Tang breaks, China stays divided
938 - Vietnam independent
~1100s-1200s - industrialization?
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Daeseong
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Jun 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Daeseong » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:24 pm

ArUmdAUM wrote:POD 907 CE

some basic shit: balhae doesnt fall, china stays divided

907 - Tang breaks, China stays divided
938 - Vietnam independent
~1100s-1200s - industrialization?

Nice timeline!

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Daeseong
Diplomat
 
Posts: 512
Founded: Jun 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

My Proposed Timeline

Postby Daeseong » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:07 pm

Daeseong wrote:
ArUmdAUM wrote:Would anyone be interested in an Earth project for Tiandi?

Earth Project - Map Proposal

Above lies a map with the various Chinese nation plots (sorry, China is not going to be one big country fellas), Korea, Manchus, Japan, and various Tungstic groups. Arum and I discussed the relative role of the various nations. The Chinese sub-states, Korea, Vietnam, and Japan will take the place of first world countries (GDPPC nominal of 40,000 +). The Tungstic Rim (Dzungars, Mongols, Siberian peoples, Ainu) will roughly take the place of IRL Slavs due to lack of coast, largely nomadic warrior histories (and communism??) and will have GPPPC of 10-19k. Thailand will also fall here, acting as a Turkey of sorts.

Southeast Asia and India will probably serve as Africa and the Middle East broadly, being the most logical colonial expansions, being brutally colonized and poor. Singapore might be an exception. Australia should be one of more settler colonies, and America should be a Creole of settlers and Native peoples. That's all we have so far.

In addition to Earth Project, we're thinking of allowing RMB-RPing or really simple forum RP (a few paragraphs?) for this Earth canon. Of course, worldbuilding the original Tiandi map will be the major focus, but the earth map will let us RP and have a good time even when busy. That is, the Earth Project will not be in the region necessarily and be open - but those in the RP would be encouraged to move to Tiandi.





755-763 AD - An Lushan Rebellion carries on as before. However...
  • Gunpowder comes into far earlier use than OTL, used in all sorts of rudimentary flaming weapons, with the proliferation of hand-cannons a century earlier.
  • Such weapons shift the traditional sociology-military balance of power by rendering the Tang's traditional Turkic cavalry obsolete. They were also, however, dangerous and required mercenary soldiers - therefore reducing reliance on peasant armies and more-so on hired guns. An Lushan's Turkish horsemen are unable to challenge the new weapons and are even more soundly defeated at the battle of Battle of Yongqiu to the extent that his army is unable to ever recover.
  • The war's ephemeral ensures that the whole-scale slaughter of local landlords and officials never occurs, allowing their power to start approaching that of the centralized merit-based bureaucracy, especially that these lords can now hire professional mercenaries with gunpower weapons.
907 AD - the Tang Dynasty collapses and devolves into the Warring States Era. However:
  • Local lords - with private armies - are now better prepared to step into the power vacuum, and these armies are more effective and expensive than before.
  • Various military decisions change such that reunification by force is now a much bloodier prospect. Mercenaries begin pillaging and raping cities en masse upon capture (to pay for their services) and therefore such warfare becomes entirely unsustainable.
  • The Song might take power, but eventually acquiesce to a late Zhou style diffusion of power to local lords to accomplish this, and are never able to quite achieve the centralization of earlier dynasties like the Qing.
1163 AD - a Mongolian Warrior by the name Chinggis Khan is killed by an arrow to the eye during his attempt to rescue his wife, Borte.

