Tiandi Big Discussion Thread

[Sabara]

How and why? China's sudden rise can be attributed greatly to SEZs and outside cooperation, and in Tiandi it appears almost all your close neighbours (and thus world powers) are hostile to your communists. We also don't have a second communist power in the world that the non-Communists needed to work with Qinyue to oppose, like the US and China, and Akitsukuni already became Jeongmi-friendly by the 1950s precisely to oppose Qinyue. In this case, the problems are not on your side - I just see no reason for the non-Communists to ever stop opposing Qinyue, unless(!?) a glasnost/perestroika-type event occurred that showed everyone you were willing to democratise.

Perhaps it would be more realistic to have an economy that grew somewhat similar to the USSR, possibly with a gaige kaifang of your own sometime in the 1990s to 2000s to have economic growth into the modern - definitely not as strong as modern China, but getting there in maybe 15 years, like a hypothetical Soviet Union that did not collapse.

Democratization would be a little far. Qinyue did have a liberalization, sort of like China's, where they opened the first SAZs (I just combined SEZ and SAR ) and liberalized some of their market policies. Said SAZs, like China's SEZs, have contributed greatly to Qinyue's rise, and are continuing to do so since the entire Emerald Delta region is now basically one giant SAZ.

When China really opened up under Deng, the US was less interested in cockblocking the Soviets- they'd already been doing that with Mao and the Soviets were on their way down. They still supported Taiwan and South Korea and Japan- but American companies found that China was a damn cheap place for their factories. I expect something similar would happen in Tiandi, as Jeongmian, Meisaani, and Akitsujin corporations realized how profitable investing in Qinyue could be and their native countries softened their positions against Qinyue somewhat (as the country was liberalizing to some extent, and, though it seems hard to believe, trying to reduce how hardcore they were about the Communist ideology).

Idk. *shrugs* I was thinking SAZs make money for everyone so everyone is ok with it, basically.

Get on chat D:<

[Senkaku]

Democratization would be a little far. Qinyue did have a liberalization, sort of like China's, where they opened the first SAZs (I just combined SEZ and SAR ) and liberalized some of their market policies. Said SAZs, like China's SEZs, have contributed greatly to Qinyue's rise, and are continuing to do so since the entire Emerald Delta region is now basically one giant SAZ.

When China really opened up under Deng, the US was less interested in cockblocking the Soviets- they'd already been doing that with Mao and the Soviets were on their way down. They still supported Taiwan and South Korea and Japan- but American companies found that China was a damn cheap place for their factories. I expect something similar would happen in Tiandi, as Jeongmian, Meisaani, and Akitsujin corporations realized how profitable investing in Qinyue could be and their native countries softened their positions against Qinyue somewhat (as the country was liberalizing to some extent, and, though it seems hard to believe, trying to reduce how hardcore they were about the Communist ideology).

Idk. *shrugs* I was thinking SAZs make money for everyone so everyone is ok with it, basically.

Get on chat D:<

OH MY GOD


WHENEVER I HAVE A COMPUTER NO ONE'S ONE CHAT


WHENEVER I HAVE MY PHONE OR AN IPAD EVERYONE IS


JESUS FUCKING CHRIST AND THE HOLY VIRGIN MARY

[Toishima]

(as the country was liberalizing to some extent, and, though it seems hard to believe, trying to reduce how hardcore they were about the Communist ideology).

This makes sense. Very well.

And also, Akitsukunese. Please. Heh.

[Senkaku]

And also, Akitsukunese. Please. Heh.

?

[Arumdaum]

Thinking we should make own dominant legal system, perhaps based upon traditional Chinese law.

I propose calling it "Ullyeong law." It's basically just the Korean reading of 律令.

random stuff that could help us idk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritsury%C5%8D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Ja ... velopments

Why is everything always a Korean reading? And I think at this point many legal systems would have probably incorporated ideas that IRL we'd consider Western, but that in Tiandi probably would've been invented in the East by philosophers and stuff during the Industrial Revolution and the modernization period.

