Open Letter From the Mentor Team, Re: Security Council

[The Leningrad Union]

I would also like to point out that making nasty posts like the one made about me is the stuff that makes people commit suicide, not their region getting raided.

[Northern Sunrise Islands]

It's also worth noting that the second such a liberation where to pass, if it was ever to, every defender in the game would immediatly flock to the region and endorse the native delegate, making raiding impractical and or impossible.

Actually, sir. That's not really impossible with a bit of tactics. Sure it'll take longer, but still not impossible. Not that I'm not saying it's hard, but you guys could come up with a plan if even I could come up with said plan and I'm just a Sports RPer.

[Bentus]

Because it's a bad analogy, i may have overreacted a bit but its still a frankly terrible analogy.

Could you give us a better one that gets the point across?

[Hobbesistan]

Because it's a bad analogy, i may have overreacted a bit but its still a frankly terrible analogy.

Could you give us a better one that gets the point across?

Guy looses interest in NS and stops playing?

Looses internet access?

I don't think you need a analogy, people go inactive and founders CTE, that's a fact you don't really need a analogy to get across.

[Evil Wolf]

Ok, so I get your anger with regards to trying to get Mall to resign - fair enough. How about the issue of RP regions being vulnerable to R/D? Would you be willing for some new tool to be introduced to NS to make it more difficult (not necessarily impossible) to raid certain regions

The question I've been asking for a while is this: What makes Role Play so special that they need hand-crafted invasion rules and mechanics that apply to their regions and their regions only? Why are they the only ones who are entitled to make such demands and not, say, the entire rest of Nationstates?

Imo the password system can be exploited, and is.

No, it isn't being exploited, it only has the potential to be, and it's a long shot at that.

When Liberate Haven reaches query, passes by vote, and is then invaded, you then have the right to say the system is actively being exploited by raiders to raid regions. Until that happens, you can make no such claim.

[Kylarnatia]

...and he was meant to know that, because?

I don't think he deliberately meant to cause any offence by it, so I don't see why you're having to take it so personally.

Because it's a bad analogy, i may have overreacted a bit but its still a frankly terrible analogy.

Just because it's a bad analogy and serves up bad memories for you doesn't mean you have to bite a guys head off for it. You're typing all of this, remember. You can take a minute to step back and think "Is that really a good response?"

I understand your pain on the subject - I've been in plenty of car accidents throughout my time - but this was merely a coincidence.

[Hobbesistan]

Because it's a bad analogy, i may have overreacted a bit but its still a frankly terrible analogy.

Just because it's a bad analogy and serves up bad memories for you doesn't mean you have to bite a guys head off for it. You're typing all of this, remember. You can take a minute to step back and think "Is that really a good response?"

I understand your pain on the subject - I've been in plenty of car accidents throughout my time - but this was merely a coincidence.

Because it's still a terrible analogy, lol.

[Bentus]

Guy looses interest in NS and stops playing?

Looses internet access?

I don't think you need a analogy, people go inactive and founders CTE, that's a fact you don't really need a analogy to get across.

Analogies help make arguments more persuasive and convey ideas. Given that this one's come up quite often, I'd say something to try and help get the point across couldn't hurt.

Either way - you get the idea.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Mate, that's what we're saying. It started off as an accident (maybe 'glitch' was too strong a word) but was kept because it was fun for a community. Hence, it's a part of NS now. But it is just PART. Just like RP, the WA and the rest. Nobody should be forced into it without their consent just to gain access to the rest.

So starting a petition to demote a mod for playing the game is how you plan on accomplishing this?

I'm looking at you, II mentors.

I don't agree that mall should resign, but I do personally pledge my support for the basic idea of this.

That R?D needs to fend for itself, and stay away from RP regions....

its not impossible, and if R/D can't play without the fear of regions opting out and all that...then guess what...it dies....

Its like a free market....kinda wonder if there are any capitalist raiders...

Anyways, if it can't thrive with an opt out or whatever, or even extra security measures, then it needs to die, old yeller style....

"I can't wait to go home and see how my region is doing!"

:Gets into a Car Accident and dies:

Whelp....thats one down...Mall?

Well passwords are gone too as a safety measure...theoretically...