1347 AD - the Black Plague is tracked into Europe via Genoese trade galleys as OTL. However, a new mutation of the disease emerges in the Balkans and begins to spread which is slightly more communicative and twice as lethal. Though Europe does not face societal collapse, almost 60% of the continent's population is wiped out.
  • Though also affected, the Moors capitalize on the vulnerability of Europe - porting in Sudanese and Egyptian Jihadis and mercenaries - to violently tear a path throughout western Europe while the East is similarly dominated by Hunnic and Tatar invasions. These add to the devastation of Europe.
1400 AD - 1500 AD - by this point, the Song has essentially evaporated, with an official seat of power in Kaifeng, but little else.
  • Each individual region of Chinese has cultivated a unique cultural and national identity
  • Korea, disgusted by the decline of the Confucian system in China, has broken off from the Chinese sphere of influence, instead purporting itself as the last state to uphold proper Confucian heritage and tradition.
  • Japan really isn't doing much differently than OTL. The Sengoku Jidai, precipitated by few happenings elsewhere anyhow, occurs as OTL.
  • Competition between the South Chinese states and the Black Death (still occurring in China if less virulent than in the West) drives court tinkerers in the Canto state to develop a rudimentary steam engine. This invention is initially not seen for its full potential and takes until the 18th century to come into mainstream use.
1500 AD- 1700 AD - history has changed substantially at this point. These include:
  • The Kingdoms in south China - unable to conquer each other - eventually begin looking towards Southeast Asia for expansion and resources, building trading posts and empowering merchants to extract resources from Indonesia, the Philippines, and the Malay Peninsula.
  • Coal and Iron rich Korea, Manchuria, and Mongolia remain backwaters for the time being, and Japan is still undergoing civil war.
  • Each kingdom has developed its own Confucian style of Confucian bureaucracy, each Emperor claiming his own Mandate of Heaven. The notion of a unified China still exists, but the balance of power between states and advances in economic power and weaponry prevent unification.
1700 AD-1800 AD - By this point the merchants of south China have become enormously wealthy through trade with Southeast Asia Sultans. They begin to overthrow the established Confucian hierarchy as local landed gentry go into debt and decline in power.
  • Steam power is finally operationalized. Manchuria, Mongolia, and Korea, previously held back, are now able to rapidly catch up to the south Chinese and even surpass them with massive domestic coal and iron reserves.
  • Panicked, the south Chinese states resort to military action and violence against their former clients and trade partners to secure coal resources. Australia sees a slew of military expeditions, and the indigenous people are obliterated.
  • Further weapons advances and the continued domination of Europe by hostile foreign Emperors keeps it from participating in the great game. Asian countries scramble for the islands of Southeast Asia, then moving westwards towards India, then Iran, and eventually the east coast of Africa.
  • San Francisco bay (Chinese: 旧金山, or Old Gold Mountain) becomes the hub for mass immigration from China - which is now overcrowded, especially in the South where the Pearl River Delta and medical advances have resulted in huge population boons.
  • Japan might start uniting at this point, but is frankly too late to participate overtly in the colonial game. Alaska and Siberia might be colonized by Korea and Manchuria, allowing them to establish land Empires. The Mongols move through central Asia, and eventually colonize some Slavic peoples.
Last edited by Daeseong on Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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ArUmdAUM
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Posts: 23904
Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:09 pm

907 CE

- The Tang, already weak, finally collapse.
- The new kingdoms, many of them already de-facto independent by the time of the collapse, have difficulty conquering each other.
- The development of gunpowder weapons is sped up due to the constant wars between the new kingdoms.
- Balhae successfully resists Khitan takeover in 926.

From this point onward, it's difficult to say what would happen without restricting what people would want for their nations.

Also, as time passes, virtually everything would change.

- None of the same people would be born after a while, especially in areas affected by timeline changes
- Diseases would be different

no need for song imo
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Daeseong
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Ex-Nation

Revised Timeline Proposal

Postby Daeseong » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:59 pm

Daeseong wrote:
ArUmdAUM wrote:Would anyone be interested in an Earth project for Tiandi?

Earth Project - Map Proposal

Above lies a map with the various Chinese nation plots (sorry, China is not going to be one big country fellas), Korea, Manchus, Japan, and various Tungstic groups. Arum and I discussed the relative role of the various nations. The Chinese sub-states, Korea, Vietnam, and Japan will take the place of first world countries (GDPPC nominal of 40,000 +). The Tungstic Rim (Dzungars, Mongols, Siberian peoples, Ainu) will roughly take the place of IRL Slavs due to lack of coast, largely nomadic warrior histories (and communism??) and will have GPPPC of 10-19k. Thailand will also fall here, acting as a Turkey of sorts.

Southeast Asia and India will probably serve as Africa and the Middle East broadly, being the most logical colonial expansions, being brutally colonized and poor. Singapore might be an exception. Australia should be one of more settler colonies, and America should be a Creole of settlers and Native peoples. That's all we have so far.

In addition to Earth Project, we're thinking of allowing RMB-RPing or really simple forum RP (a few paragraphs?) for this Earth canon. Of course, worldbuilding the original Tiandi map will be the major focus, but the earth map will let us RP and have a good time even when busy. That is, the Earth Project will not be in the region necessarily and be open - but those in the RP would be encouraged to move to Tiandi.