Also, Arum, I'll make a post regarding your inquiries about Qinyue soon.

once we changed the name of the continents and regions we just had to go full out

mandarin chinese readings would be inconsistenttttt

[Sabara]

Why is everything always a Korean reading? And I think at this point many legal systems would have probably incorporated ideas that IRL we'd consider Western, but that in Tiandi probably would've been invented in the East by philosophers and stuff during the Industrial Revolution and the modernization period.

Also, Arum, I'll make a post regarding your inquiries about Qinyue soon.

once we changed the name of the continents and regions we just had to go full out

mandarin chinese readings would be inconsistenttttt

Well, if much Tiandi is influenced by Confucian-esque doctrines, petty crime shouldn't be widespread.

[Arumdaum]

if anyone knows more about these they could potentially help us in setting up how republics originated in tiandi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanfang_Republic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongsi_federations

[Sabara]

if anyone knows more about these they could potentially help us in setting up how republics originated in tiandi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanfang_Republic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongsi_federations

YESYESYESYES
the guy who suggested the lanfang republic came from guangdong o/

also sun yat sen's from guangdong too, so.... suckas

[Sabara]

I feel like most of Tiandi's modern-day republics should be governed on a somewhat more decentralized system; since the core Confucian idea of family would still stick around to the modern era, heavily influencing our politics.

[Senkaku]

if anyone knows more about these they could potentially help us in setting up how republics originated in tiandi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanfang_Republic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongsi_federations

Seems like the kongsi federations almost emerged as mercantile organizations, it said they were capital-sharing mine unions and stuff? They almost started as shareholder democracies, which would make sense since our first "republic" that I know of was Jeongmian and it started off as an oligarchy.

[Arumdaum]

I feel like most of Tiandi's modern-day republics should be governed on a somewhat more decentralized system; since the core Confucian idea of family would still stick around to the modern era, heavily influencing our politics.

The nation is one big family!

I think that's how they used to do it in the old days...

[Senkaku]

I feel like most of Tiandi's modern-day republics should be governed on a somewhat more decentralized system; since the core Confucian idea of family would still stick around to the modern era, heavily influencing our politics.

The nation is one big family!

I think that's how they used to do it in the old days...

And Chairman Shen is our great family's greatest ancestor who watches over us to eternally guide the Revolution, under the benevolent tutelage of Sima Zian, who commands all the great ancestors who now guard the flame of the proletariat forever in the heavens!

Right guys?

[Victoriala]

The nation is one big family!

I think that's how they used to do it in the old days...

And Chairman Shen is our great family's greatest ancestor who watches over us to eternally guide the Revolution, under the benevolent tutelage of Sima Zian, who commands all the great ancestors who now guard the flame of the proletariat forever in the heavens!

Right guys?

起來！不願做奴隸的人們！
把我們的血肉，
築成我們新的長城！
中華民族到了最危險的時候，
每個人被迫著發出最後的吼聲。
起來！起來！起來！
我們萬眾一心，
冒著敵人的炮火，前進！
冒著敵人的炮火，前進！
前進！前進！進！

[Arumdaum]

And Chairman Shen is our great family's greatest ancestor who watches over us to eternally guide the Revolution, under the benevolent tutelage of Sima Zian, who commands all the great ancestors who now guard the flame of the proletariat forever in the heavens!

Right guys?

起來！不願做奴隸的人們！
把我們的血肉，
築成我們新的長城！
中華民族到了最危險的時候，
每個人被迫著發出最後的吼聲。
起來！起來！起來！
我們萬眾一心，
冒著敵人的炮火，前進！
冒著敵人的炮火，前進！
前進！前進！進！

prc anthem in trad?

tsk tsk

[Victoriala]

起來！不願做奴隸的人們！
把我們的血肉，
築成我們新的長城！
中華民族到了最危險的時候，
每個人被迫著發出最後的吼聲。
起來！起來！起來！
我們萬眾一心，
冒著敵人的炮火，前進！
冒著敵人的炮火，前進！
前進！前進！進！

prc anthem in trad?

tsk tsk

fuck the cops I do what I want

[Victoriala]

>tfw I have an Elon Musk proposing the Imperial Government to expand Hasu Internet to the Moon

[Arumdaum]

I think our calendar should start the year Daqi renamed itself to Tianqi.