I wonder if this issue will rise up more often as RP regions move to fight against this shit...

The Mods and all that would have to do something eventually.

For the record, I was in a car accident 2 months ago the day my Commendation went to vote, that's a really, really, really, bad anology and i'm frankly pissed off by it, spending a week+ in hospital and having your car totaled isnt fun.

And I am a genie how?

And you know...I hate to say this...and I hope you are feelign better but....

It is possible you could have died...

My point wasn't to make fun of the issue, I was being serious...

If you get into a car accident and die...your region is fucked...

If you are in a bank and its robbed, and they use you as an example to the Cops that they are not to be fucked with, you die...

You sick, you die

You age, you die...

Death is a thing, so is life off the computer...

People have kids, I have seen this before...

Sometimes people move, or start families, or jobs overwhelm them.

Founders alone are not enough, or passwords...

Also you have my sincerest hopes that you are alright, I really hope it wasn't as bad as it could have been, if you need a hug or anything, I'm here its really unfortunate that it happened to you.

...I don't care about the car, but I do hope you are okay.

:Hug:

[Hobbesistan]

Guy looses interest in NS and stops playing?

Looses internet access?

I don't think you need a analogy, people go inactive and founders CTE, that's a fact you don't really need a analogy to get across.

Analogies help make arguments more persuasive and convey ideas. Given that this one's come up quite often, I'd say something to try and help get the point across couldn't hurt.

Either way - you get the idea.

The people your trying to get the point accross to - GPers, have a idea of founders CTEing and ecetera.

My bottem line opinion is: Dick move to propose it, but a special provision against liberating to raid, removing the liberation alltogether which will backfire for RPers, and demoting mall are all not needed.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

...and he was meant to know that, because?

I don't think he deliberately meant to cause any offence by it, so I don't see why you're having to take it so personally.

Because it's a bad analogy, i may have overreacted a bit but its still a frankly terrible analogy.

It's not an analogy, its an example.

[Hobbesistan]

I also need to re-iterate not to take 'flood the thread with GPers' seriously, was kind of heated at that point in the debate and I apologize if it tensed the conversation further.

[Mekhet]

Just to point out, RPers don't need NS to RP, and if they RP using a nation they don't need a region since they have the forum. Gameplayers and Military Gameplayers do need NS though.

[Urmanian]

The question I've been asking for a while is this: What makes Role Play so special that they need hand-crafted invasion rules and mechanics that apply to their regions and their regions only? Why are they the only ones who are entitled to make such demands and not, say, the entire rest of Nationstates?

That's silly. If the mechanics to opt out of gameplay are going to be implemented, they could be applied to any region that wants out of Gameplay. The RPers are just the largest and most negatively affected by raiding demographic, that's why they're the ones most actively campaigning for these changes.

[Northrop-Grumman]

Ok, so I get your anger with regards to trying to get Mall to resign - fair enough. How about the issue of RP regions being vulnerable to R/D? Would you be willing for some new tool to be introduced to NS to make it more difficult (not necessarily impossible) to raid certain regions

The question I've been asking for a while is this: What makes Role Play so special that they need hand-crafted invasion rules and mechanics that apply to their regions and their regions only? Why are they the only ones who are entitled to make such demands and not, say, the entire rest of Nationstates?

I don't think I've seen anyone yet that has outright suggested that it shouldn't apply to other regions like Sports, General, and so on. It's more, since we're in an RP forum right now, that's what people would think of first. Just like if this thread was in NSG, people would be referring Generalite regions. It's basically a shorthand and people are speaking from their point of view. We've had a few Generalites pop up in here talking about their regions, so its more like everyone's supporting their cause kind of deal. I think we realize that we wouldn't leave WA, NSG, Sports, and anyone else out to dry. I think people are reading a little too into it.

[New Babylonia]

Just to point out, RPers don't need NS to RP, and if they RP using a nation they don't need a region since they have the forum. Gameplayers and Military Gameplayers do need NS though.

No, just, no.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Just to point out, RPers don't need NS to RP, and if they RP using a nation they don't need a region since they have the forum. Gameplayers and Military Gameplayers do need NS though.

Point, and its a good one imo.