The year is 1620.

Yet here, English colonists are not settling down in Jamestown. One can see many ships making the route from the Philippines to Mexico, but they are not Spanish galleons. Japan sees peace, but not under the rule of daimyo and their samurai.

Also, no one believes it to be the year 1620.

The year is 4318. East Asian societies have developed for hundreds of years on the great continent of Fusang, the great steel beasts making their way across the Pacific are Chinese, and the samurai are but relics in Japan's long history. The main centers of power and wealth here are not in the Far West--they are instead in the Center.

Since the first massive clouds of smoke engulfed the cities of Bianjing and Hangzhou, the great nations of the Center expanded their influence to encompass the entire world, first through conquest (for all their valor, the mass charges of European knights proved no match for the devastating power of cannons and machine guns), and now through wealth and culture. This is a world in which the eminent teachings of Confucius, of the Buddha, of Laozi are not relegated to the Asian Cultures sections of duty bookshops but instead become the foundations of world civilization and take on a global presence. Where the merchants of Hangzhou, not Venice, traded in great ships and commanded immense wealth.

If the thought of exploring this history excites you, you are welcome to join us. This alternate history project, officially sponsored by the region of Tiandi, is open to all who find the prospect of a Sino-centric world fascinating. There is no obligation to join Tiandi or RP in its canon, though coming onto our discord and participating in this thread are required. We hope this will be more than an RP premise, but also a long-term world-building project. Therefore, this thread will be purposed as a general OOC for recruitment, general discussion, and as a hub for all potential P2TM RPs that emerge from this premise/canon.




https://i.imgur.com/D3ojVil.png

The nations in colors on the above map are potential 1st world imperial powers. If you're interested in playing a Chinese nation but don't know enough about local cultures - don't worry! Just do some quick research on the culture in question. You don't need to be an expert.



Historical Timeline

[Year 1] Reign of the Yellow Emperor and official start of Sinic civilization.

[3451 year of Wood Horse 甲午年 - 3459 year of Water Tiger 壬寅年] - (755-763 AD) - An Lushan Rebellion carries on as before. However...
  • Gunpowder comes into far earlier use than OTL, used in all sorts of rudimentary flaming weapons, with the proliferation of hand-cannons a century earlier.
  • Such weapons shift the traditional sociology-military balance of power by rendering the Tang's traditional Turkic cavalry obsolete. They were also, however, dangerous and required mercenary soldiers - therefore reducing reliance on peasant armies and more-so on hired guns. An Lushan's Turkish horsemen are unable to challenge the new weapons and are even more soundly defeated at the battle of Battle of Yongqiu to the extent that his army is unable to ever recover.
  • The war's ephemeral ensures that the whole-scale slaughter of local landlords and officials never occurs, allowing their power to start approaching that of the centralized merit-based bureaucracy, especially that these lords can now hire professional mercenaries with gunpower weapons.
[3603 year of the Fire Tiger 丙寅年] (907 AD) - the Tang Dynasty collapses and devolves into the Warring States Era. However:
  • Local lords - with private armies - are now better prepared to step into the power vacuum, and these armies are more effective and expensive than before.
  • Various military decisions change such that reunification by force is now a much bloodier prospect. Mercenaries begin pillaging and raping cities en masse upon capture (to pay for their services) and therefore such warfare becomes entirely unsustainable.
  • The development of gunpowder weapons is further developed up due to the constant wars between the new kingdoms / continued Dzungar/Turkic raids.
[3622 Year of Wood Rooster 乙酉年] - (926 AD) - Balhae successfully resists Khitan invasions, permitting the survival of an independent Korean kingdom in the modern-day Manchu region.

[3859 Year of Water Horse 壬午年] - (1163 AD) - a Mongolian Warrior by the name Chinggis Khan is killed by an arrow to the eye during his attempt to rescue his wife, Borte. And/or simply Chinggis never born. Either way, no Mongols.

