Open Letter From the Mentor Team, Re: Security Council

[Ikania]

I'll help defend Haven from this outrage as well.

Same.

Moi aussi.

[Feazanthia]

To be clear - the ideal situation is that this all goes away, and safeguards are put in place to keep such foolishness from happening again. We do not want chaos. We want to return to our lives and put this all behind us.

[Delmonte]

I propose that someone start an RP-Region Defender Alliance, to keep shat like this fom coming to fruition.

As someone who started a group previously to defend founderless RPing regions that saw some success, I'd be more than happy to direct these efforts. I've seen raids first-hand and I know how many people it would take to stop them. If someone thinks they're a better candidate, that's also fine.

[Dorlania]

Sign me up for this motion of Solidarity.

[Zarkenis Ultima]

I'll sign this. I don't want to see this happen and set a precedent.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

I propose that someone start an RP-Region Defender Alliance, to keep shat like this fom coming to fruition.

We might as well. Passwords are useless at this point.

Or could be, very soon.

[Nationstatelandsville]

For what it's worth, I think - personally - that this is a complete failure of the judgment of our moderators and, really, just stupid.

The RP community is, evidently, quite large; I mean, were we not just given a new forum specifically because we outgrew Forum 7? Did we already forget that?

So, perhaps, it is time notto ignore us because we do not represent a built-in function of the game, but to acknowledge an unintended development of the site. Because this is way it is; either you acknowledge us and help protect our rights in this situation by doing nothing, or you watch a large user-base leave.

Either you welcome us or don't. Thus far, I've had no reason to think you didn't, but perhaps I was wrong.

[Segland]

I definitely support this. Pretty much all I've done on NS for the past 5 years is roleplay, except for a short excursion into defending with the UDL. I feel that anytime an RPing region is taken by raiders, it's not only annoying but also hurtful to the region's normal residents. Raiders have PLENTY of other regions to target that are actually involved in the gameplay aspect of NationStates.

So please, PLEASE don't allow this liberation to go through. Not only would it set a terrifying precedent for raiders, it would also interrupt a region with a long and distinguished history of roleplaying without outside interference.

If this liberation somehow succeeded, I would be more than glad to participate in defender efforts to expel the raiders. I have some past experience with defending.

[Lavan Tiri]

I propose that someone start an RP-Region Defender Alliance, to keep shat like this fom coming to fruition.

We might as well. Passwords are useless at this point.

If Mall his his way, the Mods will warn and ban every member of a passworded region. Hyberbole: yes. This thread, and the reason for it, is why [violet] allowed discussion is the Moderation forum.

[Zeinbrad]

I fully support this.

[Kylarnatia]

To be clear - the ideal situation is that this all goes away, and safeguards are put in place to keep such foolishness from happening again. We do not want chaos. We want to return to our lives and put this all behind us.

Agreed.

I may be getting a little excited, but my only true intent is to not let the Moderators bury this without some concessions being made and getting our side heard with a fair ear. As for my personal opinions on the matter - they can talk with me directly themselves if it upsets them so.

After all, I'm quite the politician.

[Alduinium]

You have my full support.

[Lavan Tiri]

I propose that someone start an RP-Region Defender Alliance, to keep shat like this fom coming to fruition.

As someone who started a group previously to defend founderless RPing regions that saw some success, I'd be more than happy to direct these efforts. I've seen raids first-hand and I know how many people it would take to stop them. If someone thinks they're a better candidate, that's also fine.

I have some experience with RnD gaming, I could help.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

I definitely support this. Pretty much all I've done on NS for the past 5 years is roleplay, except for a short excursion into defending with the UDL. I feel that anytime an RPing region is taken by raiders, it's not only annoying but also hurtful to the region's normal residents. Raiders have PLENTY of other regions to target that are actually involved in the gameplay aspect of NationStates.

So please, PLEASE don't allow this liberation to go through. Not only would it set a terrifying precedent for raiders, it would also interrupt a region with a long and distinguished history of roleplaying without outside interference.

If this liberation somehow succeeded, I would be more than glad to participate in defender efforts to expel the raiders. I have some past experience with defending.

Certain raiding parties have been known to vandalize RP regions.

[Gristol-Serkonos]

As someone who started a group previously to defend founderless RPing regions that saw some success, I'd be more than happy to direct these efforts. I've seen raids first-hand and I know how many people it would take to stop them. If someone thinks they're a better candidate, that's also fine.

I have some experience with RnD gaming, I could help.

With the way this resolution is going, I doubt we would see it pass the voting stage.

[El Fiji Grande]

I keep going back and forth. In principle, I am completely against the SC Haven proposal, but in enforcement and from an admin perspective, I disagree with the notion that there is an easy fix to this problem.

[Delmonte]

I have some experience with RnD gaming, I could help.

With the way this resolution is going, I doubt we would see it pass the voting stage.

Yes, but this will continue to a be a problem; they've demonstrated that. We should be prepared on all fronts. We don't actually need to defend, we just need to make sure we aren't low-hanging fruit. And a decent-sized militia that just shuffles WA puppets around and spends about a minute a week on their WA account will suffice.

[Altito Asmoro]

The People's Republic of Altito Asmoro hereby fully support the declaration of the Solidarity.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

The one thing that strikes me more than anything else is that I can't quite puzzle out why we're being treated like second-class citizens here. Why are the Moderators being so pigheaded about this?