I personally think the game side sucks for the most part, I don't understand why there needs to be a region.

I disagree with the RP aspect...

But about the regions I don't understand that part....

I mean I'll fight for their right to have a safe region but why they are not forum side is beyond me.

[Corrian]

While I'm generally leaning towards most of the peoples opinions on here, I still feel like there's a lot of overreacting going on here related to this whole situation. At the moment I feel like calling for Mall's "Resignation" may be going too far, but at the same time I'm agreeing with this letter and whatnot. And getting something from Mallorea would also be nice. Like, I dunno, an apology for causing all this mayhem if it wasn't intended in the first place, and if it was intended, then I dunno..Maybe there's a good reason for us to think that he's not "Keeping the peace" very well. But at least an apology would be nice for causing all these problems, not only for the people, but the moderators as well, would be nice. But so far I still haven't seen a single noteworthy thing from him, other then still defending "Liberate Haven"...

So yeah, lots of overreacting but still leaning towards supporting the people against Liberate Haven, which, as has been clearly shown and stated countless times, is pretty obviously NOT going to pass because of all the people against it at the moment. So that leads back to me and the overreacting going on, where there's many people who seem to automatically assume it has passed or is going to pass when this outrage makes it pretty obvious that the possibilities of it doing so is pretty much next to nothing...

[Hardened Pyrokinetics]

I wish to be signed the fuck up on this. I've never been interested in the R/D shenanigans, and would rather not have their shit forced upon me, particularly with how little I partake in regional occurrences as-is.

[Bezombia]

Just to point out, RPers don't need NS to RP, and if they RP using a nation they don't need a region since they have the forum. Gameplayers and Military Gameplayers do need NS though.

Actually that's not true at all. GPers could just use Cybernations (in terms of gameplay it's mostly the same).

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Ok, so I get your anger with regards to trying to get Mall to resign - fair enough. How about the issue of RP regions being vulnerable to R/D? Would you be willing for some new tool to be introduced to NS to make it more difficult (not necessarily impossible) to raid certain regions

The question I've been asking for a while is this: What makes Role Play so special that they need hand-crafted invasion rules and mechanics that apply to their regions and their regions only? Why are they the only ones who are entitled to make such demands and not, say, the entire rest of Nationstates?

Imo the password system can be exploited, and is.

No, it isn't being exploited, it only has the potential to be, and it's a long shot at that.

When Liberate Haven reaches query, passes by vote, and is then invaded, you then have the right to say the system is actively being exploited by raiders to raid regions. Until that happens, you can make no such claim.

School regions can't be invade iirc, there..right there...thats enough proof something can be done...

Really...there is no reason to force people to play your game...they're are more than enough who wouldn't mind...

[Old Tyrannia]

Just to point out, RPers don't need NS to RP, and if they RP using a nation they don't need a region since they have the forum. Gameplayers and Military Gameplayers do need NS though.

That's true, but regions often play an important role for RPing communities. Many RPers build their nations' backstories around their regions and cooperate to create extensive shared histories. Regions aren't meaningless to RPers, and while Gameplayers may need regions to play their game, they don't need our regions.

[New Babylonia]

Just to point out, RPers don't need NS to RP, and if they RP using a nation they don't need a region since they have the forum. Gameplayers and Military Gameplayers do need NS though.

That's true, but regions often play an important role for RPing communities. Many RPers build their nations' backstories around their regions and cooperate to create extensive shared histories. Regions aren't meaningless to RPers, and while Gameplayers may need regions to play their game, they don't need our regions.

There we go.

[Nierr]

Just to point out, RPers don't need NS to RP, and if they RP using a nation they don't need a region since they have the forum. Gameplayers and Military Gameplayers do need NS though.

Actually that's not true at all. GPers could just use Cybernations (in terms of gameplay it's mostly the same).

RPers could just use insertwritingsitehere.

See how that argument gets turned around?

[Bezombia]

Actually that's not true at all. GPers could just use Cybernations (in terms of gameplay it's mostly the same).

RPers could just use insertwritingsitehere.

See how that argument gets turned around?

I agree. GPers shouldn't have to use Cybernations, just like RPers shouldn't have to go somewhere else.