[4043 Year the Fire Dog 丙戌年] - (1347 AD) - the Black Plague is tracked into Europe via Genoese trade galleys as OTL. However, a new mutation of the disease emerges in the Balkans and begins to spread which is slightly more communicative and twice as lethal. Though Europe does not face societal collapse, almost 60% of the continent's population is wiped out.
  • Though also affected, the Moors capitalize on the vulnerability of Europe - porting in Sudanese and Egyptian Jihadis and mercenaries - to violently tear a path throughout western Europe while the East is similarly dominated by Hunnic and Tatar invasions. These add to the devastation of Europe.
[3796 Year of the Earth Rabbit 己卯年 - 3996 Year of the Earth Pig 己亥年] - (1100 AD - 1300 AD) - by this point each individual region of China has cultivated a unique cultural and national identity
  • The Korean Kingdoms of Goryeo and Balhae, disgusted by the decline of the Confucian system in China, have likely broken off from the Chinese sphere of influence, instead purporting themselves as the last states to uphold proper Confucian heritage and tradition.
  • Japan has just entered the Samurai period at this time. However, Hokkaido is never colonized. Ainu are able to become sinicized and develop independently of Japan.
  • Competition between the South Chinese states and the Black Death (still occurring in China if less virulent than in the West) drives court tinkerers in the Canto state to develop a rudimentary steam engine. This invention is initially not seen for its full potential and takes until the 18th century to come into mainstream use.
[3997 Year of the Metal Rat 庚子年 - 4096 Year of the Earth Rabbit 己卯年 ] - (1300 AD- 1400 AD) - history has changed substantially at this point. These include:
  • The Kingdoms in south China - unable to conquer each other - eventually begin looking towards Southeast Asia for expansion and resources, building trading posts and empowering merchants to extract resources from Indonesia, the Philippines, and the Malay Peninsula.
  • Coal and Iron rich Korea, Manchuria, and Mongolia remain backwaters for the time being, and Japan is still undergoing civil war.
  • Each kingdom has developed its own Confucian style of Confucian bureaucracy, each Emperor claiming his own Mandate of Heaven. The notion of a unified China still exists, but the balance of power between states and advances in economic power and weaponry prevent unification.
  • By now, none of the figures born OTL in this period should be canon whatsoever due to butterflies. Please refrain from using figures from OTL for history past this point.
[4097 Year of the Metal Dragon 庚辰年 - 4196 Year of the Earth Goat 己未年] - (1400 AD-1500 AD) - By this point the merchants of south China have become enormously wealthy through trade with Southeast Asia Sultans. They begin to overthrow the established Confucian hierarchy as local landed gentry go into debt and decline in power. Also, steam technology and gunpowder have advanced faster than OTL due to the lack of need for technology transfers to Europe via the Silk road; most technologies that made Europe powerful had some iteration in Asia by this point OTL.
  • Steam power is finally operationalized. Manchuria, Mongolia, and Korea, previously held back, are now able to rapidly catch up to the south Chinese and even surpass them with massive domestic coal and iron reserves.
  • Panicked, the south Chinese states resort to military action and violence against their former clients and trade partners to secure coal resources. Australia sees a slew of military expeditions, and the indigenous people are obliterated.
  • Further weapons advances and the continued domination of Europe by hostile foreign Emperors keeps it from participating in the great game. Asian countries scramble for the islands of Southeast Asia, then moving westwards towards India, then Iran, and eventually the east coast of Africa.
  • San Francisco bay (Chinese: 旧金山, or Old Gold Mountain) becomes the hub for mass immigration from China - which is now overcrowded, especially in the South where the Pearl River Delta and medical advances have resulted in huge population boons.
  • Japan might start uniting at this point, but is frankly too late to participate overtly in the colonial game. Alaska and Siberia might be colonized by Korea and Manchuria, allowing them to establish land Empires. The Mongols move through central Asia, and eventually colonize some Slavic peoples.
[4197 Year of the Metal Monkey 庚申年 - 4296 Year of the Earth Pig 己亥年] - (1500 AD - 1600 AD) Asia should be mostly industrialized as per late 18th - early 19th century Europe.
  • Asia is industrialized or at least in the process of doing so, using steam power for textiles. China and Japan also had immense steel production by this point, so there is already ability to build massive industrial metal works.
  • Many regions of the world would still be largely feudal and primitive at this point before colonization. Particularly, Europe would be colonized into two or three major pan-ethnic states by various Sinic powers.
  • Weapons would be at 19th century western standards given longer experience in the East (since the 900s specifically) and hundreds years of experimentation.
[4297 Year of the Metal Rat 庚子年 - 4396 Year of the Earth Rabbit 己卯年] - (1600 AD -1700 AD) - probably have a lot of Asian imperialism. Asian countries might not necessarily colonize in the same way - i.e. the East Coast native Americans do survive - but the Asian countries nonetheless colonize most and do so in brutal fashion.
  • For OOC purposes, please avoid the "Meiji" style countries. There was after all only one Meiji OTL and Japan was uniquely prepared to undergo an industrial revolution. Exceptions can of course be made but avoid this if possible.
  • Especially European countries. It is our opinion that powerful European nations exists all throughout the NS world. There is no reason it necessarily must be so here as well.
  • History is vague but let's assume some major industrial and colonial fights. Maybe a major Great-War style event. But let's avoid IRL parallels. If a world world breaks out, the reasons should make sense in the context of this canon's history and etc.
[4397 Year of the Metal Dragon 庚辰年 - 4496 Year of the Earth Goat 己未年] 1700 AD -1800 AD - the world would be at MT levels of tech. The technology that develops might not necessarily be the same, nor in the same way. Asian cultures might make more progress in certain fields and less than others.
  • Individualism and capitalism have arisen in this canon. We've deemed that though Confucian background might create differences, it's not sufficient to resist economic changes. Asians can historically independently form representative governments, especially when increasingly powerful merchants begin to resent the Confucian system (in which they're at bottom.)
  • Buddhist individual enlightenment + Confucian work ethic/study habits will form the basis of industrial capitalism, therefore, though perhaps with slightly more family-based emphasis and a tendency towards conglomeration.
  • Confucian influences and notions of law/religion will still be present, but we want to avoid entirely absolute 1st world Mandate of Heaven countries.
  • No nations attempting to reunify China either...the notion of a united China has been dead for a millennium by this point.
  • Decolonization would have occurred or be in the process of doing so. Local bureaucracies would have been established in colonial nations, and local civil servants and/or local military officers might have had megalomaniac aspirations of crowning themselves as new heavenly emperors of their realms.
Last edited by Daeseong on Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 17 times in total.