Apparently that happened in the first century CE...

Why not the RL 1 CE? That would be the most convenient.

[Zhouran]

>tfw I have an Elon Musk proposing the Imperial Government to expand Hasu Internet to the Moon

An Interplanetary Internet?

The speed of light would limit the speed at which messages would be able to travel in the interplanetary Internet. In this example, it takes light 1.26 seconds to travel from the Earth to the Moon. Due to the vast distances involved, much longer delays may be incurred than in the Earth-bound Internet.

Good luck having a delayed Internet on the Moon

And Chairman Shen is our great family's greatest ancestor who watches over us to eternally guide the Revolution, under the benevolent tutelage of Sima Zian, who commands all the great ancestors who now guard the flame of the proletariat forever in the heavens!

Right guys?

You got me there for a second there

[Victoriala]

>tfw I have an Elon Musk proposing the Imperial Government to expand Hasu Internet to the Moon

An Interplanetary Internet?

The speed of light would limit the speed at which messages would be able to travel in the interplanetary Internet. In this example, it takes light 1.26 seconds to travel from the Earth to the Moon. Due to the vast distances involved, much longer delays may be incurred than in the Earth-bound Internet.

Good luck having a delayed Internet on the Moon

AT LEAST WE STARTED IT

[Arumdaum]

I highly suggest we use a system that is as separated from religions and beliefs as possible. If not, then perhaps the western law system could have been imported and merged with the existing system to create a legal system free of religious influence.

Yeah, I think it should be pretty separated from religion. I think that's how it was in East Asia historically anyway.

Unlike in the West, where secular and religious powers co-existed and fostered a tradition of pluralism, the traditional Chinese legal system, as a tool of the sovereign, has never encountered strong counterparts, and therefore never tolerated the existence of any alien powers and legal rules other than those of the emperor. From a socio-cultural standpoint, however, it is interesting to note that while in the West, individuals have typically been intrinsically seen as linked to a single religious tradition (that is, a strong division traditionally existed between rival denominations, or between Christianity and Judaism), in Chinese culture, people have been able to simultaneously be adherents of Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism, or some combination of these.

In contrast to many other peoples, the Chinese never attributed their laws to a divine lawgiver. The same is true for the rule which governed the whole of life, and which therefore might legitimately be called "laws"; no divine origin is found for li (rules of correct behaviour) either.

And also, Akitsukunese. Please. Heh.

?

you wrote "Akitsujin" instead of "Akitsukunese," lol

once we changed the name of the continents and regions we just had to go full out

mandarin chinese readings would be inconsistenttttt

Well, if much Tiandi is influenced by Confucian-esque doctrines, petty crime shouldn't be widespread.

Is Confucianism the reason why East Asia has low crime rates?.. hrm hrm hrm

[Victoriala]

I highly suggest we use a system that is as separated from religions and beliefs as possible. If not, then perhaps the western law system could have been imported and merged with the existing system to create a legal system free of religious influence.

Yeah, I think it should be pretty separated from religion. I think that's how it was in East Asia historically anyway.

Unlike in the West, where secular and religious powers co-existed and fostered a tradition of pluralism, the traditional Chinese legal system, as a tool of the sovereign, has never encountered strong counterparts, and therefore never tolerated the existence of any alien powers and legal rules other than those of the emperor. From a socio-cultural standpoint, however, it is interesting to note that while in the West, individuals have typically been intrinsically seen as linked to a single religious tradition (that is, a strong division traditionally existed between rival denominations, or between Christianity and Judaism), in Chinese culture, people have been able to simultaneously be adherents of Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism, or some combination of these.

In contrast to many other peoples, the Chinese never attributed their laws to a divine lawgiver. The same is true for the rule which governed the whole of life, and which therefore might legitimately be called "laws"; no divine origin is found for li (rules of correct behaviour) either.

?

you wrote "Akitsujin" instead of "Akitsukunese," lol

Well, if much Tiandi is influenced by Confucian-esque doctrines, petty crime shouldn't be widespread.