Think about it - maybe R/D was here first, but RPing appears to me to be just as prominent a feature of the site as R/D is now. We're orderly, for the most part, and we have Mentors so that we can police ourselves. We stay on the site for the most part, so we stare at ads that go directly into NS' coffers. We keep to ourselves - what we do doesn't result in anybody's stuff getting trashed.

None of that applies to R/D-ers. They constantly fuck with each other, trolling and flaming being omnipresent. They have offsite forums, so they're practically disconnected from NationStates a great deal of the time. They require a massive amount of management and policing, both through Moderation (have you seen the discourse on the Gameplay forum? It's like Montezuma's Revenge in text form) and through GHRs.

So why do we get fucked over and ignored?

[Burlington-Sverige]

I love how the mods are vehemently defending Mall. Maybe if someone pointed out his conflict of interest the situation would be different...

To be fair, it's expected. Part of being a strong, unified moderator team is always standing in support of your fellow moderators, unless they literally, I don't know, blow something up. Since (s)he hasn't done that, there's no reason to just abandon a fellow moderator.

That being said, I'm signing on the dotted line. Because it's ridiculous not to.

<Insert seal of approval here>

[Lavan Tiri]

The one thing that strikes me more than anything else is that I can't quite puzzle out why we're being treated like second-class citizens here. Why are the Moderators being so pigheaded about this?

Think about it - maybe R/D was here first, but RPing appears to me to be just as prominent a feature of the site as R/D is now. We're orderly, for the most part, and we have Mentors so that we can police ourselves. We stay on the site for the most part, so we stare at ads that go directly into NS' coffers. We keep to ourselves - what we do doesn't result in anybody's stuff getting trashed.

None of that applies to R/D-ers. They constantly fuck with each other, trolling and flaming being omnipresent. They have offsite forums, so they're practically disconnected from NationStates a great deal of the time. They require a massive amount of management and policing, both through Moderation (have you seen the discourse on the Gameplay forum? It's like Montezuma's Revenge in text form) and through GHRs.

So why do we get fucked over and ignored?

Because we ( i consider myself both an RPer and a defender), do not use the gameplay mechanism that is RnD gaming, so we're seen as second class.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Because we ( i consider myself both an RPer and a defender), do not use the gameplay mechanism that is RnD gaming, so we're seen as second class.

Well, yeah, obviously. I'm asking WHY that is, though, and what the exact connection is.
Are any mods actual RPers, by the way? Have any mods ever come up that way? Or is it all NSGers and R/Ders?

[Nationstatelandsville]

The one thing that strikes me more than anything else is that I can't quite puzzle out why we're being treated like second-class citizens here. Why are the Moderators being so pigheaded about this?

Think about it - maybe R/D was here first, but RPing appears to me to be just as prominent a feature of the site as R/D is now. We're orderly, for the most part, and we have Mentors so that we can police ourselves. We stay on the site for the most part, so we stare at ads that go directly into NS' coffers. We keep to ourselves - what we do doesn't result in anybody's stuff getting trashed.

None of that applies to R/D-ers. They constantly fuck with each other, trolling and flaming being omnipresent. They have offsite forums, so they're practically disconnected from NationStates a great deal of the time. They require a massive amount of management and policing, both through Moderation (have you seen the discourse on the Gameplay forum? It's like Montezuma's Revenge in text form) and through GHRs.

So why do we get fucked over and ignored?

It is fully within the site's rights to choose one group over another.

It is thus fully within our rights to leave.

[Segland]

I definitely support this. Pretty much all I've done on NS for the past 5 years is roleplay, except for a short excursion into defending with the UDL. I feel that anytime an RPing region is taken by raiders, it's not only annoying but also hurtful to the region's normal residents. Raiders have PLENTY of other regions to target that are actually involved in the gameplay aspect of NationStates.

So please, PLEASE don't allow this liberation to go through. Not only would it set a terrifying precedent for raiders, it would also interrupt a region with a long and distinguished history of roleplaying without outside interference.

If this liberation somehow succeeded, I would be more than glad to participate in defender efforts to expel the raiders. I have some past experience with defending.

Certain raiding parties have been known to vandalize RP regions.

Exactly -- that's why I'm so utterly against the notion of forcibly removing Haven's password.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

The one thing that strikes me more than anything else is that I can't quite puzzle out why we're being treated like second-class citizens here. Why are the Moderators being so pigheaded about this?

Think about it - maybe R/D was here first, but RPing appears to me to be just as prominent a feature of the site as R/D is now. We're orderly, for the most part, and we have Mentors so that we can police ourselves. We stay on the site for the most part, so we stare at ads that go directly into NS' coffers. We keep to ourselves - what we do doesn't result in anybody's stuff getting trashed.

None of that applies to R/D-ers. They constantly fuck with each other, trolling and flaming being omnipresent. They have offsite forums, so they're practically disconnected from NationStates a great deal of the time. They require a massive amount of management and policing, both through Moderation (have you seen the discourse on the Gameplay forum? It's like Montezuma's Revenge in text form) and through GHRs.

So why do we get fucked over and ignored?

It is fully within the site's rights to choose one group over another.

It is thus fully within our rights to leave.

Indeed it is.