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Daeseong
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Ex-Nation

For Applicants

Postby Daeseong » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:51 pm

General Comments for Applicants:
  • Multi-ethnic nations are acceptable and even encouraged... just not in East Asia. We're trying to seek a Sinic order of nationstates - or something approaching nationstates anyhow. Grossdeutschland is acceptable (though as a post-colonial nation).
  • We will not unite Japan for you. If we united Japan, it would handily outnumber all of its neighbors in terms of population and resources. Also having several Samurai clans build their own kingdoms via Sengoku Jidai would be lit. Finally, more than one person is going to likely want Japan (unless Japanese settler colonies...). Exceptions can be made for talented and experienced RPers, but generally do not expect this rule to be lifted.
  • We will (probably) not unite Chinese nationalities for you unless one is perhaps an inland one and you have a good application/reason.
  • We are not accepting European "Meijis." Keep in mind that only 1 Meiji exists IRL. European nations are generally already wealthy and powerful on NS. There is really no point/nothing interesting about yet another 1st world European nation. Please keep things interesting. Only exceptions considered may be Slavs or Balkans. If you want to do a Meiji, please consider a non-European nation. Suggested are: Native Americans (South and North America), Indians, and hell even Hawaii.
  • Need nation ideas? Come onto our discord. A list of recommendation nations will be posted below as well.
  • Please limit overseas colonies (in the present day) to a few islands at most. Colonization happened, but it's in the past. That's the point.
Recommendation Nation Concepts:
  • Chinese States - There are a lot of roles here to fill and as a Chinese nation you get to be wealthy, influential (diplomatically and economically) with an advanced professional army. The most important Chinese states are likely to be the Wu (Shanghai, enough said), Hakka (historically colonized, IRL, most of Southeast Asia, could be a major colonial power), Mandarins (less important than IRL by far but still may maintain some Italy-style heritage), and Cantos (Hong Kong, Macau...huge population, cultural influence, etc.) Bottom Line: Want to be a major colonial power? A coastal Chinese nation is your best best.
  • Japan - we know people are gonna want Japan, but please just avoid tropes of 1940s military dictatorship blindly loyal to Emperor, child empresses, or etc. This isn't a recommendation so much as a request.
  • Manchus - abundant coal, iron, and sinicized government. The Manchus have the potential to be a real continental powerhouse/great power. Granted, we don't really want a bunch of warmongering in China in the present day, but the Manchus would likely have a proud and esteemed military history and industry/navy.
  • Mongols/Dzungars - Want to be a big Russia-style state? Why not take to the steppes/Russia. You'd likely be 2nd world, but likely be of former superpower status, and regional/great power at least - in addition to having a considerably large army. Russian military equipment will likely be reserved for a Central Asian Sinified state.
  • Vietnam - interestingly enough, Vietnam is likely to be a heavy hitter. Today Vietnam has a population of 100 million. Imagine that with first world levels of development. Vietnam is likely to be a major political and historical power, with a bridge into the resource rich Southeast Asian mainland. Cambodia, Laos, and maybe even Thailand will likely all be former colonies, and still see much Viet influence. Vietnam also has the beautiful Ao Dai, Pho, etc.
  • Ainu - the Hokkaio and/or Sakhlain Ainu are likely to be small in population and not very historically powerful, but they could take on a role akin to today's Nordic states. They might be very developed, rich, etc. The Sakhalins are oil-rich. You could be a Japanese-influenced first world paradise.