Is Confucianism the reason why East Asia has low crime rates?.. hrm hrm hrm

With Legalist elements to boot.

The "Fuck you and your opinion I'm the King" Legalism.

[Arumdaum]

His economy could be due to his massive population working for slave-wages, like RL China?

I'm a bit confused about Qinyue's status.

Qinyue is unlike China in that Qinyue would have historically been industrialized. Would its infrastructure and so on have been greatly destroyed during the Eulhae War and its revolution, with chronic mismanagement of the economy and so on ensuring that it remained screwed up for a while?

Qinyue is currently the world's third largest economy, and at least now should be rather well-integrated into the global economy. However, I'd really like to know more about the historical state of its economy, at least following the Eulhae War.

I'd just like to say Qinyue didn't crash the world economy because unlike the USSR it has not collapsed. That's the only reason. If Qinyue did a USSR-style implosion everyone would lose a lot of money, because as you say Qinyue is the world's third-largest economy, is growing rapidly, and is hooked in to global trade and commerce and finance.

Qinyue was ravaged in the Eulhae War, obviously (air raids and extensive land fighting, plus a nuclear strike), but a lot of the damage came in the Glorious Revolution. When it became clear the Li were losing they basically left nothing for the Communists to take. The Communists embarked on a crash program to rebuild the country's industrial might, but it went slowly and was only probably finished in the '80s due to the sheer scale of the project they were embarking on (which was to rebuild an utterly destroyed nation with no outside aid and indeed, outside hostility, while simultaneously trying to project their power around the globe and build a powerful military and space program). After that, mismanagement and corruption started to set in, holding things back further, especially when the first Special Administrative Zones started being set up. Despite all this, modern Qinyue is now achieving growth rates comparable to RL China.

I think that Qinyue would be more comparable to the Soviet Union rather than China.

Qinyue was one of the colonial powers and a major industrial power during the Eulhae War. China had been in decline for the past nearly two centuries before it economically liberalized, with famines, rebellions, civil wars, foreign incursions, unequal treaties designed to prevent China from industrializing, and little industry.

The average person makes nearly 50% more than the average person in China, although based upon Qinyue's GDP (PPP) per capita, living costs are much higher (though it would still feel like you're making more). It would be relatively expensive, at least nowadays, for foreign firms to hire workers in Qinyue.

In addition to being seen as a way to create a more equal society, communism was seen as a shortcut to modernity for developing and post-colonial nations in Asia, probably in part due to the great industrial advances that had been made in the Soviet Union.

Assuming that the first "communist" nation is Qinyue, I think there would also be greater pressure upon Qinyue to remain pure to ideology, unlike the largely nationalistically-driven communism that was present in China, North Korea, and Vietnam, where leaders were probably more interested in empowering their nations and people rather than actual communism.

Having been a major industrial power, Qinyue should have had a relatively easy time rebuilding its society like in Europe and Japan after WWII due to the retention of its human capital - although buildings and infrastructure would be heavily devastated during Eulhae and the Glorious Revolution, the plans for its buildings, its architects, its engineers, its doctors, its scientists, and so on would still have remained after both events. I don't really think going Pol Pot would have worked, considering that the educated class would include a considerably higher percentage of the population in Qinyue compared to Cambodia, and also considering that they wouldn't be seen as signs of what would here be "Eastern" and stuff, as Qinyue is part of Sinju and one of the former imperial powers rather than one of the victims.

[Arumdaum]

The above being said, I've been having some interest in creating a large, Tigrinya nation in Miju. I was thinking a former colony of Jeongmi, perhaps serving a similar role to India, although I don't plan on the population being anywhere near as large, or as diverse.

I was thinking that communists could have taken power following independence. It may either continually have aligned with Qinyue, or perhaps have strayed from it due to Qinyue simply wanting to make it a satellite state, with the nation viewing Qinyue as merely another imperialist nation.

It would have been a former great empire and relatively homogeneous.

What does everyone else think?

[Sebtopiaris]

omg how did I (Kibetsu) not see this?

[Arumdaum]

omg how did I (Kibetsu) not see this?

cuz u havent been comin on chat bruh