  • European Post-Colonial State - We want Europe to fill roughly the role of today's South Asia. As a European nation, you'd be poor, underdeveloped, and colonized. Why then, would you ever want to play a Euro state? Well how about getting to form any arrangement of borders you like? Want Grossdetuschland? Britain and France? Colonizers don't care about local cultures and neither do you. Additionally, our POD is in 900 AD with huge invasions of Europe by all sorts of invaders...you have substantial freedom to do as you like. If you can explain it we're even willing to accept pagan kingdoms.
  • Native Americans - We are willing to be fairly generous to Native American players... especially ones who want to form modern, advanced, industrialized nations. With the exception of the United States West Coast, there are no real colonial plans for the Native Americans. Granted, you'd face Asian diseases, but there'd be time to recover and catch up with the Sinic east. Want a hyper industrialized Hawaii? Massive industrial Iroquois Confederacy? Aztec Manufacturing Empire? Anything is yours.
  • Africa? I suspect Africa may still be poor...but not necessarily. Given the successes of Islam, lack of European colonization, and some other alternate history changes, a powerful African nation (*coughs* wakanda!) could emerge. Africa should be greatly diverse in terms of development...some very well-off states and a few states like OTL. Eastern Africa is more likely to be colonized and poor than West Africa.
  • Scandinavian Autocracies - we want Scandinavian Oil Barons to rule like Sheikhs of the Middle East. Enough said. Want a Norse Theocracy? Chinese money will flo.
  • Settler Colony. Pretty simple concept; Japanese Australia anybody? Settler colonies will exist in Australia, on US West Coast, and maybe Latin America.
Cultural Changes from IRL to Consider
  • Sports from OTL won't be popular. We'll probably see people playing Cuju develop into something akin to today's association football. Traditional Asian martial arts and dragon boat rowing will be major sports as well. No basketball, baseball, etc.
  • Disney will be supplanted by Studio Ghibli as the major entertainment franchise. Studio Ghbili and anime will dominate the world.
  • All the dreamy British boy-bands will be replaced by hot dreamy kpop bois instead.
  • Historically, Asian countries have been more secularized/follow syncretic forms of religion. Organized religion is unlikely to be a powerful force. Shamans, Buddhist temples, and state traditions/worship should intermix. Also, it'd be nice if you refrain from bringing Christianity to Asia.
  • Hip-hop should be brought to Asia by wealthy/advanced African countries directly, instead of though colonization and such.
  • South China will be dominated by Canto trend-setter hippies and avante-garde. You aren't necessarily required to run your nation this way, but the Cantos will be a major source of edgy avante garde culture and liberalism.
  • Food will consist more of rice-based cakes, fish, and steamed vegetables. Less emphasis on fried foods, cheese, breads, etc. Try to consider this in your national cuisine.
  • Christianity - even Nestorianism - should not exist in East Asia. There are a lot of interesting angles to explore alt history from, but making China Christian is really not one of our goals.
  • No Western style clothing or suits. This should be obvious. It's a bit hard to find pictures of people not in western dress, but we'll try to make do for the sake of the aesthetic and immersion.
  • Philosophy... lots of room here. Since European enlightenment never happens and no America, well, everything is up in the air. For political philosophy, I suppose anybody who wants to specifically explore how merchant power and decline of bureaucracies might result in new ideologies and etc. then you are free to claim these major thinkers as your nation's.
  • General note, your nation cannot be impervious to cultural diffusion of Asian nations/colonizers, even if your nation is one of the few uncolonized ones. That just doesn't make sense. Unless you can practically convince me of a single nation today totally devoid of European cultural influences, this rule stands.
Last edited by Daeseong on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:12 pm, edited 19 times in total.

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ArUmdAUM
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Posts: 23904
Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Tiandi (天地) [MT, RP/Worldbuilding, Signups]

Postby ArUmdAUM » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:58 am

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Founded in 2015, Tiandi has clung on.

Tiandi is a modern-tech, realistic, and closed-world worldbuilding and roleplay community.

For all its fun, most NS RP communities offer much of the same. People are often subject to the same, tired tropes of European royalty named after the RL player, Muslim terrorists, and 18 year-old Japanese anime princesses. Virtually all will feature the same European dominance of the world, which goes unquestioned.

Tiandi offers something different. It is a region where East Asian civilization, rather than Western civilization, came to dominate and shape the rest of the world in its image. It is a region where indigenous American societies were not wiped completely from history due to disease and conquest, but rather survived (albeit against the trauma of East Asian colonization and imperialism).

Tiandi emerged during a time when race captured the American mind--in the backdrop of racially disparate police brutality, the first black US president, and the rise of xenophobic elements all across the West, Tiandi was founded as a way to explore issues of race, religion, and culture in a setting that required much more imagination and thinking than most other regions.

Tiandi's unique history and lore allow for a deep philosophical discussion of the nature of the world and the factors that have shaped it. Are the ways ideology and religion form unique to the culture which birth them, or are they more shaped by material factors? Is industrialization possible without the brutal resource extraction of colonization? How would clothing, music, and symbols of national identity have developed without Western influence?

Here, we create novel narratives about this world in which even little things like the popularity of ice cream must be reexamined and rethought with out-of-the-box thinking. Despite the hostility we have received to our mission and concept, Tiandi has nonetheless been able to flourish.

Today, we proudly:

  • Have our own wiki, now featuring over a hundred articles.
  • Have started and done several RPs.
  • Are led by minorities, allowing for unique perspectives and insights into the way the world works.

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和而不同
Last edited by ArUmdAUM on Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:43 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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ArUmdAUM
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Posts: 23904
Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:02 am

I'm trying to create a new app thread, and I was pretty influenced by Esquarium's design. Still have a lot to go in completing it.

Thoughts on it so far?
Last edited by ArUmdAUM on Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Daeseong
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Founded: Jun 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Daeseong » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:56 am

ArUmdAUM wrote:I'm trying to create a new app thread, and I was pretty influenced by Esquarium's design. Still have a lot to go in completing it.

Thoughts on it so far?

No comments other than gr8

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ArUmdAUM
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23904
Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:34 pm

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Tiandi's map is unique, balanced, and reinforces the region's central concept.

Tiandi's symmetrical map was intentionally made to reinforce the concept of a dominant East Asian civilization. Sinju, the region's East Asia, is centrally located in the upper half of the map. The rest of the world appears to naturally branch out from Sinju, which occupies a position not as the "Far East" or even "East," but rather the "Center," in line with the historic supposition that China, the Middle Kingdom, was the center of the world and the center of civilization.

The region's unique geography and the connectivity of the continents allow not only for the realistic development of historic human migrations routes during the Paleolithic era, but also for the survival of indigenous American civilizations. The region and its predecessor, Lucerna, pioneered the existence of the "cultural map," a map that organizes cultures into a scheme that makes sense rather than randomly placing nations anywhere on a map.

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ArUmdAUM
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Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:00 pm

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Tiandi's unique lore allows for unparalleled worldbuilding.

Tiandi was founded on a unique premise: East Asian civilization, not Western civilization, would shape the world in its image.
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ArUmdAUM
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
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Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:23 am

i actually posted it is there anything i should change

please help contribute too

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=436839
Last edited by ArUmdAUM on Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ArUmdAUM
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23904
Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:43 am

ill also update the op of this thread to reflect new info later
Last edited by ArUmdAUM on Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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